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I believe by special permission this route can be used. If I remember correctly, you need to demonstrate technical ability and have the correct gear. Too many folks dying otherwise.[/QUOTE
Here is an earlier thread from when the closure was announced.I believe by special permission this route can be used. If I remember correctly, you need to demonstrate technical ability and have the correct gear. Too many folks dying otherwise.
I think you got it allBOTTOM LINE:
Before 31 March, plan on taking the Valcarlos Route.
It appears to me, from Dan's translation that:
Did I miss anything of importance? Dan, thanks for the translation.
- Too many people have died, or have had to be rescued over the years, and the issue is becoming more critical, as rescue is getting more expensive to local governments.
- This issue is no longer permissive, or optional.
- It is now an order from the Spanish government, I do not know if provincial or federal level (does it really mater)?
- All pilgrims and other hikers crossing the Pyrenees during this time period are directed (ordered) to take he Valcarlos Route.
- Only documented, experienced winter hikers, with appropriate winter hiking gear will be allowed, under special permission to walk the Napoleon Pass.
I hope this helps.
There appears to be a good English rendition of the press release here on the American Pilgrims on the Camino website. Most of it is preamble, the important bits are in the last paragraph. http://www.americanpilgrims.com/cam...ute_overview_files/Napoleon_route_closure.pdfIt looks like the closure is an "order"from Spain.
I have translated the article and posted it in 2 parts in the attachment below
Kanga, You are correct about many first time pilgrims, myself included, are most likely startingIt concerns me that many first time pilgrims are setting off so early. Perhaps it is the mild weather. Or maybe indicative of an increase in the numbers overall.
And this is a new danger:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tures-appear-abominable-snowman-Pyrenees.html
Looks like he's heading towards the Route Napoleon
Just out of curiosity does anyone know the snow levels in the Pyrenees?
Gianni[/QUOT
700-900 m on Sunday Morning1430m
700-900 m on Sunday Morning
Our good friend @tyrrek might have a different view on that eventuality, but thats not pertinent to this debate.I have never heard of a pilgrim being shot.
There must not be special permission or exceptions. There is an alternanive and safier route. Firemen, police and other people risk their lives to save people that dont follow rules. It cost a lot of money and rarely people pay for a rescue.I believe by special permission this route can be used. If I remember correctly, you need to demonstrate technical ability and have the correct gear. Too many folks dying otherwise.
It concerns me that many first time pilgrims are setting off so early. Perhaps it is the mild weather. Or maybe indicative of an increase in the numbers overall.
There must not be special permission or exceptions. There is an alternanive and safier route. Firemen, police and other people risk their lives to save people that dont follow rules. It cost a lot of money and rarely people pay for a rescue.
I was the person who clouded the discussion by introducing this idea. As I understand it, the regulation said that no one was permitted to go that route "without express permission of the Navarra Emergency Agency", which suggests that permission might sometime be given. I was trying to counter the suggestion that one could get a permit if one arrived properly prepared. I suggested (foolishly perhapsThere is no provision by which 'hiking clubs', 'mountaineering societies'... can apply for a permit to attempt the Napoleon. Why would there be?
As I'll be walking prior to end of March I guess I'll be walking the Valcarlos route. Interested to know what you meant by your comment about the forrest and the rain.If anyone thinks Valcarlos is less a walk than over the top then they are in for a rude of wakening.
Staying on the road after Valcarlos will be very tiring if this is a one day walk to RON.
If you enter the forrest floor and there has been rain or its raining then you will wish for the route over the top very quickly.
Roncesvalles should be the starting point before the 1/4.
* My t/shirt , sold in Santiago [by the spanish] in that lovely dark blue that has faded considerably still has Roncesvalles as the starting point not StJPP.
In no sense is the Valcarlos route only road walking or without views! For a good idea of what it is do read this earlier Forum thread -- https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...svalles-–-in-praise-of-the-lower-route.16075/On the Valcarlos route:
Is it just road-walking and no views at all?
