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Since when?In the past you could show up toward the end of a mass. Now you must be in place at the start.
I thought a Galician doctor now living in the South of Spain is now paying for the Friday evening swing. Has this changed?If anyone has the straight story on the Friday evening use issue, please contribute it to the dialog.
I thought a Galician doctor now living in the South of Spain is now paying for the Friday evening swing. Has this changed?
I thought a Galician doctor now living in the South of Spain is now paying for the Friday evening swing. Has this changed?
I guess it's easy to be cranky if you have already seen the Botufumeiro swing once or even several times before and/or live so close that you can go see it on the fixed liturgical feast days if you wanted to and/or know that you can visit again any time soon. Please have some empathy for @DeniseT from Australia who I believe is going to visit Santiago for the first time .... And didn't it swing for the pilgrims of old every day ... ?
Good to hear from you again and buena suerte to @DeniseT.
I guess it's easy to be cranky if you have already seen the Botufumeiro swing once or even several times before and/or live so close that you can go see it on the fixed liturgical feast days if you wanted to and/or know that you can visit again any time soon.
I don't see that anyone indicated in this thread that they were expecting it to swing for them at a certain day and for free (to them). .
Well said, Rebekah. The Botafumeiro has become something of a secular icon associated with a pilgrim's arrival in Santiago, much in the same way that many now see the Camino experience as "incomplete" unless they continue on to Finisterre and/or Muxia. All pilgrims--regardless or spiritual or religious beliefs--would be wise to understand the significance of incense in general and the Botafumeiro in particular in the Catholic liturgy. This quote from the Cathedral's website explains it well:I may be in the cranky minority, but I really like it this way. So much of the Camino is utterly random. This oughtta be, too. Programming it cheapens the experience; it turns into another banal tourist performance piece where the Mass is lost somewhere among the I-cameras and Booking dot Com.
That is a bit coy! If it were completely about the symbolism, the hand-held thurible would do quite nicely. It is a "show" by the Catheral, and I don't see any reason for them to be ashamed of that. It can be designed as a show and still be an important part of the solemnity of the mass.This quote from the Cathedral's website explains it well:
Yes, you could perhaps say that it is a bit (or maybe more than a bit) of a show. I'm not sure what you mean by "them" being ashamed of it, though. I was merely attempting to make those not familiar with the use of incense in the Catholic liturgy to understand the meaning behind it. I doubt that anyone beyond the first few rows of pews would be able to see a hand-held thurible.That is a bit coy! If it were completely about the symbolism, the hand-held thurible would do quite nicely. It is a "show" by the Catheral, and I don't see any reason for them to be ashamed of that. It can be designed as a show and still be an important part of the solemnity of the mass.
We caught it on back to back masses on a Saturday in May. Double treat for us. Masses were 10:45 and noonish.hi, hearing so many variation should on the friday the weekly service happens with the swinging invent vase. I am 2 wks out of Santiago and keen to find out what time is it and is it in a Friday. I know we can pay to have the ceremony but would much rather be there for the whole service.
Thanks all in advance
Buen Camino
... I don't see myself returning to that church for mass the next time I'm in Santiago.
wrong, it swings when a group pay to have it done outside of the feast days. The 5-6 people who operate the device have to be available and may have to get off their normal work etc. They have lives too. I am just back and I did not see it swing 0ver quite a few masses but I have seen it before.I would like to hear what other folks have found the ACTUAL frequency butafumeiro to be at the daily noon pilgrim mass. We have attended the noon pilgrim mass about a dozen times in the last 4 years and there has only been once when it did NOT swing. None of these days were feast days, or special in any way that we knew of. I know there is no guarantee on any given day (other than feast days), but my experience makes me think that on most days it does swing.
I would like to hear what other folks have found the ACTUAL frequency butafumeiro to be at the daily noon pilgrim mass. We have attended the noon pilgrim mass about a dozen times in the last 4 years and there has only been once when it did NOT swing. None of these days were feast days, or special in any way that we knew of. I know there is no guarantee on any given day (other than feast days), but my experience makes me think that on most days it does swing.
wrong, it swings when a group pay to have it done outside of the feast days. The 5-6 people who operate the device have to be available and may have to get off their normal work etc. They have lives too. I am just back and I did not see it swing 0ver quite a few masses but I have seen it before.
I know this original posting was 5 years ago BUT I wondered if there is a link to find out the dates of the "swing" please. ThanksIMHO, here is no substitute for seeing the Botafumeiro "fly" after you have completed an arduous Camino, at least once. This is particularly the case if you are an observant Christian, or anyone who appreciates the history and traditions behind the use of this oversized censer.
However, and NOT trying to be snarky, you can easily see the Botafumeiro fly on You Tube. There are probably hundreds of videos shot by pilgrims and tourists available there. The only difference is that you are not THERE. Smell is optional too. The incense does have an odor...
This said, and counting myself in the "cranky crowd" as well, I will impart one piece of advice. As has been said already, the Cathedral sponsors using the Botafumeiro on Catholic holy days and other significant days as determined by the Archbishop. Again, as stated above, these dates ARE published in advance. You COULD plan your Camino around these dates.
Alternatively, I have found over five-years that determining if some large group or organization will be attending Mass at the Cathedral for some purpose or another is a very good indicator that the Botafumeiro will be used. For example, each June, the Spanish military holds a commemorative Mass, or several. The Botafumeiro is used.
