Willie Jarl
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2007 St.Jean to Santiago, 2010-12 Vezelay St.Jean PdP
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falcon, I’m with you. The bandana I wore every day was not a fashion accessory.With 300,000 pilgrims and no public toilet facilities, we should be grateful that it is as clean as it is. When an emergency strikes, what are you going to do (if you have not brought a trowel)? Businesses all have signs "Restrooms for clients only." They know the scope of the problem, and they do not want to clean up after pilgrims without a revenue stream to pay for cleanup, toilet paper, towels, electricity, and muddy floors. Yet pilgrims resent them for not supplying free toilets! The problem is complex, and about all each of us can do is leave the Camino a bit cleaner than when we arrived. I think the tissues you see on the trail are from runny noses. I am not picking them up regardless! I use a good old fashioned handkerchief, appalling to my children and the Japanese, but Europeans all seem to use tissues. Maybe requiring long sleeved shirts where cuffs can wipe snot?Walk ten yards into any forest and you will see the real latrine...
I want to know how you know it is not emergencies. Personal survey? Observation? Personal experience? Do you think people set out to enter the 40-acre latrine instead of using the albergue or a bar?But what do I know?
Yes, I always carry emergency supplies too. I'm just happy that I haven't had to use them yet.Trecile, I saw very little in May-June. I’ve heard both first hand and in posts that apparently due to the summer crush, that changed. I’ve always carried a “potty-pack” for “emergencies”, I never had to use it on my Camino but it included a roll of TP, wet wipes and 5 ziplock bags with TP in them. The ziplock was obviously for packing out. Like you, I respect and appreciate the service that local bar/Albergue owners provide and only used the facilities at places that I patronized.
Could it have been on a stretch of the Camino which had recently been cleaned by Rebekah S and her team?I'm apparently not walking the same Camino as some of you, or I'm just blind.[...]
I think this is an awkward situation. Assuming you speak of Valencia, Spain, and the joggers in question are residents of that city, I believe we - difficult as it may be and as extranjeros - need to accept the standards of others on their own turf. I don't mean to sound harsh; that's as I see it.Just so everyone knows, it isn't just the extranjeros who do the deed on the trail. This summer, I was walking daily on the Valencia city river trail park with all the joggers and I occasionally would see a jogger go behind a bush, squatting relieving themselves #2. When I told the park attendants, they would just shrug their shoulders like what do you expect.
My mind wandered to helpful pilgrims following pilgrims into the bushes to ensure trash pickupI just got back yesterday from the Camino. I think I was expecting it to be worse - I noticed the TP at times, but for the most part, was enjoying the views a little higher off the ground. I saw the odd person going into the bushes, but tried not to watch to see if they carried their stuff out. I brought TP and ziplocks, but thankfully was able to use the facilities at bars when needed. I did need my TP in the bars / albergues a few times though - that was a definite life saver.
I think this is a awkward situation. Assuming you speak of Valencia, Spain, and the joggers in question are residents of that city, I believe we - difficult as it may be and as extranjeros - need to accept the standards of others on their own turf. I don't mean to sound harsh; that's as I see it.
@trecile, good on you. But you don't have to make a purchase of unwanted goods. It is, or at least always has been in Spain's larger cities, acceptable to put 50 cents or so on the bar in acknowledgement of the provision (and the costs). Spanish bar tenders are savvy enough to understand that buying a drink every time you want a pee is a self-defeating process
I was told by the locals that you are not expected to buy something in a bar if you use their facilities. That is a cultural difference to other countries.
I saw signs that asked for a Euro if no purchase was made. I also stopped for a break in a place that printed a code upon a receipt. That code unlocked the facilities. This was just this past spring. I didn't see those things in 2013.
I believe I have been misunderstood. You said, "I occasionally would see a jogger go behind a bush, squatting relieving themselves #2. When I told the park attendants, they would just shrug their shoulders like what do you expect." Your saying this indicated to me that you found something lacking in the park attendants' response. It is this to which I referred when I said we need to accept the standards of others on their own turf.Meaning "when in Rome, do as the Romans"? Does that mean, it is okay to do a #2 in the bushes and not take it with you in a doggy bag? My view is that while it may be okay for the locals to do it, I personally don't think it is cool for me to do it. That is because I value the environment and sparing others from 'experiencing' my 'marking'. While I subscribe to the 'Roman approach', this is an exception for me.
On a slightly different point, I think it would be a totally cool camino to do the Camino Francis, dedicated to collecting those little tissues. I would have a box of biodegradable garbage bags and one of those long metal trash 'picker uppers' designed to collect those little tissues.
I only encountered this between Sarria and Santiago.I saw signs that asked for a Euro if no purchase was made. I also stopped for a break in a place that printed a code upon a receipt. That code unlocked the facilities. This was just this past spring. I didn't see those things in 2013.
[Note that I have not asked you how you determined that the business being conducted behind the bush involved #2!]
