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Thank-you for letting us know!Hello all!
Went pass Barxa de Lor yesterday and no dogs off chains and the dogs that existed after the bridge and on the ascend were all inside a big house and they were friendly. Maybe this dog doesn’t live there anymore ? Anyhow just wanted to keep you updated.
I saw the exact place you pointed in the video and still no dogs when I walked there early this month.I first saw this post today, so maybe a little late. I went by these dogs in 2018. One at eachs side of the path. I had to walk in the middle of the path so they could not reach me. Very scaring.
The location is right here:
View attachment 102188View attachment 102188
If you want to see the place, there is a youtube video right here, go to time 6:54
So much for our effort to get some action! i have written again to Aida Menéndez and will report back.Well.i went by this place about 6 days ago. And I can tell you the dogs are still there, and very much alive, and very scarying.
Just curious, have the dogs ever bitten anyone or harmed anyone? Or, is it that they ferociously jump out…but are tethered?So much for our effort to get some action! i have written again to Aida Menéndez and will report back.
I don't know whether they have ever bitten anyone, but they leap to the end of their chains until they are restrained by the chains and their throats are caught by their collars, barking ferociously. As far as I am concerned, it is not a question of biting anyone. I was certain that if the fiercer of those dogs managed to escape his chain, I was dead. It is not always practical to wait for an attack before removing the dog. There is no other way that pilgrims can pass, except by those dogs.Just curious, have the dogs ever bitten anyone or harmed anyone? Or, is it that they ferociously jump out…but are tethered?
I get it! But are the dogs actually on publicproperty?I don't know whether they have ever bitten anyone, but they leap to the end of their chains until they are restrained by the chains and their throats are caught by their collars, barking ferociously. As far as I am concerned, it is not a question of biting anyone. I was certain that if the fiercer of those dogs managed to escape his chain, I was dead. It is not always practical to wait for an attack before removing the dog. There is no other way that pilgrims can pass, except by those dogs.
In Spain? Go on, define public property. A right of passage is not a public right of way. All reports suggest that these “yard dogs” are restrained, chained, as is common practice. Their purpose is to dissuade from any encroachment on “their” territory. Of course it’s a shame if a dog doing it’s job perturbs the odd pilgrim or two but one can always pass by on the other side.I get it! But are the dogs actually on publicproperty?
I actually do not disagree with you. If the dog is secured properly, Its barking and look should not be a grounds for removing them unless they are on public property.In Spain? Go on, define public property. A right of passage is not a public right of way. All reports suggest that these “yard dogs” are restrained, chained, as is common practice. Their purpose is to dissuade from any encroachment on “their” territory. Of course it’s a shame if a dog doing it’s job perturbs the odd pilgrim or two but one can always pass by on the other side.
If I seem callous that is not my intent but if we choose to walk we also choose to accept the environment in which we walk. Or, do we wish to walk a 100m wide strip of sanctified ground free from all hazards and challenges? If so, walk from Sarria: the Turismo Galicia has got it sorted for you
Sounds like a dangerous scenario for both the pilgrims and the dogs should a pilgrim get injured. And, IMO, securing a dog with only a three foot chain is cruel!It’s hard to know where the private property begins and public right of way begins. But this walkway is the only way to get down to the bridge so the public clearly has the right to walk here. It takes you through what feels like a little corridor on a sidewalk. There is no grass or other vegetation, just a concrete path with the barn on one side.
@Tincatinker, I agree with what you say but these dogs are truly vicious. Their chain is about 3 feet long, attached to the outside of one if the buildings. And they are lunging with all their strength. There is enough space for people to walk against the other side of the path, barely, but the dogs come very very close. If one of them ever broke off those chains there would be terrible consequences. Perturbing the odd pilgrim is the least of my worries.
Yes. There was only one when we passed through but it was in the middle of the road, which is as far as its chain would reach. I have seen a lot of dogs in Spain, none like this. It seemed to be a fighting dog by its build and behaviour and trained to kill and I am pretty sure it would have if it hadn't been restrained. It is a tragedy waiting to happen, not just to a pilgrim but to a small child or older person taken by surprise.I get it! But are the dogs actually on publicproperty?
