arturo garcia
Pilgrim/Hospitalero/Mountain guide/Photographer
- Time of past OR future Camino
- French way (Dic. 2012), Portuguese way (Dic.2013) and now living on the Camino.
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A 67-year-old woman of North American nationality has been found in good condition in the area of Roncesvalles (Navarra). This was reported by the Foral Police of Navarra and the Fire Brigade in their social networks, who requested the collaboration of the public to find the pilgrim.
https://espanadiario.es/navarra/desaparecida-peregrina-roncesvalles
This is some story ... a 67 or 69 year old pilgrim presumably on a I’ve never done anything like this before and in a foreign country to boot ... SJPP to Roncesvalles ... a call to the emergency number 112 at 9 o’clock on a Friday evening ... a phone battery that dies during the call ... a cold night ... a really huge search operation with even a request to the public for help early the next morning ... around midday it turns out that the missing person spent the night in a hotel ... you couldn’t make this up.Oh wow.
Is that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again? The mind boggles although it’s a sensible thing to go back instead of forward when you are lost. Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP? I’m asking this mainly to understand what happened so that people are aware of it and can avoid something similar happening.After her emergency-call the missing pilgrim found her way back to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and slept in a hotel .....
Is that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again?
Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP?
North American is a nationality now?Found safe and sound:
Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.
Sorry if I offended anyone! I am definitely not monolingual, and my comment was triggered by the Spanish text referring to a person of "North American nationality". I for one did not assume that the person was a citizen of the USA.Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???
"Norteamericano / norteamericana" is the generic, and grammatically correct, term for an American. Colloquially, 'americano' is used a lot.
I know, I am trying to learn Spanish better. I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.
But, it's their language. They can call me whatever they want as long as the beer is cold and vino tinto plentiful.
Is it not possible that this pilgrim made the call and, as her mobile went dead immediately, that she assumed that the call hadn’t got through?
Given that she had to walk back to SJPdP before she could make another call, it might have been very late by the time she booked into the hotel. Presumably she would have been exhausted, both mentally and physically.
She was probably asleep until quite late on the following day.
The wonderful response and the tremendous effort that was put into finding a pilgrim, in her late 60s and possibly benighted on the mountain, was a huge waste of precious resources, but isn’t it possible that the peregrina had no idea that simply calling 112 would have initiated this selfless response?
Especially as she mightn’t have even been aware that the call had registered.
This thread is important in that it is very useful in an informative sense .... and it might give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact. Perhaps it could be the impetus for a ‘sticky’?
But please ... imagine if this had been you, on your first Camino, reading these comments
Judge not, lest ye be judged .... ?
There is the word estadounidense. [Edit: the webpage allows you to hear that spoken.]I know, I am trying to learn Spanish better. I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.
Fair enough. Yet, it is a question of good translation and knowing the given context of words in both languages. Out of curiosity, I went to Google Translate. Type norteamericano and you get North American. Type nacionalidad norteamericano and you get American nationality. Impressive.Sorry if I offended anyone! I am definitely not monolingual, and my comment was triggered by the Spanish text referring to a person of "North American nationality". I for one did not assume that the person was a citizen of the USA.
There is the word estadounidense.
Check out the translation for "soy estadounidense" on SpanishDict!
Find out why SpanishDict is the web's most popular, free Spanish translation, dictionary, and conjugation site.www.spanishdict.com
I was going to post the same. A citizen of the United States - Estados Unidos in Spanish is estadounidense, and is my answer when people ask my nationality.There is the word estadounidense.
Check out the translation for "soy estadounidense" on SpanishDict!
Find out why SpanishDict is the web's most popular, free Spanish translation, dictionary, and conjugation site.www.spanishdict.com
I can. But terribly. The Spanish hear that and then know they they are going to have to slow down talking to me. By the way, the webpage allows you to hear that spoken.Now say it out loud....
Trying to analyse and understand why something went wrong is not judgement.This thread is important in that it is very useful in an informative sense .... and it might give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact. Perhaps it could be the impetus for a ‘sticky’?
But please ... imagine if this had been you, on your first Camino, reading these comments
Judge not, lest ye be judged .... ?
Trying to analyse and understand why something went wrong
BUGGEROOPS baby oops.... one day they will send a bill for this .... and rightly so
The missing pilgrim who had set in motion an extensive search party was sleeping in a hotel.
https://navarra.elespanol.com/artic...ana-llamada-bateria/20190608142941268259.html
Officers of the Foral Police and the Guardia Civil, personnel of the EVYSS and the Forest Guard, firefighters of Burguete Park and Cordovilla, volunteer firefighters of Valcarlos, DYA, Red Cross, the helicopter of the Government of Navarre, members of the rescue dog group... All this extensive assistance had resumed this Saturday at six o'clock in the morning the work of searching for an American pilgrim who had been missing in the area of Valcarlos since late Friday evening.
