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Pilgrimage or vacation?

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Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?

Wow, that’s a loaded question, and answer’s could easily break the forum rules if not carefully worded.

The simplest answer is, for some it’s a pilgrimage, whether done for religious/spiritual reasons or not.

For others, a walking holiday.

However, if you are working & it’s done in your vacation time, technically it’s a holiday (vacation ) no matter your personal feelings!

Call it what you will, the others are right- don’t let the well intentioned words of others bother you.

ALL that matters is that you walk

Buen Camino
 
What I try to keep in mind is that how I see my activities and how others see what I might be doing are possibly two very different things. And, both are fine! As we all walk for our own reasons, we decide for ourselves what our time on the Camino means or for that matter, what we call our pilgrimage or journey or trek or vacation, etc. As I speak to people here at home, very few have oven heard of the Caminos let alone know what significance it might have for those who walk or ride it.
 
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Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?

There are forum rules about discussing pilgrims vs holidaymakers so we'll be careful.

Vacation is a US word meaning holiday.
Holiday: "an extended period of leisure and recreation, especially one spent away from home or in travelling."

I think 2 things can be true. Let's just say you spent your vacation doing a pilgrimage.
 
My Camino walks are definitely my vacations. Admittedly, I'm not walking with a religious motive, but I don't think the two terms are incompatible. A "vacation," to me at least, means leaving the routines of my normal life -- work, doing chores, attending "functions" of various kinds -- behind and doing something else that fulfills and rejuvinates me. If a pilgrimage doesn't provide that, I don't know what else would.
 
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My time will be a vacation. My friend's time will be a pilgrimage. To each his own.

I do not think that someone else has an obligation to understand my motives. Without that expectation, I have no reason to be upset in the least. In fact, I don't really care at all what someone else thinks.
 
We have always divided our time and we call part of it "vacation" and part of it "pilgrimage". Friends and family just call it our annual "trip to Spain", because mostly they don't have a good idea of what we are doing when (volunteering, walking as pilgrims, or sightseeing.) Between ourselves we refer to the various segments as our "tourist", "pilgrim", or volunteer time.

I do know what you mean though about when you have one mindset and others have another. When I was mobilized and deployed with the military or was serving on annual training, my civilian work companions referred to it as my "vacation from work" time. Very annoying to me, especially when I worked very hard during those times.
 
We have always divided our time and we call part of it "vacation" and part of it "pilgrimage". Friends and family just call it our annual "trip to Spain", because mostly they don't have a good idea of what we are doing when (volunteering, walking as pilgrims, or sightseeing.) Between ourselves we refer to the various segments as our "tourist", "pilgrim", or volunteer time.

I do know what you mean though about when you have one mindset and others have another. When I was mobilized and deployed with the military or was serving on annual training, my civilian work companions referred to it as my "vacation from work" time. Very annoying to me, especially when I worked very hard during those times.
So interesting the way we talk to ourselves. Do you have a different mindset when a tourist, pilgrim, or volunteer?
 
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Wow, that’s a loaded question, and answer’s could easily break the forum rules if not carefully worded.

The simplest answer is, for some it’s a pilgrimage, whether done for religious/spiritual reasons or not.

For others, a walking holiday.

However, if you are working & it’s done in your vacation time, technically it’s a holiday (vacation ) no matter your personal feelings!

Call it what you will, the others are right- don’t let the well intentioned words of others bother you.

ALL that matters is that you walk

Buen Camino
Have to agree with you that this can open a can of worms. Right now I am trying to close that can as some of the responses here, let's just say I don't think alot of. But then I remember the old adage that I stick by, almost all the time, who gives a rat's a$$ what others think. I do respond sometimes when I really believe that someone gives a really arrogant answer or advice that has no basis in reality. I also always comment that people should not be giving ANY medical advice whatsoever. If you need drugs or you have a muscular/skeletal problem you need to see a professional. I have even read when some say just take Ibuprofen daily or something else. Misuse of even an over the counter drug can be dangerous.
 
