- Time of past OR future Camino
- some and then more. see my signature.
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But, but, but, it's "their Camino"? Can't they just do whatever they want? I'm confused.
I think stupidity has been around a lot longer than the guidebooks, I take my shoes socks and poles home after each Camino and treasure the memories each item brings me. Words just leave me with these sort of tossers.As long as this 'tradition' is still mentioned in some guidebooks and pilgrim tales, this will sadly continue to happen.
Buen Camino, SY
It truly is devastating and sad that this happened. And it's very disappointing that this couple made such a poor decision. I'm also disappointed, though, to see them being called "morons" and "stupid" by fellow-pilgrims. I'm guessing they never wanted this destruction to happen ... that they just did what they thought was expected and "tradition" according to guidebooks and articles they read. I'll bet they feel humiliated and horrible. Judgment, condescension, and name calling go against the spirit of the Way. Sometimes it's hard not to let our anger and frustration get the best of us ... but, as pilgrims, as human beings, we should show compassion and grace. None of us is perfect and we all make or have made foolish mistakes.
from one such guide: One pilgrim ritual is to burn shoes or clothing to symbolise the end of the pilgrimage.As long as this 'tradition' is still mentioned in some guidebooks and pilgrim tales, this will sadly continue to happen.
Buen Camino, SY
Obviously not large enoughThere are signs around the lighthouse indicating that lighting fires is prohibited.
Wowwww. ...! Now I am confused! I hv jz literally arrived at Finisterra, and whilst at the Galician tourist information in Santiago, the lady pointed out to me (and highlighted) the current practices in the Galician Finisterra/Muxia camino guide that one partakes in the burning of a clothing item as well as take a bath in Langostiera Beach to obtain a Fisterrana. I had been debating which socks to burn! I did, though wonder the sense in the practice in the current forest fire situation in Northern Spain!View attachment 28680
.Kanga, I have also "heard/read" that in the old days, pilgrims arriving at the Cathedral were advised to get their clothes burned and also given "new garments" to wear before entering the Cathedral. Both symbolic and practical. Those must have been the days..... I met a kind lady in O'Cebreiro who answered my question without batting an eyelid. "Where did these pilgrims sleep". And she just said "anywhere"IF there is a tradition at Cabo Fisterra, it is of very recent origin.
The real tradition of burning clothes, is in Santiago de Compostela, on the rooftop of the Cathedral, in a medieval incinerator. Hardly surprising considering pilgrims were pretty much unwashed and probably crawling with lice and other vermin when they arrived. The incinerator is pointed out to visitors who do the rooftop tour.
This recent (actually today's) article in a local newspaper doesn't mince their words and speaks a clear language when they call it a pseudotradición de queimar prendes = a pseudo-tradition of burning clothes and estupidez disfrazada de moderna tradición de queimar unha prenda de roupa = a stupidity disguised as a modern tradition and warns that a fire may turn out to be lethal one day.
On the other hand, the official Tourism office for Galicia still touts the Cabo Fisterra and the Costa da Morte as the place for los peregrinos que según la tradición queman a la orilla del mar las ropas y comienza el regreso a casa and donde los peregrinos llegan a quemar sus ropas tras la larga caminata.
http://www.turismo.gal/o-cabo-fisterra?langId=es_ES
http://www.turismo.gal/patrimonio-na-costa-da-morte?langId=es_ES
Karthar1na... I absolutely LOVED it in Fisterra. I met some pilgrims I hadn't seen for days and they were at a cafe and we all "wept" together. I felt a huge weight being lifted off me. They were a Mom and Daughter team, btw. The kind lady paid for my tea when she left. I was beautifully amazed. Buen Camino,These "cleansing rituals" (bathing in the sea, burning something, watching the sun set in the sea) at Fisterra are a tradition that is about 25 years old, as is the Camino to Fisterra (in connection with the St James pilgrimage). Main factors were a book by Louis Charpentier, published in 1971, and then heavy promotion of a Camino de Fisterra starting in the 1990s by the autonomous community, the province and trail-related municipalities, reinforced by the modern narrative in guidebooks, books, blogs, movies. These rituals seem to be popular and appealing to many. I doubt that they can be supressed. Just repetitive omnipresent information and where necessary prohibition with heavy fines, regularly enforced, and wide spread publicity about the fines.
what adjectives should be used for pilgrims that follow supposed traditions of leaving graffiti on any clean surface they find,It truly is devastating and sad that this happened. And it's very disappointing that this couple made such a poor decision. I'm also disappointed, though, to see them being called "morons" and "stupid" by fellow-pilgrims. I'm guessing they never wanted this destruction to happen ... that they just did what they thought was expected and "tradition" according to guidebooks and articles they read. I'll bet they feel humiliated and horrible. Judgment, condescension, and name calling go against the spirit of the Way. Sometimes it's hard not to let our anger and frustration get the best of us ... but, as pilgrims, as human beings, we should show compassion and grace. None of us is perfect and we all make or have made foolish mistakes.
