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The situation is getting more absurd by the day. If she were to walk this week, and assuming that she stayed in either Nouvelle-Aquitaine or Occitanie during the past couple of weeks, she will not need to be in possession of a negative test result. She doesn't need to fill in the SpTH/FCS form.If she has a negative test before leaving home will she be allowed to cross the land border into Spain?
Yes.If she has a negative test before leaving home will she be allowed to cross the land border into Spain?
No.And will Albergues check her vaccine status whilst walking?
That's a good Idea! Testing is free to us and we get results within a few hours. I think students were testing often but I'm not sure. I'll ask as that's a great idea!@LesBrass, just curious, how common is voluntary rapid antigen self-testing in France? If I understand correctly, these tests are available and cheap or free of charge to the insured? What I would perhaps do if I were in your friend's situation with incomplete vaccination program, is self-testing every few days.
I've shied away from crossing national borders out of sheer fear ... fear of that nasal swab.
It is really not bad. I've had 2 PCR tests this month (one before leaving for Spain and the second in Santiago before returning to The Netherlands) and don't know why people make such a big deal...although I must say that the nurse in Santiago certainly went a bit deeper with the swab!I've shied away from crossing national borders on our small continent out of sheer fear ... fear of that nasal swab.
There rarely are -- my guess is that the vast majority are foot crossings by locals who are exempt from any test requirements, so it's likely to be poor use of Police resources versus checking private vehicles and trains.Hi. I am currently in Irun and just walked over to France this evening and back and there were no checks on pedestrians.
Oh come on! You're supposed to be a roughtie-toughtie Pilgrim!It’s the tickling of the tonsils does for me. Every time, sick bucket and towel close to hand
I've said it several times and I will happily say it one more timeHi. I am currently in Irun and just walked over to France this evening and back and there were no checks on pedestrians.
I've said it several times and I will happily say it one more time: the fact there there are no controls at a national border crossing doesn't mean that you don't have to comply with the rules about crossing that national border on the European continent.
I've done a bit of weeding in the meantime which is always good for thinking and I've developed some radical thoughts: if there's one group who ought be allowed to go travelling and walking this summer it's our 18-20 year olds in Spain and in neighbouring countries, many if not most of whom are responsible young adults. They've done a lot of waiting and of being confined to their home during the past 16 months. And not us middle-aged to senior globetrotters on our second or third or more camino.
This is an interesting issue which has not been discussed much on this forum. I have been double vaccinated with Pfizer. The welcome that I am now being offered from various countries, especially Spain, has taken my mind away from the important issue of being fully vaccinated and still able to contract and to pass on the virus to the unvaccinated or to others who, like myself, have been vaccinated but still have some vulnerability to infection. I have just been accepted as a hospitalera in one of the larger, and busier, donativo albergues on the Frances. I must see about getting a packet of the "at home, do it yourself" covid tests, to test myself at recommended intervals. I have no desire to be a camino "typhoid Mary." A few years ago, Calgary had a case of a woman working in a fast food restaurant who was passing on a serious infectious disease to customers, having no symptoms and no awareness that she was a carrier. Not me, please God!I have responsibilities to family, tribe and that bloke who delivers my wine to make sure I am not a threat to their safety.
She won't walk if she is not eligible and she hopes to have her vaccine soon
This kind of restraint in the face of challenge gives me hope for the world. It sounds like no problem, but she should keep an eye out for frequent changes in what is allowed and what not.it's been tough on his age group.
Thank you, @Albertagirl . For your service and your concern. I wish everyone in the world were as responsible - we'd be closer to being done with this by now.Not me, please God
I think you’ll find that most countries don’t accept the self test.I am thinking of what is called autotest in France. I know that the reliability is not great but it is better than nothing and as @LesBrass says, perhaps what is used in French schools anyway.
From what I understand, France is making an amazing effort with large-scale testing options.
It was merely a suggestion to be used on a voluntary and regular basis by those who are not vaccinated/had their last jab less than 14 days ago and who are already in Spain.most countries don’t accept the self test.
@LesBrass, I can no longer see the timeframe of your young friend and what you said about her motive.
She's a resident of France which is what matters; passports usually don't matter for Covid-19 related travel restrictions. As far as I remember whenever France had very strict rules for incoming travellers in place, French nationals and holders of French residents cards were allowed to return. Also, and I think you and your sister (?) will remember this, transit travel on land to return to the place of residence was always allowed. So no potential issues for returning.
Anyway, it's all relatively short distances and on land, and I doubt that there will be severe restrictions during the summer months for travel within the EU.
My main concern would be the heat during July and August, actually. How would first and second jab (if not single-dose Janssen) fit together with a Camino from SJPP?
I see that both Spain and France continue to make good progress with their vaccination campaigns: 60% of the adult population had at least one jab in both countries, according to the ECDC of today.
The Antigen tests tend to have a high incident of false positives necessitating a full PCR test. They are however unlikely to give a false negative, so their reliability for indicating that one does not have the Covid infection is very good.In the UK we can pick up RATs (Rapid Antigen Tests) for free from a variety of sources. They are self-tests and therefore not suitable for international travel but they do provide some assurance. I went to my first live music performance in 16 months on Friday. All very well behaved and very wonderful. Tested myself on Sunday and will test again tomorrow.
