Historical route(s) mapped?

Leaningforward

Active Member

• Aug 19, 2014

• #1

I wonder ... if the historical route to Santiago from the Pyrenees -- what we now call the Camino Frances -- has been recorded in documents, has anyone mapped the route (and changes over time) using digital cartography tools?

 

L

lettinggo

Active Member

• Aug 19, 2014

• #2

Hola
Umm.. I'm not sure I understand your question all together.
What kind of documentation are you seeking?
When you mention digital cartography tools, I am thinking about google map and google street view..
Else there are Michelin maps, which can be quiet accurate.
I have seen middle age maps of Europe and Spain that gives an idea about how people thought Europe looked like.
Anyhow, I probably misunderstood what you are looking for. Please elaborate
Lettinggo

 

Leaningforward

Active Member

• Aug 19, 2014

• #3

Hola,

Thank you for inviting clarification.

Contemporary pilgrims have mapped the Frances and other routes using Google Maps and various GPS software. These maps record the paths we walk by following way markers. Parts of the current Frances route follow modern roads and bridges and skirt modern construction (like the airport before Burgos).

I am wondering whether anyone has (or knows of anyone) who has (a) studied historical documents that mapped or described earlier historic routes and (b) mapped those earlier historic routes on Google Maps or GPS software.

 

mspath

Veteran Member

Donating Member

Time of past OR future Camino

Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015

• Aug 19, 2014

• #4

What a wonderful subject this would be for a doctoral dissertation!! For a fascinating contemporary investigation of the development within Santiago de Compostela of the site of the cathedral and urbanization across the ages of the land upon which it is sited check out the work of the sip.consorciodesantiago,org. They use computer drafting/plotting to re-define their maps.

 

grayland

Veteran Member

Donating Member

Time of past OR future Camino

Yes

• Aug 19, 2014

• #5

This would be a fascinating subject to pursue.
We often have conflicting discussions here over what was the actual route of the early pilgrims versus todays paths. There seems to always be different versions of the actual early routes. There are many stories to back up the various submissions.

I wonder if there is a trove of ancient information that would add to the modern knowledge.
The mapping tools available now would make it very simple to present the old routings.

 

Felipe

Veteran Member

• Aug 20, 2014

• #6

Interesting, indeed. Drawing a modern map based on historical sources (since Aymeric) could be possible, and technically not very difficult. Now, pilgrims were (and are) as flowing water: they went wherever they believed it was easier and more interesting (which, in older times, may have been defined as "relics to visit" rather than landscapes). There was not an "official" Camino.
Now, for really old historical maps, I doubt very much that they exist, because in the Middle Ages cartography was not a very common thing, and the Camino went almost into oblivion in modern times. Anyway, they would have already been discovered by Spanish historians. My guess is that it would be possible to browse known maps of kingdoms, bishoprics and provinces for traces and fragments of Camino. Simple pedestrian paths, obviously, would have been mostly ignored. Just as an example, in this map of "Muy Noble y muy Leal Reino de Galicia" (1772) it is possible to recognize some places (Samos, Palas do Rei, Samos, Fonfría, La Faba, a place called "Hospital") an it is indicated the "Camino a Astorga".
See http://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/dgbrah/i18n/consulta/registro.cmd?id=12760

 

Last edited: Aug 20, 2014

KinkyOne

Veteran Member

Time of past OR future Camino

I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!

• Aug 20, 2014

• #7

Leaningforward said:

I wonder ... if the historical route to Santiago from the Pyrenees -- what we now call the Camino Frances -- has been recorded in documents, has anyone mapped the route (and changes over time) using digital cartography tools?

Click to expand...

Hi!
Try to contact @caminka maybe she can help you about that.

Ultreia!

 

GerryDel

Active Member

Time of past OR future Camino

Camino Frances, July 2014

• Aug 20, 2014

• #8

I haven't read the Codex Calixtinus. Does it provide maps or descriptions of the landscapes that can be followed?

 

xin loi

Active Member

Time of past OR future Camino

Walked May 14, 2014 from St Jean France

starting to walk again August 25, 2016 --SJPDP to Finisterre

• Aug 20, 2014

• #9

I'm betting the original Pilgrims were not as stupid as we modern pilgrims who purposely climb hills instead of keeping to lower contours. Saw several places along the Camino where evidence of old roads were apparent and were obviously much shorter than the crippled snake of a pathway we walked. On the other hand, similar to our "Native American"trails , I would not doubt that the original builders sometimes deviated from the common sense contour because of local demons, trolls, etc. As an engineer , I found the Camino extremely frustrating to walk as it appears to be purposely laid out just to make things harder than necessary . I would guess that you could take any 12 year old kid off a local school bus and he could design a better Camino. Actually my dog could design a more efficient road!

Have to read Michner's Iberia again--believe he states somewhere there is evidence of Santiago being a Roman Legion Cemetery with roads from all over Spain leading to it. .

 

Felipe

Veteran Member

• Aug 20, 2014

• #10

There is a translation of Calixtinus, liber V (the so called "Pilgrim's guide") to English, in
https://sites.google.com/site/caminodesantiagoproject/home
Contrary to what many people think on these old medieval books, it is an interesting lecture. The author was opinionated, prejudiced, had really a bad attitude, and complained angrily about people, lodging, food, taxes, local governments...just see the chap. VII. Definitely, he did not think that "The tourists demands, the pilgrims thanks".

 

Last edited: Aug 20, 2014

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody

Donating Member

Time of past OR future Camino

Many, various, and continuing.

• Aug 20, 2014

• #11

Check out "Camino de Santiago: Relaciones Geograficas, Historicas y Artisticas," a big coffee-table book by Jose Antonio Ortiz Baeza, Manuel Paz de Santos, and Francisco Gracia Mascarell, 2010, published by the Ministry of Defense and Amigos de Madrid. ISBN: 978-84-9781-536-9 . It is not easy to track down, but it is the best attempt at what you are looking for.

As a painter of waymarks, I can attest to the ever-changing nature of the camino. Lots of the "original" Camino Frances is paved and traveled as the N-120 highway. Landowners change their minds about having people tramp through or alongside their property. Roads flood, rivers change their courses, toll roads and insect- or bandit-infested patches are worked-around. Ancient monuments that once flanked the Road now require a side-trip to see -- the stone cross in the middle of a field near Villamenteros was a crossroads in the 11th century.
"The Original Camino" is really pretty mythical. But there are some really fascinating maps out there, if you love those like I do!