From here all the footwear look better than one sees at any second hand shop in my zip code. Do those bins of shoes/boots get donated to the needy? And I won't be burning my camino socks. I love them too much!An alternative in Finisterre:
View attachment 28690
SY, could not agree more. The fact that guidebooks claim this is a tradition implies that this practice is ok.
BTW, the article does not say the Italian couple was fined but "detenidos" which means arrested.
Apparently they went beyond burning a few items, they threw a burning boot further away!
Time for guid books, with the help of the community, to try a new "tradition": the donation bin. No air polution, no risk of forest fires, people in need benefitting, and the same feeling of elation, if that was ever real, but this time for doing a good deed.
I admit I've sinned in 2011 when I completed my Frances&Finisterre Camino. I burned pair of my 100% cotton socks with holes in them. I used to be scout and alpinist and well aware of polution also that's why I would never burn clothes made of tech materials and by all means not the boots. In 2015 I left them by the trash bins because soles were worn out but the rest was still OK. So somebody might used them for gardening or work in the field etc.
When in 2011 I was burning my socks a ranger came and said the fire is forbidden. I pointed to my second sock to show him it is nmade of cotton and to 1,5 liter plastic bottle full of water. He was pleased but every year since that I completed my Camino I didn't even think of burning anything.
A metal drum/large bin could be usefull. With someone to check the material of clothes intended to be burned. But I think that would be too much hassle for Ayuntamiento of Fisterra or other Galician authorities. That is the middle way I'm sure and would satisfy all involved.
Agree with you (almost) completely. But...I use the back country hike, which means you pack out what you bought. Garbage and all. Used and worn gear. All of it. Nobody expected Mother Nature to dispose of your worn gear, garbage and junk.
Can you imagine showing up a friends place, stripping off your clothes and burning them, tossing away what did not burn and dumping the rest on the garbage can? I am sure over time, your friends would stop inviting you over to their place.
The same should apply for the camino.
Nobody should expect the host country and its citizens to take responsibility to dispose of your junk.
Agree with you (almost) completely. But...
Disposing the 100% cotton socks makes no difference globaly whether I dispose (burn) them in Spain or somewhere around Lavrentiya or in my home country.
One other thing - When I go to the Croatian seaside I pay (same in Spain, Turkey etc.) tourist tax, approx.1€/day. They have told me it's for mending our shit and stuff, to be direct.
Therefore if my friend would clearly tell me what is it all about I would or wouldn't do that. By the time being nobody crossed with my "how-to-do's".
Instead of burning your socks or anything else for that matter, wash and dry them and donate them to those more needy and less fortunate. It is something that my wife and I do at home, and have done in various places like Nepal and Australia. Even in Spain there are people that would appreciate this act of charity and kindness.
How cool would that be?
A new camino tradition where of instead of burning your stuff, you gave it away to those in need!
Do as you should as others have done for you.
Have you care to see the first two photos???Instead of burning your socks or anything else for that matter, wash and dry them and donate them to those more needy and less fortunate. It is something that my wife and I do at home, and have done in various places like Nepal and Australia. Even in Spain there are people that would appreciate this act of charity and kindness.
How cool would that be?
A new camino tradition where of instead of burning your stuff, you gave it away to those in need!
Do as you may as others have done for you.
I did.Hav you care to see the first two photos???
Well, I think that explain everything I wrote before and after your comment.I did.
@jiritWhere and how you do it, matter less than simply doing it. And doing it more often.
On the subject of fires, consider the last paragraph of this article.
Traditional vs sensible. A simple act traditional activity that probably was not very sensible when conditions are so dry
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/32758646/portugal-spain-try-to-stamp-out-wildfires-after-deadly-week
My points were not directed at anybody in particular.Well, I think that explain everything I wrote before and after your comment.