How many km is this route (to Roncesvalles)?
I am considering starting in Roncesvalles instead of SJPdP as I am going before 31. march. Is this what you would recommend?
Thanks xx
Hi Sophia, my wife walked the Valcarlos route in 2013 and she loved it.On the Valcarlos route:
Is it just road-walking and no views at all?
How many km is this route (to Roncesvalles)?
I am considering starting in Roncesvalles instead of SJPdP as I am going before 31. march. Is this what you would recommend?
Thanks xx
As I'll be walking prior to end of March I guess I'll be walking the Valcarlos route. Interested to know what you meant by your comment about the forrest and the rain.
This is the notification the Pilgrims office gave me on February 10 which calls for 12000 euro fine for going over the Napoleon route. They could not be more clear or explicit that it is forbidden .View attachment 24060View attachment 24061
Seems like they don't understand that if their foolhardy posteriors get stuck whilst unnecessarily walking over the Pyrenees during terrible weather, there will be people who have to risk their own lives (not to mention the monetary expense) to save said foolhardy posteriors. A rather egocentric way of thinking.The sign says the route is closed from 1 Nov.to 31 March. What is it that people can't understand.
The Naploleon Route might not be Technical using YDS/NCSS, however, the Navarre Rescue may require Ice/snow traversing standards or UIAA qualification standards and/or apply them to the Permit Process. I'm just trying to find out IF anyone has this info.
Thanks Arthur!!
I'm not Arthur. I was thanking Arthur for his information that actually was responsive to my question. Look up a couple of posts you'll see what I mean. Yes, I'm walking in May this year. However, maybe I'll walk in December this year as well.
Ignore the sign just bring a spare €17,000 with you in case you have to be rescuedI'm not trying to get into a big argument, but. You do understand that some folks actually like to hike technical routes? I named a few up top. Some folks enjoy the challenge of mountaineering. Clearly you don't, so, I wouldn't suggest you look any further into the Permit Process for the Napoleon Route in winter cause it isn't for you. We all need to know our limitations. But, to refer to others who do seek to mountaineer as "foolhardy" and "egocentric" is way out of line and has no room on this forum.
It's tough enough when the weather turns bad in Spring. Usually no climbing ropes needed for the technical though.
Our good friend @tyrrek might have a different view on that eventuality, but thats not pertinent to this debate.Context is everything. @t2andreo is absolutely correct, and I use the word in its absolute meaning, There is no process for applying for permission to cross the Route Napoleon when it is 'closed'. There is a process in place by which the Emergency Agency of Navarre may declare the route 'open'. Presumably they will do that if the prevailing weather conditions at the time suggest that it is and will be safe for Pilgrims to avail themselves of the route.
There is no provision by which 'hiking clubs', 'mountaineering societies', or collectives of aspiring suicides can apply for a permit to attempt the Napoleon. Why would there be? La Route Napoleon, a branch and by no means the prescribed route, of the Camino de Santiago is closed between the dates 1 November 2015 and 31 March 2016 unless an authority, in this case the EAN declares otherwise.
Meanwhile Pyrenean Bear Hunters, Yetis and Orujo smugglers romp the mountains with impunity. But they are (probably) not trying to get to Santiago.
I see you are from Santa Rosa. So am I and am walking the Camino Frances out of SJPP on June 10.Just out of curiosity does anyone know the snow levels in the Pyrenees?
Gianni
Do you meant the current depth of the snow in the Pyrenees? I can only imagine that it is still quite significant as Spain had an historic storm a couple of weeks which resulted in considerable snowfall in the mountains north of Barcelona.Just out of curiosity does anyone know the snow levels in the Pyrenees?
Gianni
It’s a shame they don’t open and close depending on the weather as it’s a super mild winter
The Valcarlos route is nice. I do not know why it is not more popular.I’m about to start Camino from St Jean tomorrow. It’s clear and sunny. Wish the Pyrenees way was open. It’s one of the best parts! It’s a shame they don’t open and close depending on the weather as it’s a super mild winter
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