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But that was my point @Bradypus.... I was a first-time pilgrim to Jerusalem.I have no plans to ask for one in future. But I already have several. I wonder what my feelings would be as a first-time pilgrim? Probably a little different.
But it is there for the moment and it might take some time to uninvent it and for people to forget about itIf if is not there, no-one will miss it?
Just wondering, you understand....
Yes, at least for me...My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
OKWell another thread on the same subject from today supporting getting the Compostela is now a "sticky". Comments questioning whether a Compostela is needed have been removed. So you might decide that it is the policy of this site that a Compostela is a "good thing".
Can you direct me to that thread? Thanks (I can’t find itWell another thread on the same subject from today supporting getting the Compostela is now a "sticky". Comments questioning whether a Compostela is needed have been removed. So you might decide that it is the policy of this site that a Compostela is a "good thing".
I don't think that people are desperate to get one. The discontent arises because "they got one and I didn't and that's not fair".So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
The only comment removed was a rather nasty one that attacked a person who wanted a Compostela.Well another thread on the same subject from today supporting getting the Compostela is now a "sticky". Comments questioning whether a Compostela is needed have been removed. So you might decide that it is the policy of this site that a Compostela is a "good thing".
Receiving my first Compostela was made a special occasion by the personal in-depth conversation which preceded it - a religious debriefing which helped me enormously to look back at what my own journey had involved. I cannot feel any such warmth for my more recent encounters with the process which now feels mechanical and driven by trivial rules in comparison.Ah, the old days; now it's become so technical.
Excellent ideaWhen I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
I got one the first time I arrived in Santiago, then a second one, then a third one, then I quit after 4 of them.
I loved going to the old office with the little courtyard and the tiny staircase to the second floor.
Sitting across the street in the cafe was memorial as pilgrims hung out waiting too see friends they had made walking for the past month or so.
Ah, the old days; now it's become so technical.
It is clear that the Compostela is important to the majority of people at some point in their Camino life. I really like the idea of a final, special, dated, maybe larger stamp from Santiago on the last page of the Credential.When I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
Many folks, including many of us here, understand that once you have earned a couple of Compostelas, the credencial is truly the best souvenir you have from any Camino. After my fourth Compostela, I stopped asking for them. Going forward, I only plan to request one, if I need it for an "In Vicare Pro" purpose.
Right now, the process is "catch as catch can." If a pilgrim asks for only a stamp, we normally pull the person out of the queue, into the back door and get it done, quietly and rapidly. I want to elevate this mini-process to a formal service, as an visible and viable alternative to queuing for a Compostela.
My recommendation would be to do it somewhere other than the main processing area. One idea is to do it in the large waiting area room, on the ground floor of the adjacent rectangular building down the stairs to the garden and to the left. In that space, there is a tall counter opposite the end where the QR kiosks are located. Adding a few signs, and a spot on the large HDTV in the entry that provides information to arriving pilgrims, and we would be in business.
My thought is that either a volunteer or security person (as available in either case) can affix the two stamps after explaining the significance of closing out the credencial. It costs nothing, and takes maybe a minute for the whole transaction. Clearly the availability of an 'extra' person to do this would be a seasonal affair. But that is precisely when the alternative is needed the most.
Ideally, we might / could / would move this process out of the office campus completely. But I am at a loss to figure out where that could be accomplished, still keeping it under the aegis of the Cathedral administration. One idea, but "crazy out-of-the-box" idea, is to permit it at each of the official Cathedral gift shops, some three or four remote locations, located under, or adjacent to the Cathedral.
My brain keeps percolating and generating ideas. Some are better than others. Which follows, logically, that some are more hare-brained that others... But, I keep throwing the ideas out there...
Hope this helps the dialog.
Since the Camino de Santiago has become a commercialised hike to the masses and not a pilgrimage any more, I personally do not see the need for a Compostela any more. But on the other hand, for me, who still treats the Camino as a sacret pilgrimage, it would be my reward at the end of the journey to Santiago de Compostela.
Hi T2When I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
Many folks, including many of us here, understand that once you have earned a couple of Compostelas, the credencial is truly the best souvenir you have from any Camino. After my fourth Compostela, I stopped asking for them. Going forward, I only plan to request one, if I need it for an "In Vicare Pro" purpose.
Right now, the process is "catch as catch can." If a pilgrim asks for only a stamp, we normally pull the person out of the queue, into the back door and get it done, quietly and rapidly. I want to elevate this mini-process to a formal service, as an visible and viable alternative to queuing for a Compostela.
