James van Hemert
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino de Frances April 2022
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
When will hospitaleros/as and inn keepers be vaccinated?
It would be prudent and safest for all if everyone in an albergue were vaccinated before we share neals and dormitories.
Well, that might be a really good question for the Camino authorities, except there aren’t any. There is no-one in charge of the Camino, there is no-one who would organize such a scheme and probably no-one who could even if they would. Albergues will reopen when Spanish authorities permit them to and subject to whatever criteria said authorities choose to apply. As a given, no citizen of the EU or EC can be compelled to accept vaccination. Even those sat with their sleeves rolled up and eager will have to wait their turn. I think it likely that Albergue staff are fairly far down the list of priority vaccination targets.When will hospitaleros/as and inn keepers be vaccinated? I do not find reports they are considered for early vaccinations ahead of their age cohorts. It would be prudent and safest for all if everyone in an albergue were vaccinated before we share neals and dormitories.
When it is their turn in terms of age. My question to you is why they should be pricked earlier than, for example, people who work in shops and the like?When will hospitaleros/as and inn keepers be vaccinated? I do not find reports they are considered for early vaccinations ahead of their age cohorts. It would be prudent and safest for all if everyone in an albergue were vaccinated before we share neals and dormitories.
I am merely seeking information. Every jurisdiction makes its own determination on vaccination order of priority. Here in British Columbia for example all health care workers, teachers, First Nation people, and isolated communities are being vaccinated ahead of the age cohort order.When it is their turn in terms of age. My question to you is why they should be pricked earlier than, for example, people who work in shops and the like?
I am merely seeking information.
Indeed ...When it is their turn in terms of age. My question to you is why they should be pricked earlier than, for example, people who work in shops and the like?
It sounds like a great idea at first. There is indeed no indication that hospitaleros of pilgrim albergues are considered a priority group, and given that they are a very small group, in comparison to other categories, I don't see that they will ever be considered separately.When will hospitaleros/as and inn keepers be vaccinated? I do not find reports they are considered for early vaccinations ahead of their age cohorts. It would be prudent and safest for all if everyone in an albergue were vaccinated before we share neals and dormitories.
I hear what you say and I agree to a certain degree. But if there are no restrictions and the Spanish government says tourist are welcome again (vaccinated or with a negative covid test taken 72 hours before arrival) I would go in a heartbeat.I think that for the question to be useful, everyone needs to remember that at this point vaccines are thought to be as effective as advertised only for about 3 months. After that? We do not know because we are, effectively, in the phase 3 mass trial now. Usually Phase 3 is completed with very large "representative populations" prior to release to the general public, but we rushed to mass vaccination because of the desperateness of the situation.
But if, like me, you are being vaccinated now (I'm in a priority group), it would be an error to think that, for example, you are "good to go" for volunteering to be in close quarters with dozens and dozens of different people on successive days for 2-4 weeks after Spain re-opens to outside EU visitors at the end of August or early September.
We will know far far better by the end of 2021 whether the vaccines are stable for protection over time, and useful against variants.
The two significant risks right now are 1) that rolling vaccination priority groups place phase 1 recipients in expired protection status before we finish the final rounds of delivery, and 2) that the current vaccines cannot quell the pandemic because the roll-out is too slow (allowing people to start running around as though they are "good to go" when the data show that they are not, and allowing mutations time to take hold).
Really people... love the camino from afar. Send your money to the businesses individually, to the charities distributing funds to albergues, and buy their remote offerings (maps, books, Ivar's store...), but if we really love the people of Spain and not just our privilege to stomp all over their country, then I think we should leave Camino to the Schengen approved "locals" for 2021.
I think?? you meant to say "should not think they are good to go"? ... and to me that's an ethical question I prefer to solve by not putting my desires first and instead spending money to support the charities and shops and individual albergues from a distance. I have purchased items this year from Ivar, and from Wise Pilgrim, sent money to the CCOP to distribute to albergues, and sent money to individual albergues I enjoyed in particular. Every month I spend about 10% of what I would spend on the ground on a camino so that by the end of this year I had spent about 20% more on camino services and goods than I would on a regular camino trip.I hear what you say and I agree to a certain degree. I do however believe that if there are no restrictions and the Spanish government says tourist are welcome again (vaccinated or with a negative covid test taken 72 hours before arrival) I would go in a heartbeat.
