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On the south side of the altar there is a small statue, helpfully labelled "STA SALOME". On the north side of the altar there is a similar sized figure holding a scroll, on which I am unable to read all the letters. Since Salomé was James's mother. I am guessing that the figure represents Zebedee, James's father. On the offertory box below the figure it say "Zebedeo" which is a big clue. Can anybody tell me what is written on the scroll?View attachment 113933
I hope nobody says, "Time for bed!"
I hope nobody says, "Time for bed!"
I don't get it. Figure 8 shows the Portico de la Gloria. The paragraph on P.20 refers to Figure 9 which shows Santiago on the Altar Mayor. I can see nothing that tells me what is on the scroll held by the figure in my photo. The last paragraph on p.20 ends at the bottom of p.20. A new paragraph starts at the top of p.21. Did you link to the wrong part of the document?Found this information that you might find helpful:
https://dadun.unav.edu/bitstream/10171/38513/1/CCPAN_05. LIBRO COMPLETO.-3.pdf
Explanation can be found on the bottom of p.20 beginning the last paragraph that ends on p.21 in relation to fig. 8 (shown on p.30)
Ultreïa!
Bert45, to my chagrin, I don't speak or read Latin, but perhaps I can help get you started. At the following link you will find this article: SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA Y LA DEVOCIÓN AL APÓSTOL SANTIAGO ALFEO, LA OTRA FAZ DEL CULTO JACOBEO by José Manuel García Iglesias of the Universidad de Santiago de CompostelaOn the south side of the altar there is a small statue, helpfully labelled "STA SALOME". On the north side of the altar there is a similar sized figure holding a scroll, on which I am unable to read all the letters. Since Salomé was James's mother. I am guessing that the figure represents Zebedee, James's father. On the offertory box below the figure it say "Zebedeo" which is a big clue. Can anybody tell me what is written on the scroll?
Following this lead, I have come across some additional information.Bert45, to my chagrin, I don't speak or read Latin, but perhaps I can help get you started. At the following link you will find this article: SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA Y LA DEVOCIÓN AL APÓSTOL SANTIAGO ALFEO, LA OTRA FAZ DEL CULTO JACOBEO by José Manuel García Iglesias of the Universidad de Santiago de Compostela
Using the pagination of the article, scroll to page 231 where you will find this picture:
View attachment 114033
At page 216 of that article there is the following Spanish sentence:
Un Santiago el Menor sedente se presenta en el crucero de la catedral, en su lado norte, arrimado al pilar toral, sobre un limosnero. Está figura despliega un texto, en una cartela, que dice: «ECCE
ARCA HOPERIS BEATI IACOBI APOSTOLI»
Using various translation tools, I get the following very rough translation of the Spanish. (From your original post, I assume the word "beggar" below refers to the offertory box--or perhaps there is a beggar below the statue.)
A seated Santiago el Minor appears on the transept of the cathedral, on its north side, leaning against the main pillar, over a beggar. This figure displays a text, on a cartouche, that says: ECCE ARCA HOPERIS BEATI IACOBI APOSTOLI.
The Latin is translated as: "Behold the ark of the work of Blessed James the Apostle."
The problem I have is that I cannot tell from the article if the referenced text refers to the text shown in the above-inserted picture which is identified as "Lam. 3." Someone who reads Latin should be able to solve the puzzle.
Bueno suerte!
Deepl.com is often more useful than Google Translate. In this case, below the translation windows, Deepl.com offers this for Spanish arca: chest, treasury, coffer.I speak no Spanish so my understanding of this paper is derived only from small snippets that Google has translated for me - a reader fluent in Spanish might get a different slant on things... I am unsure exacty what the "Ark" might be..
