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Compostela Craziness!

Okay folks, I posed the ID yes or no question to management today. Here is the explanation...

Presently, presentation of a government-issued ID document is not mandatory. However, it is invoked by Pilgrim Office staff and volunteers under the following situations:

1. You get to the counter with your credential and failed to write your name in the space provided in the inside front cover. At that point, it is easier and faster for the person behind the desk to ask for a formal ID so they can translate your name to Latin. It wastes time to have you write in your name at that point. This slows the process down.

2. You DID fill in your name in the credential, but it is illegible to the person behind the counter. Same dynamic applies as for #1.

3. Your given (first) name is so "unique" as to defy translation to Latin. To try to do do this, the person behind the desk will ask for a formal ID to try to reconcile the matter.

4. Fraud is suspected. There are frequent cases of a group of pilgrims arriving where one or more group members are not present.

The policy is VERY CLEAR; one live person + one valid credential = one Compostela. You MUST be present to answer the questions put to you or to your group to claim the Compostela. No one can obtain a Compostela for an absent person...PERIOD.

In this scenario the group "leader" is told of this condition. Moments later the "missing" pilgrim arrives, as if by magic, claiming they are the person listed in the credential. The person behind the counter will ask for a formal ID document to connect the person, to the name, to the credential.

This happens almost daily. There are pilgrims out there who actually think the Pilgrim Office staff have never dealt with these issues before. Seriously!?

All said, I was told that there is an ongoing discussion to mandate a government issued photo ID in all cases to ensure that all persons claiming a Compostela are the person named in the credential. This is intended to nip in the bud the group fraud and also the emerging, nascent pay for a surrogate "professional" pilgrim to walk a camino for you. No answer on that yet.

My advice is to have ID available and ready to proffer if asked. Also DO complete the inside front cover information LEGIBLY. If in doubt PRINT THE INFORMATION.

I hope this helps.
 
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t2andreo said:
The policy is VERY CLEAR; one live person + one valid credential = one Compostela. You MUST be present to answer the questions put to you or to your group to claim the Compostela. No one can obtain a Compostela for an absent person...PERIOD.
Click to expand...
Hi, Tom,
there is an exception to this. It IS possible to have the Compostela given to another person: You can ask the Office to add on "In vicario pro" + name on the Compostela: So your own name in Latin is written on the place for the name, put then have it written on the Compostela: "In vicario pro NN" (meaning "On behalf of NN"). This means I have walked in his place.

I did it on one Camino, for a murder victim (lived in Norway) who was catholic, and had the Compostela sent to his (catholic) mother in South America. It is now somewhere in the Amazon jungle by his urn.

Of course I had to explain to the staff member why i needed this. They were very willing and understanding.
 
@t2andreo ,

Thank you for your investigative work!

I think reason 1, 2 & 3 are a bit ... iffy. How much longer does it take to wrote one's name vs digging out one's wallet?

Avoiding fraud I can see. Although I have also seen commercial tour organisers (bus tour type of thing) hand out Compostelas during mass to their clients.

But back to the person who got this conversation going, if ID can be asked or else you will be refused a Compostela, this should be written in the Credencial, website, on a large poster as one walks onto the Pilgrim Office grounds and the security guard who lets you in after making sure you have your credencial should also ask if one has brought ID. Much less frustrating to walk the 5 minutes back to your hotel then than after queuing.

Also, any kind of photo ID with name and photo should do the job for avoid fraud, not just a passport or "carnet".

Thank you for being our voice and ears at the PO! You have earned a large Estrella!
 
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Please don't let this thread give you any doubts!

Doubt your gear, your backpack, your shoes, all the usual things.

Don't doubt the way.

100 km or 1000 km you'll get out what you put into it.

Enjoy your Camino!

