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I'm on the rain pants side, too! I have a fairly expensive pair that don't really look (or sound) like rain pants, so I don't use them as a sit pad, except if necessary in the rain. They have been worn many a time while I'm doing laundry! My gear includes 3 pairs of pants: walking pants, merino sweat pants for evening and night, and rain pants.I'm one of the few that always carry rain pants. There have only been a couple of summer hiking trips where I absolutely needed them, though. On cold days, I like hiking in running tights and rain pants.
On my wish list right now are the pricey ($99) Patagonia Houdini rain/wind pants, at 4.9 ounces/pair. They seem like a good compromise for trips that will likely be fine without them but may be "nice to have" (not for hiking in perpetual rain!).
Rain pants are also useful for doing laundry when everything else needs to be washed, using as a sit pad, covering a questionable mattress under the sleeping bag and even for a shade shelter when laid horizontally across hiking poles. Anyone else have other creative uses?
Hi guys!
Would you consider a pair of rainpants necessary on the camino in late May / early June, or would a raincoat be enough?
In my experience, waterproof-breathable fabrics are neither waterproof nor breathable, especially during extended use and/or if the garment is not brand new.
I'm not saying my rain jacket and pants are perfection. However, neither are rain poncho and kilt. They all have pros and cons that are apparent without going into too much technical detail. The jacket and pants work very well for my activities!The article below is from backpacking expert Andrew Skurka, and it echos the exact problem that I have found in the many times I have tried various iterations of "breathable" rain gear.
My experience is totally the opposite. Totally waterproof, totally breathable. Maybe I imagined it
But my wife wears the exact same gear. Same result, Dry and no condensation on the inside.
Go figure.......![]()
I'm not saying my rain jacket and pants are perfection. However, neither are rain poncho and kilt. They all have pros and cons that are apparent without going into too much technical detail. The jacket and pants work very well for my activities!
No, I doubt that you imagined it, more like the amount of exertion while wearing your WP/B gear is far lower than me and many backpackers hiking far steeper grades for longer periods going at a faster pace while carrying far heavier loads.
So WP/B gear should work well for most Pilgrims walking a Camino then?![]()
Used our rain jackets but our rain pants made us just as wet from perspiration as would have the rain. Unless it is cold, I would shed the rain pants and rely on quick dry pants. The rain jacket keeps your core dry and warm. Our rain jackets were vented to allow cooling. This year...no rain pantsHi guys!
Would you consider a pair of rainpants necessary on the camino in late May / early June, or would a raincoat be enough?
The OP asked about May/June. Rainpants and jacket are excellent at keeping out the cold and wind, unlike a poncho. But in late May/June this should not be too much of an issue.
And Rain Kilts! Who knew? You learn something new every day.
I always bring my technical but lightweight and breathable rain jacket and homemade rain skirt. The rainskirt is more airy than the clammy sweaty rain pants![]()
Homemade rainskirt ? What a brilliant idea! I refuse to wear a poncho because it flaps and sweats and lets my face get wet and generally is (to me) loathsome - I know people have very different and strongly held opinions about ponchos - but I have always carried rainpants and used them sometimes. But now, I am going to make myself one of your rainskirts and try it out. (I wonder if my husband would like to try it too - perhaps I could call it a rainkilt)
Homemade rainskirt ? What a brilliant idea! I refuse to wear a poncho because it flaps and sweats and lets my face get wet and generally is (to me) loathsome - I know people have very different and strongly held opinions about ponchos - but I have always carried rainpants and used them sometimes. But now, I am going to make myself one of your rainskirts and try it out. (I wonder if my husband would like to try it too - perhaps I could call it a rainkilt)
It's very easy to make if you use a good quality poncho. I just cut the bottom part of an Altus poncho and sewed in a waistband then threaded elastic through it. Top tip is make it long enough. You can "hoik" it up if you want it shorter![]()
Haha I know what you mean The side seams are already in place on the poncho so it's an easy thing to make.Great tip, I'll get out the sewing machine - and it will add the final touch to my already very elegant look when on a camino![]()
My belief is that this is far less about the performance of the jacket/pant/hat than it is about the overwhelming need of a for-profit company to make a profit! If they didn't offer the best new technology, colour, zipper pulls, etc suckers like me would still have room in their closets and money in their accounts!But it is enough of a problem that gear manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet.
