A donation to the forum removes ads for you, and supports Ivar in his work running it

Advertisement

Luggage Transfer Correos

Good News. One Pilgrim Missing Between SJPP and Roncesvalles is found today!

Camino Badges

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017

CAJohn

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Sept/Oct 2019
Glad to hear that she is safe. In the first article, she called 112, but then her battery went dead. I carry a portable cellphone charger with me. When it comes to what to plug in first, it is always the charger. I can then charge other things on the go. Also, if it goes off wandering on its own, it is less important and easier to replace than the cellphone.
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
OOPS baby oops.... one day they will send a bill for this .... and rightly so 😮😮

The missing pilgrim who had set in motion an extensive search party was sleeping in a hotel.

https://navarra.elespanol.com/articulo/sucesos/peregrina-desaparecida-hotel-durmiendo-norteamericana-llamada-bateria/20190608142941268259.html


Officers of the Foral Police and the Guardia Civil, personnel of the EVYSS and the Forest Guard, firefighters of Burguete Park and Cordovilla, volunteer firefighters of Valcarlos, DYA, Red Cross, the helicopter of the Government of Navarre, members of the rescue dog group... All this extensive assistance had resumed this Saturday at six o'clock in the morning the work of searching for an American pilgrim who had been missing in the area of Valcarlos since late Friday evening.

The last news from 69-year-old Katheleen Mary, an American, had arrived at 9 p.m. [ on Friday ] when the woman made a call from her mobile phone to the SOS Navarra emergency number just before running out of battery.

She had left San Juan de Pie de Puerto on the same day and her intention was to reach Roncesvalles, but the pilgrim had not arrived there and at the end of the day the extensive search party took off trying to find any trace of her whereabouts.

Not only had all the aforementioned personnel joined in the search for this woman, but even the Foral Police requested through social networks the help of the public in trying to find her and provide some information that could give some clue about her location.

But while all those searchers were busy, among them many volunteers, Katheleen Mary slept in a hotel, oblivious to the work of the emergency services that were struggling to find her whereabouts.

At 2 p.m., the Instituto Armado reported that the Pilgrim had been found "in good health", a message similar to the one published by the Foral Police on their Twitter social network, thanking the citizens for their collaboration.

Shortly afterwards, the Government of Navarre confirmed that the American woman had spent the night in a hotel.
 

Ianinam

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2013 / CP 2018
Hospitalera at Roncesvalles:
2015/2016/2017/2018/2019
In Roncesvalles we've seen things like this many times before; pilgrims calling 112 because they are lost, but after their call they find their way, find a bed, go to sleep and 'forget' to sign out ......

In the meantime all the rescue teams have started their activities: the bomberos of Burguete and Valcarlos are running up and down the mountain, the rescue-teams with dogs are trying to find the lost pilgrim, the helicopter takes off, the guardia civil is alarmed, everybody is worried about the lost pilgrim ......

So please, please, if you ever are in trouble, if you have to call 112: don't forget to call 112 again in case you are safe! In case you make an unnecessary call to 112 you can expect a hugh bill!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
This is some story ... a 67 or 69 year old pilgrim presumably on a I’ve never done anything like this before and in a foreign country to boot ... SJPP to Roncesvalles ... a call to the emergency number 112 at 9 o’clock on a Friday evening ... a phone battery that dies during the call ... a cold night ... a really huge search operation with even a request to the public for help early the next morning ... around midday it turns out that the missing person spent the night in a hotel ... you couldn’t make this up.
 
Last edited:

Ianinam

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2013 / CP 2018
Hospitalera at Roncesvalles:
2015/2016/2017/2018/2019
The search by the bomberos started immediately after the call, in the dark. I always have a deep respect for these well-trained men who know every stone and every tree in the mountains, and run up and down the mountain, heavy loaded with rescue equipment.
The next morning at 6 am the helicopter and the dogs rescue-team started their search for the missing pilgrim.

After her emergency-call the missing pilgrim found her way back to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and slept in a hotel .....
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
After her emergency-call the missing pilgrim found her way back to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and slept in a hotel .....
Is that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again? The mind boggles although it’s a sensible thing to go back instead of forward when you are lost. Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP? I’m asking this mainly to understand what happened so that people are aware of it and can avoid something similar happening.

Many find it hard to believe but people can get seriously lost although it is very rare. That’s why I think it is useful to have some kind of map, even if it is just the one handed out by the pilgrims office.
 
