Spanish or Portuguese?

[Mark2012]

I'm going to be walking from Porto to Santiago and on to Finisterre this coming June, and I'm wondering about the language situation.

I walked the Camino Frances last year, and found that my efforts to learn Spanish in the lead-up didn't work out very well. I listened to a lot of language learning mp3s, but found that most of what I thought I had learned fell out of my head once I actually got out there. It wasn't a big deal, as invariably I was with people whose Spanish was better than mine, so I rarely had to do the talking.

Anyway, so this year I'll be walking in Portugal and Spain. So, I'm wondering what is the best way to handle the language issues. Would I be better served looking to improve my Spanish and rely on that, or learn Portuguese instead? I would try to work on both languages at the same time, but that might be overly ambitious!!!

 

[fraluchi]

Would I be better served looking to improve my Spanish and rely on that, or learn Portuguese instead? I would try to work on both languages at the same time, but that might be overly ambitious!!!

Since you intend to be mainly in Portuguese speaking areas, the latter language is probably your best bet. Galicia's language leans towards Portuguese, whereas the official language is Spanish, the similarities may be of better use to you.

 

[alexwalker]

Mark,
You raise a good issue, Thanks!

I will be walking in May this year: Will my (poor) Spanish work in Portugal, or should I get into learning some Portugise now? It (my Spanish) works fairly well in Spain, I have been told by Spanish fellow peregrinos... Maybe they were just polite... :wink:

Answers much appreciated!

 

[sulu]

Written Portuguese is similar to written Galician but when spoken it it very different. Galicians speak Spanish when they go to Portugal. You can usually get by with Spanish but it is worthwhile learning things like; Good morning, please and thank you- these being; Bom dia, faz favor and obrigado.

 

[newfydog]

We found many Portuguese people spoke French (many had worked there), but few wanted to speak Spanish. Weird. When we got to the Spanish border, there was a big "Espana" sign, with "Merde" spray painted over it. Maybe they had just lost a key soccer game or something.

 

[peregrino_tom]

my experience was that Portuguese people were far less hung up about people speaking their language than say the French or Spanish. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't make an effort!
But if you are hopeless like me, then it is handy that many of the older generation speak basic French, like the type I learned in school. And the young ones would figure you for English/American or at least someone understanding more English than Portuguese and often start the conversation in English. I found people so friendly that when I did have to resort to sign language it usually ended up bringing out a few smiles (of pity probably).
I think I must have said 'Bom Dia!' to between thirty and fifty people most days. the mystery was exactly what time you'd get the switchover to 'Boa Tarde'...

 

[scruffy1]

Hi Tom
Forget trying to speak Poruguese! Its not that difficult to read since much is close enough to Spanish to help you through. To speak? To understand when spoken to? Both totally differnt matters. Portuguese sounds a bit like Spanish with a heavy Russian/Eastern European/Slavic accent and despite their being wonderful people and the Brazilians as well the language is impossible, try your best with a few polite phrases but but rely on English, Spanish or Spanglish will be your best bet. There is usually someone around to help. Try this for a start http://www.peaceful-portugal.com/typical-portuguese-menu.htm or here http://www.golisbon.com/practical-lisbon/language.html
The golisbon site offers a food glossary which is difficult to work but everything is there from soup to nuts.
Scruffy

 

[robertt]

The librarian in Valenca, just metres from Spain, spoke no Spanish, just English and Portuguese. Actually, I got the impression she really did not want to speak Spanish, whether she could or not. What's going on there?

Australians aren't a bit like that. We always make a big effort to understand New Zealandish.

 

[peregrino_tom]

Scruffy - thanks. I opened one of those links and the first word that came up was bacalhau. It reminded me how crazy the portuguese are about this fish. In one place I made the mistake of describing it as being a bit dull and chewy. The mood in the room darkened - but somehow I got out alive.
robertt - yes, I noticed that too. Sometimes Portuguese people making a point of not speaking Spanish - especially when Spanish people were present. A gentle but very effective wind-up...