There are some wonderous translations for this Latin phrase on the internet. I love “ark of hope of the Apostle Santiago”The phrase: ECCE ARCA HOPERIS BEATI IACOBI APOSTO (LI) Google translates to "Here is the Ark of the Work of Santiago Apóstol
Brilliant.And the art of translation ... I had given a literal translation so that people can see what each Latin word means. How would I translate medieval church Latin Ecce arca Hoperis Beati Iacobi Apostoli into modern language in this context? Like this:
The real stories are often more fascinating than the myths and legends and free associations. The popularity of saints in the Middle Ages rose and waned. The cult (in the sense of devotion) of James the Younger (my preferred moniker) was more wide-spread and important to the faithful then than it was later. The various Jameses of the New Testament - James the Greater who is 'our' Santiago, James the Less who is the one associated with this statue, and the author of the Epistle of James - often got mixed up, and the distinction that we make today between these three personalities wasn't important to the faithful or not even known to them.And it rings much more true than abstruse biblical interpretations.
of interest yet don't see any explanation. Of interest there is a Church rarely open that is dedicated to St James mother in Santiago. I had the opportunity to enter it once there was a baptism going on ; the church is very beautiful and the statue of St. Salome and other saints real clothes which seems to be a tradition in Latin countries.On the south side of the altar there is a small statue, helpfully labelled "STA SALOME". On the north side of the altar there is a similar sized figure holding a scroll, on which I am unable to read all the letters. Since Salomé was James's mother. I am guessing that the figure represents Zebedee, James's father. On the offertory box below the figure it say "Zebedeo" which is a big clue. Can anybody tell me what is written on the scroll?View attachment 113933
I hope nobody says, "Time for bed!"
Interesting! I didn't know that.There is a Church rarely open that is dedicated to St James mother in Santiago.
I am confused by the use of U for T; I can come up with reasons for the strange looks for the other characters though. I'm assuming that the stone cutter used a paper version handwritten by a priest as the source for cutting. So some transfiguration from thought to paper to stone would happen but a T to a U? In classical Latin there was a T and a U would be carved as a V.I found a high resolution image and retraced the letters. I would never have guessed that these letters say: ECCE ARCA HOPERIS BEATI IACOBI APOSTI (I think the last word is abbreviated). Would you have guessed it?
View attachment 114121
Anyone know anything about this? I will accept wild speculation too if labeled as such.
Would I have guessed it? Perhaps not entirely. Once I know what it says, I can easily read it from the image. It helps that I spent a long time a while ago studying medieval calligraphy. Your tracing is only partial and doesn't include lines that I can see, perhaps because I know that they would be there, like the horizontal line across the top of the A in ARCA.I found a high resolution image and retraced the letters. I would never have guessed that these letters say: ECCE ARCA HOPERIS BEATI IACOBI APOSTI (I think the last word is abbreviated). Would you have guessed it?
View attachment 114121
The AP is on the previous line at the end. The lines break in the middle of words. There was a medieval T that instead of having a vertical descended had a very curved one. I can imagine one looking almost like a U. The horizontal line at the top is so faint as to perhaps require some imagination to see. Other letters are difficult to decipher if one isn't aware of medieval calligraphic practices, like using a vertical like (often curved) to close the Cs and Es that we leave open, as we see in the ECCE.I asked a learned friend of mine to take a look at this thread. [He is learned in Latin and Greek and is teaching himself Egyptian hieroglyphics.] One of his comments: "I've never seen opus with an h, but there's always a first time, and intrusive H's are not only the hypercorrective province of Cockney speakers, but go way back." Another: "Those T's are just rather mannered." If you look VERY carefully you can see (or imagine that you can see) a vertical line with a diamond mark in the middle after the final I of IACOBI. I take this to be some sort of punctuation mark. He believes the last line to be OSTL, i.e (AP)OSTOL abbreviated.
Neither have I, so I researched it. Hopus appears in Medieval Latin texts and can be found in dictionaries for Medieval Latin. Hopus instead of Classical Latin opus even appears in the Codex Calixtinus, Book II, Miracles. I found it twice, and that's just the nominative form.I've never seen opus with an h
I remember having seen capital T‘s in the manner you describe. And now that you pointed it out I also see the vertical line across the top of the capital A’s. I’m going to edit my post. I will like it betterThere was a medieval T that instead of having a vertical descended had a very curved one. I can imagine one looking almost like a U.
Recently I looked up the Galician -eiro suffix. It's awfully useful.Their donations were supervised by Cathedral staff. One of them was the arqueiro or arqueyro - the donation box [arca] guy.
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