Last edited:

Ianinam

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2013 / CP 2018
Hospitalera at Roncesvalles:
2015/2016/2017/2018/2019
Is that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again?
That is what I read in a report written by one of the hospitaleros on duty at the moment.

Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP?
As I understood, the battery of her phone was already dead before she could tell where she was; this made the search for her even more difficult.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
"Norteamericano / norteamericana" is the generic, and grammatically correct, term for an American. Colloquially, 'americano' is used a lot.

I know, I am trying to learn Spanish better. I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.

But, it's their language. They can call me whatever they want as long as the beer is cold and vino tinto plentiful.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.
Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???
 

GraemeHall

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances: St-Jean-PdP - Santiago dC - Muxía - Fisterra (Aug 2017 and March/April 2018)
Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???
Sorry if I offended anyone! I am definitely not monolingual, and my comment was triggered by the Spanish text referring to a person of "North American nationality". I for one did not assume that the person was a citizen of the USA.
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
Is it not possible that this pilgrim made the call and, as her mobile went dead immediately, that she assumed that the call hadn’t got through?

Given that she had to walk back to SJPdP before she could make another call, it might have been very late by the time she booked into the hotel. Presumably she would have been exhausted, both mentally and physically.
She was probably asleep until quite late on the following day.

The wonderful response and the tremendous effort that was put into finding a pilgrim, in her late 60s and possibly benighted on the mountain, was a huge waste of precious resources, but isn’t it possible that the peregrina had no idea that simply calling 112 would have initiated this selfless response?
Especially as she mightn’t have even been aware that the call had registered.

This thread is important in that it is very useful in an informative sense .... and it might give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact. Perhaps it could be the impetus for a ‘sticky’?

But please ... imagine if this had been you, on your first Camino, reading these comments 🙁
Judge not, lest ye be judged .... ?
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
"Norteamericano / norteamericana" is the generic, and grammatically correct, term for an American. Colloquially, 'americano' is used a lot.

I know, I am trying to learn Spanish better. I have wondered why they don't differentiate between US Americans or Canadian North Americans.

But, it's their language. They can call me whatever they want as long as the beer is cold and vino tinto plentiful.

Because Canada is called Canada :cool: and Spaniards have a great awareness of all countries in South America, so the distinction of North America makes sense.
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
Is it not possible that this pilgrim made the call and, as her mobile went dead immediately, that she assumed that the call hadn’t got through?

Given that she had to walk back to SJPdP before she could make another call, it might have been very late by the time she booked into the hotel. Presumably she would have been exhausted, both mentally and physically.
She was probably asleep until quite late on the following day.

The wonderful response and the tremendous effort that was put into finding a pilgrim, in her late 60s and possibly benighted on the mountain, was a huge waste of precious resources, but isn’t it possible that the peregrina had no idea that simply calling 112 would have initiated this selfless response?
Especially as she mightn’t have even been aware that the call had registered.

This thread is important in that it is very useful in an informative sense .... and it might give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact. Perhaps it could be the impetus for a ‘sticky’?

But please ... imagine if this had been you, on your first Camino, reading these comments 🙁
Judge not, lest ye be judged .... ?

She did make that call and they knew her name. No need for further assumptions.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Last edited:

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Sorry if I offended anyone! I am definitely not monolingual, and my comment was triggered by the Spanish text referring to a person of "North American nationality". I for one did not assume that the person was a citizen of the USA.
Fair enough. Yet, it is a question of good translation and knowing the given context of words in both languages. Out of curiosity, I went to Google Translate. Type norteamericano and you get North American. Type nacionalidad norteamericano and you get American nationality. Impressive.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
'Estadounidense' means roughly "...one from the United States..." It might be technically correct, but 'Americano' rolls off the tongue easier. When people ask, I always reply "Flor-ee-dah" (Spanish pronunciation for Florida). As Florida was twice a Spanish possession, this always registers. I let others sort out nationality.

I have learned it is better to associate with a former Spanish possession in the New World, than to claim to be American right off the bat. Too many people, globally, are very touchy these days. I do not want to become their lightning rod. When I leave the US, I also leave most all politics behind...I find it refreshing...

PERIOD!
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2 - 2016 & 2017, El Norte - Irun to Vilalba 2018

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
This thread is important in that it is very useful in an informative sense .... and it might give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact. Perhaps it could be the impetus for a ‘sticky’?