 

[Violinpatrick]

Speaking the local language is helpful but not necessary. My wife, nephew, and I got by fine on the Portuguese without knowing any more than greetings and thanks. It takes a good attitude, persistence, and a smile. My nephew, who is Korean, barely speaks English but was able to communicate even be wanted to. Don't be shy about acting out what you want. Squawk and act like a chicken if you want chicken. Then listen and you'll learn the word for chicken.

 

[Davroos]

I walked the Portuguese route and to be honest, even though I tried a mixture of badly spoken Portuguese/Italian/Spanish, loads of people spoke English, and they were not shy in showing.

Crossing over at Tui, it was a different story, the Spanish speak Spanish !!!

 

[DurhamParish]

I walked the Camino Portugues from Porto to Santiago last September and can't speak lick of Spanish or Portuguese (some say I can barely speak English) and got by with no difficulty. The only disappointment I had was the missed opportunity to communicate, even at a rudimentary level, with some marvelous people I met along the way.

Fortunately, I did run into many pilgrims who did speak English as a second language. It was my first Camino and one of the most marevlous times of my life.

I came home and bought the Rosetta Stone for Spanish.

 

[rhackman]

I came home and bought the Rosetta Stone for Spanish.

Congratulations on your Rosetta Stone purchase, Durham......are you using it? :|

I think that most of us here in the States need a crash course in one or two non-English languages. I certainly do.

 

[Diogo92]

Hi there everybody, Portuguese guy over here

First of all, thank you all for your good answers about our country and language.

Second of all, I will explain you something's about facts that you have mentioned in here:

- Most Portuguese don’t like to speech Spanish (which actual name is castellano) because we are rivals since, well, ever I think :lol: This some sort of "tradition" has centuries of age, but it tends to get better and better for the right way. We now accept more the Spanish people than before.

- You talked about some old people who talk French. Well it’s true, because since we lived in dictatorship for about 50 years, many people emigrated from Portugal to France, and lived in there until the end of the dictatorship. So probably you’ve been talking with some people who had lived and worked there or simply have family in there and that can say some words that have learned with them.

- We do appreciate that you can talk a little bit of our language. It’s good, and it feel’s well to see a person from abroad to say an “Obrigado” (Thank You). Don’t be shy if you misspelled it. We know that sometimes it can be difficult.
About the bacalhau (Cod Fish), personally I hate it, but it’s considered a national dish. We have more that 365 ways to make it, so has you can see we are a little bit crazy about this fish heheheh

So my advices are: try to learn the basics. Most of us can speak a little bit of English or French, and hey, keep a smile that will help you.

Bom Caminho, Peregrino

 

[Diogo92]

Things that you should learn:

Obrigado > Thank You
Bom Dia > Good Morning
Boa Tarde > Good Afternoon (starting 12:00pm)
Boa Noite > Good Evening/Night (starting 18:00pm)
Por Favor > Please
Water > Água
I’m searching for > Procuro…

 

[Mark2012]

Thinks that you should learn:

Obrigado > Thank You
Bom Dia > Good Morning
Boa Tarde > Good Afternoon (starting 12:00pm)
Boa Noite > Good Evening/Night (starting 18:00pm)
Por Favor > Please
Water > Água
I’m searching for > Procuro…

Thank you for your posts, Diogo. Or perhaps I should say 'obrigado'! ;-)

 

[Diogo92]

You're welcome Mark. If you have any other questions, just ask

 

[ekas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Obrigado/a gender modified? Though no one will throw a fit about it (they're more likely to be happy you tried), you may get some curious smiles if you use the wrong gender.

When I walked the Portuguese last year I had little trouble communicating as you are more likely to find someone who speaks English in Portugal than you are in France/Spain. Also keep in mind that communication is not limited to speaking - hand gestures can get you a long way (well unless you intend to discuss philosophy or nuclear physics :wink: )

 

[Diogo92]

ekas, "Obrigado" it's the right way to say it. If you search in a Portuguese dictionary, you will see that the correct way it's "Obrigado" and that there isn’t a gender proposition for the word. Usually people use the "Obrigada", but incorrectly. It's like a some sort of popular evolution of the word.