Both.
Regular holidays for me and a pilgrimage.
Then again I do not give a toss how others perceive my Caminos.
The whole discussion about " tourist / true pilgrim " is so boring.
I wrote it already here on other threads. I met many so called holidaymakers on a Camino who behaved nicer and gentler than the so called true pilgrim who behaved obnoxious and arrogant.
 
So interesting the way we talk to ourselves. Do you have a different mindset when a tourist, pilgrim, or volunteer?

Obviously I can’t answer for Janet, but I know I certainly do!

As a tourist I sleep in, sightsee, people watch for hours, stay out later, and enjoy more good food and wine . And spend more money!

I have done my training, but have yet to volunteer on Camino - however, I have elsewhere. Then, I concentrate first and foremost on the job at hand - generally, other’s needs. Completely different mindset.

On Camino I wake, walk, wash, eat, sleep -repeat. No expectations, no agenda - just me, Mother Earth, and whom/ whatever the day chooses to bring . BLISS!!!
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
So interesting the way we talk to ourselves. Do you have a different mindset when a tourist, pilgrim, or volunteer?
Yes, I do. We always try to walk to our albergue as "pilgrims" and/or walk away as "pilgrims" when possible. This helps us remember when we are hospitaleros what things are important to pilgrims and what they may really need and want. As hospitaleros, we try to think less about our needs and more about the pilgrim guests. We listen more and share fewer personal stories. I think about shopping and meal planning and organizing around other activities in the community (Mass, festivals, siesta time, etc.) I try to become a small temporary part of the community in whatever little town where we are serving.

As a pilgrim, I am more in my own head. I am thinking mostly about me and/or Phil and where we will maybe stop for a rest or where we might like to stay for the night. I am mostly just thinking about the day and not worrying about the tomorrow. I am wondering if I will be able to stay awake for Mass and supper, etc.

As a tourist, I try to sleep in and splurge with sightseeing (tours, museums, etc.). I get a private shower or bath that I don't have to clean it or wash the sheets or otherwise clean up after myself and others. I have a big clean towel that someone else washes. Of course some things do bleed over. We walk more than most tourists do and probably don't have as many clothes as someone with a suitcase instead of backpacks.
 
You make pilgrimage for yourself, only yourself - why let it bother you what others call it?

Traditionally, if you walked with the heart and mindset of a pilgrim and you made pilgrimage to a place, then you were a pilgrim. Those walking the same paths to visit friends, conduct business, move between villages, etc were not seen as pilgrims. Even the great Saint Francis Xavier was not a pilgrim when he walked the Aragon, Arles, and other routes to Paris - he was simply a nobleman headed to university. If you walk the Thames Path to London, you are simply a tourist. But if you walk that same path with holy intention and finish at the Cathedral, you are a pilgrim. We have blurred these lines nowadays, so it’s truly what is in your heart that matters.
 
Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
My first Camino was a nice pleasant long walk, not a pilgrimage.

It shouldn't matter what people choose to call it, as long as we enjoy the experience.
 
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If vacation means "time off" from obligations, then I'm certainly on vacation. When my children were young, we often went on vacations to Spain and other warm countries. And, lying on a beach or a pool, OMG I don't know anything more boring and that I hate more. I get totally restless, and that's how I deal with my restlessness, with walking, with physical activity. I must have it every day, my restless mind demands it. I don't care what others think about where and what I do. Those who know me knows I'm not laying on a beach anyway. And only those who interests knows of my intensions.
 
::: chuckle::: Silvermomma, I'd invite you to spend a little more time with yourself and your original question. Why did it bother you? What part of your self- image was being challenged by calling your personal experience and possible suffering a "vacation?" Figure that out, and you may find a fruitful avenue of self discovery.

What we think doesn't really matter. What they think doesn't really matter.

What expectation are you carrying that wasn't met?
 
I don't expect that people I meet in the normal course of my life to have a highly nuanced understanding of undertaking a pilgrimage. However, those that I did work closely with when I was still working did get a better understanding over the years, as have close friends.

My local Friends of the Camino meets every month and runs a walk most months. It has, over the years, been a safe haven where I don't ever feel that my desire to walk another long pilgrimage is ever seen as strange or out-of-place.
 