I don’t see why someone should feel they are good to go under those circumstances.
Wow, you are a saint. Maybe by the time I get to Santiago de Campostela I will be as enlightened as you.I think?? you meant to say "should not think they are good to go"? ... and to me that's an ethical question I prefer to solve by not putting my desires first and instead spending money to support the charities and shops and individual albergues from a distance. I have purchased items this year from Ivar, and from Wise Pilgrim, sent money to the CCOP to distribute to albergues, and sent money to individual albergues I enjoyed in particular. Every month I spend about 10% of what I would spend on the ground on a camino so that by the end of this year I had spent about 20% more on camino services and goods than I would on a regular camino trip.
Why would I go for my own sake when I can meet the tourist needs of the camino areas from a distance?
Because governments can be motivated by economic needs to allow things they would not otherwise, I will not exploit that when I have other options. Every single one of us contemplating travel has other options. "Oh, but I am sick now and maybe I won't live long enough for this bucket list item," is not IMHO, a valid reason to risk the health and safety of others.
I am certainly hopeful that my jab today will be Pfizer, and I'm hopeful that by September the data on lasting immunity will be better, but we don't have that yet.
Living in a region that depends quite heavily on US tourism to our cottage region, I would rather not receive the money if it means having to be inundated with entitled tourists. I have the same perspective on Canadian snowbirds who are happy to go stomping on economically needful areas in the US. "They need my money" is an unethical reason to grant the hall-pass.
I work on community-based health issues and we are not allowed to exploit economic need to acquire access to vulnerable populations. It's just an ethical non-starter. I'm applying the same principle to my desire for a return to Spain.
Some countries are desperate to open up, at almost all cost. An even better example is Hellas (Greece). Those countries (and others in the Meditteranian area) are completely depending on tourism income. I won't go anywhere until I am fully vaccined, for the sake of both myself as well as the country I am visiting.All jokes aside.. If the Spanish government says tourists are welcome, if there are no restrictions crossing regional borders, if the hostels are opened again, the restaurants and bars as well you still think one should wait and not go because of ethical reasons?
Hear hear! Vaccinated or negative Covid-test 72 hours before arrival. Can’t see what would be unethical or selfish about that.Some countries are desperate to open up, at almost all cost. An even better example is Hellas (Greece). Those countries (and others in the Meditteranian area) are completely depending on tourism income. I won't go anywhere until I am fully vaccined, for the sake of both myself as well as the country I am visiting.
Wow, you are a saint. Maybe by the time I get to Santiago de Campostela I will be as enlightened as you.
All jokes aside.. If the Spanish government says tourists are welcome, if there are no restrictions crossing regional borders, if the hostels are opened again, the restaurants and bars as well you still think one should wait and not go because of ethical reasons? One should just stay at home and donate money? Until when?
Vaccinated in January , travelling in September... strong chance the vaccine is no longer effective. Wait for the long-term information before hitting the ground. By definition we do not have the long-term data yet. Negative Covid tests notoriously unable to catch all infections and we can accept that in some domestic situations (medicinal settings, schools, congregated housing) in order to keep some kind of function.Hear hear! Vaccinated or negative Covid-test 72 hours before arrival. Can’t see what would be unethical or selfish about that.
I don’t think it is fair to compare walking the camino with being packed like sardines in Mallorca or Madrid, but I get your point.There's a grey area between "I can go" and "I'm welcome" or "It's a good idea to go". Witness this Easter weekend and the German tourists on Mallorca and the mostly young French tourists in Madrid. They could fly to Spain, no problem, and fly back home again, no problem, but they weren't particularly welcome by everyone and many in their home country didn't think that it was a brilliant idea to travel there right now and travel back right now.
