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You can be off an international flight in Biarritz and arrive in SJPDP in a couple of hours by public transport for about 12 euro if your timing is right. And less time but slightly more money if you book with Express Bourricot. Much harder to do that with Somport.I don't agree that it is easier to get to. Seems like an equal amount of flights, trains, buses to bothe SJPDP and Somport. It's a cute town, though.
B, do you know why the Somport was his first option!he actually describes the Somport route as his first option. I think that accessibility may have a lot to do with it: it's so much easier to get to!
It doesn't it starts when you leave home, sjpp is just a 20th century convention to organize tourism, you literally can start anywhere in europeOkay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
No, these 3 routes (Via Podiensis, Via Turonensis and Via Lemovicensis) meet in Ostabat, a step before. But SJPP is much more accessible.that 3 of the 4 main routes thru France meet in SJPDP
Yes, but why?.Interesting. The idea that this holy pilgrimage begins in a place where a bloke with a yellow arrow and a mallet said “this’ll do” has great appeal to me!
It does not: in France, yellow arrows are not used. GR signs (red and white) are used instead, at least for Via Podiensis, because the GR65 takes the same way than it.The idea that this holy pilgrimage begins in a place where a bloke with a yellow arrow
For the individual, I beg to differ. Respectfully that is.No, these 3 routes (Via Podiensis, Via Turonensis and Via Lemovicensis) meet in Ostabat, a step before. But SJPP is much more accessible.
I think it is useless to search an historical reason. The Camino as we know it today hold many other reasons (tourism, finance, economy, hiking...) which are more important than history...
I don't know for sure but he mentions that the Somport route is the one described in the Codex Calixtinus which was the first medieval "guide book" for the Camino. Perhaps he felt that gave it some historical precedence.B, do you know why the Somport was his first option!
Yes, probably from the UK, you are right. From where I live it takes several plane hops to get anywhere in Europe.You can be off an international flight in Biarritz and arrive in SJPDP in a couple of hours by public transport for about 12 euro if your timing is right. And less time but slightly more money if you book with Express Bourricot. Much harder to do that with Somport.
Those three historical routes met up at Ostabat which is about 20km north-east of SJPDP. My best guess is that Ostabat is a much more difficult place to get to and had little infrastructure for modern pilgrims. SJPDP had the advantages of being on one of the historical paths, had good transport links, and was large enough to provide practical support for pilgrims beginning their journey there.Good question. I always thought, it might be, in a pseudo-historical context, that 3 of the 4 main routes thru France meet in SJPDP. But I have no idea if thats correct. Might be they met somewhere else, say, 200 years ago.
Curious if someone will provide more accurate information...
Code Calixtinus tells about the 4 routes (Podiensis, Turonensis, Lemovicensis and Tolosana): it does not give precedence to one or another. It is more attached to sanctuaries and relics than to routes themselves. As @buridan has stated: in the past, the Camino started from home. Today, spanish pilgrims name "True Way" the way which starts from home.I don't know for sure but he mentions that the Somport route is the one described in the Codex Calixtinus which was the first medieval "guide book" for the Camino.
Code Calixtinus tells about the 4 routes (Podiensis, Turonensis, Lemovicensis and Tolosana): it does not give precedence to one or another.
If you look carefully, Don Elias starts it in Ostabat in his map of the whole Camino (p.9 in my copy). In the text, when he gets around to that route, he first shows a map of SJPDP but the text starts with Ostabat and the close up map of SJPDP shows the route entering from Ostabat and Sta. Palais.I think mostly because Don Elias Valina chose it as the starting point for his newly mapped and signposted route in the 1980s. Before that walking pilgrims to Santiago made up their own routes and setting-off points. What interests me more is why SJPDP has become the de facto starting point for most international long-distance Camino Frances pilgrims when Don Elias made it the second option in his famous guidebook - he actually describes the Somport route as his first option. I think that accessibility may have a lot to do with it: it's so much easier to get to!
The outline map does start at Ostabat but the 1985 edition I have does not have any description or detail maps for the route between Ostabat and SJPDP. So in practical terms as a guide it starts in SJPDP.If you look carefully, Don Elias starts it in Ostabat in his map of the whole Camino (p.9 in my copy). In the text, when he gets around to that route, he first shows a map of SJPDP but the text starts with Ostabat and the close up map of SJPDP shows the route entering from Ostabat and Sta. Palais.
