dpatterson0516
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino del Norte
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I couldn't agree more....Finished the central from Oporto a couple of weeks ago...the first few days along the roads were so dangerous....the people in this area do not even think about pulling over to give you room, and quite often there is 0 shoulder and a wall ....take any variants that get you off the roads....I walked the Portuguese Coastal from Porto and San Salvador this spring after my life changing experience on the Norte and Primitivo in autumn 2022. This autumn I tackled the Portuguese Central from Lisbon and had 100's of close encounters with too fast and too close drivers in Portugal. One near Ambruja was almost life ending as a transport truck came directly at me at high speed on a highway with no shoulder. I moved as far away from the truck as possible, slipped fell to the ground and watched vehicle tires whiz 6 inches from my face until there was a break in traffic and I regained my feet. I had no such issues in Spain. The close calls on the narrow roads in Portugal were daily and multiple. I am interested in your experience on the Central.
Wow, that’s an awful experience. I walked from Tomar to Santiago in 2015 and while I didn’t notice the drivers were so bad, the lack of shoulders and the amount of road walking made it not too pleasant at times. The section north of Porto is actually much nicer than the section south of Porto as far as road walking is concerned.I walked the Portuguese Coastal from Porto and San Salvador this spring after my life changing experience on the Norte and Primitivo in autumn 2022. This autumn I tackled the Portuguese Central from Lisbon and had 100's of close encounters with too fast and too close drivers in Portugal. One near Ambruja was almost life ending as a transport truck came directly at me at high speed on a highway with no shoulder. I moved as far away from the truck as possible, slipped fell to the ground and watched vehicle tires whiz 6 inches from my face until there was a break in traffic and I regained my feet. I had no such issues in Spain. The close calls on the narrow roads in Portugal were daily and multiple. I am interested in your experience on the Central.
YesWondering if that also applies in Portugal?
When I was walking from Lisbon there were many pilgrims in groups walking to Fatima. Almost all of them were wearing safety vests.I think it was @NorthernLight who posted on another thread that it was Spanish Law requirement for people walking on roads to wear high visibility vests. I’m trying to track it down.
Wondering if that also applies in Portugal?
I do the same while training (still haven’t walked) I’ve found that two poles sticking out stop drivers from getting too close… especially when cars are new and they obviously want to avoid a scratch on their carsWhilst I haven't walked that part, where there is no pavement I hold my walking poles sideways across my chest with the points sticking well out into the road. It appears to have an effect on car drivers, not sure about lorry drivers!
I did the same and felt like a matador at times.Whilst I haven't walked that part, where there is no pavement I hold my walking poles sideways across my chest with the points sticking well out into the road. It appears to have an effect on car drivers, not sure about lorry drivers!
I think that law only required high visibility vests at night/in the dark. Although I could be misremembering.I think it was @NorthernLight who posted on another thread that it was Spanish Law requirement for people walking on roads to wear high visibility vests. I’m trying to track it down.
Wondering if that also applies in Portugal?
Having said that I haven’t seen many pilgrims doing that…a quick scan of Amazon idéntica heaps of high vis backpack covers and high vis backpack patches. None seem expensive (~$10).
I've seen some really bad drivers recently, and it can be quite frightening having to jump into the ditch to avoid getting squashed by a speeding numbskull. Doing a little idle googling when I got to my hotel, I was not surprised to find that (according to WHO figures) the Portuguese are the most dangerous drivers in Western Europe - over 60% more road deaths per capita than Spain, more than double the English rate and treble the Scandinavian.
Just noticed this thread. Even Portuguese people will, if pushed to answer, admit they are not the world´s best drivers. Here are some recent statistics: Deaths per million inhabitants, Sweden, 27 (lowest in Europe); UK 28, Spain 39, Portugal 57. I rest my case.I walked the Torres and then the Geira e Dos Arrieiros last year. I was really quite shocked how bad the Portuguese drivers were, considering how charming and polite most of them are once away from their steering wheels. This is what I wrote then:
I note that the greatest proportion of Portugals fatalities are record as being on rural roads, which may reflect the state of the infrastructure in those areas.
Whilst Portugals road deaths are currently bove the European Union average, they have been one of the most improved in reducing the road toll over the past 10 years. There are plenty of other countries above them on the list.
I’m not trying to defend a poor road record, rather I think that there maybe other factors at play. Simply saying that “Portugues are bad drivers” really is a lazy assessment and characterisers all drivers in Portugal unfairly.
If ¨we¨ means Americans, I have to say that I don´t think you are any more aggressive than drivers in other countries. In fact, from admittedly limited personal observation I´d say the opposite.We are aggressive drivers.