You haven't met this dog (there was only one when we passed through), I have. Firstly, it was on public property, i.e. the middle of the road, which was as far as its chain reached. At first it wasn't barking, it was snarling, growling with its mouth and eyes wide open and lunging (pouncing might be a better description) with its full strength at me - clear signs a dog is attacking. It was a large, powerful, vicious dog of a fighting type and if it hadn't been chained, it would have killed me, I am sure of that. It is a tragedy waiting to happen - a small child or older person (not just a pilgrim) could be taken by surprise and they wouldn't stand a chance.I actually do not disagree with you. If the dog is secured properly, Its barking and look should not be a grounds for removing them unless they are on public property.
As I mentioned before, the people in the hostal in Barxa knew about the dog/s and I seem to remember they said they had complained, but it is worth, as you say, going up the chain of command, or even the local police, who would probably be the ones to take action if the inevitable happens. Can I just reiterate to everyone, these are not 'nuisance' dogs: I have seen sheep dogs, hunting dogs, guard dogs and pets all over Spain. These ones are a public danger.My response from Aida Menéndez seemed resigned to the likelihood that nothing is going to happen. But I have filled out a contact form to the town hall, and let’s see if I get any response. Anyone else who is inspired, have a go.
Contacto - Ayuntamiento de Quiroga
Utiliza el formulario para ponerte en contacto con el Ayuntamiento de Quiroga.concellodequiroga.com
I also wonder if it’s worth thinking about going up the food chain a bit. Maybe there is someone in the Xunta‘s Xacobeo who would take an interest. I will do some googling, but if anyone has an idea, let me know. As @Theatregal says, it is really terrifying, in addition to being abusive to those deranged animals.
Edited to add a few more addresses to contact. I’ve written one letter and am sending it to any email or online contact form I can find. Feel free to add your voice as well.
asociacion@caminodeinvierno.com
The dog I saw was in the middle of a paved, public road, not on private property as every other vicious dog I saw in Spain was. This is the point we are trying to make, it was not in a field or a farmyard, it was on the road.@peregrina2000, I had to have another look on godgle earth to remind myself of that conjunction. I have no recollection of dogs there, as others have commented, but can appreciate that a demented yard-dog in that confined area would not be any fun at all.
Let us hope that local pressure can bring about resolution.
My general comment about rights of passage, as opposed to rights of way as understood at least in the UK, is that in Spain, beyond the Caminos Real, there is no right of way. Passage is at the tolerance of the land-owner. And some of them: like the guy with the "impassible" gate on the Salvador, or the barbed wire tangle on the GR7 just outside Jimena de la Frontera don't give a monkey's.
The roadway is public property, in Spain and the UK. Not in Spain nor any other developed country do I expect my life and safety to be endangered unnecessarily. Nobody else in Spain allows dangerous animals onto public property, why should this owner?In Spain? Go on, define public property. A right of passage is not a public right of way. All reports suggest that these “yard dogs” are restrained, chained, as is common practice. Their purpose is to dissuade from any encroachment on “their” territory. Of course it’s a shame if a dog doing it’s job perturbs the odd pilgrim or two but one can always pass by on the other side.
If I seem callous that is not my intent but if we choose to walk we also choose to accept the environment in which we walk. Or, do we wish to walk a 100m wide strip of sanctified ground free from all hazards and challenges? If so, walk from Sarria: the Turismo Galicia has got it sorted for you
Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I guess forewarned is forearmed, I was neither. You'll be OK if you just keep a good look out.I'm looking forward to walking the Invierno in October, but this thread is really scaring the life out of me!
No need to worry, Nuala. Forewarned is forearmed. It is only one place, and not everyone encounters them. I didn't. I actually wish I had so I could add my letters to the rest. But I had a totally uneventful passage.I'm looking forward to walking the Invierno in October, but this thread is really scaring the life out of me!
Yes. The universal reports are that they are coming out halfway into the road. Surely that counts as public space?But are the dogs actually on publicproperty?
There isn't much of another side in this place, which is the problem.one can always pass by on the other side.
Laurie I think this is a very good idea. Potential bad publicity can work wonders, especially with a xunta wanting to develop a camino. Does anyone have Brierley's new guide? I wonder if he mentions these dogs? If so, showing them that might get some action.I also wonder if it’s worth thinking about going up the food chain a bit.