Short answer: it doesn't.Okay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
And some of the locals and hospitaleros on the Primitivo will tell you that the Camino Frances ends in Melide where it is subsumed into the Primitivo!So what makes sense to me is that the "Camino Frances" starts where one can no longer specify the Camino with one of the three routes that join together.
That is not true.The Somport pass and the Cize (Roncesvalles) passes are the only ones listed in Book V of the Codex Calixtinus.
I will leap in (let's see if I beat Bradypus to it) to say Saint-Michel is included in Don Elias' guide.That is not true.
Below is the beginning of this book. In French, but I can post the latin version if you want ;-)
Notice that "Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port" did not exist yet, while the village of "Saint-Michel" is named...
The Somport pass and the Cize (Roncesvalles) passes are the only ones listed in Book V of the Codex Calixtinus. None of the dozens of other passes in the Pyrenees are mentioned.
No need to post it, I've read it - or rather deciphered it - in Latin but it's been a while.That is not true. Below is the beginning of this book. In French, but I can post the latin version if you want ;-)
And then what? Which pass are we supposed to take to cross over into Spain to reach Roncesvalles other than the ones already mentioned ("Cize pass", "Roncesvalles pass", Ibañeta pass, Bentearte pass, Lepoeder pass - all names used for the area's passes and basically all the same or with barely a difference as to the approach from the north/lower area? Or perhaps, being a non-native speaker of English, I have not yet grasped the full meaning of (mountain) pass? Or perhaps I did not understand the initial question? Are we discussing the question of why is it Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and not Caro and not Saint-Jean-Le-Vieux and not Saint-Michel?will leap in (let's see if I beat Bradypus to it) to say Saint-Michel is included in Don Elias' guide.
You can read it in the attachment: in addition to "col de Cize" (3 routes), the Somport (1 route) is mentioned.Which other passes in the Pyrenees are mentioned in Book V of the Codex Calixtinus
I am sorry but you really need to help me out here. Wasn't that exactly what I wrote and to which you replied: "Not true"? I wrote and you quoted it: "The Somport pass and the Cize (Roncesvalles) passes are the only ones listed in Book V of the Codex Calixtinus".You can read it in the attachment: in addition to "col de Cize" (3 routes), the Somport (1 route) is mentioned.
I am sorry, I read your comment too quickly. However, you begin it with:I am sorry but you really need to help me out here.
In Don Elias' guidebook, if we choose to go from Saint-Michel, we continue on to the Cize pass through what we now call the Napoleon route. It joins up with the regular route from SJPDP at Untto (which I think is now called Hunto). You can see it in the map I included. I wasn't trying to contradict you or challenge what you had written. We had been discussing Don Elias' guide earlier in the discussion. You mentioned the Saint Michel from the Codex Calixtinus. I thought it was interesting that a route through there was preserved in Don Elias' book. Simple as that.And then what? Which pass are we supposed to take to cross over into Spain to reach Roncesvalles other than the ones already mentioned ("Cize pass", "Roncesvalles pass", Ibañeta pass, Bentearte pass, Lepoeder pass - all names used for the area's passes and basically all the same or with barely a difference as to the approach from the north/lower area? Or perhaps, being a non-native speaker of English, I have not yet grasped the full meaning of (mountain) pass? Or perhaps I did not understand the initial question? Are we discussing the question of why is it Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and not Caro and not Saint-Jean-Le-Vieux and not Saint-Michel?
To be fair to the OP, I think this is a question of nomenclature. And in that sense, yes the route named the "Camino Frances" does begin in SJPdP. So the question becomes: how did each route get their name and how was their start (and end) points determined. This is more of a recent history, than a medieval history, question.Short answer: it doesn't.
Longer answer, there are a number of places the "Camino Frances" begins, depending on how one defines the Camino Frances. One place that used to be used was Puente la Reina, where the four routes from France described in the Codex Calixtinus join. People who use this starting point describe the route over the Somport pass as the Camino Aragones and the route via Roncesvalles as the Camino Navarro. Others included both the Camino Navarro and the Camino Aragones in the Camino Frances, giving it multiple starting points (as the Camino Mozarabe has).
