Jeff Zimmerman
Cincigator
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances-April 2016
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
sweet....gotta love thatKinda seems like the opposite in Spain... you just order a drink and they keep bringing you free food.
One club in Santiago brought 2 of us 6 plates of tapas just for buying Gin and Tonics.
Like the bit about bar etiquette, horrified by standard 15% tips! I noticed in the US, everyone at least left the change even for a sandwich at a lunch counter. Is that done at fast food places?Minimal wage for service workers in Canada is almost 5 times of that in the US and yet we tip 15%. Tipping is not reserved for countries that pay 2$/hours. And remember, in a bar is Spain you are expected to get your stuff at the counter, and return your dirty dishes to the counter. If you plan of having people pick up after you, therés an added reason to round up your bill.
The custom is to not tip. Pilgrims can ruin this!! Europeans know not to tip, so you won't see them doing it.
The cathedral has not announced any additional botofumeiro swingings. Last year they were paid to swing it every Friday at the evening mass (1830). If the xunta funds it this year, it will swing.
Believe it or not, tipping can be a insult in Europe. If service was good feel free to leave the loose change. If it was superior leave a Euro to 2. Buen CaminoFirst, thanks to all on this forum. I leave in 22 days (but who's counting) to start my Camino Frances. Reading this forum has been my daily ritual and invaluable in training for and planning my Camino. I hope to meet some of you out there.
First question. What are the tipping customs in Spain in general and the Camino Frances in particular? In the US we tip 15-20%, but is that the case in Spain? How about at bars/restaurants at the Pilgrim Meals? At albergues? I don't want to offend anyone.
Second question. I read recently that since this is a Holy Year, the botafumeiro will be "flying" every day at the noon Pilgrim Mass at the cathedral in Santiago. Can anyone confirm this? I'm arriving in Santiago on May 25th and planning on staying only an extra day. Witnessing this tradition would be a special reward at the end of my Camino.
Bull... Leaving pennies is an insult, not rounding off. As cheap as we like to be on "our" Caminos, there are things that are dine and not done. Google "propinas Spain" "tipping Spain", and you will be tols over and over agIn that while tipping is not mandatory it is welcomed and shows an appreciation for good service.Believe it or not, tipping can be a insult in Europe. If service was good feel free to leave the loose change. If it was superior leave a Euro to 2. Buen Camino
I beg to differ. Tipping in restaurants in France, Italy, and other European countries is seen as a insult. Waiter is a profession in Europe not a way to pay for collage or make ends meet. Wages are factored into the prices. That's not to say the a bars or cafes on the camino pay good. I know better and I leave the change sometimes adding to it but tipping is not mandatory.Bull... Leaving pennies is an insult, not rounding off. As cheap as we like to be on "our" Caminos, there are things that are dine and not done. Google "propinas Spain" "tipping Spain", and you will be tols over and over agIn that while tipping is not mandatory it is welcomed and shows an appreciation for good service.
Interestingly enough, Google tells me that on PT people don't want to be seenas wanting or taking the $ but are still happy to receive it.
Let's not pretend people love to serve us tourists for free while they struggle to make ends meet.
InFrance it's added automatically on the bill! And waitering is a profession in the US, Canada, and many other countries whre people pay a lot of money to train to work in the service industry. If you beg to differ with my post refering to Google searches I suggest you Google before differing. Let's put it this way, in Spain a waiter on aberage earns just under 1 200 € per month! In Switzerland 3 000€. 1200 divided by 30 days is 40€. Before income tax. And that is a national average, not is the tiny villages we walk though.I beg to differ. Tipping in restaurants in France, Italy, and other European countries is seen as a insult. Waiter is a profession in Europe not a way to pay for collage or make ends meet. Wages are factored into the prices. That's not to say the a bars or cafes on the camino pay good. I know better and I leave the change sometimes adding to it but tipping is not mandatory.
It's not true that wait staff in all states earn a fraction of minimum wage. I've only lived in Oregon and California, but both of those states require wait staff be paid minimum wage. I know that more states do the same. However, you can't necessarily call minimum wage a living wage, and waiters, bartenders and the like don't always work 40 hour weeks, so tips are much needed.In the US the wages for a server is 2.13 $ hour vs the regular feral minimal wage of 7.25$. Poverty guideline for 1 persi is 11 770 $. To reach that poverty guideline a person would have to work more than 100 hours a week. Try to,live on 11770$ a year ...