I am booked and ready to go in the fall of 2021. If there is concern with hostels, perhaps staying in hotels might be a safer idea. Both Portugal and Spain have a "Clean&Safe" seal of approval on many of their hotels which means they are going beyond to keep a safe environment for their patrons. I would be very concerned about staying in a bunk room situation this year especially.I am merely seeking information. Every jurisdiction makes its own determination on vaccination order of priority. Here in British Columbia for example all health care workers, teachers, First Nation people, and isolated communities are being vaccinated ahead of the age cohort order.
For sure. Go easy on the gourd.Wait for the long-trees information before hitting the gourd.
FWIW, the newest estimate (don't know how reliable the source is but I personally regard it as fairly reliable) says that Spain is now projected to have 57 % of the population vaccinated by the end of June 2021.
I couldn't agree more and I appreciate you posting this. I actually checked to see whether I misquoted. I didn't but that's beside the point.Not posting this for wanting to be smart (and maybe off-topic) but I think it shows how that any projected vaccination schedules may be fluid (and possibly will remain to be so in the coming months), which may be good to realize for anyone making plans.
You hit the nail on the head with those last lines.I couldn't agree more and I appreciate you posting this. I actually checked to see whether I misquoted. I didn't but that's beside the point.
There is a clear tendency to rush to Spain and walk as soon as it is legally possible, most likely in May. It can't be stopped. Just as last year some could not be stopped from travelling to Spain to walk or continuing to walk in February/March when it was already clear to many that this was not a brilliant idea and before finally a massive stop was put to it around the middle of March 2020 by the measures that governments and public health authorities took to restrict everybody's mobility because people did not listen to appeals to voluntary restrictions, in particularly voluntary restrictions on travelling and on interacting with many other people from many different areas.
Oh come on, those of us who don't want to interact have the whole wide world to go on pilgrimage. But no, it has to be a camino to Santiago. Sorry but ... anyway, this thread is about the hospitaleros and not about the walkers. And it's about the hospitaleros from Spain and, I guess, about the volunteers from all over Europe and the world who want to travel to Spain and spend two weeks in an albergue.But for us who really don’t want to interact...
Are you disqualifying me? Am I not welcome on the camino if I don’t want to be part of a ”camino family” and if I choose to spend the evenings alone?Oh come on, those of us who don't want to interact have the whole wide world to go on pilgrimage. But no, it has to be a camino to Santiago. Sorry but ... anyway, this thread is about the hospitaleros and not about the walkers. And it's about the hospitaleros from Spain and, I guess, about the volunteers from all over Europe and the world who want to travel to Spain and spend two weeks in an albergue.
ha ha my typo tendency currently exacerbated by 2-finger typing due to injured fingers from a fall. Autocorrect tries to help, and I look like I have been hitting the gourd.For sure. Go easy on the gourd.
No. I am saying in general, and not to you specifically: Travel if you legally can and feel the urge. Justify it to yourself if you need to justify it to yourself. Don't expect others to agree vocally. And that applies to those who want to lie on the beach as well as to those who want to walk 500 miles.Are you disqualifying me? Am I not welcome on the camino if I don’t want to be part of a ”camino family” and if I choose to spend the evenings alone?
This is starting to sound very judgemental. I am sure most of us are mature adults that can make a decision as to what is safest for ourselves and others. If you don't feel it is right to go, don't go but don't make judgements on other people. The Camino is free to all of us.No. I am saying in general, and not to you specifically: Travel if you legally can and feel the urge. Justify it to yourself if you need to justify it to yourself. Don't expect others to agree vocally. And that applies to those who want to lie on the beach as well as to those who want to walk 500 miles.
You may find it judgemental but it is a logical fallacy, a non-sequtor, to assert that being able to judge for oneself is therefore an ability (and right)to decide for others. Philosophically speaking, when we decide for ourselves, we do decide for others, but as we have been advised over and over and over that vaccines do not necessarily prevent spreading infection, I do not think we have the right to decide for others that they should die for us. There are other ways, if we really care about their economic well-being to deliver that.This is starting to sound very judgemental. I am sure most of us are mature adults that can make a decision as to what is safest for ourselves and others. If you don't feel it is right to go, don't go but don't make judgements on other people. The Camino is free to all of us.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?