More recently, people are starting not to include the Camino Aragones in the Camino Frances. So the "Camino Frances" now refers to the Camino Navarro on through Puente la Reina to Santiago. But where does the Camino Aragones start?
Remember, this all stems from the Codex Calixtinus and it's four routes from France to Santiago (as Payafac describes above). So what makes sense to me is that the "Camino Frances" starts where one can no longer specify the Camino with one of the three routes that join together. That point would be Ostabat. Before Ostabat you are on one of the other three routes. After Ostabat, you are on all of them. What's the name we have for the confluence of those three routes? Camino Frances.
But Ostabat is a tiny village. Some 20 km further on is a town that has good transportation links making it much easier to get to, more places to stay and provision. It's not hard to see why many (pilgrims and guidebook writers) choose this instead as the starting point for their pilgrimage.
If the Camino Frances starts in SJPDP, what's the name of the route you are on between Ostabat and SJPDP?To be fair to the OP, I think this is a question of nomenclature. And in that sense, yes the route named the "Camino Frances" does begin in SJPdP. So the question becomes: how did each route get their name and how was their start (and end) points determined. This is more of a recent history, than a medieval history, question.
All the literature I've ever seen that uses the modern nomenclature of "Camino Frances" starts in SJPdP. So I'm not talking history here, I'm talking labels.If the Camino Frances starts in SJPDP, what's the name of the route you are on between Ostabat and SJPDP?
It is considered as a part of Via Podiensis.what's the name of the route you are on between Ostabat and SJPDP?
I don't agree that it is easier to get to. Seems like an equal amount of flights, trains, buses to bothe SJPDP and Somport. It's a cute town, though.
So the Via Turonensis and the Via Lemovicensis end at Ostabat?It is considered as a part of Via Podiensis.
Because the nomenclature/the route names, are a modern creation.Out of curiosity, what/ where was the Via Tolosana? (mentioned above). And is there speculation about why the Codex did not reference whatever route Alfonso II originally took?
Merci beaucoup.Via Tolosana is now known as "Voie d'Arles" (it passes by Toulouse).
The Codex does not care very much about itineraries: it mentions the 4 via in France in order to promote the sanctuaries which can be visited along, and the relics which can provide benefits to the pilgrims.
Furthermore, it most probably has been written by a French author: as you could know, for we French the rest of the world is not very important... ;-)
I think this is why it does not tell about the many ways in Spain.
There's nothing really "special" about it, at least not compared to other potential starting points. It's a lovely town, but there are hundreds if not thousands of other perfectly good and beautiful places to start a Camino from.Okay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
But from that perspective, the Aragonés is a variant of the Francès -- as indeed it was considered to be in the 1990s, before they started giving these special names to the various particular sections of the major Camino Ways.the answer I would have given you, and that is the CF starts in Puente la Reina where the Camino Navarro and Camino Arogonese meet.
The Chocolate Muffins!Okay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
Historically, in Saint-Palais.No, these 3 routes (Via Podiensis, Via Turonensis and Via Lemovicensis) meet in Ostabat
Actually, the route between Saint-Palais and SJPP (and SJPP > Arnéguy) is nowadays referred to as the Voie de Navarre ...From Ostabat the label used is the Via Podiensis.
I don’t recall this being the way these routes were described when I first became interested in walking the Camino around 2008. The material I was reading was, as I recall, consistent about the CF beginning at the joining of the Navarre and Arogonese routes.But from that perspective, the Aragonés is a variant of the Francès -- as indeed it was considered to be in the 1990s, before they started giving these special names to the various particular sections of the major Camino Ways.
The Catalan Way has multiple routes.
And the variant routes of the Francès are a part of the Francès.
It depends what you mean by "Historically": Ostabat is mentioned in Codex Calixtinus:Historically, in Saint-Palais.
It's a good question. I think that I've asked it once on the forum but there was no answer and I've never found an answer myself online. All these fancy names - Camino Francés, via podiensis for the popular modern hiking trail from Le Puy, even Camino de Santiago - are not mentioned in the so-called medieval Pilgrim's Guide from the 12th century, written in Latin, that is the basis for all this today.And in that sense, yes the route named the "Camino Frances" does begin in SJPdP. So the question becomes: how did each route get their name and how was their start (and end) points determined. This is more of a recent history, than a medieval history, question.