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Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
I think, that I am surprised that someone who has completed the spiritual and physical journey of a Camino, is in the slightest bit bothered what someone else calls it.
 
::: chuckle::: Silvermomma, I'd invite you to spend a little more time with yourself and your original question. Why did it bother you? What part of your self- image was being challenged by calling your personal experience and possible suffering a "vacation?" Figure that out, and you may find a fruitful avenue of self discovery.

What we think doesn't really matter. What they think doesn't really matter.

What expectation are you carrying that wasn't met?
I know! I need to figure this out LOL. That’s why I asked you all for help. :)
 
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Both.
Regular holidays for me and a pilgrimage.
Then again I do not give a toss how others perceive my Caminos.
The whole discussion about " tourist / true pilgrim " is so boring.
I wrote it already here on other threads. I met many so called holidaymakers on a Camino who behaved nicer and gentler than the so called true pilgrim who behaved obnoxious and arrogant.
Yes - 100% agree with this.

I just refer to it as a ‘walking trip’. I am not religious or spiritual so for me to regard it as a pilgrimage and myself as a pilgrim would sound a bit daft, and my friends would smile at me. I am a deep thinker and very reflective but do that equally on a bus or train trip as I would do on a Camino walk, so to frame it as anything other than a walk/hike would be strange!

Not that it matters - some people go walking, some people go to Cancun, some people go to the Super Bowl, some people go working for charity, some people go to a retreat. They are all of equal merit. Holiday / Vacation covers it generically and those that are close to you will know what you are doing.and either think it’s great or daft!
 
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They are all of equal merit.
Here we part company, @TravellingMan22.

Consumption for the sake of pleasure (as in going to The Super Bowl or Cancun) is one thing. Doing something that has meaning or contrutes to the welfare of others (as in working for charity or going to a retreat) is entirely another.
And the merit of each is not equal.

In any group of people walking the Camino those on the tails of the bell curve (pure 'tourists' and 'pilgrims') will never ever understand each other. But it's complicated, because most of us walk with a mix of intentions. And its impossible to tease out what's simple pleasure and what has deeper meaning.That doesn't mean they are of equal value, though.
 
Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
Well, if you’re of working age ie not retired, your pilgrimage has to be a vacation 🙄 Done during your holidays..obviously.
Like others said before me, I couldn’t care less what other people call it 😁 Don’t even think about it 😉
 
Here we part company, @TravellingMan22.

Consumption for the sake of pleasure (as in going to The Super Bowl or Cancun) is one thing. Doing something that has meaning or contrutes to the welfare of others (as in working for charity or going to a retreat) is entirely another.
And the merit of each is not equal.

In any group of people walking the Camino those on the tails of the bell curve (pure 'tourists' and 'pilgrims') will never ever understand each other. But it's complicated, because most of us walk with a mix of intentions. And its impossible to tease out what's simple pleasure and what has deeper meaning.That doesn't mean they are of equal value, though.
I think you're over-thinking things.

Something pleasurable can also have meaning.

Any kind of travel experience contributes to the welfare of others. Whether you walk the Camino for the pleasure of a nice walk, or because you seek meaning in your life, those bars and cafes where you stop and spend your money benefit equally.

To suggest both reasons for walking are not equal is actually rather obnoxious.

I have walked a Camino and met people with all sorts of reasons for being there, and it was far from complicated. Whatever your reason for walking, just be friendly and kind, and get to know others. It's actually very simple really.
 
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Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
I describe my retirement as "the vacation that never ends". My whole life is now a vacation. And my Caminos are an important part of my life.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Dictionary. com defines vacation as:
a period of suspension of work, study, or other activity, usually used for rest, recreation, or travel;

You meet the first part and so others assume the second part. You could say "On my time off/away I'm going on a pilgrimage." "Yeah, you oaf; a pilgrimage. Look it up." 😈
 
Here we part company, @TravellingMan22.

Consumption for the sake of pleasure (as in going to The Super Bowl or Cancun) is one thing. Doing something that has meaning or contrutes to the welfare of others (as in working for charity or going to a retreat) is entirely another.
And the merit of each is not equal.

