Antonius Vaessen
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2015-2016 VdlPlata - Sanabres
2016.Primitivo
2017 Salvador
2018 Norte (to Sobrado)
2019 Norte again
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The math and even the laws of mechanics are a lot simpler than the evaluation and quantification of "importance." It is as important as it feels to your body.Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
Good point!So I lost 25kg but groaned at having to carry 3kg more... does this help or hinder your research?
When you wear a pack you are going to stress your body. If you take off 5 kg of body weight your legs, knees, ankles and feet will get less stress. Your lower back some also if you you lose the weight in belly fat. But your pack will still stress your shoulders, lower back and hips (if you're wearing a hip belt.) Take the same weight from the pack and there will be less stress everywhere.The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo.
Although it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo body weight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. (NO)
If you are using 10% as a guideline and you weigh 90 Kilo's, a good pack weight would be 9 kg's.
Weight is important, imo. If you want to answer your question seriously, just add 5 kg's to your pack weight on a practice walk and post your conclusion.
Ultreya,
Joe
I may have been naive or plain stupid but I started with 30 kg and made to Santiago with a 30 kg pack.
No she was about 13 kg.30kg?! Crikey?! One of my PA speakers weights 18kg and it's not easy to cart around at a gig... I cant imagine carrying 30kg? All I can say is that they must build them strong in Tasmania?!
p.s. you're little one doesnt look 30kg
Good point.When you wear a pack you are going to stress your body. If you take off 5 kg of body weight your legs, knees, ankles and feet will get less stress. Your lower back some also if you you lose the weight in belly fat. But your pack will still stress your shoulders, lower back and hips (if you're wearing a hip belt.) Take the same weight from the pack and there will be less stress everywhere.
@Mark Lee, this might not be the only sensible post here in this thread, but it does stand out from the pack of folk lore, urban myth and just plain nonsense (albeit, I detected just the faintest glimpse of humour in one or two posts). So let me add to the nonsense!!Good point.
I would say to anyone planning walking a Camino, if you are overweight, lose the pounds/kilos before you start it. Don't depend on walking the Camino to do that for you.
Noting that these authors use from the skin out (FSO) measures, and they also acknowledge that pack weights vary by season, I have estimated that the the lower limit of their guidance (one fifth of body weight) is roughly equivalent, in summer, in Spain, to a bare pack weight of around 10% of body weight.The maximum for backpacking as an enjoyment is perhaps one-third of body weight. A well-conditioned body can handle more if necessary ... A reasonable load would be one-fourth or one-fifth of body weight. Unbearable Lightness would kick in down around one-eighth.
Surely you jest. Next you will say that we are not the sexual magnets we once were. Heresy.some of use are not the lithe and superbly fit specimens we might think we are.
A couple years back I was at a dive shop in Asia arranging a scuba dive and renting the equipment. My PADI certification card with my photo on it is the same one I got in the 1980's when I was in my mid-20's. The young lady working at the shop doing the paperwork and such for the dive and equipment rental looked at the card and the photo and said she would have liked to have met the guy in the photo. Sigh....Surely you jest. Next you will say that we are not the sexual magnets we once were. Heresy.
@Kanga invited me to join her next Camino adventure a few months ago and with a combination of training and altered diet I seem to have lost 5-6kgs from my 70 kg frame. ( I am 170cm tall )Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear
Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear
Ha, I don't need to add weight before my camino. It's already there. A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips. Have a great Christmas everyone.Ah, Antonius - how is your maths? Trusted 'Authorities' state as an empirical rule that you should not carry more than 10 % of your bodyweight. It would seem, following this rule, that should you lose 5k of your mass your backpack only needs to be reduced by 4.5% so your 'ideal' pack-weight reduces from 9k to 8.6k. Solutions to this issue include eating your lunch for breakfast or drinking 2 litres of water before you get out of bed in the morning thereby raising your bodyweight to the proportion of your pack. Seasoned repeat Peregrinos and other sneaky b*ggers pack on as much bodyweight as they can before their camino so that they can pack lots of useless extras in their packs before they set out. (These may all be abandoned at Roncevalles without embarrassment.)
As Newton stated before his n'th camino - every kilogram has an equal and opposite kilogram.
Amigo, if you can walk, comfortably, for twenty - twenty-five - thirty kilometres a day with your pack then the rest of it is bunkum ( English slang for tosh/ nonsense /mis-leading information)
A pound is a pound for foot stress and energy consumption. A split pack like an Aarn causes less load fatigue. Lose a pound and you can add a pound to your backpack. A backpack without structure (GoLite and others) causes the most muscle strain and soreness. The addition of a hip belt by the U.S. Army resulted in a massive decrease in discomfort and injury. Carrying a pack uses muscles that are not used in unburdened walking, but the overall consumption of energy is a function of total weight. Pack weight not carried close to the body's center of gravity will require measurably more energy.most people are not remotely attempting to answer the original question
Nutter@Tigger won't need a thing cos -
The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is Tiggers are wonderful things
Their tops are made out of rubber
Their bottoms are made out of springs
Theyre bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is @Tigger is the only one, @Tigger is the only one
Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear
Quite reasonable as far as it goes. But why doesn't it account for non-trivial varables such as fitness and caffeine levels?Actually it's more complicated than the simplistic 10% rule. This is much more accurate:
BP wt= {0.095Body wt * BMI^2/3 - air temperature (deg K) at 10:00 AM - .013*mean uphill m/km slope (radians) + .5*mean downhill m/km slope (radians) + .09pi^e}
I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?Actually Antonius,
As you are walking, you will probably find things you can do without along the way so you will find the pack weighs less. (My pack weighed 8 kilos at the start.) We sent things ahead to Santiago at about Santo Domingo (light down coat and a pair of gloves). Then as we were walking and wearing the same 2-3 outfits every other day or so, our shirts began to wear out where the straps from our packs were in contact. I had two of my three shirts wear out (granted they were not new when I started) and I had to replace at least one just past Leon. I also got down to 2 pairs of socks instead of three from washing and wearing and walking holes in one pair. At the very end, we even discarded our boots/shoes as they were worn out and we did not want to have to fly them home. You find by the end you will find that you really have only a few essential items and by then your pack will be lighter than when you started out. After I got home I had only one or two small items that I carried the whole way and never used. One was a lightweight plastic cup and the other was a tiny hand light (the kind you squeeze between your fingers.) I had another tiny map reading light with a red lens that could be clicked on and off, but I was fearful I would lose it so brought a back up. I only used the red light on rare occasions, but I would take it again.