Frank
 
Anemone del Camino said:
I think reason 1, 2 & 3 are a bit ... iffy. How much longer does it take to wrote one's name vs digging out one's wallet?
Click to expand...
It's fairly simple, different countries have different ways of writing and sometimes it is difficult to make out the names. Some nationalities put surname first e.g. French and sometimes Italians. Imagine trying to read Korean or Japanese names, or even Bulgarian. It is a lot quicker to ask for ID than to try communicating in a foreign language. In my experience there was an Irish lady who wrote her name in Irish and was quite bolshy when asked for her passport. The staff in the Pilgrim's Office are trying to provide a great service as quickly as possible, and dealing with different nationalities and languages, as a pilgrim you are very tired but, often, so are they, just relax and go with the spirit of the camino, you have had a wonderful but hard walk, the credencial proves that, queuing for a Compostella is just another thing you want to do
 

To add to this, such a pilgrimage can be done for a deceased person or for a person that is alive, but too ill/handicapped to walk him/herself. Buen Camino, SY
 
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Peter:

You are correct, but it is not actually an exception to the rule. I also had this annotated on my Compostela this past May. I walked from Lisbon and dedicated my Camino to my recently deceased father.

However the "Vicare Pro" annotation indicates that the live person who actually walked the Camino, did so on behalf of (on in place of) another, deceased person.

According to the rules as specified by the Cathedral/Church, only a live person can actually accomplish a Camino and obtain a Compostela. This comports with the standing policy I mentioned earlier today. Adding the "Vicare Pro" annotation merely indicates that the live pilgrim earning the Compostela desired to dedicate their effort to the memory and spiritual benefit of the deceased person.

This said, I am unaware of a policy that permits issuing a Compostela to one person, for another person who may be too infirm to actually make the effort. The only exception I am aware of is for a deceased person. This much is on the Cathedral / Pilgrim Office web site.

Once this threshold is breached, we are on the slippery slope of seeing professional pilgrims doing a camino for payment by another. This was a problem in the Middle Ages too.

Every day there is at least one surviving widow or widower, or a child, who arrives with two, duly stamped pilgrim credentials. One was maintained in the name of the deceased spouse/parent.

We have to charitably explain that we can apply the Cathedral stamp to the credential, but that it is not possible to award a Compostela to a deceased person as they did not personally make the effort. We then always offer the Vicare Pro option, which is always accepted.

Only a live person can be awarded a Compostela, but that document and effort can be ascribed to the spiritual benefit of a deceased person.

I hope this helps.
 
Also, handing back and asking the pilgrim to fill it in, making sure they have a pen, and then receiving the filled in credential back to start the process again takes an average 30 seconds. It can take far more time. This assumes the pilgrim is paying attention and is not on their mobile phone...

Extrapolate that 30 seconds to even 10 percent of arriving pilgrims, and I can prove this alone will back the line up down into the garden. On a 2,000 pilgrim day, 30 seconds x 200 pilgrims = 100 minutes, or one hour and forty minutes additional wasted time spent waiting over the length of the day. Depending on how the clueless pilgrims are distributed, it could clog the entire process.

I love what I do and I do believe it "gives back" to the Camino. I am committed to the Camino and this office / process.

I have been there and done that. Even now, when I arrive from my Camino's, I wait in the queue. I never assume privilege or try to avoid waiting my turn. But, when I step up to the counter, my credential is in my hand, along with my national passport. I focus on the process at hand.

Maybe I take the entire thing far too seriously. But that is how I was wired. No job is finished until the paperwork is done. In our context, that includes the documentation process at the Pilgrim Office.

I hope this helps.
 
Why not have a volunteer whose job it is to make sure all the paper work is in order before people get to the desk? Like they do in airports. They carry pens, clipbaords, check the credenciales, see if an id will be necessary. With the size of the queue in high season there is plenty of time for someone to do that.
 
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t2andreo said:
... This said, I am unaware of a policy that permits issuing a Compostela to one person, for another person who may be too infirm to actually make the effort. ...
Click to expand...

I am sure my information is correct and I personally think it is quite an important option. I have at least one dear RC friend that is very devoted to the pilgrimage but can't walk it anymore ... BC SY
 
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2024 edition: The Brierley Camino Frances Guide
The first edition came out in 2003 and has become the go-to-guide for many pilgrims over the years. It is shipping with a Pilgrim Passport (Credential) from the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela.

