gerardcarey
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- CFx2, CPx1
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?..... Would it have made any difference if he had stated his intention earlier?
It is NOT about people needing to be asked, but about people assuming that others HAVE TO grant them with certain entitlements when in fact they are been granted special considerations. If the man with the CPAP machine stepped in the front of a queu of waiting pilgrims with not a word to anybody, he was rude and created a bad situation. Mick had a problem with that and Mick should had been the better person, allowed the man to step in front, and find a better time to say something...if it remained that important 10 minutes later (...which I bet it did not).You're sitting comfortably and see a pregenant woman. Do you stand and give her your seat?
A parent carrying an infant is behind you inline at the grocery store. What do you do?
Do people really need to be ASKED?
Interesting post...Reality and the false perception of reality made by others as to what a person needs or even wants...like texting someone and it getting misinterpreted in the tone of the message.. a simple "I see you have a need, as I, how can we help each other?"It is NOT about people needing to be asked, but about people assuming that others HAVE TO grant them with certain entitlements when in fact they are been granted special considerations. If the man with the CPAP machine stepped in the front of a queu of waiting pilgrims with not a word to anybody, he was rude and created a bad situation. Mick had a problem with that and Mick should had been the better person, allowed the man to step in front, and find a better time to say something...if it remained that important 10 minutes later (...which I bet it did not).
It is TOTALLY the right thing to do to allow a person with a special need to step ahead, but WHAT IF MICK suffered from Chronic Fatigue, or had a torn meniscus, or was suffering from a blinding migraine? NONE of those conditions would have been obvious to anybody yet HE had more of an emergemcy situation to be given prompt access to rest than the man with the CPAP machine. I know somebody who has extremely bad knees and cannot stand on his feet for more than 5 minutes. If a pregnant woman steps in the bus and he is sitting comfortably...HE should remain sitting comfortably!! Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear.
amenInteresting post...Reality and the false perception of reality made by others as to what a person needs or even wants...like texting someone and it getting misinterpreted in the tone of the message.. a simple "I see you have a need, as I, how can we help each other?"
AmenTime to give it a rest.
Good questions to which there is no definitive answer. I have already asked whether this is fictional - a moot point on which to base a discussion, but have not had an answer. As a sufferer of mild sleep apnoea who normally uses a CPAP, I didn't carry mine on CF or St Olav's Way. I have medical advice that I will not suffer long term damage in those circumstances, although short term effects might present themselves. Other sufferers might not be so fortunate, and pretty much need to use their machines every night. I am not sure how we could be told apart.Was the guy with Sleep Apnoea actually asleep at the time and in danger? Or could he have walked for another 40 mins or so to the next albergue? He sounds like a rogue to me!
Sorry bout that. Down with flu bug, tho I usually computer only a once a day anyway.I have already asked whether this is fictional - a moot point on which to base a discussion, but have not had an answer.
i was not there so i will withhold judgement. however maybe it is a big misunderstanding between the pilgrim with the cpap machine and mike or a language problem of communication.
where are the compassion, tolerance, kindness and understanding on the path of the camino that i have seen on previous caminos?
I encountered it everywhere along the way, as I'm sure do most others.where are the compassion, tolerance, kindness and understanding on the path of the camino that i have seen on previous caminos?
Hey Pats. I believe Mick was right. I believe our CPAP man was being unkind as you put it, rude as I would put it. And you are correct, it's never ok to be unkind or rude. In fact it deserves a strong response.I think the main thing is that this was a learning experience for the people who experienced it.
It is never ok to be unkind...I don't care for what reason. You can speak strong words with a kind attitude. Being disabled or having a special need puts an amount of pressure on the person that those without disabilities could not possibly imagine. My feeling is is that this man was a little worried with the amount of people lining up that he may not be able to plug his machine in and therefore not be able to breathe properly. If Mike was aware of that then he was being quite selfish in his attitude. The thing is...when you think about it. It should not have bothered Mike at all. The man could been fit in behind you and Mike and then honestly it would have been the people behind you that should have said something if they were uncomfortable about it. And from what I am reading they weren't bothered by it. I suppose it could be chalked up to a bad day or poor manners...but one of the biggest things I think we are to learn on the Camino is how to be brothers and sisters...fellow pilgrims on this journey that takes us deep into Spirit. Perhaps the lesson here is how you handled it. It bothered you or you wouldn't say anything. I think what bothered you most is NOT saying anything because that speaks directly to who you are and your ability to speak out for what you believe is truth. So I ask you back was Mike wrong or right...based on your gut feeling about what the Truth is.
Had I been there I would have probably told Mike he was acting like a jack ass and invited the guy to take my spot and if it was a problem with the people behind me for me to stay there too then I would have gone to the back of the line simply to prove a point and let Mike be on his own if he wanted to behave like a creep. That way no one could have said anything and it would have been Mike in the spotlight instead of the poor man with sleep apnea. And Kudo's for him for bringing his machine ...He was saving the whole place from dealing with his personal snoring and that is a very kind thing to do.
In the U.S. that strong response can be from someone with a concealed weapon carry permit. Disrespect someone here, and it can cost you your life. Some think that is over-reaction. Obviously, others don't. Such is the nature of an opinion. It does not need to be fact-based, and often isn't. CPAPman could have handled it differently. If it wasn't his first day on the Camino, he probably should have learned already the right way to get accommodation, both from fellow pilgrims and hospitaleros. Still, his lack of grace does not require the rest of us to act like jerks. We choose to do that!! We can choose to act with grace, too.it's never ok to be unkind or rude. In fact it deserves a strong response.
