- Time of past OR future Camino
- May to July, 2014
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Ahem, to be exact, eggs sunny-side-up are food tooAvoid eggs the way the Spanish like them, sunny-side up. The only confirmed case of food poisoning that I know of was from eggs. Every other stomach disorder could have been dehydration, virus, water, or food, and it is always hard to know which one it is.
What to avoid on the Camino? Especially when it gets hot?
One year a friend I was with got food poisoning from a bad bocadillo. One year I got it from a cream puff. The doctor in Leon told me to avoid any pastry with dairy (I suppose, other than baked in butter).
Does anyone have any thoughts?
I'm in La Coruna presently and did a double take when I saw the eggs were not refrigerated.Eggs in most European countries are not washed before being sold as they are in the US. The washing actually removes a protective coating, which makes it safe to store them unrefrigerated. Eggs that have been washed must be refrigerated to avoid contamination.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt
Living in & traveling in SA we never refrigerate eggs. I've only gotten sick from water at 2 road races in US because of all the chemicals & now I NEVER drink tea/Coffe on plane because water comes from holding tank. Lessons learned; my "lifestraw bottle" goes w/me.Eggs in most European countries are not washed before being sold as they are in the US. The washing actually removes a protective coating, which makes it safe to store them unrefrigerated. Eggs that have been washed must be refrigerated to avoid contamination.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt
What to avoid on the Camino? Especially when it gets hot?
One year a friend I was with got food poisoning from a bad bocadillo. One year I got it from a cream puff. The doctor in Leon told me to avoid any pastry with dairy (I suppose, other than baked in butter).
Does anyone have any thoughts?
We were in Oaxaca, Mexico 35 years ago for a month when my children were small. I was told to wash all fruits and vegetables in water with bleach before consuming and not to eat food from street vendors, particularly the lettuce and cabbage used in tacos. Supposedly field workers often defacated outside where they worked, which was mostly related to getting some type of stomach worms. Don't know if things have changed since then, but I definately see lots of produce grown in Mexico at our local grocery stores. I also don't really know if my warnings were fact or fiction.As a child, when ever I visited my grand larents in Mexico I would go, once, to the local fresh fruit juice store where I would order an horchata. I knew it would make me sick, but did not care. I would just swallow a few pills as soon as my stomach started gurgling. Ah, and some huaraches from the little old lady on the corner of a street near the house. Yum!
My father? Would have bleach added to his water! His vegetables washed in this water! Really?The rest of the houseld just used boiled or filtered water. No wonder mom would only take him to Mexico with us.
Spain? Never blinked.
I, too, have had no issues with tap water on three Caminos.I filled my water bottle from the tap in the albergues every day, and had no issues.
While on a bus tour in Italy five years ago I became terribly ill several hours after consuming a salad with anchovies on top. Or it could have been earlier from the hotel's breakfast buffet where I'd noticed the large bowl of fruit sitting out seemed rather old, but ate it anyway. When the D and V hit me in late afternoon, I was in a botanical garden with no bathroom available...I'll let you "imagine" how the remainder of this story unfolds!I, too, have had no issues with tap water on three Caminos.
All rather interesting - what I notice is that anyone who has suffered has thought back and then decided a certain thing caused it whereas the truth is that unless it is an obvious such as shellfish there is usually just no way of knowing.
Certainly not Spanish tap water, hundreds of thousands drink it each year along the Camino without problems - and it isn't always food or drink - for instance, you can go to a bar toilet, touching all the door and cubicle handles, and then inadvertently wipe your sweaty face before you wash your hands (if you can wash your hands) and that will do it, that will transfer an ecoli to your mouth.
I remember doing the same 'what caused it' thing two years ago at Rabanal del Camino, with three gastro-problem pilgrims coming in over two days (if I met three how many were there??) - one I had to take over the mountain to hospital in Ponferrada .. I asked where they had been, where they had stopped to eat or drink over the previous three days and they all had just the one connection - having iced fruit drinks at David's place "Casa de los Dioses" 2km before San Justo de la Vega, which is just before Astorga.
I think I had that one right but with others? Usually so difficult to know.
I always asked for ice cubes for my coke type drinks and fresh squeezed orange juice in hot weather...so refreshing all the way to the last sip!I really cannot get though all of the above postings about such and such theory.
What I can do is write the facts. Working in the hostelería trade I think the most likely probable for everyone, including those of us who live in Spain is undercooked eggs. (Botulism). Some non Spanish may find the food a bit more fatty/oily after being cooked, but that will not be the cause of food poisoning, just an upset stomach.