I believe you that's in PO regulations but I was issued a "Vicare pro" Compostela few years ago for a person who was still alive at the time (sadly he died couple of months ago) but terminally ill with cancer. And I told that to the volunteer. No problem. I was also surprised of the cheerfulness because I didn't walk Frances and three volunteers gathered at the counter to hear my short story about my Camino Combo after I was asked about it
 
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KinkyOne said:
I was also surprised of the cheerfulness because I didn't walk Frances and three volunteers gathered at the counter to hear my short story about my Camino Combo after I was asked about it
Click to expand...
Now we know why the line is so long: pilgrims distracting volunteers with their stories.
 
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Anemone del Camino said:
Now we know why the line is so long: pilgrims distracting volunteers with their stories.
Click to expand...

Before I was given my first Compostela I had a 15 or 20 minute conversation/interview/interrogation with someone from the Cathedral staff. Why had I - a Protestant - chosen to walk the Camino? What did Santiago mean to me personally? Had the experience of walking been what I had expected? What were the greatest challenges, and how did I address and overcome them? What had I gained from walking the way? Did I think that the pilgrimage had changed my own spiritual perspective? This was not a pass/fail exam with a Compostela as a prize but a very stimulating conversation with a man who was genuinely interested in learning how someone from a different religious tradition approached the pilgrimage. It was also of great help to me in focussing my mind on intangible but important elements of my journey. A most enjoyable Spanish inquisition. Imagine the queues if that sort of interview was still going on.
 
Well, I for one have no problem with waiting a few more minutes to allow others to tell their story. Particularly those that explain they have walked in memory of someone. I know, I've walked with someone who was grieving a life-long partner. Another who was grieving a young daughter. I myself one year walked for a young friend diagnosed with MND (ALS). Vicario pro.

Having someone in the pilgrims office listen to these tragic stories is so very important. For some a vital bookend to their camino.
 
Good morning from the shores of the Rappahannock River, The increase of walkers in staggering, especially on the Camino Frances. After five Caminos we realized that we had become part of the problem and the overcrowding. We still walk and will walk again in September but will stay on the Arles and the Aragones and end in Pamplona, this is primarily to avoid the crowds. The bed races have taken so much of the enjoyment out of that walk. To each their own. I think the 100 km should be changed but then .........

Glad you completed your Camino Pax.

Give me a call sometime. ;-)
 
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All of the volunteers at the Pilgrim Office are now working behind the counter doing Compostelas. I am the only person at the office not doing Compostelas. That is because I am the only volunteer that does not speak fluent Spanish.

My duties include but are not limited to working the line, chatting up the pilgrims and answering questions. As there are many more people doing interviews and issuing Compostelas the line moves fairly rapidly. There is not time to interrupt the queue flow to prod pilgrims to do what they ought to have done before setting out.

Asking for a ID document remains the easiest course of action.
 

t2andreo said:
...
There is not time to interrupt the queue flow to prod pilgrims to do what they ought to have done before setting out.
...
Click to expand...
You lost me here. There is time to chat up pilgrims and answer questions but not enough time to ask "Can I see your credencial" and see if their name is legibly written? I'm pretty sure if you started with the third person in the queue, you could keep ahead of the pack and still have time (albeit, 2 seconds less) to chat them up. It would even be a fun and entertaining icebreaker. We could teach you how to ask in several languages too. Here it is in Aussie: "Lemme see that, mate." and in Russian: Покажи мне свои документы или я пошлю тебя в Сибирь.
 
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Here! Here! I recently completed the Camino Frances and was fastidious about collecting my stamps -- for six weeks. Upon arriving in Santiago, ironically, getting my Compostella no longer seemed important, lines or not. And as one of your respondents wrote, I went and had a ice cold beer or two and celebrated my accomplishment -- my recommendation, pass on the paperwork and take stock of your achievement --- it's the journey and what you take from it that counts. Rover
 
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Thank you for that, Kanga,

but I understand and feel Anemone's humorous tone in her post. I don't really want to talk about my experience as such and especially about the father of my dear (girl) friend that was ill. The volunteers were just curious about the route I walked because they haven't heard about it at all. They thought There is only Frances, Portugues, Plata and Primitivo
That's why they gathered there at the counter.