I have responsibilities to family, tribe and that bloke who delivers my wine to make sure I am not a threat to their safety.
There are two types of antigen test ; it's the lateral flow one that produces many false results. This is the self-administered one.The Antigen tests tend to have a high incident of false positives
I had one nasal swab -- a year ago -- and I was quite concerned about how it would feel. It was needless fear, I hardly felt it. I imagine those who give it have gotten better at doing it, but no guarantees, or course.I've shied away from crossing national borders on our small continent out of sheer fear ... fear of that nasal swab.
This really seems like an apples and oranges situation. It doesn't sound like any of those students were vaccinated, and they were likely engaging in much different bahavior than a pilgrim on the Camino.See the following for what *can* happen amongst youth and just did in Majorca: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57635377
Oh -- I don't mean that the walker would engage in such things, but that one might glance off such outbreaks because they simply can happen on the ground -- where a concert might happen, or the festival San Fermin, for example... many people, not all vaccinated... doing their thing... and leaving behind a mess for a walker to collide with.This really seems like an apples and oranges situation. It doesn't sound like any of those students were vaccinated, and they were likely engaging in much different bahavior than a pilgrim on the Camino.
The obvious solution is to get vaccinated.I have a young friend who is interested in walking the Camino this summer but who has not yet received her vaccine. She lives in France and is French Resident but holds a UK passport.
If she has a negative test before leaving home will she be allowed to cross the land border into Spain? And will Albergues check her vaccine status whilst walking? She won't walk if she is not eligible and she hopes to have her vaccine soon
Thanks in advance
It sounds like that is probably the planThe obvious solution is to get vaccinated.
Alternatively she's thinking of walking only half of the route.. She will have had both vaccines by then...
I get a "404 Page cannot be found error" when I click on the link. In fact, searching for "Palma Bellver hotel" on the BBC website yields no search results.See the following for what *can* happen amongst youth and just did in Majorca: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57635377
I get a "404 Page cannot be found error" when I click on the link. In fact, searching for "Palma Bellver hotel" on the BBC website yields no search results.
I did manage to read the BBC article on the Wayback Machine. I guess it was a little one-sided.
The story of Covid-19 outbreaks among hundreds of Spanish students on end-of-term school trips to Mallorca is in all the news. This article in the English language version of El Pais may be more balanced. Covid-19 health and safety rules were not obeyed and some of the irregular events with student irregular behaviour were organised by specialised travel agencies, also not complying with current rules, and who now risk being sued by Spanish authorities.
A far cry from what @LesBrass' young friend intends to do during her summer vacation time.
Yes, I had understood from your clarification that you were addressing the question of an individual's anxiety level.That question was “what is your friend’s risk tolerance?”
I quite agree, but nonetheless I have decided to volunteer in a large donativo albergue after I finish walking my own camino this fall. I shall hope that the general level of vaccination is high. I am fully vaccinated, but have no confidence in this as protection against the Delta variant of the virus, or any other new variant. I shall try to keep the place hygienic as much as possible and wear a mask whenever the albergue is open. But I cannot be sure about the behaviour of others.I personally would be more worried about sleeping in shared dormitories with others where I know nothing about their potential status of vaccination or infection or adherence to safety standards
Yes, I had understood from your clarification that you were addressing the question of an individual's anxiety level.
As to risks as such ... I personally find it very difficult to assess risk levels for an individual person as so much depends on behaviour and circumstances and chance encounters. I personally would be more worried about sleeping in shared dormitories with others where I know nothing about their potential status of vaccination or infection or adherence to safety standards than about the potential aftermath of local festivals or parties in a town where I am passing through, whether large scale or small scale. But that is just my gut feeling, I wouldn't know where to start working out actual risks for an individual person.
Oh, oh.The risk of dying from Covid-19 is extraordinarily dependent on age: It halves for each six to seven year age gap. This means that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 – much lower, but still not nothing.
There was an article in the Guardian recently where I am still trying to wrap my mind around. It is written by David Spiegelhalter who is chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at Cambridge and Anthony Masters who is statistical ambassador for the Royal Statistical Society. David Spiegelhalter also published an article in the BMJ last September: Use of “normal” risk to improve understanding of dangers of Covid-19.
In the Guardian article they write about the risk of dying of Covid-19, not about the risk of infecting others which is something else again and much harder to assess properly. This sentence caught me by surprise: The risk of dying from Covid-19 is extraordinarily dependent on age: It halves for each six to seven year age gap. This means that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 – much lower, but still not nothing.
This confirms my impression that proper risk assessment for an individual person is a rather complicated business.
I take it that you write from Canada? Seen from Canada, the situation is simple: you are either allowed to go on a non-essential trip to Spain or you are not allowed to do so; allowed/forbidden/advised against by either the Spanish government or by the Canadian government or by both.Personally IMHO, if you have to ask the question, perhaps that is a sign that you are not comfortable with your decision.
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