But please ... imagine if this had been you, on your first Camino, reading these comments 🙁
Judge not, lest ye be judged .... ?
Trying to analyse and understand why something went wrong is not judgement.

And I don’t hope that future pilgrims will learn from this as the major lesson hat they can always call 112 and rescue will arrive when they manage to get lost. Rather I would hope that they try to acquire a realistic idea of how long it will take them to walk to Roncesvalles within their own capabilities, how they can make sure that they do not walk for a long time in the wrong direction and that they know how to operate their smartphones so that it will last for a day.
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
Trying to analyse and understand why something went wrong
I thought this was what I was doing.

Imagine, if you will, turning up at a hotel sometime around midnight ... possibly later ... exhausted, and in some distress, and not speaking of your ordeal ... including the fact that your mobile had cut out whilst you were speaking on 112.
Then imagine that you were not proficient in several EU languages. Or, that in your distress, you couldn’t communicate the reason for your sudden appearance at that time of night.
That, possibly, your words had somehow got ‘lost in translation’?

No one of us knows exactly what happened ... we were not there ... which is why we cannot make any assumptions.

I reiterate my my statement that this might “give hope to a lost and frightened pilgrim in the future, whose phone dies at the moment of making contact.”

Please, @Kathar1na, don’t twist/reinterpret my words to make them mean something quite other than what I clearly intended them to mean.

One more thing:
May you never ....
 

Terry W

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
August 2017
April 2018
April 2019
OOPS baby oops.... one day they will send a bill for this .... and rightly so 😮😮

The missing pilgrim who had set in motion an extensive search party was sleeping in a hotel.

https://navarra.elespanol.com/articulo/sucesos/peregrina-desaparecida-hotel-durmiendo-norteamericana-llamada-bateria/20190608142941268259.html


Officers of the Foral Police and the Guardia Civil, personnel of the EVYSS and the Forest Guard, firefighters of Burguete Park and Cordovilla, volunteer firefighters of Valcarlos, DYA, Red Cross, the helicopter of the Government of Navarre, members of the rescue dog group... All this extensive assistance had resumed this Saturday at six o'clock in the morning the work of searching for an American pilgrim who had been missing in the area of Valcarlos since late Friday evening.

The last news from 69-year-old Katheleen Mary, an American, had arrived at 9 p.m. [ on Friday ] when the woman made a call from her mobile phone to the SOS Navarra emergency number just before running out of battery.

She had left San Juan de Pie de Puerto on the same day and her intention was to reach Roncesvalles, but the pilgrim had not arrived there and at the end of the day the extensive search party took off trying to find any trace of her whereabouts.

Not only had all the aforementioned personnel joined in the search for this woman, but even the Foral Police requested through social networks the help of the public in trying to find her and provide some information that could give some clue about her location.

But while all those searchers were busy, among them many volunteers, Katheleen Mary slept in a hotel, oblivious to the work of the emergency services that were struggling to find her whereabouts.

At 2 p.m., the Instituto Armado reported that the Pilgrim had been found "in good health", a message similar to the one published by the Foral Police on their Twitter social network, thanking the citizens for their collaboration.

Shortly afterwards, the Government of Navarre confirmed that the American woman had spent the night in a hotel.
BUGGER 🤢🤢
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I should let this go but ... I did not speculate why the person did not contact the police or why she didn’t ask someone to contact the police when she arrived at the hotel or how she felt or when she arrived at the hotel because that has not been reported.