Although their attentiveness was a nice gesture I didn't need that at the moment. But thank you for your reply!
 
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Chatting is done ad hoc, and as the line moves. If I work the head of the line, when no security guard is present, the line moves quickly enough that the person is called in to be processed before they can figure out which hand or pocket holds their credential, who has a pen (not me because they "walk"), and what needs to be filled in. Most days, it is like herding cats...

If I am further down, chatting with people on line, it is usually in English. I DO inquire about filled in credentials. Anyone within earshot will get the message and (hopefully) check their credential.

However, it is not possible to check that all credentials are filled in at some "choke point" on the line. Doing so at any point in the office prevents the line from moving smoothly.

If the security guards did it at the outer door we have both mob behavior and language issues. Most of the guards speak only Spanish with a smattering of English. I am trying to help them informally with that.

Anything that occurs at the front door to create a delay at entering the building proper usually creates mob behavior, as some people (NO nationalities will be outted) refuse to honor the orderly queue and swamp the sole security guard. This most closely resembles a rugby scrum.

I HAVE tried in previous years to announce to people approaching the building to have their credentials out, filled in, and ready to show the security guard. The usual response is to regard me as 'caca de perro' or 'merde du chien,' something to be wiped off their soles. People disbelieve me until the security guard asks to see their pilgrim credentials, two or three meters away. Then we have a scrum situation...again

My Spanish pronunciation is correct. These phrases were learned by rote and repetition. But I learned, after several bouts of laryngitis, to just leave these folks to their own devices.

Finally, there is exactly one of me, five-hours a day, six-days a week, in all weather. There are many other things to do beyond working the line and hand-holding pilgrims. In fact, working the line is the lowest thing on my daily 'to do' list. I do this only when everything else is sorted.

Again, and back to the original point about ID. WHAT is the big deal about anyway? In our Western societies, one cannot do anything without having a government issued ID card or document on you at all times. I refuse to believe it is an imposition.

Finally, using my own initiative I have tried or suggested everything I can, over four years as a volunteer to improve the process. I have come to the recognition that some human behavior just defies a logical solution.

Some people just opt to remain clueless, meandering through life relying on the charity of strangers. There is a saying that has a parallel here. It relates to education and ignorance. But I think it appropriate to this portion of the thread; "Stupid should be painful..."

Signs do not work, people do not read them. Repeated announcements or even videos do not work, people ignore them as so much white noise.

There are not enough staff, including volunteers, to greet every arriving pilgrim in their own language, literally holding their hand to get through the process. Seriously folks, WHERE does individual responsibility, focusing on the process at hand, and PAYING ATTENTION start?

I do despair sometimes...
 
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Our family of four also finished in June and spent an hour in line. Yes, we were tired; however, we had lovely conversations with the people behind us. In fact, they have inspired us to try Porto to Santiago. If nothing else, the Camino reminds us that the best moments are being in and enjoying the moment.
 
Anemone del Camino said:
Just be grateful you didn't go today: 2250 people went in to pick their Compostela today.
Click to expand...
I arrived that day at 15 o'clock in Santiago, saw to much people over there, went for a beer and came back at 17, had to wait for my Compostela 5 minutes! So, be flexible and you will have both! Buen Camino!
 

@t2andreo = I applaud your patience and calmness ! Another reason why I'm certainly no "voluntaria material".
Again : all the best to you and everyone in the office.
 
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I think that the certificates are a privilege you gift yourself for a well achieved journey. A dream forfilled. So , a cold beer will do me perhaps after the collection of my certificate, besides you get to meet new people in the que and hear of their experiences.
 
Yes! Exactly!!!
 
I think folks are coming to understand much of what I have been preaching in my epistles here. Hopefully, I can get back to my cold Estrella Galicia...

Thank you to all those who 'get it.'

To those of you who might be 'Monday morning quarterbacking,' I invite you to 'walk a mile in my moccasins.'

I am issuing the following "Compostela Craziness Challenge" to all forum members who think they can do better or more:

1. Write an e-mail to Sra. Montse Díaz at:

info@acogidacristianaenelcamino.es

The message must be in Spanish. Introduce yourself. Indicate how many and which Caminos you have done, and when.