My recommendation would be to do it somewhere other than the main processing area. One idea is to do it in the large waiting area room, on the ground floor of the adjacent rectangular building down the stairs to the garden and to the left. In that space, there is a tall counter opposite the end where the QR kiosks are located. Adding a few signs, and a spot on the large HDTV in the entry that provides information to arriving pilgrims, and we would be in business.
My thought is that either a volunteer or security person (as available in either case) can affix the two stamps after explaining the significance of closing out the credencial. It costs nothing, and takes maybe a minute for the whole transaction. Clearly the availability of an 'extra' person to do this would be a seasonal affair. But that is precisely when the alternative is needed the most.
Ideally, we might / could / would move this process out of the office campus completely. But I am at a loss to figure out where that could be accomplished, still keeping it under the aegis of the Cathedral administration. One idea, but "crazy out-of-the-box" idea, is to permit it at each of the official Cathedral gift shops, some three or four remote locations, located under, or adjacent to the Cathedral.
My brain keeps percolating and generating ideas. Some are better than others. Which follows, logically, that some are more hare-brained that others... But, I keep throwing the ideas out there...
Hope this helps the dialog.
hi t2andreo. When un may will you be there?When I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
Many folks, including many of us here, understand that once you have earned a couple of Compostelas, the credencial is truly the best souvenir you have from any Camino. After my fourth Compostela, I stopped asking for them. Going forward, I only plan to request one, if I need it for an "In Vicare Pro" purpose.
Right now, the process is "catch as catch can." If a pilgrim asks for only a stamp, we normally pull the person out of the queue, into the back door and get it done, quietly and rapidly. I want to elevate this mini-process to a formal service, as an visible and viable alternative to queuing for a Compostela.
My recommendation would be to do it somewhere other than the main processing area. One idea is to do it in the large waiting area room, on the ground floor of the adjacent rectangular building down the stairs to the garden and to the left. In that space, there is a tall counter opposite the end where the QR kiosks are located. Adding a few signs, and a spot on the large HDTV in the entry that provides information to arriving pilgrims, and we would be in business.
My thought is that either a volunteer or security person (as available in either case) can affix the two stamps after explaining the significance of closing out the credencial. It costs nothing, and takes maybe a minute for the whole transaction. Clearly the availability of an 'extra' person to do this would be a seasonal affair. But that is precisely when the alternative is needed the most.
Ideally, we might / could / would move this process out of the office campus completely. But I am at a loss to figure out where that could be accomplished, still keeping it under the aegis of the Cathedral administration. One idea, but "crazy out-of-the-box" idea, is to permit it at each of the official Cathedral gift shops, some three or four remote locations, located under, or adjacent to the Cathedral.
My brain keeps percolating and generating ideas. Some are better than others. Which follows, logically, that some are more hare-brained that others... But, I keep throwing the ideas out there...
Hope this helps the dialog.
Of course I see your post as your highly personal and subjective point of view.
You need a "passport" in order to get a "compostela" (a certificate for completing the Camino) when you reach Santiago. They are easily obtained in St. Jean Pied de Port. You can also get one from www.americanPilgrims.org.Just read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
There is a bit of truth to that post. Evident in so much commercialism associated with the Camino these days and also the sea of walkers on the path for partying etc. I have met many pilgrims whilst on the path that had no idea of its origins.Of course I see your post as your highly personal and subjective point of view.
Surely you do not mean that only the " Happy Few "can go on a pilgrimage?
I sincerely hope your use of the term " the masses " is tongue in cheek? If not, well...
Hi T2
hi t2andreo. When un may will you be there?
Just read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
Good idea.When I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
Many folks, including many of us here, understand that once you have earned a couple of Compostelas, the credencial is truly the best souvenir you have from any Camino. After my fourth Compostela, I stopped asking for them. Going forward, I only plan to request one, if I need it for an "In Vicare Pro" purpose.
Right now, the process is "catch as catch can." If a pilgrim asks for only a stamp, we normally pull the person out of the queue, into the back door and get it done, quietly and rapidly. I want to elevate this mini-process to a formal service, as an visible and viable alternative to queuing for a Compostela.
My recommendation would be to do it somewhere other than the main processing area. One idea is to do it in the large waiting area room, on the ground floor of the adjacent rectangular building down the stairs to the garden and to the left. In that space, there is a tall counter opposite the end where the QR kiosks are located. Adding a few signs, and a spot on the large HDTV in the entry that provides information to arriving pilgrims, and we would be in business.
My thought is that either a volunteer or security person (as available in either case) can affix the two stamps after explaining the significance of closing out the credencial. It costs nothing, and takes maybe a minute for the whole transaction. Clearly the availability of an 'extra' person to do this would be a seasonal affair. But that is precisely when the alternative is needed the most.