No commentI dare say at one point, I saw it all happening. I watched as the runner pass me, then non-chalantly walk behind a rather meager bush lacking in foliage. As I walked by the bush, I saw him squatting and emitting his 'mark.' I couldn't believe it! I have no idea how he wiped. A moment later he passed me by again jogging. Not a care in the world!
I asked the park attendant about what the runners/walkers do about relieving themselves. They said to just use a bar as they expect it (a good 10 minutes out of the way). I told them what I saw of the squatter and they shrugged their shoulders. I told them I felt bad they had to clean up the mess.
Japanese
If that is the case, then why all the "Restrooms for Customers Only" signs (in Spanish, of course, mostly)? Your locals may not have consulted with the bar/restaurant!I was told by the locals that you are not expected to buy something in a bar if you use their facilities. That is a cultural difference to other countries.
If that is the case, then why all the "Restrooms for Customers Only" signs (in Spanish, of course, mostly)?
What a great idea!Just for the record: you can support the DitchPigs cleanup with a contribution... hit the PayPal button on http://moratinoslife.blogspot.com.es !
I totally agree. I have just come from the Primitivo. Prestine. Ladies, how would you feel to have toilet paper with pee covered on your body? Well Mother Earth doesn't like it either. Use a pantyliner and leave the TP at home.The Frances is terrible from melide. The markings defaced, bottles around the markings , and the path lined with TP. How things have changed from 2006! Still 2-3 hours to get a Compostela and over an hour to get into the church. . Grateful for having done 3 Camino's over 10 years ago.I have walked the Camino 4 times. First time in 2007. I am very disappointed about the new markings that help me find the way. Many places there are more trash, empty bottles and toilet paper than the traditional arrows.
For a period of time, the Camino is our home. In most homes, it is not accepted to to throw leftovers on the floor, not to mention toilet paper or to defecate on the carpet. Why should this be accepted on the Camino? Do some people think that they are alone?? THEY ARE NOT!
The problem is easily solved. Use a bag such that dog owners use to pick up your leftovers. ( Dog owners can use this, so why can't we?) Put this in the plastic bag that you got when in a shop. Then you put this in an air and watertight bag, that you can get for a small sum in any sport shop. No smell and no mess! Then you can leave your leftovers in a garbage bin at the alberge or when you pass one on your way. By doing this, you will have a clear conscience, and you will make many people happy.
Let the air and waterproof bag hanging on your rucksack be the new symbol showing that you know that you are not alone on the Camino,-- or wherever you are walking out in nature.
Maybe even somebody can start a campaign and sell or even give away such bags with the label: "YOU ARE NOT ALONE!"
Buen and KLEEN Camino!
I agree the toilet paper is ugly and often left on the ground when a garbage can is nearby. I am a woman and I bring 1/2 a hankerchief ( yellow of course) I fold it in thirds and use it to blot myself. I rinse it out each night. If you refold it after use the dry side is out and no need for a plastic bag. I call it my pee ragTotally agree, we are almost at Santiago and the whole journey has been disgusting. Littering, signs graffitied and or damaged & the list goes on.
Very disappointing!
I agree the toilet paper is ugly and often left on the ground when a garbage can is nearby. I am a woman and I bring 1/2 a hankerchief ( yellow of course) I fold it in thirds and use it to blot myself. I rinse it out each night. If you refold it after use the dry side is out and no need for a plastic bag. I call it my pee rag
I have a bandana tied to my back pack I use for runny nose events. Then I wash it with my clothesWith 300,000 pilgrims and no public toilet facilities, we should be grateful that it is as clean as it is. When an emergency strikes, what are you going to do (if you have not brought a trowel)? Businesses all have signs "Restrooms for clients only." They know the scope of the problem, and they do not want to clean up after pilgrims without a revenue stream to pay for cleanup, toilet paper, towels, electricity, and muddy floors. Yet pilgrims resent them for not supplying free toilets! The problem is complex, and about all each of us can do is leave the Camino a bit cleaner than when we arrived. I think the tissues you see on the trail are from runny noses. I am not picking them up regardless! I use a good old fashioned handkerchief, appalling to my children and the Japanese, but Europeans all seem to use tissues. Maybe requiring long sleeved shirts where cuffs can wipe snot?Walk ten yards into any forest and you will see the real latrine...
What a great idea. They could be the standard bandana print or maybe scallop shell print. I place mine in a pocket after use. However, you can pin it to your backpack. Another idea would be to provide a thin cotton drawstring bag with a saying, like I love the Camino and keep it clean with a shell and little heart. Inside the bag a Ziploc bag with a tissue would be included for the unexpected . The tissue would be returned to bag to be disposed of in the trash. Part of the profits could be contributed to a keep tissue of the Camino fund. I am currently walking the Camino and it is late October and there are piles of tissues behind bushes everywhere and even next to the grapevines on private property.I wonder if there could be a market for something like that along the Camino?