Ivar, I am so sorry and what is left after from all bush fires it makes me sad, its not only the bush but those small animals and reptiles that have been destroyed. SORRY.
exactly ! thanks! on one item I "complained" of the change in sentiment and behavior in CF and then I feel bad - as intolerant and close-minded old woman. I mentioned leakage of waste, yelling, breaking branches with unripe fruit, walking through a wheat field (and thereby destroying the crop). Most of the comments were in meaning: things are as they are, they change and evolve, we must adapt and adopt. Each has its own way. However, as a pedagogical worker I know that it is much easier to directed things a bit at the beginning, as when the "grazing". Maybe as a friendly attachment when you get credential. Even the guides could be said some of the basic things, I think it is very nice once Rebekah Scott wrote about this (unfortunately I can not find).But, but, but, it's "their Camino"? Can't they just do whatever they want? I'm confused.
exactly ! thanks! on one item I "complained" of the change in sentiment and behavior in CF and then I feel bad - as intolerant and close-minded old woman. I mentioned leakage of waste, yelling, breaking branches with unripe fruit, walking through a wheat field (and thereby destroying the crop). Most of the comments were in meaning: things are as they are, they change and evolve, we must adapt and adopt. Each has its own way. However, as a pedagogical worker I know that it is much easier to directed things a bit at the beginning, as when the "grazing". Maybe as a friendly attachment when you get credential. Even the guides could be said some of the basic things, I think it is very nice once Rebekah Scott wrote about this (unfortunately I can not find).
In any event, common sense should be above the need to follow to some custom (in mid-summer in many Mediterranean countries, is prohibited open fire - because of the danger of fire, when all is dried and full of essential oils, which quickly burst into flames
And I wrote (probably in contrast to what most thought): This is not your Camino. It is yours and the one who walks in front of you and behind you. And, First of all - is home to people who live along it.
Not being a student of the History of the Camino I will not challenge your position, however would you please explain the history/tradition of returning pilgrims (in the 11th-14th C) carrying a scollop/scalop shell as proof that they had completed their pilgrimage? CheersThese "cleansing rituals" (bathing in the sea, burning something, watching the sun set in the sea) at Fisterra are a tradition that is about 25 years old, as is the Camino to Fisterra (in connection with the St James pilgrimage).
I find it sad the "doing ones own Camino" has become synonymous with bad (rude, selfish, self indulgent) behaviour. When I first read the term it was regarding a pilgrim wishing to walk but her personal limitations meant she would have to use a baggage service. She was concerned that people would judge her for not being a real pilgrim. Someone kindly told her to worry less about what others thought and to do "her own Camino".LOVE IT.
You are speaking for me. Like a Hospitalero myself, I try to friendly teach? pilgrims about good behaviour on the Camino. Many times I received a smug look in return. And again and again, not ever but increasingly the answer to my statement is the same: "...but I'm doing my OWN camino. Please Do Not Be Judgemental!
The sad true is that our civilisation its turned more and more self indulgent. Like a very wise american friend said. "The pronoun "I" is the only one that always is written with capital letter."
Buen camino to you all, honest people.
Oh, now there is a topic for a thread or two. Well I suppose it has been thrashed through a few times already. I can't find the recent quote but is was apposite and I'll paraphrase it as - "it is your camino; but it is also everyone else's camino".the Camino has become a cost effective adventure vacation?
Yes there is a fair amount of anger and sarcasm on this forum. Not pleasant.It truly is devastating and sad that this happened. And it's very disappointing that this couple made such a poor decision. I'm also disappointed, though, to see them being called "morons" and "stupid" by fellow-pilgrims. I'm guessing they never wanted this destruction to happen ... that they just did what they thought was expected and "tradition" according to guidebooks and articles they read. I'll bet they feel humiliated and horrible. Judgment, condescension, and name calling go against the spirit of the Way. Sometimes it's hard not to let our anger and frustration get the best of us ... but, as pilgrims, as human beings, we should show compassion and grace. None of us is perfect and we all make or have made foolish mistakes.
Unfortunately the written word has little effect on the self-entitled.Obviously not large enough
Hi.total moron,
stupid,
ignorant,
sadly,
stupidity,
nauseating,
disgusted and embarrassed,
ridiculous .... etc
Who are you / me to judge?
These words say about you, what you are, not what they are. Who is not with me, is against me.
There was an accident, not the first nor the last. On the Camino dog bites pilgrims, did we look for to remove all the dogs from the Way?
Tradition or not, pilgrims do that, so it should be adjusted.
The whole CF is commercialized, why they do not put the drum at a lighthouse?