I addressed known facts: late at night, lost her way, flat battery. Btw, these are all things I’m constantly aware of: at what time the sun sets, how long it will take me to get to my destination from now on, and roughly where I am. The batteries in my current iPhone last a lot longer than when I started years ago but I still make sure that background apps are switched off and many of my usual settings are changed in order to conserve as much energy as possible during the day’s walk and that the batteries are fully charged when I start.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances. 2001
Via de la plata 2008
Arles -Piemonte-Frances-Cee 2014
(Bastan-Francés) 2019
Some people have expressed the opinion that this foolish and thoughtless woman should be required to pay for her rescue attempt.
I have to strongly disagree for the following reasons.
If people find themselves in a dangerous situation because of poor judgment or bad luck they will make a bad situation worse by delaying a call for help for financial reasons. This will result in unnecessary deaths.
The people that I have known that have been connected with rescue operations take a great deal of pride in using their special skills to help people. They are not doing this for the money. An unnecessary call out can be an annoyance for the old hands but good training for the newbies.
If this lady suspected she had called out for rescue squad she should have called it off but if you ,through bad judgment or poor planning managed to become exhausted and terrified enough to call for help you might not do your best thinking after finding your way back in the dark.
My favorite part of the Camino Frances‘s meeting all the people that have no idea what are getting into.
By and large they get it done. But it takes courage to leave that comfort zone.
Gary
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. Next: Gd St Bernard to Rome
Norteamericano is a synonym for US American in Spanish for the same reasons that, in other languages, English means a British national or Hollandais denotes a national from anywhere in the Netherlands and not from a specific province. Writers and readers understand. Those who translate (like, thankfully, @MinaKamina did) for those who are monolingual, sometimes overlook nuances in one language or the other. How many of you didn’t understand that it meant US American and not Canadian???
Never mind her nationality! She did wrong by not bothering to call the search off.
She called for help but in the end was ok (thank God). She should have made that last call, when she was safe.
No excuses, sorry.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Some people have expressed the opinion that this foolish and thoughtless woman should be required to pay for her rescue attempt.
That includes the government on Navarra which has published rescue rates on a website. Figure at least 35€ per person per hour.

Use Chrome to get a translation of chapter vii, article 51 appearing just below this webpage anchor:
 

gerardcarey

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF x2, CPL
Blimey. I didn't know about ringing 112 again to confirm all was now ok, even tho common sense would probably suggest it.
So now we should include that direction absolutely every time we advise folks about the emergency phone no. Every time!
Regards and thanks,
Gerard
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Blimey. I didn't know about ringing 112 again to confirm all was now ok, even tho common sense would probably suggest it.
So now we should include that direction absolutely every time we advise folks about the emergency phone no. Every time!
Regards and thanks,
Gerard
In the mountains on a day hike that was turning into a night hike too there was bad cell service. I found that I finally had service but I couldn't get Peg but I called the emergency number. They were not happy that I was calling to say that there was no emergency (I could have spent the night comfortably) until I said that I was calling so no rescue would be attempted if they got a later call (ahem, Peg). Later I found out that procedure was that they would do nothing until noon anyway.

I made it out fine but late with Peg at the trailhead with car lights on. She was close to making a call.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Some people have expressed the opinion that this foolish and thoughtless woman should be required to pay for her rescue attempt.
I have to strongly disagree for the following reasons.
People have made this suggestion because she apparently did not call again to say that she was safe back in SJPP. She may not even have been aware that her call initiated such a huge search operation with so many services involved. When you call 112 in Europe, you get connected to the national police. Her initial call went to the Spanish police but she then returned to SJPP where it would have gone to the French police. Had she continued to Roncesvalles and stayed in a hotel there her presence would have been detected more quickly than it did with her staying in France. A few odd factors came together here.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I understand that some people call emergency numbers more quickly than others do. We don’t know any more details in this case. Others don’t even call when it is an emergency: I once returned to my house at night to discover that there had been a burglary. I didn’t think this was sufficient reason to block the emergency line. So I tried to find the regular phone number of the next police station and when there was just a recorded message about their opening hours I drove to the station only to find that it was closed during the night. When I used their speakerphone I got connected to a remote service and I was told that it was indeed an emergency and I had to drive home and call 112. 😊

The emergency services in the Roncesvalles area have to go out for a lot of calls that would not be made elsewhere. Kudos to their work and their commitment.
 
Last edited:

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
A more recent report by a local newspaper that sheds a different light on the whereabaouts after the call to the emergency line between 9 pm on Friday and midday on Saturday when the search ended. Sounds more credible to me than a return to SJPP ... I wonder now whether she was even lost. If you are not a strong walker or someone with little walking experience and no longer in your prime you need to leave SJJP early in the morning.

 
Last edited:

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
In view of the recent newspaper article, here’s an idea: Instead of using a name on the Camino that you think sounds “easier” on Spanish ears - an advice I’ve seen on the forum and that I thought was brilliant up to now - maybe it’s better to stick to your actual first and last name and learn instead how to say the letters of the alphabet in Spanish. Fairly easy to learn in my experience ... 🙃

So I wonder whether the most likely course of events was that the person was close enough to Roncesvalles when she placed the 112 call that she arrived there before the first responder crew started to search the trails and the Spanish hotel & albergue registration system about which we hear so much did not help to locate her in time? There was apparently a mixup with her surname (further explanation in the recent newspaper article).
 