And yes, you can use the old sign language that works perfectly in many situations hehehe. It even works with me in the Hotel where I work, when sometimes costumers don’t speak many English or any other language that I can talk.

Best regards
Diogo

 

[edumad]

If you have to choose one language or the other, I'd say Spanish.

Portuguese are more relaxed about tourists not speaking the language than the Spanish (from my experience and reports from friends):
The two languages are very similar, and I find most portuguese will understand allot of spoken and written spanish with little problem. Because of this and historical "differences" there is not allot of incentive to learn.
I had a school tour to Galicia when I was in high school and our guide spoke only galician, no one had any problem understanding her.

Valença being a border town that receives allot of spanish should accommodate that, so that is weird... It might be from the fact that it is literally on the border, and as is evidenced by the Fortification, hostility towards the would-be invaders is perhaps engrained in the character of the town.

Cod fish, you must understand is culinary gold mine. Boiled, roasted, fried, baked, you cannot go wrong. It must be the dried and salted one of course and not a crappy quality one.

But learn a few words of Portuguese, and smiles will surely be the reward.

 

[santaremhostel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Obrigado/a gender modified? Though no one will throw a fit about it (they're more likely to be happy you tried), you may get some curious smiles if you use the wrong gender.

When I walked the Portuguese last year I had little trouble communicating as you are more likely to find someone who speaks English in Portugal than you are in France/Spain. Also keep in mind that communication is not limited to speaking - hand gestures can get you a long way (well unless you intend to discuss philosophy or nuclear physics :wink: )

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Obrigado/a gender modified? Though no one will throw a fit about it (they're more likely to be happy you tried), you may get some curious smiles if you use the wrong gender.

When I walked the Portuguese last year I had little trouble communicating as you are more likely to find someone who speaks English in Portugal than you are in France/Spain. Also keep in mind that communication is not limited to speaking - hand gestures can get you a long way (well unless you intend to discuss philosophy or nuclear physics :wink: )

You're welcome Mark. If you have any other questions, just ask

Hello Ekas and Diogo92

Regarding the Obrigado or Obrigada gender modified issue, the correct saying it is not clear among us so, fell free to say it the way you want it with a smile and that's all. Just for your information, if you use it as an adjective, then it's gender modified. Obrigado/a means obliged to or in dept to. I am obliged to you for something you did or say to me. So I (men say obrigado) or (woman say - obrigada) am obliged/debt to you. However, if you use it as an interjection, meaning casual conversation, no adjective, then gender should not be considered, and obrigado it's correct, as interjection as no gender, and that is the way we use it.
Now, there is another word which is Agradeço meaning Grateful. Your choice, but keep smiling ~

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

I loved the camino Portuguese.
Interestingly, I found most Portuguese preferred to speak in English rather than Spanish..... I managed to book into one hostel where the receptionist spoke neither English nor Spanish. It's amazing what you can do with facial expressions and signs!!
I found the Portugese people to be very helpful and friendly ... I believe they are just about the only nation in Europe who the British have never fought!
Bom caminho!

 

[santaremhostel]

I loved the camino Portuguese.
Interestingly, I found most Portuguese preferred to speak in English rather than Spanish..... I managed to book into one hostel where the receptionist spoke neither English nor Spanish. It's amazing what you can do with facial expressions and signs!!
I found the Portugese people to be very helpful and friendly ... I believe they are just about the only nation in Europe who the British have never fought!
Bom caminho!