Very well said. Thank you for clarity. I have walked this route 6 time WITH OUT having this dog problem.In Spain? Go on, define public property. A right of passage is not a public right of way. All reports suggest that these “yard dogs” are restrained, chained, as is common practice. Their purpose is to dissuade from any encroachment on “their” territory. Of course it’s a shame if a dog doing it’s job perturbs the odd pilgrim or two but one can always pass by on the other side.
If I seem callous that is not my intent but if we choose to walk we also choose to accept the environment in which we walk. Or, do we wish to walk a 100m wide strip of sanctified ground free from all hazards and challenges? If so, walk from Sarria: the Turismo Galicia has got it sorted for you
They are not 'yard dogs'. A yard dog is confined within its yard, that is the essential purpose of a yard dog - to protect the yard and that is what the yard dogs I have seen in Spain do, protect the yard. Chaining a ferocious dog out the front of the property is rather pointless if a would be intruder can climb over the back fence. I have encountered a lot of dogs in Spain (including the notorious Salvador sheep dogs) and believe me, perturbed doesn't even come close. I also don't think frightening people is what these particular dogs were trained or bred for.In Spain? Go on, define public property. A right of passage is not a public right of way. All reports suggest that these “yard dogs” are restrained, chained, as is common practice. Their purpose is to dissuade from any encroachment on “their” territory. Of course it’s a shame if a dog doing it’s job perturbs the odd pilgrim or two but one can always pass by on the other side.
If I seem callous that is not my intent but if we choose to walk we also choose to accept the environment in which we walk. Or, do we wish to walk a 100m wide strip of sanctified ground free from all hazards and challenges? If so, walk from Sarria: the Turismo Galicia has got it sorted for you
Just had a look at Brierley's new guide and twice in that area he has in brackets.( Loud dogs)No need to worry, Nuala. Forewarned is forearmed. It is only one place, and not everyone encounters them. I didn't. I actually wish I had so I could add my letters to the rest. But I had a totally uneventful passage.
Yes. The universal reports are that they are coming out halfway into the road. Surely that counts as public space?
There isn't much of another side in this place, which is the problem.
Laurie I think this is a very good idea. Potential bad publicity can work wonders, especially with a xunta wanting to develop a camino. Does anyone have Brierley's new guide? I wonder if he mentions these dogs? If so, showing them that might get some action.
That is true, but they are certainly an occasion for "memento mori." I was quite certain that I was dead if the fiercer of those two dogs broke its chain or collar while lunging at me. On the other hand, I saw no reason for that to happen in the few moments that I was passing by, and of course it did not.Thanks to @dick bird for your posts. I have walked the Invierno three times, and the dogs were only out on my last time. Those of you who did not encounter them were lucky.
As long as the chain holds, there is space to pass without getting attacked.
Unfortunately, the dog was not there when I went past, so I have nothing to report.Please, please, please, if you have a report to make, be it in English or in Spanish, write to the email adadress above. We can’t lose momentum!
You have identified the only way in which not passing those dogs could ever be described as “unfortunate”.Unfortunately, the dog was not there when I went past,
Yes, that thought definitely crossed my mind.You have identified the only way in which not passing those dogs could ever be described as “unfortunate”.
Done.Update — The elected official in Quiroga whose duties include “all things camino” has responded to the Secretary of the municipal association and has promised to send out some local police to investigate the situation.
Please, please, please, if you have a report to make, be it in English or in Spanish, write to the email adadress above. We can’t lose momentum! I had a similar encouraging response from another individual last year, but it ultimately went nowhere.
Perhaps. Bad dogs are never born that way. When these dogs die, there may be others taking their place who have also been trained to be aggressive monsters. Best get this guy on animal welfare radar screens before some innocent pilgrim gets badly hurt - and for the sake of the obviously unhappy dogs.This too shall pass!
First time for everything. Generally speaking, dogs in Spain are allowed to roam if the owner knows they aren't aggressive, and that goes for countries all around the world. A lot of the dogs I saw in Spain were unwilling, and possibly unable, to do more than sit in the middle of the road and stare at me with a distinct lack of interest. Sometimes aggressive guard dogs break out, it happens, but not by intention. Apart from anything else, Spanish people are no more willing to annoy their neighbours than anyone else is. I haven't been bitten by a dog in Spain either. But if that dog hadn't been held back by that chain, I'd have been seriously mauled. I have attached a picture of a more typical Spanish dog, with friend.When I lived in rural Galicia many years ago, most dogs where happy. Most were always loose and some of them (males) sometimes walked 1km and more around the house when didn't have to work.