2. Explain your level of Spanish spoken. Mine is basic, but I can communicate.

3. Offer your services as a voluntario for a period of not less than two weeks. The cycle is from 1 - 15 of the month, and 16 - 31/30 of each month. Schedules start on Mondays.

The 'season' starts at Easter and runs through the end of September. The peak season is about 15 June - 15 September. That is when voluntarios are most needed.

The weather in Santiago during June - September is equivalent to the winter months in South Florida where I live. That is to say DELIGHTFUL! That is one big reason I come to help when I do. But I would come anyway, and will as often as they invite me back.

You pay to get here and back, and to feed yourself. The ACC (Acogida Cristiana en el Camino) provides lodging.

Hope to see you here next summer.

I do hope this helps, on several levels.
 
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Get a Spanish mobil number + data while on the Camino
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My bad it was an auto correct induced typo. I am working on my iPhone while in Santiago. I went back and edited the URL suffix. It is now correct.

Nate & Faith: Thanks for the assist.
 
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Other questions answered officially that were posted in this thread:

A living pilgrim CAN dedicate their Compostela to another living person who will never be able to do a Camino for health or advanced age reasons. In this case, the 'Vicare Pro' annotation is used, just as it is for a deceased person.

There is a special certificate that can be awarded to the seeing eye guide dog for a sight-challenged pilgrim who uses the dog to accomplish a Camino. However, this certificate must be specifically requested. "Service dogs" per se, are not accorded this certificate. So unless you are blind or nearly so, and rely on a guide dog to get you to Santiago, no certificate.

I posed these questions to one of the senior managers on the Pilgrim Office. This is what they told me.

I cannot entertain individual, anecdotal stories of past exceptions, or individual staff acts of compassion. The questions and answers above are considered by me to be the official policy.

I hope this helps.
 
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hel&scott said:
You should be fine. We usually go at that time of year as the weather is still good (and Scott got to celebrate his birthday on the way). There is another spike in numbers starting in Sept but it's not nearly as mad as July. Have a good walk.
Click to expand...
I'll be celebrating my 52nd Birthday along the way. Do you know what the temperature will be?
 
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falcon269 said:
While it can be cool evenings at higher elevations, it won't be cold. It might be hot. It will rain. Dressing in layers always works; convertible pants can be shorts. Buen camino.
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
Well well, it appears the FCIS is also voicing its displeasure with the crowds from Sarria again, this time being quoted in an article in a Belgian newspaper about general displeasure of Spaniards in general with what tourism in Spain has become, and the stresses it is putting on them.

It's not just Logrono, nor Baecelona.
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/internat...dont-on-a-ras-le-bol-5984683fcd706e263f30fcc9

About the Camino in particular, this ismwhat the article says:

" Les experts remarquent que la publicité officielle a souvent laissé de côté la culture ancestrale de l’Espagne pour privilégier le tourisme low cost, c’est-à-dire l’idée du soleil en permanence, du vin bon marché, de la paëlla et de la liberté du corps. Beaucoup dénoncent maintenant ce modèle. Même dans la pluvieuse Galice, les problèmes s’accumulent. "Les certificats aux pèlerins ayant accompli le Chemin de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle sont délivrés au rabais par l’église. Cela attire les foules. Les auberges du Chemin sont presque gratuites. Et des centaines de milliers de marcheurs internationaux laissent des déchets dans le merveilleux environnement du Chemin, après avoir abîmé ses auberges", assène le porte-parole de la Fraternité internationale du Chemin de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle." Or:

Experts notice that the official advertising often leaves the ancestral Spanish culture aside to focus low cost tourism, the idea of non stop sun, cheap wine, paella, and freedom of body. ... Even in rainy Galicia problems are adding up: the Compostela is being handed out cheaply by the Church. This brings crowds. Albergues are almost free. And hundreds of thousands of foreign walkers leave their trash behind after having vandalises the albergues.

I wonder if @Rebekah Scott has heard more recently from the FCIS and its thought process on these issues.
 