Janet
I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?
I'm not familiar with the red light. Is it for reading at night in the dorm? A great benefit of walking at this time of year is the long days---no need to walk before daylight, right?
In 2014 I walked the CF starting the beginning of June. Since you are starting in late May, I suppose most of your walk will be during June.I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?
I'm not familiar with the red light. Is it for reading at night in the dorm? A great benefit of walking at this time of year is the long days---no need to walk before daylight, right?
I thought it was:
Predictive Equation for Estimating The Energy Cost of Walking and Running with Backpack Loads
Energy Cost of Loaded Walking
Mw = N (W+L) (2.3 + 0,32(V-2.5) 1 .65 + G (0.2+0.07(V-2.5)))
Energy Cost of Standing and Walking Slowly With and Without Loads
Mw = 1.5W+2(W+L) (L/W) 2 + N(W+L)(.,5V2 + o.35VG)
Energy Cost of Running With and Without Backpack Loads
Mr = Mw -0.5(1-0.01L) (Mw - 15L - 850)
Symbols:
Mw = Metabolic Cost of Walking (Watts)
Mr = Metabolic Cost of Running (Watts)
W = Subject Weight (kg)
L = Load Carried (kg)
N = Terrain Factor
V = Walking Velocity (m/sec)
G' = Slope or Grade (%)
And, of course, not one calorie of food would need to pass your lips for that weight loss to occur over that particular 124 km.
Look, most people are not remotely attempting to answer the original question, which is actually very interesting.
But neither am I.
I copped it when I posted Newtonian ramblings once before, and I'm not game to risk it again.
That said, I'm sure it must apply if you're on a bike. End of post.
Well, maybe not. ...Did anyone understand the Tasmanian contribution? I didn't, and I'm Australian; (sort of).[/QUOTE2 headed Tasmanians
Tigger: Well, I gotta go now. I’ve got a lotta bouncin’ to do! Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! T-T-F-N: ta-ta for now!@Tigger won't need a thing cos -
The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is Tiggers are wonderful things
Their tops are made out of rubber
Their bottoms are made out of springs
Theyre bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is @Tigger is the only one, @Tigger is the only one
Remember, Tiggers Don't Like Haycorns!By jingo Tiggs you is on the money.
Go Tiggs Go
“We can’t all and some of us don’t. That’s all there is to it.”eyeore, eyeore says that
Okay then. I'll just wander along the Camino by myself. It didn't matter anyway. Maybe I'll find an empty albergue . but that doesn't matter either, I'll just stay here.“We can’t all and some of us don’t. That’s all there is to it.”
~ (Eeyore), A.A. Milne
Okay then. I'll just wander along the Camino by myself. It didn't matter anyway. Maybe I'll find an empty albergue . but that doesn't matter either, I'll just stay here.
'pauses for thought for a nanosecond ( of which I am certain A.A.Milne knew nothing) thenCor blimey Tiggs - we is busted
I have worked with some top sports performers and development programms and been shown some research re cycling considering benefits from upgrading bikes used in cross training and competition to lighter versus dropping body weight by even a few grams and the graph showed a crossover point where the better quality, lighter, more expensive bike stopped being good value and a half kilo or 200 or 50 grams off the riders weight was far more efficient in performance. This would apply to the pack weight issue also. As stated by others, military data is around re weights in packs but note this is all usually on BMIs 21-25 with muscle to fat ratio with emphasis on upper body not common in hikers and with weight distribution to hip belts carrying items as well as the front of the pack straps for some and pack frames for ruggedness and not just hiking AND skewed in age 20-45 only. I have seen many spinal surgeries in 30 yr olds and double hip replacements on military aged 45yrs from cumulative weight bearing effects. The military performance is not a lifestyle threshold to emulate in my mind.Thanks everybody for your anders. Perhaps I should have made Clearer that the answers for me petsonally were not that important. I walked my caminos with a backpack that weighed about 8 kilos (without water) and my weight is 85 kilo. I had nog problems at Alliander.
I asked these questions purely based on curiosity. The question formulated in other words would be: how strong are the effects of losing bodyweight in comparison with lowering the weight of your backpack. (Intuiitively I would think that the importance of minimizing your backpack is a big overrated)
In your answers I foundation some food for thought, thanks again
Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear
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