Contrary to what many people believe, this medieval document, frequently called "Pilgrim's Guide" these days, had never been widely known. There is some dispute among specialised scholars what its purpose was. It contains knowledge that, from all they can tell, remained in the exclusivity of monasteries. It is likely that it was aimed for members of the aristocracy and leading church figures. It deals with how to travel from a large part of today's France to Santiago de Compostela.so-called medieval Pilgrim's Guide from the 12th century, written in Latin, that is the basis for all this today
Not to mention the Paulo, Shirley, and Martin Sheen universes. All of these folks popularized and solidified the idea that SJPP is the place to start what we now call the Camino Frances.And all this is pretty unknown in the "Brierley universe"
Here is a nice list (in French) of the chronology of how it all started from 1863 until 1990:
Translation from the chronology mentioned earlier:All of these folks popularized and solidified the idea that SJPP is the place to start what we now call the Camino Frances.
When the Pilgrim Guide was written around 1140-1160, nobody had much interest in Alfonso II who had lived 300 years earlier - that he was the first pilgrim who went to the tomb of Saint James and that the Camino Primitivo is the first Camino is a bit of a gimmick that is used today to promote this Camino and its towns, and just blurb in guidebooks and articles about Camino walking in Spain in general.And is there speculation about why the Codex did not reference whatever route Alfonso II originally took?
15 years after my first Camino, and the period I was referring to ...I don’t recall this being the way these routes were described when I first became interested in walking the Camino around 2008. The material I was reading was, as I recall, consistent about the CF beginning at the joining of the Navarre and Arogonese routes.
Or he could have followed the advice so often given and just started from his own front door. Just over 160km and mostly downhill...I guess he didn't really think it through.
Doesn't make sense geographically.It depends what you mean by "Historically": Ostabat is mentioned in Codex Calixtinus:
"The way passing by Sainte-Foy (1), the one which crosses Sant-Léonard (2), and the other which passes by Saint-Martin (3) join in Ostabat".
1: Abbey Sainte-Foy is in Conques (Via Podiensis)
2: Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat, near Limoges (Via Lemovicencis)
3: Saint-Martin de Tours (Via Turonensis)
Before that it is in France, so calling it the Camino Frances (or Chemin Francais) would be a bit pointless.Okay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
Further to what has already been written and my earlier answer ("I don't know but if someone knows please tell us") I have just looked up the terms used in the 12th century guide which is the blueprint for the trail that we are walking today. Without it, I don't think that there would have been this revival. The author uses iter Sancti Iacobi (way of / to Saint James) and via Iacobitana (more or less the same, Jacob means James) and again Beati Jacobi iter (way of / to Blessed James).And in that sense, yes the route named the "Camino Frances" does begin in SJPdP. So the question becomes: how did each route get their name and how was their start (and end) points determined. This is more of a recent history, than a medieval history, question.
At that time literacy was quite rare amongst the poor and even amongst many of the rich who hired people to do the reading and writing for them. Apart from clergy and members of religious orders of course. If you could read it for yourself in Latin then the chances were pretty good that you could also afford a horse!The readers of this medieval pilgrim's guide are not supposed to walk on foot, at various times the author refers to "of course by horse" and "on horseback" and provides information about where to water horses and where it is not advised.
It's very incomplete -- for 1965, it does not mention Franco's active purpose to make the Camino into a car drive by stages, nor the beautiful reaction against that plan by the Spanish, French, and English Compostelan Associations to make that Holy Year Camino mainly by foot, bike, and horseback instead.Here is a nice list (in French) of the chronology of how it all started from 1863 until 1990 and what was published when - btw, as you can see from the introduction, it wasn't triggered by the movie "The Way".
ce qui a déclenché la croissance du nombre de pèlerins vers Compostelle
la croissance du nombre de pèlerin.e.s sur les chemins vers Compostelle au cours du XXe siècle a débuté en 1979 et est probablement causé par la publication du livre "Priez pour nous à Compostelle"verscompostelle.be
GR65, Via Podiensis. Just came through there a couple of weeks ago. There’s a gorgeous tiny chateau, Chateau d’Aphat, just outside Vieux St Jean, not far from SJPDP. I kept daydreaming about opening as a gite.If the Camino Frances starts in SJPDP, what's the name of the route you are on between Ostabat and SJPDP?
