Teenagers on pilgrimage summer 2015

[Hroswitha]

I work with a group of teens at my episcopal church who are considering doing the Camino next summer. What we want to do is a little off the beaten track, and I'm having difficulty figuring out how to do this.

They want to fly into Paris. From there, we want to pick up a guide and a vehicle to take us all south. There will be 5 teens (4 girls, 1 boy) and 4 adults (two male, two female). Some of us will have a bit of French and Spanish, but no fluent speakers. Thus, we want a guide and driver, preferably the same person.

South of Paris we want to stop in to visit the Lascaux caves. It's been part of our study over the past two years, and we shouldn't pass up the opportunity to see them.

From there, we would pick up the Camino proper. We want to take our time going over the Pyrenees, stopping at local shrines and really getting a feel for the area. We would then walk the last 100 km or so into the shrine.

As we're going with teens, we will not want to spend the night in hostels. It's important to protect the teenagers, and they will not share bedrooms or bathrooms with strangers.

We are expecting to spend around 10 days in the country to do this trip. I can't find a pilgrimage tour site willing to accommodate our plans. Can anyone help me with ideas on how to arrange this?

 

[Kanga]

I'm having a little trouble working out the logistics. Have you looked at the distances?

 

[Kiwi-family]

I'm unsure what you want to protect them from.
Could I encourage you to consider staying in albergues - I just spent two months doing exactly that with four children (worse adult/child ratio than you've managed to come up with) and we never felt unsafe. Quite the opposite in fact - other pilgrims went out of their way to ensure the children were safe (even more than I did as their mother). You will not be disappointed.
Besides, sharing showers would be good for those teens;-)

 

[Hroswitha]

The question on the type of lodgings the kids will be in isn't up to me. The church dictates a lot of this. The teens have to be fully chaperoned on the trip and will not be in intimate contact with anyone not vetted by them. Even the adults accompanying the kids have to go through a background check and get certified. So that part is pretty non-negotiable.

 

[Hroswitha]

Kanga - are you thinking this is too much and too great a distance to do in 10 days? At this point, we can stretch it and, if we must, spend up to 14 days on the trip. There's a lot I don't know - how long it takes to walk the last leg of the journey, for example.

Any advice or ideas will be considered happily. I appreciate anything I can get.

 

[wayfarer]

The last 100kms will take four to five days walking distances of 20 to 25 kms a day, a lot if they have not trained. The rest is drivable doing long trips if you want to visit places along the way. Accommodation can be prebooked throughout the journey but it will take some planning. I don't understand bringing kids all the way to Europe and not let them mix with anyone else along the way, that is part of the whole experience and will be a great experience for them otherwise what is the point.
Buen Camino.

 

[Kanga]

I think you need to sit down with a map and do a bit of planning around distances, taking into account the things you want to do.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Anniesantiago is too modest to self-promote (and it is prohibited anyway), but she offers planning services. She may be able to help you.

http://anniecarvalho.weebly.com/

 

[xin loi]

Stayed in Albergues with some of the nicest teenagers I have ever met. Some got tired of walking with their "Old Parents" and were a day or two ahead of them. Think you need to change churches if yours has a problem with teenagers meeting strangers.

 

[Hroswitha]

Thank you for the ideas. You're right - I was already questioning how far they could walk in a day and whether the last stretch could be done in 3 days.

Please don't think the teens won't be meeting people - that's the whole point of this pilgrimage. However, they won't be sleeping in rooms with strangers. What we choose to do with our own children is our choice. If I were taking my own son on this journey, I would absolutely stay in the pilgrim accommodations. Most of the time, what you put toward people is what you receive back, especially on a trip like this. But these aren't my children. The families have to make those decisions, which makes it more difficult.

 

[Hroswitha]

Can someone give me an explanation of what an albergue is? What are the accommodations like, how large are the sleeping rooms, are showers available, can they be booked in advance? I may be able to sell this, but I would need more information.