I never was bitten.
Perhaps. Bad dogs are never born that way. When these dogs die, there may be others taking their place who have also been trained to be aggressive monsters. Best get this guy on animal welfare radar screens before some innocent pilgrim gets badly hurt - and for the sake of the obviously unhappy dogs.
I have sent a message to the email describing my experience, and that there is no other way to continue on the Camino Invierno. I regret that I did not have the confidence to compose it in Spanish.I just got a response from an Invierno Association, which said they will are willing to try to help.
If you want to join in, feel free to send a message to the Camino Invierno Municipal Association. https://www.caminojacobeodeinvierno.org/la-asociacion/
info@caminojacobeodeinvierno.es
Sure. That's fine. When you know. But there are many who will walk the Invierno unaware of this dangerous place. I had no idea when I walked this route that I would encounter these dogs. It didn't "offend me", it terrified me. This is why, especially after several people have experienced the same thing, it is important to make the authorities aware, as the official camino path is the only way through this place.When I know there is somthing on a trail that offends me I will Walk another route. There are many. To each their own. I say no more......
There is an alternate path about 800 metres before the area with the dogs that goes through A Labrada. It adds about 2.5klms to the journey but at least it takes us past a small cafe and Albergue. It rejoins the official path at Igrexa de Santa Mariña de Barxa de Lor.Sure. That's fine. When you know. But there are many who will walk the Invierno unaware of this dangerous place. I had no idea when I walked this route that I would encounter these dogs. It didn't "offend me", it terrified me. This is why, especially after several people have experienced the same thing, it is important to make the authorities aware, as the official camino path is the only way through this place.
Jajaja, 13 million dogs in Spain!Sure. That's fine. When you know. But there are many who will walk the Invierno unaware of this dangerous place. I had no idea when I walked this route that I would encounter these dogs. It didn't "offend me", it terrified me. This is why, especially after several people have experienced the same thing, it is important to make the authorities aware, as the official camino path is the only way through this place.
That's just fine from a distance as we sit in our chairs at home looking at our online maps. Or without ever having had the terrifying experience that many have had there. But as @Theatregal says, many pilgrims are unaware of the potential problem until they're right on it.Jajaja, 13 million dogs in Spain!
There are alternate routes. Thanks for push. The same letter can be written in favor of the dog, I do believe.
No-one yet, as far as we know.Who has been in contact with this animal teeth. It's supposition only.
No-one yet.
Hopefully never.
I am perplexed at your defensiveness. Many people have been terrified here. And it is a consistent problem, not at all in the same league as the normal pilgrim-dog interaction. That is enough to warrant concern, at the very least.
Sorry you are perplexed! I will hold my tongue. Never was my intention to perplex, only clarify.
Buen camino
You can do that when you know about the danger, which I didn't of course, 2 years ago, and I do mean danger. Sadly, there wasn't a convenient signpost when we passed through. I have come across a fair number of the 13 and a half million dogs in Spain (not to mention several other countries around the world), but they were nothing like this. We post information as much as we can and try to label it as such so that readers understand we are warning about real dangers, not just airing our anxieties It would be rather nice if our fellow pilgrims took us at our word and accepted that this is a danger that needs to be addressed both for the sake of the thousands of pilgrims who do not assiduously read this forum but also for the local people who, having spoken to them I know, are also thoroughly fed up at these dogs and their owner.There is an alternate path about 800 metres before the area with the dogs that goes through A Labrada. It adds about 2.5klms to the journey but at least it takes us past a small cafe and Albergue. It rejoins the official path at Igrexa de Santa
When I know there is somthing on a trail that offends me I will Walk another route. There are many. To each their own. I say no more......
Excuse me? I have walked that trail many times x6. And I see that dog each time. For the record I was the 5th to walk after they made it an ofical camino. And one of the first of this group. Know your facts before engaging please.A lot of people, including myself, have gone to great lengths to point out that this is not a case of a barking/excited/intimidating/large etc dog of the type we encounter all the time, and I have encountered a lot of those. These dogs (or dog, I only saw one) are dangerous. Not many dogs are really dangerous, but these ones are. Please have a good read of the posts. I think you will find clarity there. And if anyone ever does 'come into contact with this animal's teeth', they will be seriously injured. You haven't seen the dog. I have.
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