Is the Camino losing its identity

[Bad Pilgrim]

I just finished the Camino and when I was in Santiago I saw a fellow pilgrim and I was so happy and I said, "We did it!" and he said in reply, "No, you took a bus." I was crushed. I did take the bus and the reason doesn't matter...injury, illness, running out of time, whatever...but I walked 400 miles and that was "my camino". I felt at times that some people were too harsh and judgmental if you did things like send your pack ahead or "take a bus". I wasn't sure why that was happening. It's okay to have a different opinion or even to smile a little when you hear a pilgrim using a tour bus say, "I need to get on the bus and change into my other hiking shoes before it leaves." (which is something I heard)... but it takes maturity and love not to judge. It's a personal journey and how it's done is really no one's business but your own.

"No, you took a bus" = What a stupid thing to say!? Even if he thought that, he shouldn't say that out loud when you are all in Santiago where EVERYONE is surely proud of their achievement.

BP

 

[David]

"No, you took a bus" = What a stupid thing to say!? Even if he thought that, he shouldn't say that out loud when you are all in Santiago where EVERYONE is surely proud of their achievement.

BP

I'm not too sure about this. Of course, everyone's Camino is their own Camino - but Deborah first said "we did it" - so I can see where the response came from ... they were not a 'we', they both did the Camino in different ways.
Had Deborah said "I did it, well, most of it, I did have to take a bus for a section as I was injured/tired/bored/late" the response would surely have been different - not so?

Think this - if you meet someone at the start of the London marathon and you both set off together but one of you takes a taxi for a few miles and you both meet up at the finish and the one who took the taxi says "we did it" - what would you expect the other to say?

 

[VNwalking]

Think this - if you meet someone at the start of the London marathon and you both set off together but one of you takes a taxi for a few miles and you both meet up at the finish and the one who took the taxi says "we did it" - what would you expect the other to say?

I admit to taking your statement a bit out of context and not addressing your main point, David. But I don't think that's quite the right metaphor because (of course) that the Camino isn't a race.
Having done a few caminos and more than a few marathons, I can attest to the fact that these are utterly different activities each with its own distinct purposes and 'rules.'
We seem to be going back to the question of pilgrimage again...but if Debora qualified for a compostela (this isn't clear from her story) surely she 'did it', bus or no bus? Regardless, it was a harsh and insensitive thing to say, especially under the circumstances. Well, I think.

 

[David]

I admit to taking your statement a bit out of context and not addressing your main point, David. But I don't think that's quite the right metaphor because (of course) that the Camino isn't a race.
Having done a few caminos and more than a few marathons, I can attest to the fact that these are utterly different activities each with its own distinct purposes and 'rules.'
We seem to be going back to the question of pilgrimage again...but if Debora qualified for a compostela (this isn't clear from her story) surely she 'did it', bus or no bus? Regardless, it was a harsh and insensitive thing to say, especially under the circumstances. Well, I think.

I am not in any way running down Deborah's achievement - she walked 400 miles!! and she arrived in Santiago, of course 'she' did it! and well done her ...
my point is different. I think it is a fair analogy - of course it isn't a race .. but I could have used the london to brighton fun cycle ride, or a 20km charity walk, or any other similar 'starting point and ending point' event - the thing is, of course she did a Camino - but she said to the person who started in the same place as her "we" did it and the other person didn't think so ... and the truth is, she didn't do what the other person did, walk all the way, she took a bus .. now, there is nothing wrong with taking a bus, nor riding a camel .... but she was inclusive and the other person disagreed. Fair comment (though I do think rather rude).

 

[VNwalking]

I guess I run it through the test of how would I react if she'd said that to me--and I think I'd have soundly agreed and shared the congratulations. And actually I said this once to someone under similar circumstances so it's not completely hypothetical. We did do it...and one of us covered a little ground in the bus. It still seemed to me that 'we did it,' this pilgrimage, and had by grace and good fortune arrived in Santiago. As you say, the conveyance doesn't matter as far as the heart is concerned.