 

[Arn]

Hi,
You mention this is a church group, but not whether this pilgrimage is officially sponsored/supported thru the church. If the group is made up of parishioners whom are also friends outside of church, why not go on pilgrimage as a group of like interests friends. I'm sure the parents that are not going trust the parents that are to properly supervise and maintain proper decorum, or they wouldn't allow the function in the first place.

To your last question: albergues are different. Some have open dorms, separate bathrooms and showers, with very few having open showers. This is common with many sports/music/cheerleading/scout camps in the US.

You have time to plan and work out the particulars. Keep the Forum members in the loop and most of your most pressing questions/concerns will be answered.

Buen Camino,

Arn

 

[Hroswitha]

This is an officially sponsored pilgrimage, and the teens of the church go on a trip like this every 3 years. Four adults will be going, but none of the parents of these kids. We will have one minister/priest with us to administer sacraments along the way.

We will only walk the last 100 km of the trip, but despite the physical hardships, I'm really looking forward to that the most. The kind of communion with my fellow pilgrim is what will make this trip memorable and fantastic.

We will need a vehicle and a driver to leave Paris and get to Spain, though, and I have no idea how to arrange that or how much it will cost. Also, would it be cheaper to fly into Paris and out through Madrid or Spain, or would it be better to have the guide and vehicle meet us in Santiago and drive back to Paris? Or take a train back to Paris instead? There are so many things I don't know.

thank you to anyone who can help me figure this out. I'm really relying on the kindness and expertise of strangers here.

 

[Kiwi-family]

You could do a quick google search of flight options and train and bus options and then compare, taking into account the amount of time you have (or get a travel agent to do so for you)
Useful sites would include ALSA, Eurolines, RENFE, seat61
These will be helpful for your pre-camino trip from Paris too. You may not need to hire a guide if you find alternative transport. Public transport in Europe is excellent.

Also, if the group is unused to hiking, I would be inclined to spend six days getting from Sarria to Santiago. Then you probably want another day in Santiago before heading home. It will take the good part of a day to get back to Paris or on to Madrid.

 

[Kanga]

Can someone give me an explanation of what an albergue is? What are the accommodations like, how large are the sleeping rooms, are showers available, can they be booked in advance? I may be able to sell this, but I would need more information.

They vary enormously. They are like youth camps or my old boarding school - the old albergues have large dormitories with bunk beds, the new ones have individual pods with private, single sleeping spaces. Bathrooms are like those in gyms or a youth camp or a holiday camp - yes, with hot showers! And often communal kitchens and pleasant places to sit and share stories.

Many school groups in Spain go on Camino and they often book ahead and sometimes take over the whole albergue. Some albergues are small, only sleeping ten or so people, some are huge. There are threads on this forum linking to lists of albergues with details of what they offer.

 

[Dutch]

So you want a guide and a driver who knows his way around Paris, the rest of France, Spain and the camino and you want him to join you the whole time, even while walking the camino? Or have him wait somewhere while you walk?

Pfjew, no wonder you haven't found anybody yet. Sounds like a mission impossible.
Do you have a very big budget, just for this? Sounds like you would need it.

Why not just hire a van (with sat nav) for 9 people and go at it alone. Its really not that difficult to drive from Paris to and trough the Pyrenees and then towards Santiago (or Sarria). Its also very safe to do, if that worries you.
If you hire a van at hertz or europcar or budget, for a fee you can drop it of in, lets say, Madrid and then fly put from there.
Personally, i think this is the most simple and best solution for what you want.

Albergues, try to book ahead for the group. Maybe you can find albergues with smaller dorms, where you are the only ones sleeping in one of the dorm-rooms. You will still meet other pilgrims staying in the other rooms.

Why need a guide? What would his function be?

 

[sriyantra]

As a retired teacher I acknowledge the big "duty of care" factor facing you.

I would look at adult/student ratios and make sure you have plenty of suitably qualified and informed people to accompany the group and that they are very familiar with the demands of walking the Camino - on all levels, physical, mental and spiritual. Keep in mind that sickness and accidents occur and have plans and contingency plans in place for every possibility, and that there will always be one teenager who will push the boundaries and rules!