Bota
Hi Ildefonso,Hi.
I dont know how are you to judge, but I know who I am to do it.
I´m a spanish citizen, who likes to obey the laws of my country, and like the visitors which obey it, too.
I´m a pilgrim who loves the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage, and do not like tourists that think they can do whatever they want, disrespecting the Camino and my country.
I am a human who like to see how the Cultural Heritage of the Humanity is been preserved for my sons, and the sons of my sons. And for your sons and the sons of your sons too.
I am a man who is willing to front facing the consequences of their actions and be judged by my peers.
I am a man who do not think everything is ok.
I am an adult.
And those who not comply with the laws, the rules, etc because they think "I´m doing my own Camino, my own life, my own... ( write what you want) ", those who think they can hold a burning shoe on their hands in the middle of the bush. because burning things at the end of the word is cool and do not care what those stupid locals think, those who think "nobody has the rigth to judge me", are morons, stupid, ignorant etc persons.
And acording spanish laws are criminals too, and they will be probably condemned by a spanish judge, who for sure has the rigth to judge them to something arder than a fine.
Buen Camino to you, all honest people.
Ildefonso.
Have you seen signs in Fistrra inviting people to set fires? I have not?
At Finisterre, you can find lots of advertisements about forbiddance of fires. You can find too guards informing people about dangerous behaviors. All Spain is banned area for open fires. ( Not barbacues are allowed on our own gardens)Hi Ildefonso,
when I came over the Pyrenees to Spain, nobody gave me the Spanish laws. I, and many other pilgrimage. do not know the Spanish laws. But we know the normal and cultural behavior. Mostly, we do it.
But when you Spanish, write something and say that this tradition, what do you expect from people who read it?
For that reason, for my/you sons, and the sons of my/you sons, is it a problem to put one drum at a lighthouse?
Nothing else.
Who wants something burn, do it in drum.
And everybody happy.
Bota
Hi, Anemone. No, I have not heard any news about that, but according spanish laws probably they will be sentenced to prison. But nevertheless due the no voluntariness of the crime, I think they will not be imprisioned. A sad story.Pinguigrino, have you heard further news on sanctions against this couple?
Hi. I suggest to comply spanish law. No fires are allowed. No drums, no barbacues, nort a single ccigarrete trown on the fields. Simply.super, we can talk and talk, but what's the solution?
I suggested drum, and you?
Only sanctions?
On
Then start with sanctions to those who write about it in guidebooks.
Bota
Drum on the rocks / beach is equally ugly in Finisterre as it been in Split. I think that even those who have the need to burn shoes and clothes do not have the same "joy" if they do it in the drum - not enough "primal"super, we can talk and talk, but what's the solution?
I suggested drum, and you?
Only sanctions?
Then start with sanctions to those who write about it in guidebooks.
Bota
You have to be more creative and pro-active: Put up huge custom-made clothes containers; paint them in rainbow colours or in blue with yellow scallops; put catchy slogans on them, such as "give and you will be given", "the Camino takes what you will not need"; create a little saying/prayer to recite before clothing or shoes are put into the container; create a myth about what will happen if you do/don't put your stuff into these containers at the end of your walk to Cape Finisterre; persuade Emilio Esteban to include an appropriate scene in his "The Way II" movie.
You know what is happening in Brazil where burning of the Amazon forests?Because it is bad for the environment? You know the earth we live on and the air we breath?
Buen Camino, SY
The easiest way is to something forbi, and then do sanction.
Many people want to do it, why we do not create conditions to do it?
About image by the OP and Ivar put on, picture shows that the fire was in front of the lighthouse. Not behind, where pilgrims burn their things.
Many tourists come by bus, why do you think that it ignited a pilgrim?
You know what is happening in Brazil where burning of the Amazon forests?
You know what is happening in Indonesia where airplanes do not fly because fire from the rainforest make the smoke that nothing can see?
This is bad for the environment, this is bed for our little sphere.
Bota
please translate this, I really want to start using ita dog with a silly hat ( local expression)
"Here is a drum/barrel, it is 'a bit windy' but lets burn our clothes/shoes anyway. Oops, I never imagined that the wind would be so strong to carry off a piece of burning fabric and set fire to that forest/shrub/bush. So sorry, didn't mean to set fire to the lighthouse. Seriously officer, I didn't mean to ..."
Ditto, @Smallest_Sparrow ! I blame YOUUUU!you are the reason I can no longer have beverages next to my keyboard
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