In Canada the minimal wage for a server is around 9$, vs 10.50$ for non service industry jobs depending on the province. This is where the 15% comes in.
Now, we can discuss the fact that a lot of tips are earned without being declared, but please, when travelling to the US be aware of what the wages are and how important your tips are. Many Canadians do not realise this and often do not leave much as a tip,when in the US not realising this.
Now, back to Spain. If you google tipping in Spain the websites that pop up will tell you that rounding up is good manners,and that in upscale restaurants 10% is expected.
@trecile , you have in fact lived in 2 of the rare states where the service minimal wage is not dismal, take a look at what these wages are in the rest of the country. I wans't about to start listing salaries in each of the States .It's not true that wait staff in all states earn a fraction of minimum wage. I've only lived in Oregon and California, but both of those states require wait staff be paid minimum wage. I know that more states do the same. However, you can't necessarily call minimum wage a living wage, and waiters, bartenders and the like don't always work 40 hour weeks, so tips are much needed.
Most fast food restaurant, ie., McDonald's, etc., don't allow tips for their employees.
What really rankles me is seeing a tip jar at a serve yourself yogurt place.
I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Checking the Labour Program (CA) and Dept of Labor (US) sites and using XE(dot)COM for exchange rates, the minimum hourly rate in Canada would need to be about CAD14.1o. None are that high! For employees who usually receive gratuities in Quebec, it is only CAD9.05, just over three times that of their US counterparts. The current highest minimum wage appears to be CAD12.50 in the Northwest Territories, still well short of the five times you have suggested. While the differences between this class of worker and other workers might not be as great in Canada as in the USA, clearly there is a practice in some provinces of setting a different minimum wage for service staff. Perhaps there is exactly the same motivation, albeit different in degree, to tip in Canada as in the US.Minimal wage for service workers in Canada is almost 5 times of that in the US
Pity, because I found 13 States where the minimum wage for tipped employees is greater than the minimum wage paid for similar workers in Quebec (based on today's exchange rate, but the differences were enough that small exchange rate variations are unlike to alter that number too much!). Same sources as my previous post.
@trecile , you have in fact lived in 2 of the rare states where the service minimal wage is not dismal, take a look at what these wages are in the rest of the country. I wans't about to start listing salaries in each of the States .
Tipping in Canada is a bit of a can of worms: you still pay the full price listed on the menu even if the meal is ordinary or poor. Some take it out on the waiting staff by not tipping if the meal is poor. We are told the restaurants would not be able to make ends meet if the employers had to pay full salaries. But waiting staff only declare up to a certain percentage of what the restaurant/bar makes, keeping anything above that not paying income tax, which, depending on the business they work for can be quite lucrative. I frankly would prefer to have the service staff be paid a regular wage by the employer and having the cost rolled in the bill: fair to all, amd everyone pays their taxes.Being from Australia we are not used to tipping. Everybody is paid a decent wage here. I do find it hard to remember to tip in a country where tipping is the norm. We have never been expected to tip on a Camino but we do tip if the service is exceptional. I find it very difficult to tip in the USA and Canada when the service is bad but they still expect a tip as their due.
As someone who lives in Europe I can tell you that tipping is not considered an insult in France, Spain, Portugal, UK or Ireland. It is very much appreciated, what is not appreciated I'm sure is leaving pennies. I usualy find that those who tell you not to tip do not really want to themselves.
Be generous and leave a tip.
I beg to differ. Tipping in restaurants in France, Italy, and other European countries is seen as a insult. Waiter is a profession in Europe not a way to pay for collage or make ends meet. Wages are factored into the prices. That's not to say the a bars or cafes on the camino pay good. I know better and I leave the change sometimes adding to it but tipping is not mandatory.
I realize that. I just wanted to point out that not every state in the US is so backward. It also points out that the idea that paying the regular minimum wage to tipped employees would be a financial hardship to restaurants to be false.
@trecile , you have in fact lived in 2 of the rare states where the service minimal wage is not dismal, take a look at what these wages are in the rest of the country. I wans't about to start listing salaries in each of the States .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States
What?... lets get back to the latter part of Jeff's question regarding the Botafumerio...will it not fly?...My wife and I are so looking forward to seeing it fly in Sept. Finger crossed!!I don't remember tipping much for my morning coffee and such, but later on if I go in a bar and have a beer I always tip. Don't know if this is the norm or not, and don't care. I always tip when I get a cold one at a bar.
cheers
If you tip the Church 300€ it will fly!What?... lets get back to the latter part of Jeff's question regarding the Botafumerio...will it not fly?...My wife and I are so looking forward to seeing it fly in Sept. Finger crossed!!