Back in the 1980s I taught a Portuguese doctor (English) and I asked him if there was an area of medical treatment where Portuguese doctors had especial expertise, he said there was, it was treating head and brain trauma. I asked him why, he said ´Look at all those teenagers on mopeds and no helmets. What do you expect?´ Here in Australia, single vehicle accidents in rural areas are a big problem. I suspect the US and Portugal are the same. Conversely, the low death rate in the UK may be because the roads are so crowded nobody can drive more than 30mph.I note that the greatest proportion of Portugals fatalities are record as being on rural roads, which may reflect the state of the infrastructure in those areas.
Having taken that same path out of Lisbon this past October, I can attest, there are some hairy stretches. I quickly learned Portuguese drivers don't slow down when passing a pilgrim and most don't slide to the other side of the road even when the opportunity exists. Given that, i did have one of those camino moments and thank the driver: I was walking outside of a small town and up ahead the road split right and left. The arrow up ahead appeared to be pointing left and I was on the right. I began to cross the road, but I could hear a car approaching. I thought I had enough time to cross without incident. I got across and could hear the car approaching. Soon it was on my side (should have been on other side). Then it was right next to me. I prepared for the scream. The window opened. Here it comes, I thought. Out came a fresh bottle of water and a harty buen camino.I walked the Portuguese Coastal from Porto and San Salvador this spring after my life changing experience on the Norte and Primitivo in autumn 2022. This autumn I tackled the Portuguese Central from Lisbon and had 100's of close encounters with too fast and too close drivers in Portugal. One near Ambruja was almost life ending as a transport truck came directly at me at high speed on a highway with no shoulder. I moved as far away from the truck as possible, slipped fell to the ground and watched vehicle tires whiz 6 inches from my face until there was a break in traffic and I regained my feet. I had no such issues in Spain. The close calls on the narrow roads in Portugal were daily and multiple. I am interested in your experience on the Central.
@JCLima, it is such a cultural conundrum to me, I wonder if sociologists have tackled this question in some advanced research.I have lived in other countries and can feel the difference between their driving and ours.
Sure, not all Portuguese drivers are bad, but as a whole, we suck. There's no need to make excuses.
I started in Lisbon one year, but after 5 days of near-death experiences on narrow highways etc, and freuently found lorry drivers in petrol stations having a "rest" beer or two, I quit, and took a train to Porto and walked from there.I walked the Portuguese Coastal from Porto and San Salvador this spring after my life changing experience on the Norte and Primitivo in autumn 2022. This autumn I tackled the Portuguese Central from Lisbon and had 100's of close encounters with too fast and too close drivers in Portugal. One near Ambruja was almost life ending as a transport truck came directly at me at high speed on a highway with no shoulder. I moved as far away from the truck as possible, slipped fell to the ground and watched vehicle tires whiz 6 inches from my face until there was a break in traffic and I regained my feet. I had no such issues in Spain. The close calls on the narrow roads in Portugal were daily and multiple. I am interested in your experience on the Central.
I do know about the speed radars, but I'm not sure it the two things are related; it's probably just a coincidence (I might be totally wrong!)@JCLima, it is such a cultural conundrum to me, I wonder if sociologists have tackled this question in some advanced research.
I drove a car in Portugal just a few months ago, from Lisbon to Bragança and back with lots of meandering in between. I definitely noticed lower speeds on the Autovias. In the past, cars would roar by when I was at the speed limit, surely going 160 or 180. But this year that happened very very rarely. One of my students in Lisbon suggested it might be because there are new remote traffic control devices like speed cameras. He said, though, that the legality of these devices is being challenged. Do you know anything about this?
That said, it didn’t ruin my experience at all.After 2 days out of Lisbon, I bought a yellow safety jacket, the same the numerous Fatima pilgrims all wearing. I felt safer.
I think the problem is more the configuration of the path than the reckless driving. It is indeed impressive on some parts as you are so close to the road.
The worst part for me was between Azinhaga and Golega (stage 5). I only realized once arrived that I missed an alternative path to that dangerous cobblestone road.
I had no issues with drivers on the Portuguese Coastal this April. There were few high speed/high traffic roads and a greater police presence. On the Central I didn't see a cop between Lisbon and Porto. Then no cops until Spain. Also there were very few narrow, walled cobblestone roads on the coastal.Made good experience on the Coastal with drivers. Very polite and pilgrim-friendly. Same on the 4 days in Spain after walking up from Caminha to Tui. No major issues. But I had no major issues in 2019 on the Francés, either. Maybe it's a seasonal thing, like I walk only in July (vacation time)?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?