Hello Sephen, how are you?
More than that the British helped us on the French invasions (N.Bonaparte) and the allied powers of Spain. There is a monument to the Heroes of the Peninsula War ( 1807 - 1814) in Oporto (Rotunda da Boavista) where you can find a lion (England flag symbol) on the top of an eagle (France flag symbol). So, probably that is one of the reasons why you have found more Portuguese speaking English than Spanish. More info here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War

Bom Caminho

 

[wayfarer]

I agree with many of the above posters, there is no need to learn Portugese but good manners dictates that you should learn the basic phrases as found in Diogos post. I found the Portugese people to be very friendly and helpful, I would even say on par with the Irish.

 

[Diogo92]

Hello Ekas and Diogo92

Regarding the Obrigado or Obrigada gender modified issue, the correct saying it is not clear among us so, fell free to say it the way you want it with a smile and that's all. Just for your information, if you use it as an adjective, then it's gender modified. Obrigado/a means obliged to or in dept to. I am obliged to you for something you did or say to me. So I (men say obrigado) or (woman say - obrigada) am obliged/debt to you. However, if you use it as an interjection, meaning casual conversation, no adjective, then gender should not be considered, and obrigado it's correct, as interjection as no gender, and that is the way we use it.
Now, there is another word which is Agradeço meaning Grateful. Your choice, but keep smiling ~

Era mesmo ai que eu queria chegar!

Grande abraço

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

Hello Sephen, how are you? More than that the British helped us on the French invasions (N.Bonaparte) and the allied powers of Spain. There is a monument to the Heroes of the Peninsula War ( 1807 - 1814) in Oporto (Rotunda da Boavista) where you can find a lion (England flag symbol) on the top of an eagle (France flag symbol). So, probably that is one of the reasons why you have found more Portuguese speaking English than Spanish. More info here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War
Bom Caminho

"Santaremhostel"?! Is that the new hostel in Santarem of which my diary says "Meanwhile I booked into the new hostel - a lovely place, with kitchens, lounge and even internet." If so, what a pleasure to find you on this forum. I loved staying there.
The monument in Porto? Yes - I have this picture to remind me....


Great to meet up again with you, my friend in Santarem!
Bom caminho!

 

[santaremhostel]

Yes Stephen, it's me. It was a great time with You, Gerry, Enrico, Donal and Eilsa.
Here is a picture:

Also, there is a private joke about this monument and the two (rivals) Lisbon football teams;
Sporting (Lion) and Benfica (eagle) guess my team...
But this is not the proper forum for this issues so, hope to see you in soon, cheers.
Bom Caminho

 

[santaremhostel]

Era mesmo ai que eu queria chegar!

Grande abraço

Olá Diogo. Sim, percebi a sua mensagem, mas dizer agradecido devia ser o correcto.
Enfim, os costumes fazem a cultura por isso, obrigado e um abraço

 

[PEI_Heather]

Hi Mario! My friends Sheila (from the USA) and Sebastian (from Germany) and I (from Canada) stayed at your hostel in October (16th, I think). (I bought a credential from you; there weren't any to be purchased on Saturday or Sunday, when we left, at the Cathedral in Lisbon.) I have to tell you that we all agreed it was one of the most beautiful hostels and places we stayed at on our journey from Lisboa to Santiago. And the evening meal? Delicious and spent with the most excellent of company!

We made it to Porrino, in Spain before Sebastian had to make haste home to his family; his father had had a heart attack. (His father, is fine now and doing well, Sebastian told us both in an email, about a week later.) Sheila and I continued on and made it to Santiago. And then to Muxia, Finisterre and finally Cee, where we ended our walking and took the roller coaster, I mean, the bus, back to Santiago.

I hope to get back to Portugal to walk the Camino again; a stay at your hostel will be a certainty!

Bon tarde!
Heather

 

[santaremhostel]

Hi Mario! My friends Sheila (from the USA) and Sebastian (from Germany) and I (from Canada) stayed at your hostel in October (16th, I think). (I bought a credential from you; there weren't any to be purchased on Saturday or Sunday, when we left, at the Cathedral in Lisbon.) I have to tell you that we all agreed it was one of the most beautiful hostels and places we stayed at on our journey from Lisboa to Santiago. And the evening meal? Delicious and spent with the most excellent of company!