I love walking across countries, there’s something about starting on one side and finishing on the other. But I can’t take off long stretches either, it took 3 trips to finish the GR 65 and technically, I still have to walk from Geneva to Le Puy. Then I wouldn’t want to stop because Le Puy to Figeac is gorgeous and I loved the Célé variant. If you have a couple of weeks, England’s Coast to Coast is a lot of fun, Switzerland on the VF, Via Podiensis broken into thirds, many others. Have fun planning!Not sure if there is a right answer, but I do know that I don't know which of the historical answers are most correct. So I won't even try to go there and answer in a historical context.
But - for me - this is why "I" started in SJPDP. 1) It is where most books and apps list as the starting point of the Camino Frances. But of course you can start before/after. 2) I wanted the challenge and to see the beauty of crossing the Pyrenees. 3) While I wouldn't call it "easy" to get to, it wasn't "hard" to get to either. And I knew many pilgrims make their way to SJPDP from Paris and Madrid without too much hassle. And 4) I loved the idea of walking COMPLETELY across the country. I started in SJPDP and ended in Muxia and Finisterre. Therefore I have walked all the way across the country of Spain. I would love to do that in my own country too - but I live in the US and it would require me to retire first (or quit my job which isn't going to happen) and there definitely isn't the wonderful infrastructure that they have in Spain along the Camino Frances and other popular routes. I do want to complete the cross country hiking routes someday - but making it happen is going to be challenging.
In that case, why wouldn't it start in Roncesvalles? Before that it is in France.Before that it is in France, so calling it the Camino Frances (or Chemin Francais) would be a bit pointless.
Almost. Just a small correction.Therefore I have walked all the way across the country of Spain.
One could also walk across the country with the Camino Mozarabe, south to north. But instead of walking on to Finisterre/Muxia to complete the trek one would walk the Camino Ingles in reverse.Almost. Just a small correction.
Across the country would be starting in Llança on the Cami Catalan, or from any place on the East coast of Spain (on the Caminos like the Ebro, Lana, Levante, Sureste). A bit of a longer undertaking than the Francés from SJPP: about 1400km for the Cami Catalan - Aragones - Francés from Puente la Reina.
You can walk any number of planes across Spain - and still have walked across Spain. Although - I did mean to type "Northern" Spain - don't know why I didn't lol. Either way - I walked from SJPDP to the Ocean on the Western coast of Spain - so yes - I walked across Spain. I didn't walk the widest segment - is true.Almost. Just a small correction.
Across the country would be starting in Llança on the Cami Catalan, or from any place on the East coast of Spain (on the Caminos like the Ebro, Lana, Levante, Sureste). A bit of a longer undertaking than the Francés from SJPP: about 1400km for the Cami Catalan - Aragones - Francés from Puente la Reina.
I have walked all the way from Malaga on the Mediterranean to San Andres de Teixido on the Atlantic coast about 10km from the NW corner of Spain. On the Mozarabe and the VdlP and the Ingles plus a little bit that is not officially recognised. Not all in the one trip and not all in the right directionOne could also walk across the country with the Camino Mozarabe, south to north. But instead of walking on to Finisterre/Muxia to complete the trek one would walk the Camino Ingles in reverse.
Really? I don't think this is a useful objection. If one chooses to walk the entire width of a country, it seems to me it could be anywhere one reaches the opposite side to where one started to qualify. Going from the eastern border near Roncesvalles to Muxia or Fisterra would work for me.Almost. Just a small correction.
Across the country would be starting in Llança on the Cami Catalan, or from any place on the East coast of Spain (on the Caminos like the Ebro, Lana, Levante, Sureste). A bit of a longer undertaking than the Francés from SJPP: about 1400km for the Cami Catalan - Aragones - Francés from Puente la Reina.
If one chooses to walk the entire width of a country, it seems to me it could be anywhere one reaches the opposite side to where one started to qualify.