The last news from 69-year-old Katheleen Mary, an American, had arrived at 9 p.m. [ on Friday ] when the woman made a call from her mobile phone to the SOS Navarra emergency number just before running out of battery.
She had left San Juan de Pie de Puerto on the same day and her intention was to reach Roncesvalles, but the pilgrim had not arrived there and at the end of the day the extensive search party took off trying to find any trace of her whereabouts.
Not only had all the aforementioned personnel joined in the search for this woman, but even the Foral Police requested through social networks the help of the public in trying to find her and provide some information that could give some clue about her location.
But while all those searchers were busy, among them many volunteers, Katheleen Mary slept in a hotel, oblivious to the work of the emergency services that were struggling to find her whereabouts.
At 2 p.m., the Instituto Armado reported that the Pilgrim had been found "in good health", a message similar to the one published by the Foral Police on their Twitter social network, thanking the citizens for their collaboration.
Shortly afterwards, the Government of Navarre confirmed that the American woman had spent the night in a hotel.
Never mind her nationality! She did wrong by not bothering to call the search off.Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???
That includes the government on Navarra which has published rescue rates on a website. Figure at least 35€ per person per hour.Some people have expressed the opinion that this foolish and thoughtless woman should be required to pay for her rescue attempt.
In the mountains on a day hike that was turning into a night hike too there was bad cell service. I found that I finally had service but I couldn't get Peg but I called the emergency number. They were not happy that I was calling to say that there was no emergency (I could have spent the night comfortably) until I said that I was calling so no rescue would be attempted if they got a later call (ahem, Peg). Later I found out that procedure was that they would do nothing until noon anyway.Blimey. I didn't know about ringing 112 again to confirm all was now ok, even tho common sense would probably suggest it.
So now we should include that direction absolutely every time we advise folks about the emergency phone no. Every time!
Regards and thanks,
Gerard
People have made this suggestion because she apparently did not call again to say that she was safe back in SJPP. She may not even have been aware that her call initiated such a huge search operation with so many services involved. When you call 112 in Europe, you get connected to the national police. Her initial call went to the Spanish police but she then returned to SJPP where it would have gone to the French police. Had she continued to Roncesvalles and stayed in a hotel there her presence would have been detected more quickly than it did with her staying in France. A few odd factors came together here.Some people have expressed the opinion that this foolish and thoughtless woman should be required to pay for her rescue attempt.
I have to strongly disagree for the following reasons.
That includes the government on Navarra which has published rescue rates on a website. Figure at least 35€ per person per hour.
Use Chrome to get a translation of chapter vii, article 51 appearing just below this webpage anchor:
Yes if she want back to SJPP she could not have been in SpainIs that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again? The mind boggles although it’s a sensible thing to go back instead of forward when you are lost. Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP? I’m asking this mainly to understand what happened so that people are aware of it and can avoid something similar happening.
Many find it hard to believe but people can get seriously lost although it is very rare. That’s why I think it is useful to have some kind of map, even if it is just the one handed out by the pilgrims office.
Hope she ring all the rescue services they were looking for her and say thank you.Found safe and sound:
There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.Glad to hear that she is safe. In the first article, she called 112, but then her battery went dead. I carry a portable cellphone charger with me. When it comes to what to plug in first, it is always the charger. I can then charge other things on the go. Also, if it goes off wandering on its own, it is less important and easier to replace than the cellphone.
There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.Desaparecida una peregrina norteamericana que realizaba el Camino de Santiago
La Policía Foral ha informado de la desaparición de una peregrina, de 67 años y nacionalidad norteamericana, que salió este viernes de San Juan de ...www.20minutos.es
To muddy the waters, the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" or "United Mexican States," so, technically, someone from Mexico can also be called "estadounidense." "Norteamericano" is generally restricted to identifying a person from the USA because "canadiense" exists for someone from Canada and "mexicano" for someone from Mexico. Of course, "americano" refers to anyone from any of the countries in the Americas: North, Central, or South America.I was going to post the same. A citizen of the United States - Estados Unidos in Spanish is estadounidense, and is my answer when people ask my nationality.