Last edited:

ISABEL linares

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
camino frances,camino del norte,camino frances
Is that correct - she stayed the night in SJPP again? The mind boggles although it’s a sensible thing to go back instead of forward when you are lost. Where in the area was this person when the emergency call to 112 was made at 9 pm (and received in Spain - which doesn’t mean that she was on Spanish territory!) and how long did it take to get back to SJPP? I’m asking this mainly to understand what happened so that people are aware of it and can avoid something similar happening.

Many find it hard to believe but people can get seriously lost although it is very rare. That’s why I think it is useful to have some kind of map, even if it is just the one handed out by the pilgrims office.
Yes if she want back to SJPP she could not have been in Spain
 

Carel5

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 Mozarabe: Almeria - Merida
2018 Francigena: GSB - Massa
(2019) Francigena: Massa - Roma
In New Hampshire I once called the emergency services while my telephone was almost dead, as we were lost in the upcoming darkness. The operator told us to stay on the same place as they could see my exact location in the few minutes that were left in the phone. After 3 hours two members of NH Game and Fish arrived to guide us back to the parking lot. If you move away from the location from where you call 112, you make it a difficult search for the rescue workers.
 

Mudcrone

Mudcrone
Camino(s) past & future
2012-2018 Frances, Via de la Plata, Portugues Central and Seaside, Norte
Glad to hear that she is safe. In the first article, she called 112, but then her battery went dead. I carry a portable cellphone charger with me. When it comes to what to plug in first, it is always the charger. I can then charge other things on the go. Also, if it goes off wandering on its own, it is less important and easier to replace than the cellphone.
There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.
 

Mudcrone

Mudcrone
Camino(s) past & future
2012-2018 Frances, Via de la Plata, Portugues Central and Seaside, Norte
There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.
 
Camino(s) past & future
April 13, (2014)
I find this thread a bit disturbing actually. I live on the island of Kauai in the U.S. and know how much our first responders, Kauai Life Guard, search and rescue, police, fire, etc., work to save people's lives when they find themselves in dangerous situations; for the families of these brave and dedicated men and women, it is really upsetting when their loved ones have to go out in dangerous conditions and save people who blatantly go into restricted zones, trespass, ignore all of the signage about falls, rip tides, sneaker waves, etc. This situation, however, is not that; this woman was not doing anything unlawful. The infrastructure of the Camino plans for these types of events both in talent and financially. Yes, it is horrendously expensive to put a bird in the air or send out all of the responders that blessedly went, but it is their job that I am sure they are dedicated to and love. I am also sure that while it might have been frustrating for them to find out that this woman was safe and sound while they were looking for her, they also were likely feeling relief and gratitude that a family somewhere in the world was not going to receive tragic news.

I would like to acknowledge the comments of Gary Martin and others who have given this woman the benefit of the doubt, there seems to be a lot of people quick to make judgments based on media coverage and how they themselves would respond. First, at 67 this woman is going to be more physically inclined to suffer both physical and mental stress in the situation she found herself; was it rainy that day or quite warm? Had she been walking for 8 hours or more, had she run out of water or failed to drink enough? If she were dehydrated she could have become confused in her decision making, she also could have been suffering from a good headache, she likely was afraid (and as noted, she may have been monolingual), all or any combination of these three are enough to make a person less rational or responsive than they normally would be. I can see her mantra for staying upright being, please lord let me not fall off a cliff, and when she got herself to a hotel and if she was feeling very ill and confused it is not out of the realm of possibility that the call she made hours earlier might no longer be registering.

I am 58 and will be doing this walk next April on my birthday, my biggest fear is becoming disoriented or trapped in sudden weather on the Pyrenees. When I was in my late 40s and still in treatment for breast cancer I did one of the 60-mile awareness walks, on the first day after 22 miles I had become dehydrated and loopy; fortunately those around me noticed I was acting strange (singing random songs out loud and laughing to myself) and encouraged me along to an ER, where I received fluids and rest. It comes on you without notice and then you are compromised in thinking; I can only imagine what someone could experience at higher altitudes, older, and alone.