Indeed. Did you walk across Sweden as well on the S:t Olavsleden?I walked across Norway from the Swedish border to the Atlantic coast in one day. It was just too cold to stop and nowhere warm was open to rest in. Luckily Norway is a very narrow country at that point!
Yes. But that took more than one day. I walked from Sundsvall in May. Still pretty chilly with a few frozen lakes. I camped about 200m from the border stone near Skalstugan. The next day I walked to Verdal because everywhere was closed along the way (a national strike in the hospitality industry apparently). The following day was the Norwegian national day.Indeed. Did you walk across Sweden as well on the S:t Olavsleden?
Absolutely. Or to be 100% accurate, at the point where the pilgrimage route to Santiago crosses the border from France into Spain, which leads us to another rabbit hole - Route Napoleon or Valcarlos? For me, this is an endlessly fascinating topic for discussion with no really definitive answer - you pays your money and you takes your choice. Fun talking about it though.In that case, why wouldn't it start in Roncesvalles? Before that it is in France.
Don't confuse the pilgrimage with the camino (now there's a mantra for you). A camino is a route for pilgrims to follow. There being a large and increasing number of routes (or 'caminos' in Spanish) to Santiago, it is convenient to give them all names. But your pilgrimage begins where you say it does, and if you say it begins in SJPdP, that 's good enough for you. And if you choose to call it the Camino Frances, that's fine too.Interesting. The idea that this holy pilgrimage begins in a place where a bloke with a yellow arrow and a mallet said “this’ll do” has great appeal to me!
Saint Jean Pied de Port is not named after the apostle John who was the brother of Saint James.From one saint to another, one brother to another, both called “sons of thunder.”
I did the Camino in 2001, and there was no great fuss over it back then. Hardly anyone started from there. I’m convinced that it’s driven by that Martin Sheen movie. In 2001, the guidebooks presented two route options for those who wanted to start at the Pyrenees: the Roncesvalles pass or the Somport one, which was more traveled until the 12th c. Now there are guidebooks that don’t even mention the Somport option, and everyone refers to a “French route” as if Somport doesn’t exist.Okay, so my title is intentionally a little provocative but the question is a serious one.
Why does the Camino Frances begin in SJPP?
I walked from SJPDP in 1990 and 2002. By 1990 SJPDP was already the default starting point for most British pilgrims and many others too. The Spanish generally started from Roncesvalles. The Somport route was known but little mentioned. The pilgrim office detailed statistics go back to 2003. Well before Mr Sheen's movie. In 2003 they recorded 15,376 people who started from SJPDP and Roncesvalles. And only 869 who started from Somport. The numbers from SJPDP and Roncesvalles combined were about 50% larger than those beginning at Sarria in that year - the Camino was still seen mostly as a long-distance pilgrimage. I have to disagree with the idea that "Hardly anyone" started from SJPDP.I did the Camino in 2001, and there was no great fuss over it back then. Hardly anyone started from there.
I'll put my oar in here and say not all that much detail, as far as the route goes. Anyway, it starts in Antigny in the Vienne. Must do, that's where I live. Or possibly Paizay le sec, where I used to live. Or Canterbury, because why not? Or Parthenay.Translation from the chronology mentioned earlier:
From 1990 onwards ... continuous increase of the coverage of the pilgrimage to Santiago: the fast creation of new pilgrims' associations (from 26 at the end of the 1980s to several hundred today) who promote the pilgrimage to Santiago, the multiplication of pilgrimage reports, books about the pilgrimage, TV programmes and documentaries, films in French and English which reach an increasingly larger audience and finally marketing, merchandising and the development of a "Santiago" brandname (organisation of walks, treks, races, etc.) and the entry into the market of more and more tour operators, thereby creating a buzz and a kind of trendy quality of walking the Camino to Santiago.But at the base of all this is this 12th century document that describes in great detail a pilgrimage path from France that goes through the Western foothills of the Pyrenees (and for completeness sake: on French territory, either through the town/village of Borce or through the town/village of Saint-Michel).
Not at all what I found walking through in 1994 -- most pilgrims in SJPP that time had walked from further away, the great majority from the Le Puy route, though some had come from northern Europe via the Vézelay Way. I was the only one from the Paris/Tours Way.By 1990 SJPDP was already the default starting point for most British pilgrims and many others too.
