- Time of past OR future Camino
- Francés (2018), Português (2019), Inglés (2022)
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Thanks!
What about the capitalisation of Buen Camino?
Funny - it took me longer than it should to land, but that's what happens when you've been editing a 24k text!That is Santiago isn't it ?
What are you writing? Blog? Or print?Hello all - I hope that you are all safe and well.
I'm making the most of these strange and surreal times by being a bit more creative than usual, and one of my first projects is turning my 2018 Camino Francés blog into an eBook.
I'd like to make sure I'm getting certain things right, so I would like to ask for your opinions.
Should "Camino" be italicised throughout?
What about "albergue"?
The same question applies to "peregrinos" and "hospitaleros".
It seems to me that all Spanish words should be italicised.
Should "Buen Camino" always be capitalised on both words?
I look forward to your thoughts!
Muchas gracias
John
Salutation: "Buen Camino".
Affirmation: "I had a buen Camino".
Information: The path from Roncesvalles to Zubiri is a buen camino. Though of course there are those that would argue that neither Roncesvalles or Zubiri need italicising as they are Proper-nouns.
One of the problems in these difficult days is we have spare time on our hands. Do not overthink things!!!Hello all - I hope that you are all safe and well.
I'm making the most of these strange and surreal times by being a bit more creative than usual, and one of my first projects is turning my 2018 Camino Francés blog into an eBook.
I'd like to make sure I'm getting certain things right, so I would like to ask for your opinions.
Should "Camino" be italicised throughout?
What about "albergue"?
The same question applies to "peregrinos" and "hospitaleros".
It seems to me that all Spanish words should be italicised.
Should "Buen Camino" always be capitalised on both words?
I look forward to your thoughts!
Muchas gracias
John
I agree with this but admit that I have just done that! Be clear and simple. Try to be consistent and uncluttered.Do not overthink things!!!
I wonder when you are going to publish a dictionary of Pilgrish that will allow us to decide what Spanish or other words have been adopted into common use by English speaking pilgrims?I personally would not italicize any of the Spanish words that we pilgrims have adopted into our English conversation.
Sevilla/SevilleThere might be place names that have both a local spelling and a different English spelling. Lisbon, Florence and Cologne come immediately to mind, but I cannot think of any in Spain right now.
I don't see a need for such a dictionary! The author can make those decisions, keeping his/her/their audience in mind.I wonder when you are going to publish a dictionary of Pilgrish that will allow us to decide what Spanish or other words have been adopted into common use by English speaking pilgrims?
I completely agree and I would certainly use italics for this purpose. I just don't think it is necessary, for clarity in an informal account, to italicize the occasional Spanish words. These words would be spoken quite naturally in an English sentence without the use of air quotes or vocal emphasis, at least after one day on the Camino. If the reader doesn't recognize the word as being English, it is a safe bet that the word is Spanish.some, if not many, of us appreciate it when contributors do use italics for clarity for words that do require to be distinguished from the remainder of the text.
The path from Roncesvalles to Zubiri is a buen camino
"Bouffe" or "bof"? I assume 'bouffe." As in "la Grande ......" However, the reason I am (unusually for me) joining in is that I think convention (this is not grammatical) must be considered in conjunction with typographical usage. Too much in italics is deemed typographically "busy," and should be avoided. Discuss?English grammatical convention is that foreign language words used in english language texts should be italicised. Presumably to advise the English reader that the word is foreign and therefore requires additional attention (or can be ignored).
Publishers' conventions suggest that if any number of foreign language words are to be used in a text a glossary should be provided. Which might lead you to some interesting asides as when rendering an accurate translation of Menu Peregrino. At least you'll have no obligation to render "bouff" from the French.
Happy transcribing !
Ah .. italics .. true, foreign words in English are italicised - but also the names of novels and films should be ... and it is traditional with us elders to also italicise quotes.
And for @JohnLloyd I would add:
When referring to a specific Camino, and using the Spanish names, don't forget about the accents where necessary. Example:
Last year, I walked the Camino Francés.
I don't see a need for such a dictionary!
Some people viscerally dislike italics ; others view them with kindness, or even pleasure.
Yes. I agree. Save italics for where they are really useful.Too much in italics is deemed typographically "busy," and should be avoided. Discuss?
Hmmm. I have never thought of italics as an object of such emotions before. Maybe I could work myself up into a fury if I tried. However, today is a beautiful sunny spring day, so I'll save that project for another day.Some people viscerally dislike italics ; others view them with kindness, or even pleasure.