 

[David]

I guess I run it through the test of how would I react if she'd said that to me--and I think I'd have soundly agreed and shared the congratulations. And actually I said this once to someone under similar circumstances so it's not completely hypothetical. We did do it...and one of us covered a little ground in the bus. It still seemed to me that 'we did it,' this pilgrimage, and had by grace and good fortune arrived in Santiago. As you say, the conveyance doesn't matter as far as the heart is concerned.

Yes, I would have given her a huge grin and a big celebratory hug - but there you go ..

 

[Kathar1na]

Since someone said "marathon" :

There are no rules for doing a camino (= pilgrimage to Santiago). The rules of the past, established by Church or kings, are no longer in force. Today, there are no authorities to establish such rules, just self-appointed arbiters. There are only rules for getting a Compostela and for staying in some albergues.

There are rules, however, for taking part and finishing a marathon, and these rules say that you have to start at the start, finish at the finish, usually within a certain time, and to move forwards on foot only (sometimes also in a wheelchair). Their dispute is about whether you walked it or ran it. The cause of this run-walk dispute is similar to the foot-bus dispute, namely that one is considered to be the more noble achievement than the other.

Someone once said to me - actually, he said it repeatedly - that given enough time, anyone can do a marathon.

I often think of these words when I read about camino achievements. Given enough time, anyone can walk a distance of 500 or 800 or 1500 km .

I am a marathon finisher, btw.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Had Deborah said "I did it, well, most of it, I did have to take a bus for a section as I was injured/tired/bored/late" the response would surely have been different - not so?

Well, I think no people would express themselves in that way. Saying "We did it" is a spontaneous reaction of joy. Why would it be followed by a list of how many times one had taken a bus. Nor would I start to analyse someone's use of "we" if someone happily says to me "We did it" at Plaza de Obradoiro.

/BP

 

[Bradypus]

I often think of these words when I read about camino achievements. Given enough time, anyone can walk a distance of 500 or 800 or 1500 km .

Always a little amused and/or annoyed when someone uses the phrase "within walking distance of...." when advertising their property or business. Pretty subjective. I suspect that the writer and I might interpret those words slightly differently

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

I watched a program on youtube last night about Santiago De Compostela, by PlanetDoc. Talk about changes in identity!

 

[nackyann]

You certainly did do it, Debora. Well done and congratulations! How many people do you know who have walked that far?
It's quite amazing, really.
As for the precious "I walked the whole way and you didn't" attitude...well, Jas is right:
What he said spoke volumes, not about you but about him.
I received a prayer card at the church in O Cebreiro and it applies:

The Prayer of La Faba
Although I may have travelled all the roads,
crossed mountains and valleys from East to West,
if I have not discovered the freedom to be myself,
I have arrived nowhere.

Although I may have shared all of my possessions
with people of other languages and cultures;
made friends with Pilgrims of a thousand paths,
or shared albergue with saints and princes,
if I am not capable of forgiving my neighbour tomorrow,
I have arrived nowhere.

Although I may have carried my pack from beginning to end
and waited for every Pilgrim in need of encouragement,
or given my bed to one who arrived later than I,
given my bottle of water in exchange for nothing;
if upon returning to my home and work,
I am not able to create brotherhood
or to make happiness, peace and unity,
I have arrived nowhere.

Although I may have had food and water each day,
and enjoyed a roof and shower every night;
or may have had my injuries well attended,
if I have not discovered in all that the love of God,
I have arrived nowhere.

Although I may have seen all the monuments
and contemplated the best sunsets;
although I may have learned a greeting in every language;
or tried the clean water from every fountain;
if I have not discovered who is the author
of so much free beauty and so much peace,
I have arrived nowhere.

If from today I do not continue walking on your path,
searching for and living according to what I have learned;
if from today I do not see in every person, friend or foe
a companion on the Camino;
if from today I cannot recognize God,
the God of Jesus of Nazareth
as the one God of my life,
I have arrived nowhere.