I don’t understand how going on a retreat “contributes to the welfare of others.” Nor do I see how walking the Camino does either (unless you are a hospitalero, but in that case you aren’t actually walking). Indeed, it seems that these are all equally “selfish,” if you will. They involve taking you away from your regular obligations to others (family, work, organizations) to do something that benefits you, whether that benefit is the joy of watching your favorite sports team or the peace that comes from clearing of your mind or the belief that you’ve done something to fulfill a religious calling. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with any of those things, as far as I’m concerned. Many people aren’t selfish enough, IMHO, when it comes to their own mental, spiritual and physical well-being.

As for “working for a charity,” if you are thinking of those 2-3 week stints digging a water well in Africa or feeding animals at a wildlife sanctuary in Thailand, those often are more harmful than beneficial to the welfare of others. Building projects have to be redone because the volunteers have no idea how to hold a hammer much less use it, local economies are disrupted, and stereotypes are reinforced. Like every other trip, they are undertaken by the traveler to feel good about what they are doing.
 
Here we part company, @TravellingMan22.

Consumption for the sake of pleasure (as in going to The Super Bowl or Cancun) is one thing. Doing something that has meaning or contrutes to the welfare of others (as in working for charity or going to a retreat) is entirely another.
And the merit of each is not equal.

In any group of people walking the Camino those on the tails of the bell curve (pure 'tourists' and 'pilgrims') will never ever understand each other. But it's complicated, because most of us walk with a mix of intentions. And it’s impossible to tease out what's simple pleasure and what has deeper meaning.That doesn't mean they are of equal value, though.
I guess the central point is about meaning! I have done 3 caminos. I hugely enjoyed them. But they were individual pursuits with no meaning to anyone but me! Maybe even selfish! Contrast that taking my children to Cancun and our bonding and happiness as a family and their excitement… no contest!

Similarly one of best friends took his young son to the Super Bowl this year! He’s has been to a few and is ‘hardbitten’ but he described it as one of the happiest days of this life, though he was less enamoured that his son didn’t sleep for a week before the game!

So it’s more nuanced that you think. I have nomadic for 4 years. Permanent vacation if you will. But I have done far more ‘giving back’ in that time, or my travels, than any other time of my life, and I gave nothing back during my caminos. How would you unless you are a volunteer! It about you and you own agenda.

As I have said I have done 3 Caminos but there was zero value to anyone but me!
 
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The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
There is a taxonomic hierarchy that many of us ignore when we are travelling.
  • first and foremost we are travellers
  • some people will be travelling for employment now, study for future employment, attending work related conferences, etc, and they are a separate class.
  • if we are travelling in our own region or nation, we are locals or day travellers and there might be other names used to classify such travellers. There will be different views on this depending on one's regional perspective.
  • otherwise, we are tourists. This is a well accepted classification, except, it would appear, in the pilgrim community. It appears, perhaps for good reason, that we don't want to be associated with the pejorative aspects of being labelled a tourist and what might be seen to be the excesses of some tourists.
  • we might then be pilgrims, but we could be sightseers or perhaps we are both in various combinations at different times.
As a pilgrim, I no longer feel the need to engage in discussions when I am walking about who might be in any particular category. These are views that I hold close should someone's behaviour tempt me to categorize them, knowing, amongst other things, that my mind-reading skills are not very well honed.
 
So it’s more nuanced that you think.
I'm well aware of the many layers of nuance, @TravellingMan22. I've been 'on the road' since 2003, and in that time multiple layers of nuance have revealed themselves.

How would you unless you are a volunteer! It about you and you own agenda.
I actually think we agree about this more than we don't. I walk as a contemplation and as prayer, as a form of inner rest, as a way of connecting with both other people and with nature, culture, and history.

Part of that is more touristic than 'pilgrimistic' and part is more 'pilgrimistic' than touristic. It's not 'service' or giving back, of course not. The rest of my life is about that, explicitly. But the time (mostly alone) on my feet fuels everything else, giving me the energy and space to serve wholeheartedly in the rest of my life. But it's not just a pleasant journey, traveling. The Camino is far deeper than a moving party scene.