It can be Francès, and that's how I always write it myself ... (how you write it depends I think on how you personally pronounce it in Spanish)
But well, accents rules and points of detail in the Romance languages are a pure nightmare !!
@JabbaPapa: In Castilian Spanish, all written accents have the same orientation: á é í ó ú.
Indeed, but the (English) pilgrim's lexicon exists independently of it being documented in a dictionary, wordbook or other form of written lexicon.Such a thing would be a lexicon.
Once you know the simple rules, it's really quite easy to understand the accent marks.@JabbaPapa: In Castilian Spanish, all written accents have the same orientation: á é í ó ú.
They don't change the quality of the vowel, they only indicate which syllable has to be stressed when you pronounce the word.
[This is not true for French or Catalan where é and è do have different sounds.]
The rules are:
1- Words ending with a vowel, -s or -n are stressed on the penultimate syllable.
Muchos peregrinos cantan en el camino.
2- Words ending with consonants (except -s or -n) are stressed on the last syllable.
Estoy feliz en el parador. ¡Salud!
3- All exceptions to the above rules need a written accent.
El sábado caminé 30 kilómetros a León.
Sometimes, an accent has tu be used on monosyllabic words to distinguish between two different meanings. For example:
el = the (masc.)
él = he
si = if
sí = yes
Sorry if that was too much detail. Couldn't help it. Once a teacher, always a teacher.
OK but -- https://www.biciland.com/ca/camino-frances-en-bici -- and 3 guesses where in Spain I learnt my first Spanish.
And you should always say Maria Bueno fue muy buenoI beg to differ with you here @Tincatinker .
Salutation: There ist no capitalization in Spanish, except for the beginning of a sentence or names.
So I would say:
¡Buen camino, peregrino!
Or, in an English text:
Many locals wished us buen camino.
Just like: We climbed into our bunks and wished each other buenas noches.
Affirmation: In a pilgrimage context, I would capitalize Camino (treating it as a proper noun) but use the adjective in English, as it is not part of a salutation.
I had a great Camino.
Information: No need to even use Spanish words in your sentence:
The path from Roncesvalles to Zubiri is very good.
In Spanish, you could say: El camino de Roncesvalles a Zubiri es muy bueno.
And for @JohnLloyd I would add:
When referring to a specific Camino, and using the Spanish names, don't forget about the accents where necessary. Example:
Last year, I walked the Camino Francés. Next year, I hope to walk the Camino Sanabrés. I think the Camino del Norte or the Vía de la Plata would also be wonderful walks.
Same goes for the names of towns and villages: León, Agés, Frómista, Carrión de los Condes, ...
Accents do matter in the Spanish language.
Good luck with your project!
That must have been confusing, being exposed to castellano and català at the same time as a learner!
Hello all - I hope that you are all safe and well.
I'm making the most of these strange and surreal times by being a bit more creative than usual, and one of my first projects is turning my 2018 Camino Francés blog into an eBook.
I'd like to make sure I'm getting certain things right, so I would like to ask for your opinions.
Should "Camino" be italicised throughout?
What about "albergue"?
The same question applies to "peregrinos" and "hospitaleros".
It seems to me that all Spanish words should be italicised.
Should "Buen Camino" always be capitalised on both words?
I look forward to your thoughts!
Muchas gracias
John
Thanks Mike - I think you've provided the best solution there - use italics and an explanatory translation for the first instance, and then no more.As a author who has written a cycling guide to the Camino (Cycling the Camino de Santiago, Cicerone Press, 2019), I follow my publisher's style guidelines when it comes to italicisation and use of upper case letters. These require that only the first appearance of a foreign word be in italics, followed by a standard typeface English translation in brackets; so ...... peregrino (pilgrim)....... Subsequent appearances should be in standard typeface with no translation. Proper nouns, mostly the names of places or people, are not italicised. Italics are also used for quotations and for the names of other literary and artistic works. I always include a brief glossary at the back of all my translated words.
As Camino is always capitalised, where 'Buen Camino' forms a distinct sentence or the beginning of one (ie following a full stop), then both words should be capitalised. Only the first appearance should be in italics. Incidentally I translate this as.....Buen Camino ('have a good walk'), though this could probably start a thread all of its own!
Mike Wells
As a reader, this is my preference. If the foreign words are always italicized I find it a bit I annoying. I feel like "I got it the first time, quit hitting me over the head with the fact that these are foreign words!"These require that only the first appearance of a foreign word be in italics, followed by a standard typeface English translation in brackets; so ...... peregrino (pilgrim)....... Subsequent appearances should be in standard typeface with no translation
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