Joseph Stanford
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2016
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First, as a new person to the Camino, let me say thank you to everyone on this forum for much useful information and insights. We are just returning from our first Camino experience. We walked one week on the Arogenes from Jaca and then one week on the Frances starting at Pamplona. (Didn't get to Santiago this year, will have to come back!) It was intesting to compare the routes and we enjoyed both. Obviously there were many more people on the Frances. Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. In general, I picked up trash that I saw between towns to put in the next garbage/rubbish receptacle in the next village, but I am not willing to pick up toilet paper! I get that there are not enough toilets on the way, and that sometimes you have to go when you are several km away from a town. But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
Perhaps we should be promoting the knowledgable tome How to Sh*t in the Woods, now in its third edition.
Seriously though, many people who on the Camino are new to all the vagaries of long distance walking. How best to inspire and educate them on best environmental practice is the issue.
Come on! This is suggesting that people "on the Forum" condone throwing garbage on the Camino. I can't resist objecting to this silly and insulting comment. I am quite certain that the community of people on this forum are much less likely to do so than the average. But maybe we are just overdue for a thread on toilet paper and one on "my camino."Unfortunately, on this Forum the catchphrase "Do your own Camino" is popular. I often hear that if you are irritated with something on the Camino you should just try to ignore it yourself and let others have their way... So I guess we should just let people throw the toilet paper on the Camino? Sorry, this is echoing a discussion on another thread. I just couldn't resist commenting it.
Come on! This is suggesting that people "on the Forum" condone throwing garbage on the Camino. I can't resist objecting to this silly and insulting comment. I am quite certain that the community of people on this forum are much less likely to do so than the average. But maybe we are just overdue for a thread on toilet paper and one on "my camino."
I occasionally pick up garbage on the beach near my home. I am no Camino angel for it. I am simply a good citizen.
Unfortunately, these signs already exist along the Camino, this in someone's backyard (middle right of image):Signs located in strategic locations to inform of wilderness ethics. Nobody likes signs ... but I'd rather have signs than signs of your passing.
I will step down from my tiny pedestal and try to get my blood pressure under control.Ease down.
/BP
Lastly, just to emphasize, I am not recommending yelling or being overly aggressive with others. Please don't do that, but find a way to help each pilgrim to be respectful of the Way.
I will step down from my tiny pedestal and try to get my blood pressure under control.
I was pointing out that our behaviour and attitudes on the Camino are likely to be similar to what we have at home. Attitudes toward littering vary around the world. Over 50% of pilgrims are Spaniards and I don't think it is a great idea to be scolding them on the Camino.
I guess we were overdue for a thread on littering and one on "my Camino." You and I have been mixing up the two themes and it hasn't worked out so well! I apologize.I'm not sure about what you mean. I am not scolding anyone. I have never said that the majority doesn't care about throwing litter, nor the majority on the Forum or the majority on the Camino.
I said that the phrase "Do your own camino" is popular, and that it's a problem. That's my opinion and you are invited to have a different opinion. Perhaps you don't think that this particular phrase is as common as I do, or you don't interpret it the same way as I do.
My opinion is that people (regardless of how many they are) who use that phrase imply that the litter isn't a problem as long as you change your own perception of it. I believe that litter is a problem, regardless of what you think of it and that a problem can't be solved just by not thinking of it. I don't know if people using this catchphrase are Spaniards or not, but anyone who doesn't agree with me is free to object.
/BP
Well, this is one of those things that just sticks in my craw. I have to say that I don't think that putting up signs will have much of an impact, but I could be wrong. I think that the people who use toilet paper and drop it on the ground know exactly what they are doing, know that it is ugly and disgusting, but are too thoughtless and self-indulged to care about it. And without wanting to bring up all that recent tumult about whether the "it's your camino" mantra is an underlying attitude that leads (though surely unintentionally) to practices like this, I'll just leave it with the thought that this type of irresponsible behavior is surely something we can all agree to be judgmental about!
Yes, of course we were! I rarely shy away from one. But I try to recognize when it is going too far.Oh don't apologize, we were having an argument! :O)
I noticed!I am the BAD pilgrim...!
Join the merry club, Joseph. I've done some cleaning on my last walk on the English Way. I still cannot see why some people throw PLASTIC on this sacred walk. Buen Camino,First, as a new person to the Camino, let me say thank you to everyone on this forum for much useful information and insights. We are just returning from our first Camino experience. We walked one week on the Arogenes from Jaca and then one week on the Frances starting at Pamplona. (Didn't get to Santiago this year, will have to come back!) It was intesting to compare the routes and we enjoyed both. Obviously there were many more people on the Frances. Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. In general, I picked up trash that I saw between towns to put in the next garbage/rubbish receptacle in the next village, but I am not willing to pick up toilet paper! I get that there are not enough toilets on the way, and that sometimes you have to go when you are several km away from a town. But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
@NancSo with all these comments, why dont more pack lists include a trowel? I think it is Gossamer Geat that had an ultralight one.