Ideally, we might / could / would move this process out of the office campus completely. But I am at a loss to figure out where that could be accomplished, still keeping it under the aegis of the Cathedral administration. One idea, but "crazy out-of-the-box" idea, is to permit it at each of the official Cathedral gift shops, some three or four remote locations, located under, or adjacent to the Cathedral.
My brain keeps percolating and generating ideas. Some are better than others. Which follows, logically, that some are more hare-brained that others... But, I keep throwing the ideas out there...
Hope this helps the dialog.
Still, there are several alternative location inside the building that involved partnering with other entities
The OP, @domigee, asked of the Compostela "do we really need one???". They didn't ask about meaning or value of, or even historic validity against machine age value. I appreciate that members will, and have, approached the original question from a variety of original angles.
So, need. Need for what purpose? Are we to offer the ghost of a document to The Holder of the Keys to Heaven as we stand in supplication at St Peter's Gate? Bragging Rights - I did that and I've got the certificate to prove it (it sits, framed, next to my Cycling Proficiency Test and my 2.1 PhD)? A treasured memento; alongside that olive-branch from Parnassus and that bit of shrapnel M.A.S.H dug out and popped in a jar. Something to be produced to steer the dinner-party conversation away from (insert your own contentious topic).
I see nothing commercial in the Compostela, they are provided gratis to those who put in a little effort, such as spending 5 days strolling through Galicia and a day in a queue. Interestingly obtaining the Distance Certificate that recognises the achievement of anyone who has walked from say Bratislava or Benidorm requires a fee and a day in that same queue. History will tell us whether the current crisis in Compostela Land (or the Pilgrims Office) is just a blip in administration or the herald of doom. Whether the PO finally found a way to cope with 2019's September surge will eventually be revealed.
Meanwhile, to @Domingee's original question: "Do we really need [a compostela]?" I think we don't. The process of walking Camino(s), caminar, is what we need. The Compostela is but an adjunct. And if we really walk all the way to the shrine of Santiago just to get a Compostella then we need to go back and start again.
Well, @Tincatinker said it much better than I was about to. Gracias, amigo:My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Meanwhile, to @Domingee's original question: "Do we really need [a compostela]?" I think we don't. The process of walking Camino(s), caminar, is what we need. The Compostela is but an adjunct. And if we really walk all the way to the shrine of Santiago just to get a Compostella then we need to go back and start again.
Ah well. That already exists, in any event.Not trying to start a Tinca fan club here
I got in trouble several years ago for having a stainless steel dog watering bowl, filled with water, outside, because I had lettered the bowl "Oficina de Peregrinos" using a Brother labeling machine. A city official actually threatened a summons... go figure...
Well, @Tincatinker said it much better than I was about to. Gracias, amigo:
Ah well. That already exists, in any event.
OFGS! That's profoundly petty.
Tradition is important too.Just read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
Since the Camino de Santiago has become a commercialised hike to the masses and not a pilgrimage any more, I personally do not see the need for a Compostela any more. But on the other hand, for me, who still treats the Camino as a sacret pilgrimage, it would be my reward at the end of the journey to Santiago de Compostela.
This is so true. What do we need to prove ? Would that change anything? I did Kili in 5 days. So what! The experience is to talk with pilgrim with a big smile and sometime hug them as they need it. Sometime when you know them a bit more, just tell them you love them or call her my dorling and make joke to make them feel good as a human being. This is much more important than a certificate. Just lesson to what they have to say. Sometime they need to let it out and need a stranger that will tell them that is good to do this and forget the past and live the present moment. This is the real Camino. What is really important is the moment. Not the past or the future. The moment and they will remember it more than the certificateJust read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
Just read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
After 2 caminos on my own, in September I took my husband and 13 year old grandson to Spain, and we walked from Leon to Santiago.Just read a couple of threads about problems experienced getting a Compostela .... I feel for both the pilgrims who cannot obtain it and for the staff/volunteers at the pilgrims’ office.
My question is, bluntly: do we really need one???
Personally, I don’t think so.
I queued like everyone else in Santiago because... it is what people didAnd it was quite pleasant, arriving early and maybe... a half hour wait? Chatting to/hugging fellow pilgrims you had lost sight of.... All in all quite pleasurable.
When it becomes so difficult as having huge queues, numbers, coming back the following day etc etc Is it really worth it? What does it give you?
To explain where I come from.... I walked to Jerusalem, which to me was ... I can’t even say what it meant....
AnywayThere was no Certificate at the end, nothing. Does it make it less real? Does it mean people won’t believe me? Do I have to prove to anyone I walked it? Does anyone care?
No.