Throughout "the season" (Easter to October) one pilgrim or tourist group, or another entity will pay to have the Botafumeiro used at a Mass the group attends. For example, a large group of pilgrims from a parish, civic organization, club, or pilgrim society will sponsor the Botafumeiro. If you can watch the local newspaper for upcoming events like this, it would also be a good indicator that the Botafumeiro. Conversely, a tourist company, having brought several hundred tourists into Santiago, might easily pay the cost to have the Botafumeiro used.
Just as an FYI, the six fellows who pull the ropes also clean and prepare the Botafumeiro for each use. They are lay people (non-religious) who must be paid. I was informed a couple of years ago, that the overall cost for all aspects of the Botafumeiro ceremony is about €400. This explains why the Cathedral is not able to afford to fly it everyday.
In previous years, the local hoteliers & restaurant association funded the Friday 19:30 Mass use of the Botafumeiro. Their reason was simple, people would come to Mass to see the Botafumeiro. Then these folks would eat in the hundreds of fine restaurants and stay in their hotels. However, and as indicated by one posted above, this practice has apparently been discontinued. So, we are back to chaos theory and chance...
If anyone has the straight story on the Friday evening use issue, please contribute it to the dialog. I will return to work as a volunteer for a month at the Pilgrim Office, in three weeks. When I arrive, I will certainly learn the current state of affairs. But, knowing sooner, and in the forum, would help others.
I hope this helps.
It is part of the traditional Catholic Mass at the Cathedral in Santiago. The only guaranteed days it will be used is on official Church Holy Days celebrated by the diocese. At other times, it’s use may be sponsored by visiting pilgrim groups, but those occurrences are not publicized and you will not know until it is actually put into use.I know this original posting was 5 years ago BUT I wondered if there is a link to find out the dates of the "swing" please. Thanks
They can't post a schedule because, in addition to the very few days that they know it will be used, it is also used whenever an individual or group pays the cost to have it swung.Even if they knew in advance, the people at the Pilgrim Office who coordinate subscriptions (paying) to have the Botafumeiro used at particular Masses NEVER tell anyone. When I am volunteering there, the sole clue is when two or three of the staff quietly close up shop and leave for the Cathedral slightly after noon. These fellows are among the eight tirabuleiros (the rope pullers) for the ceremony.
I have been working there every year since 2014, sans 2020 for COVID, and I can never get advance knowledge. So, if you are not there for Mass on a major Catholic solemnity or Holy Day, you just need to have faith.
That said, if you go to You Tube and search for Botafumeiro, Santiago de Compostela, you will find dozens of videos of the ceremony recorded by irreverent pilgrims. Incidentally, this is precisely why the ceremony was moved from the start of the Mass where it would be traditionally, and after the Mass has formally ended. Once the ceremony starts, all control over the spectators is lost.
Hope this helps.
Tom
And multiple groups would all get the same front pews? They don't post a schedule simply because if they did, and everybody knew, the botafumeiro masses would be overwhelmed (and perhaps the non botafumeiro masses, underwhelmed).They can't post a schedule because, in addition to the very few days that they know it will be used, it is also used whenever an individual or group pays the cost to have it swung.
I guess one advantage of never telling anyone is that they might get multiple groups to pay that cost for swinging in the same mass.
Count me in also.Count me into the Cranky Camino Crowd ;-) BC SY
The Botafumeiro operates during the following Solemnities:I know this original posting was 5 years ago BUT I wondered if there is a link to find out the dates of the "swing" please. Thanks
I've recently watched a few pilgrim masses online. Yesterday evening (May 23) was one of the days where one of those masses was held where it is known beforehand that the Botafumeiro will swing. It was not any different from other days: When the censer starts to swing, the smartphones are held up and start to record.Knowing the schedule ahead of time creates a circus, pilgrims and tourists not interested in the mass at all with cameras ready and clicking as if a show was taking place
Any idea of how much that cost is?They can't post a schedule because, in addition to the very few days that they know it will be used, it is also used whenever an individual or group pays the cost to have it swung.
I guess one advantage of never telling anyone is that they might get multiple groups to pay that cost for swinging in the same mass.
According to another post earlier this month it costs €450Any idea of how much that cost is?
Thank you again, your attention to fact and detail allowed me to catch the swinging of the Botafumeiro just now. A welcome moment of reflection in a busy morning. I have noted the website for the masses.I'm a little surprised to see how empty the Cathedral is every day at the time of the Misa del Peregrino at 7:30 and 9:30. The left transept that is fully visible in one of the webcams has several dozens of seats, perhaps 80-100 in total. Only 3 of them were occupied at the first mass today and only 8 at the second mass right now at 9:30. And if I understood correctly I think that the priest has just announced the name of the person who is going to offer the Botafumeiro ...
At first, I was intrigued by this new live streaming option that the Cathedral had announced in their newsletter. Then I got interested in some technicalities. Today I tried to pay more attention to the sermon. The spoken Spanish is clear and relatively slow but my Spanish is not good enough to allow me to follow easily and understand everything. And at the end, as I mentioned already, I caught this: el incienso se lleva a Dios [something something] oracion ... words and meaning that may sometimes get lost in all this quest to know dates and times in an effort to be there 'at the right time' ...Thank you again, your attention to fact and detail allowed me to catch the swinging of the Botafumeiro just now. A welcome moment of reflection in a busy morning.
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