From Mrs Easygoing.. I forgot to mention my original post stated I use 1/2 a yellow bandana folded in half and then 1/3s to blot after urinating, then fold the damp side in, return it to my pocket and wash it nightly. It's the pee rag that may clean up the CaminoWhat a great idea. They could be the standard bandana print or maybe scallop shell print. I place mine in a pocket after use. However, you can pin it to your backpack. Another idea would be to provide a thin cotton drawstring bag with a saying, like I love the Camino and keep it clean with a shell and little heart. Inside the bag a Ziploc bag with a tissue would be included for the unexpected . The tissue would be returned to bag to be disposed of in the trash. Part of the profits could be contributed to a keep tissue of the Camino fund. I am currently walking the Camino and it is late October and there are piles of tissues behind bushes everywhere and even next to the grapevines on private property.
concrete markers
I want to know how you know it is not emergencies. Personal survey? Observation? Personal experience? Do you think people set out to enter the 40-acre latrine instead of using the albergue or a bar?
That may be on the Camino Frances. I have never seen that on the caminos I do.
I wouldn't feel right using their facilities without buying something, or at least giving them some money.I was told by the locals that you are not expected to buy something in a bar if you use their facilities. That is a cultural difference to other countries.
I wouldn't feel right
Still, I prefer to contribute towards the upkeep and supplies that are provided when I use the toilet in an establishment. I'm sure that it is appreciated by them.I hear that people don't feel right and I don't 'feel right' either. The reason is we were raised in a place where we learn 'not to feel right.'
But this is a cultural thing. In Spain, most places don't have public toilets (except on the Camino Frances of course). So rather than you leaving your mark on the central plaza lawn, the Spaniards prefer you use a toilet in the bar. No big deal.
I'm sure that it is appreciated by them.
Here's the thing. A Spaniard who uses "los servicios" at a bar without being a costumer is likely a local who more than likely has been a customer, or will be in the future. I'm just one of thousands of foreigners who will travel through that town, and will never be a customer again.wonderful...you go right ahead. I prefer to leave my mark as the Spaniards do.
We can always pick it up vs make a complaint. One bag over your hand pic up a bag or two of the dreaded white.
Buen camino
Is that not why we/I wear) long sleeve and fleece gloves (in winter)? sometimes the handkerchief is in the pocket and not available for a quick wipe across the nose.With 300,000 pilgrims and no public toilet facilities, we should be grateful that it is as clean as it is. When an emergency strikes, what are you going to do (if you have not brought a trowel)? Businesses all have signs "Restrooms for clients only." They know the scope of the problem, and they do not want to clean up after pilgrims without a revenue stream to pay for cleanup, toilet paper, towels, electricity, and muddy floors. Yet pilgrims resent them for not supplying free toilets! The problem is complex, and about all each of us can do is leave the Camino a bit cleaner than when we arrived. I think the tissues you see on the trail are from runny noses. I am not picking them up regardless! I use a good old fashioned handkerchief, appalling to my children and the Japanese, but Europeans all seem to use tissues. Maybe requiring long sleeved shirts where cuffs can wipe snot?Walk ten yards into any forest and you will see the real latrine...
I'd be happy if folks would just use plastic bags to contain their TP. That alone would make a huge differenceI have walked the Camino 4 times. First time in 2007. I am very disappointed about the new markings that help me find the way. Many places there are more trash, empty bottles and toilet paper than the traditional arrows.
For a period of time, the Camino is our home. In most homes, it is not accepted to to throw leftovers on the floor, not to mention toilet paper or to defecate on the carpet. Why should this be accepted on the Camino? Do some people think that they are alone?? THEY ARE NOT!
The problem is easily solved. Use a bag such that dog owners use to pick up your leftovers. ( Dog owners can use this, so why can't we?) Put this in the plastic bag that you got when in a shop. Then you put this in an air and watertight bag, that you can get for a small sum in any sport shop. No smell and no mess! Then you can leave your leftovers in a garbage bin at the alberge or when you pass one on your way. By doing this, you will have a clear conscience, and you will make many people happy.
Let the air and waterproof bag hanging on your rucksack be the new symbol showing that you know that you are not alone on the Camino,-- or wherever you are walking out in nature.
Maybe even somebody can start a campaign and sell or even give away such bags with the label: "YOU ARE NOT ALONE!"
Buen and KLEEN Camino!
Powerful words! I always try to recommend people never assume or make note of any "ugly" part of the Camino. We hear leaving certain towns are "ugly" but the Camino embraces who we are speaking with, whats in our mind at the time, who our company is and conversation...it's like an onion with all its layers...how can we decide what is "ugly"?Though every prospect pleases, and only man is vile.... (Good old Anglican hymn, 'From Greenland's Icy Mountains', words by Bishop Heber.)
We see what we want to see, I suppose. Earlier this year I walked most of the Frances (3rd time) and then the Finisterre (1st time).... All I saw was the beauty around me. I'm sure that there were people pooping in the bushes but I saw very little evidence of it.
But then, I must go on to confess that I'm easily pleased. I enjoy the 'ugly' urban bits every bit as much as the 'pretty' rustic bits. It's the towns and cities that fascinate. Where vile man resides....
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