So I am just asking: please ask yourselves why you need it so much and why it is worth causing so much hassle/disappointment
From my perspective, I admire and envy you for the change in your lifestyle. Sounds like it is one that will give you a dream of a reality! or should that be the other way round???I think the general consensus is - we do not need one but it is a fond memento to have...
Going on our first Camino - when we eventually received our (replaced because stolen!) 'Compostelas' we proudly framed them and hung them in the hallway. That journey sparked a longing to return to other Caminos, to travel other long distance routes - in short - to change our lives so that we could travel more and work far less.. So - a decade later - our home is rented out and we live in a small garden shed - no room for the Compostelas - they and a few other items we could not bear to part with are stacked in boxes in the garage.....! But we are now free to roam - Via de Plata, Asia, Isles of Scilly, Guernsey - in every place we find reminders of Camino/St James/Pilgrims - in fact life is now totally a pilgrimage - and that has made all the difference....!
Exactly! After my first Camino and Compostela, I decided that one (Compostela) was enough and that I felt no need to explain myself.I have no plans to ask for one in future. But I already have several. I wonder what my feelings would be as a first-time pilgrim? Probably a little different.
Hopefully I will be lucky enough to get my Compostela from you t2andreo since I will be there at the end of first week of may 2020.When I am next at the Pilgrim Office, likely in May 2020, I plan to push for a dedicated "solo sello" stand, booth, or window at the Pilgrim Office. It is another way to siphon off some of the increasing volume.
Many folks, including many of us here, understand that once you have earned a couple of Compostelas, the credencial is truly the best souvenir you have from any Camino. After my fourth Compostela, I stopped asking for them. Going forward, I only plan to request one, if I need it for an "In Vicare Pro" purpose.
Right now, the process is "catch as catch can." If a pilgrim asks for only a stamp, we normally pull the person out of the queue, into the back door and get it done, quietly and rapidly. I want to elevate this mini-process to a formal service, as an visible and viable alternative to queuing for a Compostela.
My recommendation would be to do it somewhere other than the main processing area. One idea is to do it in the large waiting area room, on the ground floor of the adjacent rectangular building down the stairs to the garden and to the left. In that space, there is a tall counter opposite the end where the QR kiosks are located. Adding a few signs, and a spot on the large HDTV in the entry that provides information to arriving pilgrims, and we would be in business.
My thought is that either a volunteer or security person (as available in either case) can affix the two stamps after explaining the significance of closing out the credencial. It costs nothing, and takes maybe a minute for the whole transaction. Clearly the availability of an 'extra' person to do this would be a seasonal affair. But that is precisely when the alternative is needed the most.
Ideally, we might / could / would move this process out of the office campus completely. But I am at a loss to figure out where that could be accomplished, still keeping it under the aegis of the Cathedral administration. One idea, but "crazy out-of-the-box" idea, is to permit it at each of the official Cathedral gift shops, some three or four remote locations, located under, or adjacent to the Cathedral.
My brain keeps percolating and generating ideas. Some are better than others. Which follows, logically, that some are more hare-brained that others... But, I keep throwing the ideas out there...
Hope this helps the dialog.
Not planned that way but it turns out I start my walk Palm SundayI am looking at potential Caminos now. Once I figure out a route, I will start planning. I usually start a full week AFTER Easter to get that clog in front of me.
Say hello, I'm voluntering upstairs in the Dutch Huiskamer.Hopefully I will be lucky enough to get my Compostela from you t2andreo since I will be there at the end of first week of may 2020.
Hopefully I will be lucky enough to get my Compostela from you t2andreo since I will be there at the end of first week of may 2020.
Thanks for filling me inThank you very much for the thought. But, my annual summer volunteer stint is from mid-July to mid-August.
If I am in Santiago in May, it will be because I just came in from MY annual Camino, This year, I plan to do the first half of the Via de la Plata.
I would do all six-weeks or so in one go, but "she who must be obeyed will not permit it. So half the loaf is near as good.
I am not sure of my exact arrival dates or how much time I will linger at Santiago. Usually, I try to stay for 5 - 7 days after walking into town from a Camino. This lets me reconnect with friends and do some lobbying for changes at the pilgrim office.
My plans were to try to see Peter and Marianne in the Huiskamer (they are there from 1 - 15 May). Also, there are several other forum members who are fiends and will be arriving in Santiago from their Caminos around that time as well.
It is too early to commit to May dates yet. But, I will try to post my location in the forum once it gets close, and I know when I will be there.
Each time I am at Santiago, there are several folks who want to have a coffee, beer, wine, or meal together. I am very happy to make myself available if I am there.
When we get that close, I will share direct contact text and email information via PM to interested forum members, so we can coordinate close-in.
Look forward to meeting you in May if at all possible.
Hope this helps.
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