Is it possible that this woman was/is an insensitive dingbat? Anything is possible, but more likely she is an older woman who is feeling beat up and thoroughly embarrassed by her misadventure. The beauty of the Camino I have embraced from afar is the delight of supporting and being supported by strangers, the new relationships, and the inner journey. This story actually has a happy ending regardless of the route it took.
 

harmsdg

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés (2018)
I was going to post the same. A citizen of the United States - Estados Unidos in Spanish is estadounidense, and is my answer when people ask my nationality.
To muddy the waters, the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" or "United Mexican States," so, technically, someone from Mexico can also be called "estadounidense." "Norteamericano" is generally restricted to identifying a person from the USA because "canadiense" exists for someone from Canada and "mexicano" for someone from Mexico. Of course, "americano" refers to anyone from any of the countries in the Americas: North, Central, or South America.
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
I find this thread a bit disturbing actually. I live on the island of Kauai in the U.S. and know how much our first responders, Kauai Life Guard, search and rescue, police, fire, etc., work to save people's lives when they find themselves in dangerous situations; for the families of these brave and dedicated men and women, it is really upsetting when their loved ones have to go out in dangerous conditions and save people who blatantly go into restricted zones, trespass, ignore all of the signage about falls, rip tides, sneaker waves, etc. This situation, however, is not that; this woman was not doing anything unlawful. The infrastructure of the Camino plans for these types of events both in talent and financially. Yes, it is horrendously expensive to put a bird in the air or send out all of the responders that blessedly went, but it is their job that I am sure they are dedicated to and love. I am also sure that while it might have been frustrating for them to find out that this woman was safe and sound while they were looking for her, they also were likely feeling relief and gratitude that a family somewhere in the world was not going to receive tragic news.

I would like to acknowledge the comments of Gary Martin and others who have given this woman the benefit of the doubt, there seems to be a lot of people quick to make judgments based on media coverage and how they themselves would respond. First, at 67 this woman is going to be more physically inclined to suffer both physical and mental stress in the situation she found herself; was it rainy that day or quite warm? Had she been walking for 8 hours or more, had she run out of water or failed to drink enough? If she were dehydrated she could have become confused in her decision making, she also could have been suffering from a good headache, she likely was afraid (and as noted, she may have been monolingual), all or any combination of these three are enough to make a person less rational or responsive than they normally would be. I can see her mantra for staying upright being, please lord let me not fall off a cliff, and when she got herself to a hotel and if she was feeling very ill and confused it is not out of the realm of possibility that the call she made hours earlier might no longer be registering.

I am 58 and will be doing this walk next April on my birthday, my biggest fear is becoming disoriented or trapped in sudden weather on the Pyrenees. When I was in my late 40s and still in treatment for breast cancer I did one of the 60-mile awareness walks, on the first day after 22 miles I had become dehydrated and loopy; fortunately those around me noticed I was acting strange (singing random songs out loud and laughing to myself) and encouraged me along to an ER, where I received fluids and rest. It comes on you without notice and then you are compromised in thinking; I can only imagine what someone could experience at higher altitudes, older, and alone.

Is it possible that this woman was/is an insensitive dingbat? Anything is possible, but more likely she is an older woman who is feeling beat up and thoroughly embarrassed by her misadventure. The beauty of the Camino I have embraced from afar is the delight of supporting and being supported by strangers, the new relationships, and the inner journey. This story actually has a happy ending regardless of the route it took.

I hope that you are not describing the way you are preparing for the Camino. I also hope that if you have to call the emergency services, which heaven forbid, you have the awareness to call them off if you no longer need them. Since no one pays for an entrance ticket for the Camino, the efforts of the Spanish regions to provide safety and help for those who need it should not be taken lightly. Don't waste other people's tax money., their time or their lives.

A gentle reminder: If the Government of Navarra decides to charge this woman with the costs of the chopper, they are perfectly within the law.
 
Camino(s) past & future
April 13, (2014)
I hope that you are not describing the way you are preparing for the Camino. I also hope that if you have to call the emergency services, which heaven forbid, you have the awareness to call them off if you no longer need them. Since no one pays for an entrance ticket for the Camino, the efforts of the Spanish regions to provide safety and help for those who need it should not be taken lightly. Don't waste other people's tax money., their time or their lives.

A gentle reminder: If the Government of Navarra decides to charge this woman with the costs of the chopper, they are perfectly within the law.
My preparedness for the Camino is to be aware of my limitations and build my endurance and to keep an open heart, thank you for asking.