So people that are told on the forum there is a bar ( buy something!) within easy "reach" for toiletry anytime: are we being mislead?
Moctezuma's revenge hits unexpectedly?
If this is a likely probability, why arent pack lists encouraged to add them like we do foot care products?
Nanc
So with all these comments, why dont more pack lists include a trowel? I think it is Gossamer Geat that had an ultralight one.
So people that are told on the forum there is a bar ( buy something!) within easy "reach" for toiletry anytime: are we being mislead?
Moctezuma's revenge hits unexpectedly?
If this is a likely probability, why arent pack lists encouraged to add them like we do foot care products?
Nanc
So with all these comments, why dont more pack lists include a trowel? I think it is Gossamer Geat that had an ultralight one.
So people that are told on the forum there is a bar ( buy something!) within easy "reach" for toiletry anytime: are we being mislead?
Moctezuma's revenge hits unexpectedly?
If this is a likely probability, why arent pack lists encouraged to add them like we do foot care products?
Nanc
So true!I think that the people who use toilet paper and drop it on the ground know exactly what they are doing, know that it is ugly and disgusting, but are too thoughtless and self-indulged to care about it.
So true!
If you must do your business, please haul your toilet paper out. Have a resealable plastic bag handy and please use it.
Most useful if they are exactly where the bathroom emergency occurs.Or start a campaign to build a few public toilets?
a grown man/woman is capable of holding onto the contents of their bowel for some hours and needn't have to empty them in a public place.
... Or start a campaign to build a few public toilets?
Most useful if they are exactly where the bathroom emergency occurs.
Quote:
... Or start a campaign to build a few public toilets?
There are so many cafes/bars/albergues at regular intervals on the camino francés, I don't see the need for public toilets. Who's going to pay for them and to keep them clean? Are you offering?
Go past the first row of trees in any forest!I can't remember seeing any poop along the trail, so I don't think it is prevalent.
Pipe dream, @falcon269.I have suggested several times that the xuntas invest in catering truck/vans with chemical toilets. Each morning they would position themselves in appropriate places, charge a half Euro to use the toilet.......
Agree. I notice that you find on the uphill more toilet paper from pelgrims with running noses. Ha ha.First, as a new person to the Camino, let me say thank you to everyone on this forum for much useful information and insights. We are just returning from our first Camino experience. We walked one week on the Arogenes from Jaca and then one week on the Frances starting at Pamplona. (Didn't get to Santiago this year, will have to come back!) It was intesting to compare the routes and we enjoyed both. Obviously there were many more people on the Frances. Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. In general, I picked up trash that I saw between towns to put in the next garbage/rubbish receptacle in the next village, but I am not willing to pick up toilet paper! I get that there are not enough toilets on the way, and that sometimes you have to go when you are several km away from a town. But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
That and the litter are disgusting and have often been commented on. Walking in the dark with a headlamp the white toilet paper does help mark the sides of the trail though.First, as a new person to the Camino, let me say thank you to everyone on this forum for much useful information and insights. We are just returning from our first Camino experience. We walked one week on the Arogenes from Jaca and then one week on the Frances starting at Pamplona. (Didn't get to Santiago this year, will have to come back!) It was intesting to compare the routes and we enjoyed both. Obviously there were many more people on the Frances. Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. In general, I picked up trash that I saw between towns to put in the next garbage/rubbish receptacle in the next village, but I am not willing to pick up toilet paper! I get that there are not enough toilets on the way, and that sometimes you have to go when you are several km away from a town. But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
That and the litter are disgusting and have often been commented on. Walking in the dark with a headlamp the white toilet paper does help mark the sides of the trail though.
So many posts about toilet paper. Walking the Camino your way is just fine. But leaving garbage and dirty toilet paper is being a basic pig with bad upbringing. People do the same thing on international flights. Stewards come around many times to collect garbage and still the pigs throw it all over the floor. What a shame. There will always be someone to ruin things for everyone else.First, as a new person to the Camino, let me say thank you to everyone on this forum for much useful information and insights. We are just returning from our first Camino experience. We walked one week on the Arogenes from Jaca and then one week on the Frances starting at Pamplona. (Didn't get to Santiago this year, will have to come back!) It was intesting to compare the routes and we enjoyed both. Obviously there were many more people on the Frances. Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. In general, I picked up trash that I saw between towns to put in the next garbage/rubbish receptacle in the next village, but I am not willing to pick up toilet paper! I get that there are not enough toilets on the way, and that sometimes you have to go when you are several km away from a town. But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
@TincatinkerLitterers don't ruin my Camino. They provide my opportunities for service and I am grateful to them. If they did not discard their unwanted items I would not need my balsa descarga; and my smug righteousness levels would be in danger of plummeting below 'merely content'. But shit, sorry poo, or for the easily offended (what the hell are you doing on the Camino?) excrement - even the sacred sister/brotherhood of Ditch Pigs balk at that. There is only so much we can do to clean the caminos and shovelling shite is not in our remit. I am aware that no member of this blessed Forum has ever been caught short and even if they were they would bag out the necessary until at least airport security but the fact remains that at least 90% of pilgrims require at least a ream of paper to blot their pee-pee bits with and then, with the extra moisture content adding to the weight, they are sadly incapable of carrying their trail-roses to a bin.
