- Time of past OR future Camino
- First one in 2005 from Moissac, France.
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Why is that?the cardinal rule is that once you start CPR, you must never stop until you are relieved by more experienced medically trained personnel.
I think I didn't fully understand this until someone spelled it out to me. The ongoing CPR maintains the blood flow / oxygen to the brain. Stop the CPR, the blood flow ceases, the brain is starved of oxygen and death ensues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.The reason you never stop until relieved by medically trained personnel, is you never know it they would have lived. If you stop, you know they will not live and to some (family member) they may blame you for the death.
There will likely be an autopsy if they die. If you stop, your "stopping" or "inaction" could be a fact the person died. In some litigious places that could place you at great risk.
It is a good rule both from your own ability to sleep well at night and from a personal protection basis. Again, Good Samaritan rules generally assume you will perform as you were trained. All the training I have had said don't stop until relieved.
To simplify it and I’m no expert but CPR is pretty much keeping the blood flowing to vital organs and the blood pressure high enough so that when the person actually receives the proper medical care, they might revive and hopefully survive. Anyone that can explain this better than I , please doWhy is that?
We both posted this the same minute lolI think I didn't fully understand this until someone spelled it out to me. The ongoing CPR maintains the blood flow / oxygen to the brain. Stop the CPR, the blood flow ceases, the brain is starved of oxygen and death ensues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
the cardinal rule is that once you start CPR, you must never stop until you are relieved by more experienced medically trained personnel.
I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.To simplify it and I’m no expert but CPR is pretty much keeping the blood flowing to vital organs and the blood pressure high enough so that when the person actually receives the proper medical care, they might revive and hopefully survive.
If you stop before proper medical care arrives they pretty much will stay dead or have brain damage. I can’t imagine any liability if you just can’t go on because of exhaustion.I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.
Have had the same problem with a few barmaids over the years lolGreat post, David! Thanks for the important information.
I ran straight out to practice it but didn't go so well... evidently if you don't ask the waitress first you get told you're not allowed back in that restaurant...
I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.
I did read somewhere that people have resorted to putting a tattoo of "Not for CPR" across their chest....Ahrg I have decided to get a hat printed. You all are giving out too good of info. If you start recommending to the Alburgues to look into getting free defibulators from Phillips or Zoll I think you have crossed the line. A person has a hard time dying naturally... With folks thinking they have to help.
Point well taken. CPR very rarely revives anyone. It’s just a bridge.You might not start CPR if you come across a person who is clearly dead and has been dead for some time (i.e. they are cool / cold), as opposed to somebody whom you witness collapsing in front of you. If somebody has been dead long enough to be cold, you aren't going to revive them with CPR, no matter what!
I agree with the advice others have already given - its a good thing for absolutely everybody to do a basic first aide course. It saves you from wondering "what if".
I did read somewhere that people have resorted to putting a tattoo of "Not for CPR" across their chest....
@David - in addition to "Nellie the Elephant" and "Staying Alive", apparently Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" is also at the appropriate rate!
I reside now a place and my first witnessed troubled me for so many sleepless nights acting as good samaritan.I came from a country even destructing (traces for police investigation) is not very big issue (you will be asked as a witness but you will not felt interrogated as a suspect) when your trying to help someone....honestly because of that experienced i always prayed if possible not to experience the same... 'you can't do anymore harm' yes indeed but after i realized i was the one being harm with harsh process of interrogation ... though i really pray not to, but who am i to say never to do it again if facing the same...if you are trained and performing within your training you will be protected from litigation under Good Samaritan laws.
I have had the same, William G, did my best, he 'came back' twice but eventually left .. the ambulance went to the wrong place so I had to continue for over half an hour, knowing that by then he was dead and gone, including rescue breaths - it hurt me a lot emotionally, cried like a babe, still feel guilty that I couldn't save him - but the alternative, not helping at all? I would do it again in a heartbeat - I will not stand back or walk by, ever. ..
As for litigation - what relative would even think about litigating against someone who tried to help??? We have too much of this fear of litigation - it is all fear and this fear, these fears, they reduce our humanity .. and eventually we become the ones who walk past on the other side rather than the Samaritan who stops and helps - and which would we rather be?
Your post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for doing your best and prayers for your loss.Sometimes you try your damndest and its not enough
Jan of this year a fellow i had just talked to less than 5 min before had an MI
A"widowmaker"
I broke out the window of his pickup and laid him on the floor and started CPR along with an employee.
We worked on him for 15 min or so until ambulance arrived.
When i went to get the police report they told me he was DOA and that mist likely was passed before we worked on him.
I live with the guilt of having tried..and failed.
Be prepared to lose them
Harden yourself to that fact and fight as hard as you can to save them.
They dont tell you this in CPR class
This was the second time, the first was more successfull.
I didnt know him...would i do it again?
I ask that because some folks dint want the onus..or the responsibilities involved...
Would i do it again?