Ice cubes are good, drinking water fountains not to be used when it says it is agua non potable or words to that effect.
in dry weather I would certainly not swim or bath in rivers/streams. Waster water outflows have been know to heavily pollute these during dryer periods.
PS question is why would you want ice cubes in your single malt?
I think salmonella is the risk associated with eggs. It is not uncommon, and while very unpleasant, usually the victims recover fully within a week or so.undercooked eggs. (Botulism)
You hit the nail on the head, naive immune system.I do spend time in 'risky third world countries,' and have gotten my fair share of gastroenteritis.
From what? Who knows - as others have said it could be any number of things. Asking oneself why is a hopeless waste of energy.
But it does help to know that prevention mitigates a lot of the risk.
Besides the obvious things to consider (being particularly careful about water/ice and food, particularly if you have a 'naive' immune system - IOW, if you've never traveled away from your home country before) there are a two other things to consider that are important and/or helpful:
- Your hygiene is essential, as are mindfulness of where you're putting your hands and when. Hand washing very well (or using gel on your hands) before you eat is key. (@David gives a very good example of the consequences of not doing this - catching (or spreading) a gastro bug can come from a loo flush handle or a door handle as easily as food...)
- If I have to travel to places where hygiene is particularly questionable, I always take probiotics before I go for a week or so, and the entire time I'm there. Doing this has noticeably reduced the frequency of gastrointestinal illness. The probiotics can be pills by mouth, or yogurt, or both. But either must be live cultures. I'm told sauerkraut and miso paste also have 'gut friendly' Lactobacillus cultures as well. (Dr. Google will have more information - this is just my experience.)
I think salmonella is the risk associated with eggs. It is not uncommon, and while very unpleasant, usually the victims recover fully within a week or so.
Botulism is more rare and serious, and is more often a problem of improper home-canning.
You hit the nail on the head, naive immune system.
Anyone who travels to a new place has a more likely chance of getting sick as compared to being home or the locals.
I am not aware of a connection between motion sickness and stomach upsets caused by food/drink. They are very different problems."Do you get sick at sea?
I am not aware of a connection between motion sickness and stomach upsets caused by food/drink. They are very different problems.
I wondered if that might be the case, the first time you used it, but had more doubts the second time! Thanks for the clarification.Neither am I. Its a figure of speech......we professional travelers might say we are going to "sea" when really its an Air Canada 777 to Frankfurt with a reservation at a Hilton, rather than a boat!
I am not aware of a connection between motion sickness and stomach upsets caused by food/drink. They are very different problems.
But reality is that these are prescribed by GPs and travel clinics for people to take with them on their travel exactly for that purpose. Ie, prescribed in case, before any problems arise. Ever since Cipro has started being sold in higher doses, it has become a firstline go-to med for travellers to bring, just in case.With all due respect, Jill, I would not recommend antibiotics without knowing what you're dealing with - not only may it be a useless exercise (in the case of a viral infection), but that's what creates the conditions for antibiotic resistant bugs to come from, and proliferate.
All I am saying is that even if one walked into a doctor's office with a stomach bug, he or she would give out Cipro without collecting a sample to determine what, if anything, is growing, and then doing a resistance test. Even in hospital this is rarely done.Reality. Yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do (I'm no angel and used to do exactly what @JillGat suggested above, so I'm not preaching from on high about this...). Overuse of antibiotics clearly drives the development of resistance, and we are all responsible if we're the ones taking these drugs without knowing what we're doing.
Besides. Believe me: You. Really. Really. Don't. Want. A Cdiff Infection.
The link tells you more, and why it's NOT smart to take a broad-spectrum antibiotic for a gut infection as a knee-jerk response.
Remember living up here? In a public health system? They won't do them for a simple upset stomach. Can you imagine the backlog, the stress on the system, the cost? And they are also not going to leave you with nothing for 4-5 days until the results come back.Yes, well...true enough, Anemone.
But that doesn't make it smart or right. In fact, careless overprescribing is a huge part of the problem:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232501/
On the camino, as anywhere, you would likely need to ask to have a culture done.
I forgot to mention above, but @JillGat 's post reminded me: I make sure I have pepto-bismol. It's no good for anything drastic, but can work wonders if your gut is beginning to feel just a little 'off.' It's what I take to 'nip things in the bud.'
With all due respect, Jill, I would not recommend antibiotics without knowing what you're dealing with - not only may it be a useless exercise (in the case of a viral infection), but that's what creates the conditions for antibiotic resistant bugs to come from, and proliferate. I've met people who had to deal with Cdiff infections as a result of unprescribed antibiotic use in Asia, and that's way more serious than either food poisoning or a norovirus infection, unpleasant and dramatic as they can seem.