If you have someone who can use social media try to get in touch with the school groups that Kanga has mentioned. That way you are not reinventing the wheel and it would save an enormous amount of research time for you.

 

[Metropolly]

The difficulty, as I understand it, is arranging for a driver to take you from Paris all the way to Sarria.
Paris is a long drive from the Lascaux caves, along toll roads. Perhaps you would find it easier to arrange for a driver to pick you up at a major train terminus closer to the caves. French TGV trains can take you easily and quickly from Paris to Limoges or Clermont-Ferrand. If you are worried about negotiating Paris you can take taxis from the airport to the relevant train station - details on SNCF.com.
If I were arranging this trip I would be looking for a driver in Santiago or Leon. The pilgrim office in Santiago might be a good place to start making enquiries. I'm assuming you would be paying for the driver's food and lodging too, which as I understand it would have to be separate from you and the children. That will add to the cost, but as it's non-negotiable you need to include it in your planning.
As for accommodation for you and the kids, you'll find plenty of hotels along the way. Try typing the town's name into booking.com to start with. Otherwise you'll find listings in any of the Camino guide books you'll see.
As I understand it you will drive over the Pyrenees, stopping at major pilgrim shrines along the way to Sarria. You'll need to make a list of the sites you intend to visit, and perhaps arrange your overnight stages accordingly. Allow time for spur-of-the-moment stops. If you allow yourself a week from Paris to Sarria, that leaves you a week to walk 100km and enjoy Santiago before flying home. All of this is possible, but it will not be cheap

 

[Dutch]

Is Lascaux really important to visit?
Thinking again about this, if you want to do all this by car, your gonna have a trip where you will end up rushing from one place to the next. 10-14 days isn't much for what you want to do.

Are you going to Paris for Paris? Or only to go from there to Lascaux?

I would suggest, skip Lascaux (if its an option). Visit Paris, then fly or train ( both can be very cheap) to Biarritz/Bayonne and make your way to Saint Jean Pied de port. From there you will surely find someone to take you by car over the Pyrenees with a stop here and there and drop you of in Pamplona.
When in Pamplona, hire yourself a van. Car hire is cheap in Spain (compared to other european counties). Then you can follow the whole camino by car. Stop at Sarria. Park the car there somewhere or if possible, drop it of at a drop off point and walk the last 100KM to Santiago. Then fly (again, can be as cheap as euro 19 pp) to Madrid and from there fly home.

I think the Lascaux part will be too time consuming, looking at all the things you want to do in your time frame, plus it will be an expensive trip (lascaux part).
Perhaps with really tight planning, it can work, but....it then has to organised very well with hardly any margin for any impulsive ideas.

If Lascaux is a must, i still think driving it yourself is best. Maybe it then is even better and cheaper to drop the hired car off in France somewhere at a drop off point (biarritz airport i.e.) and then make your way to Saint Jean Pied de Port and do as mentioned above... Probably much cheaper then dropping a French car off in the middle of Spain.

Just ideas for you to work with.

 

[oursonpolaire]

I think that Dutch is right on pretty well everything. The projected travel plan will involve at least 16-20 hours of exhausting and ennervating highway driving. Note, as well, that fuel costs DOUBLE in France and Spain over the average US price. I would simply rely on train or plane to Leon from Paris, and hire your transport from there--- although I'm not sure what shrines you have in mind (Liebana? Lourdes? San Juan de la Pena? )

Drop Lascaux. Participants need to clarify what they want to accomplish with this trip. Either it is an educational trip/vacation, or it is a pilgrimage. I really don't think that trying to mix the two will work.

I have seen many many youth groups staying at albergues and, while I think that parents' concern is really quite overprotective here, I understand that you must operate within those parameters== casas rurales (B&B) might be a good idea for you, and many private albergues have private accommodation as well. Unless you have good Spanish-language telephoning and reserving skills, you might want to think of engaging someone to arrange what you need for accommodation-- unlike the hospitality industry in the Americas and in France, you will not find a lot of English-speakers in Spain.