Far more people started in 1994 at Roncesvalles than SJPP. Yes the vast majority of those starting there were Spanish, including those busing in for a morning arrival, breakfast, then head out immediately. But in 1994 anyway, people of multiple nationalities started at Roncesvalles, and more than those starting at SJPP. Including Brits.The Spanish generally started from Roncesvalles.
By 1994 it was more well known and travelled -- it's possible that the Somport route had been revitalised by the 1993 Holy Year. (I wasn't much aware of these things on my own 1993.) It had definitely become a lot more popular by the mid 2000s !!The Somport route was known but little mentioned.
Certainly when I walked through SJPP on my 2005, the number of pilgrims starting there had massively increased compared to the early 90s, by that time dwarfing the number of people starting at Roncesvalles.The pilgrim office detailed statistics go back to 2003. Well before Mr Sheen's movie. In 2003 they recorded 15,376 people who started from SJPDP and Roncesvalles.
It's not true for the early 2000s ; but it is true for the early 1990s and earlier, relative to the numbers starting at Le Puy and Roncesvalles or elsewhere. It was definitely a minority starting point until the late 90s or early 2000s.And only 869 who started from Somport. The numbers from SJPDP and Roncesvalles combined were about 50% larger than those beginning at Sarria in that year - the Camino was still seen mostly as a long-distance pilgrimage. I have to disagree with the idea that "Hardly anyone" started from SJPDP.
Therefore, I am surprised by this last precisions: more than half of the Compostela issued are for pilgrims who started from Sarria. Therefore it seems that the overcrowding is mainly due to this starting point...The final few 100K to Santiago did get progressively more crowded, but this was not principally from people starting there (though some did), but mainly due to the influx from other Camino Ways joining the Francès at various points.
I don't understand. Maybe we are talking about different paths?I'll put my oar in here and say not all that much detail, as far as the route goes. Anyway, it starts in Antigny in the Vienne. Must do, that's where I live. Or possibly Paizay le sec, where I used to live. Or Canterbury, because why not? Or Parthenay.
Yes to this. For many who come from outside Europe they need to fly into an international airport and then transit onward from there.You can be off an international flight in Biarritz and arrive in SJPDP in a couple of hours by public transport for about 12 euro if your timing is right. And less time but slightly more money if you book with Express Bourricot. Much harder to do that with Somport.
Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir spent their summer holidays there in August 1964. There is an entertaining description by a forum member in this thread Orisson Refugio - A Philosophical/Literary Footnote. Especially Simone de Beauvoir enjoyed hiking i.e. mountain/hill walking and spending time in nature.I am guessing St Jean was geared up for hikers before many of the recent influx of pilgrims started arriving ?
Since I discovered an interactive map of the French railways today ...Ease of travel to a starting point is key
International flights to regional airports like Biarritz were pretty scarce in 1990 and very expensive. At that time travel by train from the UK to Biarritz and to return from Santiago was a much cheaper option than flying.. Taxis and local buses were not as frequently available and used as nowadays, and neither were cheap flights as widely available as today.
Yes -- but that was most definitely not the case in the early 1990s nor even in the early 2000s.Thank you for your interesting points, based upon your rich experience.
Therefore, I am surprised by this last precisions: more than half of the Compostela issued are for pilgrims who started from Sarria. Therefore it seems that the overcrowding is mainly due to this starting point...
A slight misreading of the document.Some statistics from Roncesvalles in 1987. In that year the Colegiata recorded 1418 pilgrims. The total number of Compostelas issued that year was 2905. Which seems to suggest that almost half of all the pilgrims recorded in Santiago that year passed through Roncesvalles.
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You may be right about that, it's actually a pretty good theory.Ease of access in the 1980s to 2000s, to name just two years to fix a meaningful timeframe, contributed to cement the prime position of SJPP.
Well yes --- but the replacement bus service runs several buses a day up to the Somport. And when I walked up there in 2014, I could see that pilgrims did make good use of it.Oloron-Sainte-Maire would have been the starting point for railway passengers and that is a lot further away from the relevant mountain pass than SJPP is away from their mountain passes. As so often - it's technology and the economy, dude.
BTW, the line from Bedous to Canfranc is still out of use to this day.
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