The article below is from backpacking expert Andrew Skurka, and it echos the exact problem that I have found in the many times I have tried various iterations of "breathable" rain gear.
Waterproof-breathable rain gear
A rain jacket and pant's form-fitting silhouettes create a problem: near complete loss of airflow.
If they were to be made of the same waterproof fabric used in umbrella canopies, ponchos, tarps, and tent flies — e.g. polyurethane-coated nylon, silicone-impregnated nylon, or cuben fiber — the wearer would have an effective protection against external precipitation, but they would bathe in their perspiration that becomes trapped in the garment during aerobic activity. (For low-aerobic activity, however, fully waterproof rain gear is great. Next time you watch a baseball game or go fishing in the rain, bring along something like the Helly Hensen Lerwick Rain Jacket.)
The outdoor industry’s solution to this body bag scenario have been waterproof-breathable fabrics (WP/B), e.g. Gore-Tex, eVent, NeoShell, plus proprietary fabrics like Marmot’s Precip and Patagonia’s H2No. That “waterproof-breathable” is an oxymoron is perhaps the first clue that this fabric technology might be overhyped. Think: A “waterproof” fabric does not allow moisture through it, yet a “breathable” fabric does — So how can a material be both?
Why waterproof-breathable fabrics fail
In my experience, waterproof-breathable fabrics are neither waterproof nor breathable, especially during extended use and/or if the garment is not brand new. While there are measurable performance differences between the degrees of water-resistance and breathability of different fabrics, the ultimate outcome is the same: I will get wet from the outside, the inside, or both. It’s really just a question of timing and method.
Outside. The Achilles heel of WP/B fabrics is the durable water repellent (DWR) treatment applied to the face fabric. This long-chain (C8) fluorocarbon-based treatment easily degrades due to abrasion and contaminants (e.g. dirt, body oils, sunscreen), which causes the face fabric to become saturated with moisture. Since it is more humid outside the jacket than inside it, moisture is “pulled” through the jacket by the drier air inside. With new restrictions C8 soon taking effect, the lackluster performance of DWR will decline further.
The DWR finish can be restored with wash-in and spray-on treatments like Nikwax TX Direct Wash In. They definitely help, but I have found that the DWR is never as-good-as-new again. And without a functional DWR, wet-out is inevitable.
Inside. Technically, waterproof/breathable fabrics are breathable — i.e. moisture can transmit through the fabric, via solid state diffusion or direct venting. But so too is a jacket made of trash bag material with a few pinholes in it. Regardless of marketing claims to the contrary, the breathability of WP/B fabrics is utterly inadequate relative to a normal rate of perspiration when hiking, especially in warm and/or humid conditions. So even if you managed to stay dry on the outside while wearing WP/B clothing (like if it’s a sunny day) you will get wet from the inside due to trapped perspiration.
My belief is that this is far less about the performance of the jacket/pant/hat than it is about the overwhelming need of a for-profit company to make a profit! If they didn't offer the best new technology, colour, zipper pulls, etc suckers like me would still have room in their closets and money in their accounts!
I agree with numerous people above, rain pants and jacket are the way I roll. I also roll slow and steady (I heard somewhere that the Camino isn't a race) and find myself pretty warm and dry at the of of cold, wet days!
I know it's a personal thing but I just can't wear ponchos - they flap too much for me.
I don't disagree that a 1st gen waterproof apple is not as good as today's waterproof apple but you seem to now be comparing apples to oranges. The point I was making is that last years waterproof apple is not going to be significantly better than this years waterproof apple, only different optics and buzz words, supporting my idea that there are not new magic bullets every year, just profits.Colors and zipper pulls may very well apply to your observation. But there is a HUUUUGGGGGE difference between first generation waterproof/breathable (WP/B) fabrics, and those of today. It is more about innovation than it is about marketing-hype.
The newest generations of fabrics like eVent, or the new DWR products applied to the outer shell of WP/B gear -- which are as important as the actual membrane layer itself -- have advanced breathability by leaps and bounds over that first generation of product. Beyond that, there is also the newest iteration of rain shell garments which takes a brand new type of membrane, which is polyurethane-based, and then moving that membrane to the outside layer of the jacket, instead of sandwiched in-between the outer and inner layers of the shell.