Absolutely.
Be blessed Pilgrim on the Way
Your post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for doing your best and prayers for your loss.
I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.I believe we only do CPR on people that are not breathing.
I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.
As often as I've found myself out in the middle of nowhere without water (or once in a blizzard, or once a kilometer from shore), I have learned that when I think I can't continue because of exhaustion, I actually can do a LOT more. If I ever have to do CPR, I won't know when I'm really exhausted util I wake up from fainting.If you stop before proper medical care arrives they pretty much will stay dead or have brain damage. I can’t imagine any liability if you just can’t go on because of exhaustion.
In Viana, I saw a sign asking people to buy something they were selling to raise funds to buy another AED for the village. Not long after I saw it, a person got dizzy and fell not far from that sign (not cardiac, vertigo) and two people arrived on foot with medical equipment within five minutes.My opinion is every business, hotel, alburgue, restaurant, bar etc should be required to have a defibrillator. Not only in Spain but every developed country.
Some folks have are under the impression it seems that we do CPR on folks that are not yet dead? I believe we only do CPR on people that are not breathing. Am I missing something?
You and another lifeguard find an unresponsive adult on the locker room floor. The other lifeguard goes to summon EMS personnel. You form an initial impression, complete a primary assessment and find that the victim has a pulse but is not breathing. Which of the following should you do next?
Give ventilations at a rate of about 1 every 5-6 seconds
.. so the first thing to do is to react, get in there - what is the worst you can do? They will die without you so respond, be afraid later ...
This may have already been addressed, so my apologies if I'm double-posting.I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.
Thank you David! This is a great reminder about taking care of others. I have given CPR on two occasions, neither were expected but just happened.Hi - I am putting this up as we have recently had pilgrims suffering heart attacks and you - yes, you!- could save their life ..
the first thing that will happen to you, and the people around you is almost nothing. People get scared, they don't know what to do, so they tend to do nothing - or even worse, try to get the person onto their feet ...
.. so the first thing to do is to react, get in there - what is the worst you can do? They will die without you so respond, be afraid later ...
First check your own safety - such things as live electricity and the casualty lying in a pool of water - check that it is safe for you.
Next get down to their face, shake them, call to them - see if they are responsive .. check to see if they are breathing, or breathing very badly - gasping is not breathing properly! put your cheek against their mouth, look for chest movement - take no longer than ten seconds.
If they have been eating check that this is a heart attack and not something stuck in their throat (they will go red and be trying to breathe - it really looks different from a heart attack) - you would have seen them go down or people nearby would have .. so check that .. if they are breathing check the airway is clear and put them in the recovery position (google how to do those things).
If not, then ....
Then, well, now is the time to try and save their life. The ideal is repetitive chest pressure (cpr) interleaved with 'rescue breaths' but if not trained in rescue breaths cpr alone is fine.
What you are doing here is making the heart pump so that the brain is oxygenated and when the rescue services arrive there is still a working brain, it isn't damaged - and, with luck, you may restore heart action and they will survive - but essentially it is keeping those systems going until help arrives - it is First Aid.
Do try and conquer your fear - it is better to try and do it wrong than not try at all - as you do the compressions get someone else to call the emergency services - if alone shout for help, then do them for thirty seconds, stop and phone, and then start again - the cpr is more important than the call if it is taking a while .. keep the line open, do some more cpr then talk then more cpr, etc - you must continue doing them until help comes.
I was trained years ago to do it to the song Nellie The Elephant beat running in my head - but now (appropriately enough) you can do it to Staying Alive!!
below is an instructional video - it is short, it is funny, and it is true - so please do watch it.
Afterwards, whether the casualty survives or not, expect to become emotional and even weepy, this is normal and it passes - whatever the result you have done a great thing.
And - St John Ambulance and the Red Cross first aid training courses take just one day and are cheap as chips. They will give you the training and confidence to step in and help where all others stand frozen - do take a course, get your whole family involved - do it .. please ...
Here the video - enjoy!!and Buen Camino - to us all.
The doctor who taught the course I attended said we have to continue cpr either till 1) the patient revives / medics take over or 2) the body gets the blue spots of death. Never quit sooner.Like someone once told me, "They're dead already." One has a chance - often a slim chance - to give them back their lives.
Speaking of smart phones. I would recommend one of several first aid Aps. The one on my phone includes information on CPR and a host of other important topics. Actually, Ivar might want to add that to the "Standard Packing" list information.
Yes, good point. I had never heard of anyone being allergic to aspirin. Ask first. And do not attempt to give aspirin except when the victim is conscious, breathing and his heart is still beating.I would be very careful of giving aspirin (yes, this is the drug of choice), to the poor soul on the floor, they may have an allergy to aspirin. You don't want an anaphylactic shock on your hands as well - you probably will kill them....!
American Red Cross First Aid App. The First Aid one is in many languages including English and Spanishgood point - which is the one you recommend?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?