By this reckoning, he's got some walking to do before he finishes his Camino. You're home.[/QUOTE

 

[nackyann]

This whole judgement thing concerns me. I walked every painful step in 2003, but am planning to go on a tour in 2017 with a friend. If I feel someone's judgement or if something like that was said to us I would be equally crushed and feel the need to explain myself. Why is that!? No one should have to explain their reasons for how they are accomplishing their Camino. It seems to be human nature to judge/ explain. Perhaps it is one of the best reasons to do the Camino : to train oneself not to judge and/ or not feel a need to explain one'e actions.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

not feel a need to explain one's actions.

Each pilgrim is 100% in control of that!

 

[vlebe]

IMHO this is not at all related to how you get to santiago: If you walked from home, if you " cheated" , if you took a bus, if you drove, if you walked with pilgrim clothes or high tech modern clothes, etc. But, Camino is indeed loosing its identity... This is a fact. Like it or not.

But anyway... What on earth isnt changing? evolving? Mutating? Transforming? We live in a different world every day. Everyday there is something new... The simple fact that we have this amount of people discussing camino de satiago over an internet forum is already a strong signal that times are indeed different.

Now talking on judgement of "truevsfake" pilgrims. I only feel sorry for everyone that takes buses or taxis: Doesnt matter their reasons.... If they are ill, I feel sorry they are ill, if they are hurt, Im really sorry they are hurt, if they are taking bus on tours just out of laziness, I feel very very sorry as they have spoiled a wonderful experience. Its their choice and I dont really care.

Now, there are the cases of people (young and fit) being smartasses and taking buses to get first into municipal albergues, refugios, etc... These people I personally despise. I wont say anything and I wont judge them directly, but this is really a bad bad thing to happen on the camino... People taking beds from other pilgrims that really walked the whole way with their sores and pain only to find themselves with no beds.... What a shame...

Same goes for staying in private rooms or in albergues. You do whatever you feel is right for you. I wont judge... I just feel really sorry overall about all these changes and about people missing the best part of the overall experience.


Buen Camino everyone!

 

[capecorps]

I walked my first Camino as late as 2012. At that time there was a story going around that a pilgrim had actually taken a taxi/bus to keep up with her Camino family. This tale was greeted with shocked disbelief and most of my fellow pilgrims dismissed it as a Camino myth. How things have changed in a mere four years: this extraordinary event has now become the norm.

I’m all in favour of the bastardization of the Camino Frances. Four years ago, when I announced that I was undertaking the Camino, most here in Canada had no idea what I was talking about. Now it is mainstream and everyone plans to do it. Even though they’re motivated by a cheap holiday and a good time unsullied by even a pretense of spirituality or religiosity, I personally think it is all to the good.

Because there is always a slight chance that they would casually glance at the crucified Christ that dots the Camino; and..... Find him looking back.

And this will make all the difference.

 

[VNwalking]

I personally think it is all to the good.
Because there is always a slight chance that they would casually glance at the crucified Christ that dots the Camino; and..... Find him looking back.
And this will make all the difference.

@capecorps has a very good point.
Some people naturally gravitate to depth and dive right in, while others have to wade in inch by inch.
And I know a number of people (myself included, I might add) who got the kind of surprise that @capecorps is referring to and haven't looked back. For me it wasn't the Camino but a 'one off' mindfulness retreat that utterly changed how I live and see the world--it was a huge blessing.
Of course the Camino can do the same thing. So I imagine I'm not the only one here on the forum can attest to the power of that kind of 'sneak attack.'

 

[Kanga]

I have removed a post with a religious viewpoint, which, may I remind members, is a violation of the rules. We do allow quite a lot of leeway but no preaching and evangelising please.

The thread has become long winded and rather "lost its way". With so many posts it becomes difficult for the moderators, so I am closing the thread. Which does not stop anyone from starting up something new, if you have more to discuss.