I don't know what the schedule is for when the Botafumeiro flies, but all three times I was in Santiago there was a mass when it swung.What?... lets get back to the latter part of Jeff's question regarding the Botafumerio...will it not fly?...My wife and I are so looking forward to seeing it fly in Sept. Finger crossed!!
To tip or not to tip? Simple answer...if you want to tip, by all means tip. If you don't want to tip, don't tip. Better yet go to the owner or manager and ask. No need for forum pissing contest, this is not "How to launch a hotdog into outer space" that technicalities and math calculations are needed. No one is going to get in anyone's face and force them to tip, but that would be a nice YouTube moment?First, thanks to all on this forum. I leave in 22 days (but who's counting) to start my Camino Frances. Reading this forum has been my daily ritual and invaluable in training for and planning my Camino. I hope to meet some of you out there.
First question. What are the tipping customs in Spain in general and the Camino Frances in particular? In the US we tip 15-20%, but is that the case in Spain? How about at bars/restaurants at the Pilgrim Meals? At albergues? I don't want to offend anyone.
Second question. I read recently that since this is a Holy Year, the botafumeiro will be "flying" every day at the noon Pilgrim Mass at the cathedral in Santiago. Can anyone confirm this? I'm arriving in Santiago on May 25th and planning on staying only an extra day. Witnessing this tradition would be a special reward at the end of my Camino.
The "i". Spanish is wonderfully regular with stress. The rules are:...
Buen Camino (is the stress on the "a" or "i"?)
Copied from the Cathedralwebsite:What?... lets get back to the latter part of Jeff's question regarding the Botafumerio...will it not fly?...My wife and I are so looking forward to seeing it fly in Sept. Finger crossed!!
Thanks, this is a super link as it gives concrete examples of what locals would do in various situations! I'm going to bookmark this.Tipping is not common in Spain and the popular website which says "Tipping is a great tradition in Spain" couldn't be more inaccurate.
http://gospain.about.com/od/spanishlife/qt/tippinginspain.htm
Now, from my experience, from 2013 the Botafumeiro was also used at the 19.30 Mass on Fridays. I don't know if it is still true this year.
I apologize to have wasted your time answering my sarcastic question about the word "Camino". I was just trying to make a point. Although I don't speak Spanish that well anymore, I spoke Castilian as a child. I can read with Castilian accents...with a lisp and still understand some. My apologies.The "i". Spanish is wonderfully regular with stress. The rules are:
1. Stress is on the penultimate syllable in words ending in a vowel*, 's' or 'n'. (Hence the 'i' in camino).
2. Otherwise stress is on the last syllable; e.g. verbs in the infinitive as they always end in 'r'
3. Any exception to the rules is denoted by " ' ", i.e. an acute accent, on the stressed vowel, e.g. rápido
* sometimes a dipthong is counted as a single vowel for the purposes of this rule. That is explained by @Castilian Spanish Cultural Faux Pas
Bet you're glad you asked
Sorry about font weirdness, on the ipad I have to compose in mail then copy and paste. Sometimes font gets scrambled.
RELEVANT comment: it used to be the case in Europe, well France and Italy, that if a bill included a service charge, you were absolved from tipping. Seems that's changed.
First, thanks to all on this forum. I leave in 22 days (but who's counting) to start my Camino Frances. Reading this forum has been my daily ritual and invaluable in training for and planning my Camino. I hope to meet some of you out there.
First question. What are the tipping customs in Spain in general and the Camino Frances in particular? In the US we tip 15-20%, but is that the case in Spain? How about at bars/restaurants at the Pilgrim Meals? At albergues? I don't want to offend anyone.
Second question. I read recently that since this is a Holy Year, the botafumeiro will be "flying" every day at the noon Pilgrim Mass at the cathedral in Santiago. Can anyone confirm this? I'm arriving in Santiago on May 25th and planning on staying only an extra day. Witnessing this tradition would be a special reward at the end of my Camino.