I also managed a clinical trial on CDiff in a hospital emergency department here. The specimens I collected were not pretty. Anyway, I know way more than anyone needs to know about CDiff. And, if you've already eaten and have a strong constitution, read about one of the most effective treatments for it: "Fecal transplantation."
Wow, how awful for you... several different times! You've read my above post regarding my Italy trip. It truly was one of two worst memories of illness (the second being from eating shrimp on a buffet in the states) of V and D along with such terrible cramping I could not stand up. Foolishly I did not seek medical assistance either time, but after 2 days slowly returned to normal.Wow, I'm ready to google that right now!
I'll wait, though, until I've told my narratives
I've gotten horribly ill in Mexico (eating fermented fruit and chicken soup with the little claw in it), but nothing in comparison to what happened in Vietnam and Cambodia--where I am sure I nearly died on one occasion.
I had gone out for a nightcap with a Scottish Physical therapist. Jack and I both had a little nip of Irish Cream. The next morning, I felt a bit off. Within two hours, I had V and D so intensely that I lost all fluids and began having severe cramping and blacking out.
Fortunately, the doctor down the little dirt road we lived on was available, and set up a drip iv for me in both legs and an arm--after giving me something to stop the projectile V and D. Yikes. Later, he gave me a sapphire pendant and thanked me for accepting treatment. Great neighbor, and I ended up being his daughter's teacher.
Then there was the time I ate shrimp in Ho Chi Minh City. That was dumb. Taxiing into P Penh, big problems. I barely made it into the hotel room. That was a Cipro situation and there was no doubt about that.
I've found in all my "developing country" travels I need to stop the V and D, then treat it with Cipro--we're not talking tummy ache or just a little case of traveller's diarrhea; it's usually a high drama "might be dying here". I've had Dengue Fever, Giardia, and all sorts of nasty stuff, for which--of course--antibiotics would be inappropriate.
Spain? never a problem, but never say never. I think that some of the advice here has been excellent: stay clean, look at the food being offered, see how the food is stored.
Peg got hit hard by food poisoning gotten from eggs that were in a soup. She wasn't the only one as we got the news there were others who ate the soup that night that came down with it. This news came from a pilgrim a few days later who caught up with us. There were two soups and she had a little of one and a lot of the other, the reverse for me. Just yesterday I heard Peg mentioning how good tasting the soup that did her in was.
The OP asked "What to avoid on the Camino?" and some responses said eggs. I should have been clearer in my post by saying something like "Eggs can be a hidden ingredient in some Spanish soups.I've done a number of foodborne outbreak investigations and, from my experience, one can't always be sure of the ingredient that was the culprit. It might not have been the eggs.
Many years ago I had a friend who refused to refrigerate her eggs from the grocery store. She said they tasted better without refrigeration. I lived near her for three years and to my knowledge she never got sick...just wondering, are eggs maybe getting a bad rap?I've done a number of foodborne outbreak investigations and, from my experience, one can't always be sure of the ingredient that was the culprit. It might not have been the eggs.
National Public Radio has an explanation on the care of eggs that different countries do. In the U.S. it is best to refrigerate store bought eggs as a natural coating has been washed away.Many years ago I had a friend who refused to refrigerate her eggs from the grocery store. She said they tasted better without refrigeration. I lived near her for three years and to my knowledge she never got sick...just wondering, are eggs maybe getting a bad rap?
Many years ago I had a friend who refused to refrigerate her eggs from the grocery store. She said they tasted better without refrigeration. I lived near her for three years and to my knowledge she never got sick...just wondering, are eggs maybe getting a bad rap?
Eggs are not washed in the U.S.. they are sanded in remove the poo. This is why store-bought eggs have such thin shells. Winter eggs probably came from the spring or summerEggs in most European countries are not washed before being sold as they are in the US. The washing actually removes a protective coating, which makes it safe to store them unrefrigerated. Eggs that have been washed must be refrigerated to avoid contamination.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt
I haven't seen chicken eggs on an unrefrigerated shelves in EU shops/malls/markets for years so I really don't know where you got this info but it definitely isn't correct in my opinion. Can you provide any link or such?... Now in Europe, unrefrigerated eggs are the norm;
...
I don't think there's an easy answer to your question. When it comes to identifying the source of a food poisoning or other GI illness, we often 'blame' the last meal we ate before feeling ill. However, some infections (e.g. campylobacter) have an incubation period of up to 72 hours, making it almost impossible to figure out the source of the problem.
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