I think you missed my point entirely, it is, that not everyone has the awareness if they have a health crisis or are stressed beyond their endurance to follow up in the appropriate way. My point is there is a difference between intentional and unintentional. I did not say or imply that the Spanish authorities should not, or could not, impose fines or fees. My point was, that when you live in a tourist area, or in this case along a route that is an UNESCO World Herritage site, that the infrastructure is created to be a safety net to keep people alive and safe. As folks more educated on the actual events, it is the Spanish authorities who are in the position to pass judgment and make these determinations. And lastly, if you read the actual beginning to my entry, it gives huge respect to those who rescue and serve daily; when you live on a small island these people who protect and serve are our friends, family, and or neighbors.
 

ISABEL linares

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
camino frances,camino del norte,camino frances
I hope that you are not describing the way you are preparing for the Camino. I also hope that if you have to call the emergency services, which heaven forbid, you have the awareness to call them off if you no longer need them. Since no one pays for an entrance ticket for the Camino, the efforts of the Spanish regions to provide safety and help for those who need it should not be taken lightly. Don't waste other people's tax money., their time or their lives.

A gentle reminder: If the Government of Navarra decides to charge this woman with the costs of the chopper, they are perfectly within the law.
You are right,one can not ring the services,and then no ringing them back to said that she was in an hotel
 

Hikoi

Member
Camino(s) past & future
VdlP (2016)
Jesus Trail (Nazareth to Capernaum) 2016
Way of St Francis (Pietralunga to Assisi) 2016
To muddy the waters, the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" or "United Mexican States," so, technically, someone from Mexico can also be called "estadounidense." "Norteamericano" is generally restricted to identifying a person from the USA because "canadiense" exists for someone from Canada and "mexicano" for someone from Mexico. Of course, "americano" refers to anyone from any of the countries in the Americas: North, Central, or South America.
Some Mexicanos consider themselves Norteamericanos. They consider that limiting the use of the term to citizens of The United States of America is geographical imperialism. I’ve never heard a Mexican use the term Estadiounidense to refer to him/herself. Mexicano - si!
 

lbpierce

Linda Breen Pierce
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Some Mexicanos consider themselves Norteamericanos. They consider that limiting the use of the term to citizens of The United States of America is geographical imperialism. I’ve never heard a Mexican use the term Estadiounidense to refer to him/herself. Mexicano - si!
I have lived in Mexico for 12 years and most educated Mexicans consider the USA, Canada and Mexico as the three countries which form "North America," in contrast to "Central America" and "South America." They do refer to USA citizens as Estadounidense (took me about a year to be able to pronounce that word comfortably :)<
 
Last edited:

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
Some Mexicanos consider themselves Norteamericanos.
Before 1492, they all did! It took some invaders speaking Spanish, Portuguese, and English (among others) to draw some artificial borders and divide the people. As their reward, the invaders created "Hispanic" peoples, a designation as labored as "Indians" for the 573 Federally recognized Indian tribes!;)
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
There is also an app called AlertCops it is run by the Spanish Ministry. You download it and register with it. Then if you have an emergency of any type in Spain you click it. Someone responds immediately in your language, has located you through gps and asks what is the problem. It works. I did a face plant a week ago on the Spiritual Variente between Pontevedra and Padron. I was bleeding and couldn't move. The person on the other end asked me what was wrong, and then said the ambulance was on the way. Two Guarda guys came on motorcycles and carried me down the hill to the ambulance. Ambulance took me to a clinic to bandage me up. It really is an amazing app to have if you are walking the Camino. It can be used for any kind of emergency.
Hope you are well now!
 

Book your lodging here

Get e-mail updates from Casa Ivar (Forum + Forum Store content)




Advertisement

Booking.com

Most downloaded Resources

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Forum Store

Camino Forum Store

Casa Ivar Newsletter

Forum Donation

Forum Donation
For those with no forum account, it is possible to donate here as well. Thank you for your support! Ivar

Follow Casa Ivar on Instagram

When is the best time to walk?

  • January

    Votes: 15 1.4%
  • February

    Votes: 5 0.5%
  • March

    Votes: 41 4.0%
  • April

    Votes: 155 15.0%
  • May

    Votes: 259 25.0%
  • June

    Votes: 80 7.7%
  • July

    Votes: 21 2.0%
  • August

    Votes: 20 1.9%
  • September

    Votes: 298 28.8%
  • October

    Votes: 124 12.0%
  • November

    Votes: 12 1.2%
  • December

    Votes: 5 0.5%
Top