It varies, but I don't think I have ever gotten a check without requesting it. In most places you can go to the bar, ask for the total, and pay. Having a written bill is also intermittent, and a computer printout is becoming more common for complex bills. If you go to a bar or restaurant for the menu peregrino advertised for 8E, you won't get a bill, and you will be asked for 8E. Pay the waiter or the bar. I have NEVER paid in advance. (If you eat at a McDonalds, they may want money in advance.)In Spain, is this process similar? Do you ask to pay and then pay the waiter directly at your table? Do they write the total on a slip of paper. Do I need to order at the bar and pay for it before the meal/drinks are delivered?
On the Camino for meals at a bar, breakfast, lunch, tapas, you go to the bar, ask for what you want, and go back to your table to eat it (unless you are sitting at the counter). When you are done you bring back your dirty dishes to the counternd try not to leave a mess on the table. If they will bring you your food at the table, they will tell you to go back to your seat and that ypur food will be brought to you. But you still should clear the table.I lived in Germany as a child and later for a while as an adult. The "check" was never brought to your table until you notified the waiter and then he/she would come to your table and use a pen and paper to add up the total. They had change and bills in a large wallet and you put the money into their hand. If you wanted to tip you might round up. Example: 14.50 Euros (or DM when I was a child). I would give a 20 Euro bill and ask for 5 back. Mainly this was so I did not have a lot of loose change tearing out the seams of my pockets. I was also told that leaving money on the table was considered rude and that you should hand it to the waiter.
In Spain, is this process similar? Do you ask to pay and then pay the waiter directly at your table? Do they write the total on a slip of paper. Do I need to order at the bar and pay for it before the meal/drinks are delivered?
No need at all in regards to your level of Spanish proficiency while in Spain while walking the Camino. Any Spanish you can speak is great and helpful and don't be shy about speaking it. Unless an actual Spaniard told me something was a faux pas, I wouldn't give it any thought. Speak away.I apologize to have wasted your time answering my sarcastic question about the word "Camino". I was just trying to make a point. Although I don't speak Spanish that well anymore, I spoke Castilian as a child. I can read with Castilian accents...with a lisp and still understand some. My apologies.
I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Checking the Labour Program (CA) and Dept of Labor (US) sites and using XE(dot)COM for exchange rates, the minimum hourly rate in Canada would need to be about CAD14.1o. None are that high! For employees who usually receive gratuities in Quebec, it is only CAD9.05, just over three times that of their US counterparts. The current highest minimum wage appears to be CAD12.50 in the Northwest Territories, still well short of the five times you have suggested. While the differences between this class of worker and other workers might not be as great in Canada as in the USA, clearly there is a practice in some provinces of setting a different minimum wage for service staff. Perhaps there is exactly the same motivation, albeit different in degree, to tip in Canada as in the US.
Not true Heather, in many provinces the minimal wage for people who earn tips is less than the standard minimal wage. My brother will also tell you all about what his wages would be if he didn't get tips. We are lucky, in Canada the difference is small, not the case in many of the US states where base salary is dismal.. Wait staff are paid the minimum wage and tips. Tips are supposed to be counted into earnings and taxes paid as a result (they are considered earnings), but I don't know if everybody does that!.)
Well, I don't believe it. I spend a lot of time in Europe, and I was a server here in the US, and I can tell you being left a tip is never "insulting" unless it is a penny or a dime left specifically as an insult. Servers in Spain are generally paid around 7.50 an hour - but they are NOT just servers. They're also made to clean the place, stock, prep etc. Rounding up is very much acceptable. It is also perfectly OK not to tip. Most Americans and Canadians are going to be so blown away by what would be considered VERY slow/neglectful service in Spain that they won't feel much like tipping anyway.Believe it or not, tipping can be a insult in Europe. If service was good feel free to leave the loose change. If it was superior leave a Euro to 2. Buen Camino
While service occasionally can be disinterested, and many servers are not good at multi-tasking, in most cases the service is leisurely in the style of the Spanish. In Spain you have a table for as long as you want. No one is pushing you along for a second seating. It is much more like being invited into a home than restaurants in the U.S. It may come across as neglectful, I do not think it is intended that way.slow/neglectful service in Spain
I only tip when service deserves it. I seriously dont understand why people EXPECT to get tips. Why, because they gave me a glass and a bottle of coke? Thats their job, isnt it?