I walked the Camino a year ago this spring and got a Compostela then. I'm going back this Sept. to walk again. I can't think of why I would need another Compostela. I will have a celebratory glass of wine and spend some time in the plaza in front of the cathedral, watching pilgrims arrive.
 
Get a Spanish mobil number + data while on the Camino
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@Anemone del Camino I do not speak French and this is primarily an English speaking forum. Could you please provide a translation?

As to whether to pick up a Compostela, recently I walked "Vicarie Pro" (on behalf of someone who is terminally ill) and took the endorsed Compostela back to that person. I would do the same again. Otherwise probably not, although if I ever finish the Via de la Plata I will get one so I can also get the distance certificate!
 
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Hopefully The journey was worth it.
 
I'm walking this September. I will be staying at Orrison on Sept. 6 and on from there. What are your dates?
Do you know what to expect weather wise?
 
Janetlm said:
I'm walking this September. I will be staying at Orrison on Sept. 6 and on from there. What are your dates?
Do you know what to expect weather wise?
Click to expand...

Hi Janet, I see you found the calendar list I posted! I leave from Pamplona on Sept. 12th. I expect every kind of weather except snow, I hope. Bringing layers and rain gear. Jill
 
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www.happyhourwithjanet.com feel free to leave feedback.
 

Yes, I have now had two Compostelas issued "Vicarie Pro" people who were (then) still alive - one a young person with advanced terminal cancer and one with MND (sometimes called ALS). In each case the Pilgrim Office were fully aware they were still alive.

I doubt the volunteers would have knocked me back no matter the rules - as I explained each time I had tears pouring down my cheeks! Which is another reason compostelas still have value and are better handled by people than machines.
 
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I also finished the Camino in June. I did not notice any guards. I waited in line a little over an hour to receive my Compostela. The time went quickly as there was amiable chatter among all of us eager to have that paper firmly in hand. After all those days on the Camino we were content to wait a bit longer for the prize. So despair not you who have yet to complete the journey. Todo saldra en la lavada.
 
i plan to e bike it and happy to wait inline to get my certificate i hear there are 2 you can get one in latin and other in another language. I want to be yes a pilgrim but i also look forward to the history and scenery of the countries. Yes it will be tough on my physically but plan to take my time and finish good thing my gp has done the who way of st james from start to finish to fisterre so they are going to help with my physiotherapist a plan to get me riding a bike (ebike) a average of 50kms a day or 300 kms a week maxumum or even 30-40kms a day but just happy to hopefully achieve a life time dream. And have my wife come for support just a shame she cant ride with me.
 
Chenahusky what time mate does the office open and close please and thank you sir?
 
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t2Andreo thanks so much for explaining the process mate it is most helpful for my planning. All the very best to you and God bless you mate
 
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pilgrimglenn7 said:
Chenahusky what time mate does the office open and close please and thank you sir?
Click to expand...

After Easter, or maybe now, the Pilgrim Office opens at 08:00 and closes at 21:00, seven days a week. The office is open on Easter Sunday.

However, security staff will try to close the outer gates at about 20:15 or so to allow the staff to complete processing of all who are inside by that time. So, please do not get distracted and show up later.

We have had many incidents where drunken pilgrims failed to plan ahead and are banging on the closed outer door at 21:00, begging for a Compostela as their bus or plane leaves very early the next morning. Sometimes, the staff has to call the local police for assistance. Please plan ahead.

Official policy is that your failure to plan your time effectively does not create an emergency for the staff. The staff also have families and would like to get home to have their dinner. Remember, that many Spanish families have their main meal together at about 21:00 or so.

Fair is fair.

My advice is to relax, enjoy Santiago and come first thing the next morning. When they open the doors each morning, there is usually a short line lasting maybe 30 minutes.

The WORST times to show up are at 10:00 expecting to make the noon Pilgrim Mass, and just after the Mass lets out at about 13:15. The lines extend to more than 2 hours by about 14:00. Too many pilgrims believe incorrectly that they can walk into the office, get a Compostela, make the noon Mass, then catch a bus, train or plane out of town that afternoon. This is nearly impossible to coordinate.

Conversely, there is usually a daily "sweet spot," with short lines about 18:00 - 19:00.

Hope this helps.
 
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