While not knowing your group or the background, I would suggest that you look at using those extra days in walking, either from Astorga, or Ponferrada. While pilgrims of all religions (and none!) are very welcome in churches along the way and this would be a useful experience for these kids, churches are rarely made available to Anglican clergy for use. If you would like to PM me on these questions, feel free to do so.

 

[Hroswitha]

Thank you everyone who has been replying on this thread. Here are some thoughts I have about this now.

I am coming to agree that visiting the Lascaux Caves should be taken off the table. I'm even willing to forego Paris if it means we can get the costs of this trip under control. I have a travel agent in England contacting me to help plan a camino, and I'm considering his proposals.

What I would NOT want to do would be just fly in to Seville or Madrid, drive to the walking point, and walk the camino. Part of this trip is about travelling through the Pyrenees and visiting various sites along the way, as medieval pilgrims would have done. I would like to think that it's possible to fly to either France or Spain, then take a vehicle through the mountains and onto the plain of Spain before arriving at the point where we need to walk. Does that mean flying in to Paris and taking the RER south, then hiring a car? We can do that.

The albergues - I have talked with the church administrators and families about this possibility, and they believe that - as long as the teens are not alone in sleeping quarters and we are vigilant - we can do this. My one concern is that many of these lodgings don't take advance reservations. I would hate to have to race alone the camino road to each town in order to make sure we had enough beds for the whole group. The travel agent I spoke to said they don't book through the albergues for that reason, which means it's more expensive, but more dependable.

The group I'm taking tends, for the most part, to be from well-heeled families, but part of a pilgrimage as opposed to a vacation involves earning their passage, not just paying for it. These kids will be busting their butts to get the money together to do this, if they decide to do this trip. If I can trim down the costs to around $3000 per person (with airfare), we have a shot. Right now, I'm estimating about $4500 per person, which would mean about $30,000 in fund raising. Ugg.

Am I starting to sound more reasonable? I hope so - and all your advice is really helping me a great deal conceptualize this trip. Thank you all again.

 

[Kiwi-family]

I would ask you to consider changing your mind on one more thing - and you've already shown great willingness to do exactly this.
What is wrong with flying to Madrid, going to the place you intend to start walking and then walking? I suspect you are thinking the walking and visiting churches etc are mutually exclusive experiences - but the reality is that you will pass many a church every day and have the opportunity to stop at some of them (there will be more than you will want to stop at!)
Is there a reason for driving through the Pyrenees? You have so little time I am inclined to think that if there is no special reason, you might be better to spend your two weeks walking (starting perhaps in Ponferrada - or possibly Astorga if you are all fit) and visiting whatever churches you come across in that area - if anyone in the group discovers a love for long distance walking, the rest of the camino will always be there for them to come back to another time.
I walked with my hubby, eight kids and father-in-law in September 2012 - so we were a group of eleven. We did not have trouble finding anywhere to stay. We made sure we did not cover excessive distances each day and stopped by lunchtime to queue for a place at an albergue. This is not as bad as it seems - sitting down outside an albergue in the sun (or shade) with a baguette and round of camembert to share was a special time each day!

 

[Metropolly]

I wonder if there was some TV show or book released in the States lately that extolled the Pyrenees crossing? Because I've noticed a lot of posters from the US lately seem determined to include the climb up out of St Jean Pied de Port even if it means they then have to take the bus between later stages. It's a nice place, but it's no more or less an authentic, medieval part of the pilgrimage than Le Puy or Leon, or the boring trudge across what is now industrial wasteland or city outskirts. The pilgrimage is the journey, and the only essential place to visit is the one you're making your pilgrimage towards - Santiago. I say this, not to impose my ideas on you, but to free you from the notion that do do this properly you must tick off a whole host of must-sees

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I wonder if there was some TV show or book released in the States lately that extolled the Pyrenees crossing?

All the guides in German, English, Spanish, Korean, and French start in SJPdP. That may have some effect.

 

[Metropolly]

All the guides in German, English, Spanish, Korean, and French start in SJPdP. That may have some effect.

Yes but they don't flag up the Pyrenees crossing as more important than, say, the Meseta - or at least the ones I've read don't; I haven't read the Korean one yet