But as an old and experienced long distance hiker, I firmly believe that most people who choose to experience life on the trail would also choose to be accommodating rather than confrontational. I just have not met too many jerks on the trail.In the U.S. that strong response can be from someone with a concealed weapon carry permit. Disrespect someone here, and it can cost you your life. Some think that is over-reaction. Obviously, others don't. Such is the nature of an opinion. It does not need to be fact-based, and often isn't. CPAPman could have handled it differently. If it wasn't his first day on the Camino, he probably should have learned already the right way to get accommodation, both from fellow pilgrims and hospitaleros. Still, his lack of grace does not require the rest of us to act like jerks. We choose to do that!! We can choose to act with grace, too.
I agree. However, with nearly 200,000 pilgrims and a hundred different languages and cultures, there are more places for friction on the Camino Frances than, say, the Appalachian Trail. It is easier to be irritated if you let yourself be.I just have not met too many jerks on the trail.
This makes me think that Mick is wrong for a third reason. It would appear that he had ample time to raise his concerns before it reached the point described in the scenario described by @gerardcarey. Stewing on it was wrong when dealing with it earlier could have achieved a resolution with less aggravation. Sensible discussion might have replaced Irish anger.Mick may well have been stewing for some time about the situation and therefore about the impending altercation. He perhaps spoke more sternly than was required but that is just splitting hairs IMO.
Annelise - don't be put off by this or any other discussion. This forum has a rarefied atmosphere far removed from reality. The written word lacks the nuances of human interaction. The negative and the confrontational often result in lengthy discussion which can focus on the worst of human behavior. However there are far more examples of the very best experiences all over this forum.I am somehow troubled about this discussion, the reason being that two years ago ago I had to have a full shoulder implant.
Since then – after rehabilitation - I have always wanted to go back to the Camino, but am now not sure whether I would wish to do so. I would hate confrontations with fellow pilgrims, but the fact is that I would certainly not wish the risk of having to climb up to an upper berth (and getting down again).
Annelise
Fair point Doug. While I would never have handled the situation as forcefully as Mick did, I do believe it was a situation that needed to be handled. I simply defend his right to do so.I'm sorry, Gerrard, I cannot find anything in this that justifies Mick's behaviour, and quite a lot that says that it was wrong. My view simply is that if he wasn't prepared to deal with the issue when the man went to the head of the queue, Mick had lost any moral right to deal with it later.Regards,
Steven is without question correct Annelise. Although eliciting a lively reaction our discussion encompasses one small, unusual and relatively unimportant incident on the Camino. As one who is on his fifth hip may I assure you that efforts to cater for disability on the Camino are without parallel. Without exception I find hospitaleros and pilgrims helpful and kind to the needs of the disabled (and somewhat disabled).Annelise - don't be put off by this or any other discussion. This forum has a rarefied atmosphere far removed from reality. The written word lacks the nuances of human interaction. The negative and the confrontational often result in lengthy discussion which can focus on the worst of human behavior. However there are far more examples of the very best experiences all over this forum.
Sleep apnea and a CPAP machine are more like asthma than a shoulder replacement. It takes a very expansive view of "disability" to include a CPAP machine...
Falcon, you might be correct that a person who is able to treat their obstructive sleep apnoea with CPAP will not suffer from its many debilitating effects, and for most practical purposes, can function quite normally. I could make exactly the same point about someone with a joint replacement, which also removes the disabling cause, or an asthmatic who has their condition under control. They will not be physically challenged while they can continue their treatment.Sleep apnea and a CPAP machine are more like asthma than a shoulder replacement. It takes a very expansive view of "disability" to include a CPAP machine...
Pardon my ignorance, but who was Paul Harvey?Where is Paul Harvey (deceased) when you need the rest of the story.
Thx. I'm still not sure that I understand the original reference, but I suppose it must mean something to those reading who are from the US.Right wing American Broadcaster, had a regular feature called "the rest of the story" or similar , here you go... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Harvey
Pardon my ignorance, but who was Paul Harvey?
One should never assume that their condition is more serious than anyone elses in any que. In any one que you could have a full range of ailments and who is to say which is more deserving of first place in that que.
The words "dead horse" and "flogging" come to mind now for this thread and getting personal with other members is neither helping the discussion or the forum.
Harvey was a high school classmate of my father in Tulsa, Oklahoma. When they held their 50th reunion, Harvey asked for an honorarium to appear. THAT is the rest of the story!If you want more information on Paul Harvey
Harvey was a high school classmate of my father in Tulsa, Oklahoma. When they held their 50th reunion, Harvey asked for an honorarium to appear. THAT is the rest of the story!
Totaly agree, goes without saying.The hospitalero has the last word as he/she is the one who runs the albergue.
Buen Camino!
Now I get it. I agree. I also wondered whether this was a moot - a scenario set up merely to generate discussion, but @gerardcarey replied that he described a real event.My point was is that this thread is built on the statement of one person. Yet we have gone on and on about Mick and beyond without really having all the facts of what transpired (the rest of the story). Some light humor.
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