If one were to find an unused first generation Goretex rain shell, and, under the exact same rain and physical exertion scenario, then wear the newest generation of WP/B rainshell, s/he would find that it takes longer for sweat to begin to accumulate under the garment, that the outer shell takes a lot longer to "wet-out", and that the shell is far less cold and clammy against the skin.
It is absolutely true that the Camino is not a race. But a lot of folks walk a naturally faster pace and sweat more than others while enjoying their Camino.For those who walk a pace below the threshold of sweating, rainshells are adequate. But, because airflow is far more important at keeping sweat from soaking you than is the still limited breathability of even the newest rainshells, a large percentage of hikers and backpackers find a poncho the best choice for staying both warm and dry.
I don't disagree that a 1st gen waterproof apple is not as good as today's waterproof apple but you seem to now be comparing apples to oranges. The point I was making is that last years waterproof apple is not going to be significantly better than this years waterproof apple, only different optics and buzz words, supporting my idea that there are not new magic bullets every year, just profits.
Your point that there is no significant advances in waterproof/breathable fabrics from one year to the next. To some extent you are correct. MY point was that there have been significant leaps in WP/B rain gear since its inception, with the most significant of those advancements and applications having occurred over the last three years. No buzz words or marketing hype, but real, measurable advancements.
Even since the 1970's, when Gortex was first introduced, advancements in the shell fabrics DWR coatings, better wp/b fabrics, bonding and lamination of layers in the shells, as well as creating shells that are better adapted to specific needs, have occurred on a regular basis.
The facts simply do not support your conclusions.
All I know from bitter experience is that gortex is the only material that works for me. If you buy your gear on special during the sales it's almost affordable!
The original Gortex has not been used in a long time. Gortex is a trade name, but the WP/B technology in the manufacture of membranes bearing that trade name have been improved many times. If your Gortex rain gear was purchased over the last five years, it is basically the same type of WP/B membrane that is trade named eVent. In other words, given the same rainshell, whether the wp/b membrane is eVent or Gortex, it performs the same exact way because it is the same material under differing trade names.
Well that not my experience, sorry. 18 months ago I bought an eVent jacket and the rain soaked through it. I have gortex rain pants that work well and DH has gortex that works. I went back to the same store and got a new gortex jacket that works perfectly. The shop took my eVent jacket back for testing and gave me a refund as it has a guarantee even though I didn't push for it as it was 18 months old and I'd tried unsuccessfully to recoat it.
All this stuff is just my experience, Dave, I'm sure you are technically and scientifically correct but I'm just not prepared to risk it again.
But it is enough of a problem that gear manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet. Each year brings new "improvements" in fabrics that claim to be be even better at breath-ability. It is a problem that keeps thousands o
I never stated that new "magic bullets" are made every year. What I have stated is that, especially over the last 5 years, significant advances to wp/b rain gear have been made, many over each of the last three years.
So reviewing your comments:
In all the reading I have managed to lose track of your stance so I'm going to say you are absolutely right and you win! Now if it pleases the court, I'm going to don my surely pourous 7-year old Gortex jacket and go for a walk in the rain and think about something non-waterproof related!![]()
What gear are you wearing?My experience is totally the opposite. Totally waterproof, totally breathable. Maybe I imagined it
But my wife wears the exact same gear. Same result, Dry and no condensation on the inside.
Go figure.......![]()
What gear are you wearing?
I always bring my technical but lightweight and breathable rain jacket and homemade rain skirt. The rainskirt is more airy than the clammy sweaty rain pants![]()
Please tell me if you know where I can buy this rainskirt you mentioned? Unless it is handmade by YOU. Any alternatives? I really dont want to wear trousers- or if I do- a tunic/skirt over it.
Do you furthermore think Black is not a good idea in the month of June? Too Hot?
Please tell me if you know where I can buy this rainskirt you mentioned? Unless it is handmade by YOU. Any alternatives? I really dont want to wear trousers- or if I do- a tunic/skirt over it.
Do you furthermore think Black is not a good idea in the month of June? Too Hot?