Globetrottingpilgrim2010
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances, Portuguese, Finisterre, Muxia
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I qualified as an RE teacher but couldn't face the uphill struggle of getting the majority of my teaching colleagues to value the subject, let alone my students. The lack of knowledge of religion in its many forms in so many people is depressing to me. The lack of respect shown in so many places of worship is at least in part a result of that ignorance.Snipers? Close down the internet? Start educating children rather than just train them to pass exams?
It is difficult to combat disrespect in places of worship unless the local rules are made to be enforced. I witnessed an incident at Christian service in Paris. People were asked not to take photos during the service. The person in front of me decided to disregard the request and was tapped on the shoulder and asked to leave. Disrespectful should be challenged always.This seems to be a common dilemma across the world these days, made more apparent with the surge in global tourism. I’ve attached this article as it specifically mentions the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela. (I’ve been to Pilgrim’s Mass on several occasions and have witnessed firsthand pilgrims/tourists ignoring requests to stop talking and taking photos - which was blatantly ignored as soon as the Botofumiero was lifted). I’d be curious to hear what ideas people have to address this problem.
Flooded with sightseers, Europe's iconic churches struggle to accommodate both worship and tourism
With tourism booming in southern Europe, iconic sacred sites struggle to find ways to accommodate both the faithful who come to pray and secular visitors.apnews.com
I do not understand what you mean by « the lack of knowledge of religion ». Do you mean that each person should understand the fundamentals of each religion , or, ?I qualified as an RE teacher but couldn't face the uphill struggle of getting the majority of my teaching colleagues to value the subject, let alone my students. The lack of knowledge of religion in its many forms in so many people is depressing to me. The lack of respect shown in so many places of worship is at least in part a result of that ignorance.
Can completely argue with that but given the Human nature probably wont work (esp with today's "Entitlement" culture....The simple solution to that is to close premises to non-worshippers during Mass, Communion, Jumʿah, Sema, Shacharit Shabbat, or, for my lot, whenever we make smoke and spill wine. None of these are spectator events...
That would be ideal but it is an unrealistic expectation given the huge diversity of religious belief and practice. Instead I would hope that people would make the effort to learn some of the most significant elements of the religious traditions which they are most likely to encounter at home and in their travels. Especially when they choose to travel a route with an explicitly Christian origin and focus. An example - a fairly rudimentary understanding of what a sacrament is within Catholicism might help to reduce the irreverent behaviour seen around the pilgrim mass. You do not have to share another's beliefs personally or have in-depth knowledge of another's faith to understand something of their significance and so accord them due respect. But I think it will test the forbearance of the moderators to go much further along this line of conversation given the forum rule on religious topics.Do you mean that each person should understand the fundamentals of each religion , or, ?
For me, yes, oh yes. If you do not understand the beliefs of another how can you ever understand them. I’ll risk this here, I’m aware of this forum’s rules. My faith is based in the entirety of nature- the fundamentals of earth, water, air, light are why we are here and they are everything in everywhere. The mother and the father and the change makers are all that there is and all that there is is them.I do not understand what you mean by « the lack of knowledge of religion ». Do you mean that each person should understand the fundamentals of each religion , or, ?
I disagree. Peg's hometown in 1900 had four Roman Catholic churches. They have since lost about a quarter of the population but three of the four parishes.I do not believe that the reality justifies the headline. The places are not under threat.
My notion was that the physical places, those referenced by the article, are not under threat. Those stones will long outlast their treasured bones. The long recorded reduction in congregation of the faithful has no apparent association with the migration of church from the absolute centre of civil life to its current position as, at best, peripheral. Hatch, Match & Dispatch and, of course, the Christmas Carol Concert.I disagree. Peg's hometown in 1900 had four Roman Catholic churches. They have since lost about a quarter of the population but three of the four parishes.
Churches across Western Europe and elsewhere suffer from a variety of threats and are not infrequently attacked, sadly.The places are not under threat.
(I’ve been to Pilgrim’s Mass on several occasions and have witnessed firsthand pilgrims/tourists ignoring requests to stop talking and taking photos - which was blatantly ignored as soon as the Botofumiero was lifted). I’d be curious to hear what ideas people have to address this problem.
i saw that already in 2000 in Santiago and it was shocking.The disruption and disrespect by tourists and others at the Pilgrim Mass in Santiago is not new.
I have observed it from 2009 and it continues today. From bus loads of tourists with camino scarfs around their necks talking and pushing to loud conversations during the blessing of the Eucharist mid Mass.
The disruption and disrespect by tourists and others at the Pilgrim Mass in Santiago is not new.
I have observed it from 2009 and it continues today. From bus loads of tourists with camino scarfs around their necks talking and pushing to loud conversations during the blessing of the Eucharist mid Mass.
Really that's why? At least in Europe, towns and cities with a famous cathedral like Barcelona, Rome, Paris, and Santiago have dozens of other churches. These churches may well have fewer religious services scheduled than the "celebrated churches" but that is, IMHO, not the reason why people on a one day visit or short stay are keen on going to worship at the "celebrated churches" instead.Worshippers, who often come because celebrated churches tend to have more services than regular parishes
An increasingly popular strategy is to have visitors and the faithful go separate ways – with services held in discrete places, visits barred at worship times, or altogether different entry queues.
I don't want to dwell on this either but it deserves being pointed out from time to time: Whole parishes from all over Spain travel by coach to the "Casa de Santiago", to the "House of Saint James", as the priest called it in several languages at midday today at the Misa del Peregrino. They are welcomed.I really do not want to go into a debate about this , seeing the content of religion but please let us not generalise that all " bus loads " of people with camino scarves aroud their neck are behaving in an obnoxious way. Many of them are most probably more pious than some of the so called hardcore and long distance footpilgrims.
This may give the impression as if there were a connection between the two sentences. There is none.But you are right Kathar1na when you say "It's an idea that will not fly with the Cathedral, I think." Money inevitably talks and the church as a whole is still a business with overheads and costs.
It is common practice in numerous cathedrals in Europe: The Cathedral of Santiago has this policy (at least they have it now, they may not have had it in the past), the Cathedral of Leon has it, Canterbury Cathedral has had it for many many years already, the Cathedral of Pisa has it, the Cathedral of Cologne has it - and that's just off the top of my headMy thoughts lean towards separate visiting times (ie: I’ve been to mosques that are explicitly closed to non-worshippers at certain times of the day).
This may give the impression as if there were a connection between the two sentences. There is none.
What I said was this: There will be no separate mass "events" for long distance foot pilgrims. Worshippers are worshippers with equal status, nobody is deemed to be more deserving of a "special" experience than their neighbour, whether they arrived at the church portal on foot, on a bike (just seen in the Netherlands), on a bus or in a car - that's how I usually get to church.
As I commented above, I agree that this is a threat. But that isn't the threat discussed in the article. I'm not sure that the major cathedrals and basilicas (or in the case of Hagia Sofia, mosques) as discussed in the article are really under threat.I disagree. Peg's hometown in 1900 had four Roman Catholic churches. They have since lost about a quarter of the population but three of the four parishes.
There can be something of the sort with organised large groups of religious foot pilgrims, such as on the occasion of the annual Paris to Chartres pilgrimage for example. Or very large organised groups of parish/diocesan Portuguese foot pilgrims to Fátima.There will be no separate mass "events" for long distance foot pilgrims.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?