I would not be surprised if a majority of us who walk with mixed motivations do so for similar reasons, whether we call ourselves pilgrims or not.

The labels are not as relevant as what is happening inside.
 
That's not very nice to say. You comment on a well-founded post with reflected thoughts. Leave it as it is.
What's not nice are obnoxious attitudes towards those who walk a Camino for different reasons than yourself.
 
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Why am I not surprised that this thread, that started with a simple question/reflection, quickly evolves into exchange of sharp comments? :rolleyes:
 
Yes, exactly - never mind us or anyone else. Just put the question out there and let the answer arise by itself. It will.

Itn the end it may or may not matter. The asking and inner listening is everything.
Thank you so much. I wonder if it's a question like "If I'm enjoying myself, is it a pilgrimage?" :)
 
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Me??? please stop this now. Don't put me in a light without me saying anything about anything. Moderators?

I think he meant he's using the "impersonal you" instead of saying "oneself". I could be wrong. But you seem to have put yourself in the firing line by telling someone what they can or can't say. I've experienced this a couple of times on here and people end up arguing, posts get deleted, thread gets locked.
 
Me??? please stop this now. Don't put me in a light without me saying anything about anything. Moderators?
No not you, the person I responded to. Maybe re-read to original post. It's not about you.
 
Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
Interestingly, my two sisters and I just had our first "Sisters' Adventure", and my older sister asked pointedly what we expect on a vacation. We each had very different takes on "a vacation". My older sister especially. She likes to go to get pampered and not have to arrange things or make decisions. She likes a european river cruise or a posh hotel. Her idea of walking the camino is having everything booked and carried from Sarria, no albergues. I was very confused at the vacation question-as my ideas about travel are walking on pilgrimage, visiting friends and family and going camping or backpacking with scouts. I've lived in Rome, Heidelberg, and Paris-- and have a hard time imagining going to europe for a week as a tourist, staying in a fancy hotel... (Although I do hear that sometimes hotels can be okay!) Honestly, I've never gone on a tour with a bus and a group anywhere. Vacation?
Hmmm. When I worked in Germany I took a three week vacation to Greece, but back here in the US and then as a mom... I don't really think "vacation".
I guess I could say that my older sister's idea of vacation is to "get away and relax", whereas I look at time away to be challenged and change. And I love not knowing what to expect. It's not really her idea of a vacation.
Personally, I call my time walking the camino a pilgrimage. I walked the first time with my son, so I was still working as a mom the whole way through.
 
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Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
A selection of Camino Jewellery
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
A vacation is easy to embark upon; everything has been laid out for us to have a predictable, comfortable, and reassuring holiday But a pilgrimage is different; we are actually beckoning to the darkness in our lives. The fear is real.
This is a very good description of what the Camino is like for me. I often wonder, 'What I was thinking?'

Beckoning the darkness is certainly not everyone's intention, but the challenges come even if we think we're embarking on a pre-booked and 'comfortable' camino. That's how people start as 'tourists' and end as 'pilgrims.'

Which is not to say it can't be reflective, or joyful, or social. The Camino has many faces.
 
Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
You could assume good intent. We cannot expect people who have not done this to know the correct/preferred terminology.
 
I beg to disagree. A "holiday" is a non-US word meaning "vacation" ;)🤣🤣
Here in Canada, holiday and vacation have different but overlapping meanings - at least in my dialect.

Both refer to times when you aren't working.

Holidays are days when work shuts down and you get time off. They aren't usually much more than a week and often (but not always) originally had a religious basis ("holy day"). Things like Thanksgiving and Christmas, but there are completely secular holidays (Canada Day here is one example). We talk about public holidays, statutory holidays, and bank holidays and which days you get off depends on your contract. For statutory holidays, if you don't get them off work, you are generally paid extra.

Vacation is different. It is also time off work, but work continues in your absence. People get a certain amount of "vacation time" in addition to holidays.

I can't speak to the usage in other English-speaking countries, US or non-US.
 
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Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark on my fourth camino, whatever people call it. What do you think?
if a Camino is walked within one's vacation days of their paid work, it may indeed be a vacation (and a pilgrimage).
 

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