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Hi @cher99840 - It's a curious reply and wondering if you would elaborate why you hope not? If my history is correct a significant number of Pilgrims since the beginning of its history have been made to walk the Camino for this very reason albeit under the authority of the Church rather than that of the law. Wondering what is different between then and now?Very interesting question and I look forward to responses. From judgemental me, a resounding "I hope not!!"
I met an Oikoten couple (German young offender and his French "walker") at the albergue in Ourense a couple of years ago. Sounded like a great idea, but I don't think it was working in his case. He was a chain-smoking and belligerent teenager, and she had the patience of a saint (which she needed). I hope they made it to the tomb, but didn't see them in Cea the next (very rainy) day, so suspect not.Yup, I met this month a Belgium teacher who had been walking the Camino with young offenders. She was on her own when our paths crossed but she told me it had been a wonderful experience for all concerned and very rewarding.
Hi @cher99840 - It's a curious reply and wondering if you would elaborate why you hope not? If my history is correct a significant number of Pilgrims since the beginning of its history have been made to walk the Camino for this very reason albeit under the authority of the Church rather than that of the law. Wondering what is different between then and now?
I know in past times, Courts would make someone walk the Camino instead of going to jail or some other punishment for crimes committed. ?
When I walked the Frances I had an interesting chat with a lovely French pilgrim called Jaques.
He told me the only two other fellow countrymen he'd met were two female pilgrims. One a prison
warder, the other her young charge. The latter had chosen to walk to Santiago rather than a
custodial sentence. No idea how it all ended
Is any of this court ordered? I don't think so. These are projects for preparing social reintegration, of which there is a a large variety in various countries. Participation is voluntary I think, and if anything, a court grants permission to participate instead of ordering it. A far cry from the Middle Ages.
I appreciate the openness of this reply and understand a little better now your original reply.Hi Jozero, I'd love to elaborate; thanks for asking. I'm more used to people suggesting I get to the point rather than requesting greater detail.
I am reading the posts on mentoring with great interest. I think it would be great for counsellors to recommend the Camino and that volunteers be willing to assist people with preparing for the journey , maybe even helping them gather their kit.
I responded the way I did for a couple of reasons. First I am in the US and the very thought of making the offer to walk across Spain or go to jail is just unrealistic. Most people would choose the walk but would be unable to pull it off financially, and if they did, would likely embrace it as one long pub crawl. I am not addressing the pluses and minuses of the European justice system because I know nothing about it.
Finally, in my 41 years in a 12 step program I have seen countless souls directed to meetings with a form to have signed proving their attendance. I'm sure there have been some success stories among this horde, but I have not personally witnessed any. I simply do not like for a judge to order people to take part in activities when willingness is the key to the hoped for changes.
... Despite all the modern examples that have been referred to, I still feel that the modern practice has nothing to do with the penitential pilgrimages of the Middle Ages.
It feels the same to me. Someone did something wrong and the authority of the time gave them the opportunity to use Pilgrimage as a catalyst for change. Although the body of authority has changed the desired outcome seems to be very similar; be a better person, internally and externally, and follow the rules.Interesting, thank you. I understand from Wikipedia that Emilio Calatayud is known in Spain for his "sentencias rehabilitatorias y ejemplares" for young offenders.
Despite all the modern examples that have been referred to, I still feel that the modern practice has nothing to do with the penitential pilgrimages of the Middle Ages.
I walked with a prisoner and his guard for a little way last year!I know in past times, Courts would make someone walk the Camino instead of going to jail or some other punishment for crimes committed. But is this true today? In Spain could a young adult say be sentenced to probation and made to walk the Camino instead of some other punishment.?
I was surprised to see the word "Oikoten" in the monthly statistics published by the Santiago Pilgrim's Office. You find it under the heading "Profesiones de los peregrinos". 6 in July, 1 in June, and 1 in May of this year, and 13 in total last year (2015). Oikoten is the name of the Belgian programme already mentioned in this thread.
Is any of this court ordered? I don't think so. These are projects for preparing social reintegration, of which there is a a large variety in various countries. Participation is voluntary I think, and if anything, a court grants permission to participate instead of ordering it. A far cry from the Middle Ages.
I know in past times, Courts would make someone walk the Camino instead of going to jail or some other punishment for crimes committed. But is this true today? In Spain could a young adult say be sentenced to probation and made to walk the Camino instead of some other punishment.?
I appreciate the openness of this reply and understand a little better now your original reply.
With preface that I am not saying any of your thoughts are wrong, I'll share my thoughts. If a young person has perpetrated an act whereby they find themselves in front of a Judge and waiting for a 'sentence' (for a relatively moderate infraction only and not the @domigee medieval example!) and the options were a short-term incarceration or an equivalent time spent walking the Camino, I think there is a greater chance of leaving the person in a better position to be a productive part of their community at the end of the Camino option. Is it feasible from north america, no. Do I believe it would work 100% of the time, no, but I do believe it would be more often than it would with the incarceration route, especially in north america where stats show that once you're in the system you are pretty likely going to be back again soon. A friend of mine from Belgium has a cousin who was one of the volunteers for this program. My understanding is that it wasn't mandated but they were given the 'either/or' option. They walked from Belgium to SDC and carried their homes on their backs (tent) for the whole trip. She said in this case it was a great success for the young person she was escorting. Even if this is the only success out of 10 tries, I like the idea!
I am very curious as to why you say so emphatically "I hope not!!". I'm not suggesting anything by asking this question but genuinely curious to know you reasoning.Very interesting question and I look forward to responses. From judgemental me, a resounding "I hope not!!"
Hi Trevor, If you scroll up you will see my explanation. Jozero asked as you did, and I explained it then.I am very curious as to why you say so emphatically "I hope not!!". I'm not suggesting anything by asking this question but genuinely curious to know you reasoning.
Hi,
In Belgium there is a book on 30 years of oikoten in support of the organisation in order to be able to continue the project since government funding was cut back 2 years ago.
For those interested it is called "Ik dus naar Compostella" published by Lannoo. Unfortunately for non-Dutch speakers. it is in Dutch...
We organized a reading of the book with some past oikoten walkers, both guides and juveniles and I was very impressed by these people. As a guide it is definitely a hard thing to do. They specifically choose guides with "life experience" but avoid people whose job relates to dealing with delinquents. For the juveniles it is very much a leap of faith. Often they mistrust the system of institutions and are not used to people believing in them. That is what oikoten is all about. Giving the juveniles a second chance, showing them people can care about them and giving them a positive life experience.
It is all voluntary. Some judges and social workers look for young delinquents who might benefit from the experience and offer them the opportunity. Often linked to "independent living" and leaving the institution after the trip.
So it is not court ordered but a judge needs to be OK with it. Since the juveniles are often -18 they need permission by their guardian, which is the judge if they are internalised in an institution, is my understanding.
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