There have been so many threads on this topic over the years that 'toilet paper' even appears in the 'most popular tags cloud' (most popular, sheesh).
The only real solution is peer pressure - do what I did last week. While walking Little Dog I saw a dog-walker walking away from what his dog had done. So I offered him a doggy-bag to use. The swelling around my eye is going down...
...Another difference- and perhaps the only real negative of the whole time- was that many stretches of the Frances we walked had frequent toilet paper sightings, to the side of the trail or sometimes on it. .... But why not either 1) carry a trowel and bury the toilet paper several inches deep, or 2) carry plastic baggies to put your toilet paper in and carry it out to discard at the next rubbish receptacle? Carrying out toilet paper is required for backpacking in many USA national parks, for example. Perhaps it should/could become expected on the Camino?
I haven't walked the Camino yet, heading off in a little over 6 weeks! I've read many a thread about toilet paper litter and it really saddens me.I'd say signs are the only way to get the point across. That leaving toilet paper is an impact on people's experience. That leaving toilet paper encourages others to do the same. etc.
I haven't walked the Camino yet, heading off in a little over 6 weeks! I've read many a thread about toilet paper litter and it really saddens me.
Signs may help, but I wouldn't want to see the Way 'littered' with too many signs either.
I have attached a 'Leave no trace' patch on my pack and am seriously considering carrying a small trowel and will definitely be carrying some plastic bags to carry out the paper. Like @MichaelB10398, I'm not one for berating others when they're not doing the right thing, but maybe I can offer a plastic bag, the use of my trowel and point to my patch.
Leaflets could be made up re toileting practices and generally promoting the keeping of the Camino beautiful and given out by the pilgrims office in St Jean and at other strategic locations - starting places.
@KerrieGI haven't walked the Camino yet, heading off in a little over 6 weeks! I've read many a thread about toilet paper litter and it really saddens me.
Signs may help, but I wouldn't want to see the Way 'littered' with too many signs either.
I have attached a 'Leave no trace' patch on my pack and am seriously considering carrying a small trowel and will definitely be carrying some plastic bags to carry out the paper. Like @MichaelB10398, I'm not one for berating others when they're not doing the right thing, but maybe I can offer a plastic bag, the use of my trowel and point to my patch.
Leaflets could be made up re toileting practices and generally promoting the keeping of the Camino beautiful and given out by the pilgrims office in St Jean and at other strategic locations - starting places.
On my last two Caminos I took 6 extra zip-lock plastic bags with a nice new small (children's size) cotton handkerchief in each. At the first albergue I give these away to other female pilgrims. My message was that the cotton handkerchief is to pat oneself dry after any wee along the camino, and the ziplock bag for storage. They can be rinsed in the evening, dry overnight, and are ready for re-use.
I've had really nice reactions. If we all did the same thing we could make a difference.
And cotton handkerchiefs are much better if anyone has a cold too! A constantly dripping nose goes through tissues like nobody's business, and then the tissues get strewn around the path. Whereas a cotton handkerchief far outlasts a tissue, is strong enough to be pulled in and out of a pocket, and can be reused and reused.
I only thought of packing out the #1 as I read some complaints last year about certain areas of the camino reeking of urine...Packing out a bit of TP is easy - I don't know why more people don't just put it in a plastic bag and take it with them. I don't think that peeing is a problem, as long as you step off the trail a bit, so no need to pee into a bottle and take it with you if you don't want to, just don't drop the TP.
#Love the idea of "Leave No Trace" patch!I haven't walked the Camino yet, heading off in a little over 6 weeks! I've read many a thread about toilet paper litter and it really saddens me.
Signs may help, but I wouldn't want to see the Way 'littered' with too many signs either.
I have attached a 'Leave no trace' patch on my pack and am seriously considering carrying a small trowel and will definitely be carrying some plastic bags to carry out the paper. Like @MichaelB10398, I'm not one for berating others when they're not doing the right thing, but maybe I can offer a plastic bag, the use of my trowel and point to my patch.
Leaflets could be made up re toileting practices and generally promoting the keeping of the Camino beautiful and given out by the pilgrims office in St Jean and at other strategic locations - starting places.
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