We made it to Porrino, in Spain before Sebastian had to make haste home to his family; his father had had a heart attack. (His father, is fine now and doing well, Sebastian told us both in an email, about a week later.) Sheila and I continued on and made it to Santiago. And then to Muxia, Finisterre and finally Cee, where we ended our walking and took the roller coaster, I mean, the bus, back to Santiago.

I hope to get back to Portugal to walk the Camino again; a stay at your hostel will be a certainty!

Bon tarde!
Heather

Hi Heather. Good to have news from you guys. Sorry about Sebastian... but hopefully father is ok. Yes the credentials are, and will be, available in Santarém Hostel a relief for many pilgrims that for some reason could get one in Lisbon.
Thanks for your kind words and hope to see you in a near future.
Bom caminho
Mario
Santarém Hostel

 

[PEI_Heather]

You know it, Mario! Hopefully sometime in the next few years!

 

[Former member 12499]

I listened to a lot of language learning mp3s, but found that most of what I thought I had learned fell out of my head once I actually got out there.

I have exactly the same problem as you Mark. I really tried to learn Spanish when I did my Camino in April 2012 but when I started my pilgrimage, the words just seemed to disappear.

This year I have been out in Tenerife over Christmas and I was determined to brush up on my Spanish vocabularly whilst I was there. But the same problem occurred again. As soon as I got off the aeroplane and the sun came out; the Spanish knowledge just seem to be vacuumed out of my head!

After about four days in Tenerife, I was getting a little tired of drinking coffee and being English I was desperate for a decent cup of tea. I took myself off to the local supermarket and had a wander about trying to find the tea. No such luck, I could not find it.

I asked one of the Spanish lady shop assistants' in my best/worst Spanish, where the the tea / tea bags were?

She promptly took me to the Cocal Cola and fizzy drinks section!

Frantically, I started to panic and started to make stirring circles in the air as if I was stirring a cup of tea and saying in English – 'tea bags'.

The penny then dropped with the lady and she said 'Aah BAGS TEA' and she then took me to where the tea bags were located.

I still can't figure out what I said to the lady for her to take me to the fizzy drinks section...

Charlie

 

[Diogo92]

I listened to a lot of language learning mp3s, but found that most of what I thought I had learned fell out of my head once I actually got out there.

I have exactly the same problem as you Mark. I really tried to learn Spanish when I did my Camino in April 2012 but when I started my pilgrimage, the words just seemed to disappear.

This year I have been out in Tenerife over Christmas and I was determined to brush up on my Spanish vocabularly whilst I was there. But the same problem occurred again. As soon as I got off the aeroplane and the sun came out; the Spanish knowledge just seem to be vacuumed out of my head!

After about four days in Tenerife, I was getting a little tired of drinking coffee and being English I was desperate for a decent cup of tea. I took myself off to the local supermarket and had a wander about trying to find the tea. No such luck, I could not find it.

I asked one of the Spanish lady shop assistants' in my best/worst Spanish, where the the tea / tea bags were?

She promptly took me to the Cocal Cola and fizzy drinks section!

Frantically, I started to panic and started to make stirring circles in the air as if I was stirring a cup of tea and saying in English – 'tea bags'.

The penny then dropped with the lady and she said 'Aah BAGS TEA' and she then took me to where the tea bags were located.

I still can't figure out what I said to the lady for her to take me to the fizzy drinks section...

Charlie

You have said tea, which may reffer to Ice Tea, which is a drink that both in Portugal and Spain it's sold by Lipton.

Tea in spanish it's called "té" and in Portuguese "chá."

Best Regards
Diogo

 

[Former member 12499]

Thanks for the advice Diogo. I will certainly remember that - besides still trying to improve my Spanish.

Chas

 

[Jenniandjoe]

We walked this route last year and were surprised at how many Portuguese people speak English. They are also very friendly and helpful. We also spoke some Portuguese but had we not, there would not have been to many difficulties. I think you will love the Portuguese camino!