I find this thread a bit disturbing actually. I live on the island of Kauai in the U.S. and know how much our first responders, Kauai Life Guard, search and rescue, police, fire, etc., work to save people's lives when they find themselves in dangerous situations; for the families of these brave and dedicated men and women, it is really upsetting when their loved ones have to go out in dangerous conditions and save people who blatantly go into restricted zones, trespass, ignore all of the signage about falls, rip tides, sneaker waves, etc. This situation, however, is not that; this woman was not doing anything unlawful. The infrastructure of the Camino plans for these types of events both in talent and financially. Yes, it is horrendously expensive to put a bird in the air or send out all of the responders that blessedly went, but it is their job that I am sure they are dedicated to and love. I am also sure that while it might have been frustrating for them to find out that this woman was safe and sound while they were looking for her, they also were likely feeling relief and gratitude that a family somewhere in the world was not going to receive tragic news.
I would like to acknowledge the comments of Gary Martin and others who have given this woman the benefit of the doubt, there seems to be a lot of people quick to make judgments based on media coverage and how they themselves would respond. First, at 67 this woman is going to be more physically inclined to suffer both physical and mental stress in the situation she found herself; was it rainy that day or quite warm? Had she been walking for 8 hours or more, had she run out of water or failed to drink enough? If she were dehydrated she could have become confused in her decision making, she also could have been suffering from a good headache, she likely was afraid (and as noted, she may have been monolingual), all or any combination of these three are enough to make a person less rational or responsive than they normally would be. I can see her mantra for staying upright being, please lord let me not fall off a cliff, and when she got herself to a hotel and if she was feeling very ill and confused it is not out of the realm of possibility that the call she made hours earlier might no longer be registering.
I am 58 and will be doing this walk next April on my birthday, my biggest fear is becoming disoriented or trapped in sudden weather on the Pyrenees. When I was in my late 40s and still in treatment for breast cancer I did one of the 60-mile awareness walks, on the first day after 22 miles I had become dehydrated and loopy; fortunately those around me noticed I was acting strange (singing random songs out loud and laughing to myself) and encouraged me along to an ER, where I received fluids and rest. It comes on you without notice and then you are compromised in thinking; I can only imagine what someone could experience at higher altitudes, older, and alone.
Is it possible that this woman was/is an insensitive dingbat? Anything is possible, but more likely she is an older woman who is feeling beat up and thoroughly embarrassed by her misadventure. The beauty of the Camino I have embraced from afar is the delight of supporting and being supported by strangers, the new relationships, and the inner journey. This story actually has a happy ending regardless of the route it took.
I hope that you are not describing the way you are preparing for the Camino. I also hope that if you have to call the emergency services, which heaven forbid, you have the awareness to call them off if you no longer need them. Since no one pays for an entrance ticket for the Camino, the efforts of the Spanish regions to provide safety and help for those who need it should not be taken lightly. Don't waste other people's tax money., their time or their lives.
A gentle reminder: If the Government of Navarra decides to charge this woman with the costs of the chopper, they are perfectly within the law.
You are right,one can not ring the services,and then no ringing them back to said that she was in an hotelI hope that you are not describing the way you are preparing for the Camino. I also hope that if you have to call the emergency services, which heaven forbid, you have the awareness to call them off if you no longer need them. Since no one pays for an entrance ticket for the Camino, the efforts of the Spanish regions to provide safety and help for those who need it should not be taken lightly. Don't waste other people's tax money., their time or their lives.
A gentle reminder: If the Government of Navarra decides to charge this woman with the costs of the chopper, they are perfectly within the law.
To muddy the waters, the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" or "United Mexican States," so, technically, someone from Mexico can also be called "estadounidense." "Norteamericano" is generally restricted to identifying a person from the USA because "canadiense" exists for someone from Canada and "mexicano" for someone from Mexico. Of course, "americano" refers to anyone from any of the countries in the Americas: North, Central, or South America.
I have lived in Mexico for 12 years and most educated Mexicans consider the USA, Canada and Mexico as the three countries which form "North America," in contrast to "Central America" and "South America." They do refer to USA citizens as Estadounidense (took me about a year to be able to pronounce that word comfortablySome Mexicanos consider themselves Norteamericanos. They consider that limiting the use of the term to citizens of The United States of America is geographical imperialism. I’ve never heard a Mexican use the term Estadiounidense to refer to him/herself. Mexicano - si!
Before 1492, they all did! It took some invaders speaking Spanish, Portuguese, and English (among others) to draw some artificial borders and divide the people. As their reward, the invaders created "Hispanic" peoples, a designation as labored as "Indians" for the 573 Federally recognized Indian tribes!Some Mexicanos consider themselves Norteamericanos.
Hope you are well now!There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.
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