People in Europe dont have to live of the tips they get like in the usa. Here they get at least the minimum wage, just like the garbage man, the cashiere at the supermarket or the storeclerk or....well, you name it.
I never see anybody tipping them for collecting the trash or putting my newly bought undies or oranges in a bag.
I have yet to have my first customer who pays me more than the invoice i send him. And believe me, i go out of my way for my customers.
Not true Heather, in many provinces the minimal wage for people who earn tips is less than the standard minimal wage. My brother will also tell you all about what his wages would be if he didn't get tips. We are lucky, in Canada the difference is small, not the case in many of the US states where base salary is dismal.
Now, he will only declare enough tips to bring him to regular minimal wage and pocket the rest, which makes my blood boil, but that is another issue. Well... Frankly, I would rather have the meal be more expensive, to cover 100% of the staff wages,and have everyone pay their income tax as it should be. But the industry will argue that if the difference in wages is rolled into the price of the items we order we will no longer eat or drink out. What a load of nonsense.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_Canada
So a waiter or a garbageman would at least earn that minimum wage.
And thats why i said 'at least'Actually, in the Netherlands at least dustbin men earn quite a bit more than minimum wage. It's still not a vast amount, but definitely more than minimum wage.
My take on it so far, @MeanPhilippine is that it is completely unnecessary and entirely optional.So, what's the concensus to the original question, TIP or NO TIP?
I'll see it for myself next week when I get there.My take on it so far, @MeanPhilippine is that it is completely unnecessary and entirely optional.
Ditto! We are not disecting a fetal pig to find out its molecular structureSeriously folks!!! IMO, don't worry so much about offending people in another country because you leave a tip, waive, smile, laugh, or (fill in the blank). Be yourself. Don't waste your time following some perceived fake etiquette that supposedly exists in the new strange land you find yourself in. Smile, laugh, be genuine and leave a tip if YOU feel like it. You will find how much we all all the same.
Well, I said on PEI wait staff are paid minimum wage. Then I said in another paragraph that tips are given for wait staff alone, or are split between wait staff or if they are lucky with the kitchen staff included. That was referring to places across the country--or at least where my brother has worked: PEI, NB, NS, Que and Ont. (I also worked in the food industry when I was in university and always got minimum wage and tips--PEI, NS, NB.)
Across the country and in each individual eating establishment, the tips are apportioned unique to that eating establishment. Most times they don't go to the kitchen staff. And I stand by what my brother says--the wait staff can make a decent living because of the tips; the kitchen staff, including well trained chefs (some of whom have trained at very good schools and have worked for a very long time--like my brother--33 years as a chef) do not.
I will completely agree with you though; tipping should be abolished and the staff--ALL of the staff--who work in places where people eat, should be given a living wage. While wait staff here on PEI are paid minimum wage of $10.50/hour, soon to go up to $10./hour $11.00/hour, the living wage is still a low $15. I can pay a couple of extra $$ for my meals, as most people can, if the people who make it, serve it and clean it up, can afford to pay their live--and not by the skin of their teeth.
I didn't see Yoost, nor any of the characters on the movie The Way, tip at all. If it's not in the movie version of the Camino guide, then you're not obligated to do15-20? Wow, thats alot. Just for bringing the food your also paying for.
It's nothing by Dutch standard...So can one bring his (or her) homegrown pot as well?
Yup yup or it wouldn't be in the movieIf Joost can, anyone can....right?
If Jack from Amsterdam is a member here, he'd get a lot of ideas for his book.Ooh, text time i'd better stay at Leon Parador than.
The movie keeps getter better by the post
Just wanted to pop in and say hi to a fellow Islander! And yes, your comments are totally accurate for PEI at least.I often eat with a friend and she's... well, not a big tipper, and I try to pay the tips when we eat together because I feel bad for the people working. Especially in the US. There was one time she was going to leave a small tip and then saw what the "suggested" tip was on the bill and she was shocked, then corrected her tip! I usually try to leave between 15-20%. Now, I don't eat fancy dinners, I'm a simple eater, so it is not a huge amount either.
Hey Tina!
Are you home or are you living away? I've been back since 2007 but do like to get across to the 'real world' as often as I can!
My office/clinic is above Beanz, a great coffee shop/cafe so I eat there often. If I don't leave a tip one time, the staff knows that they'll get a good-sized handful of change (loonies, toonies) the next time to make up for it. When I eat out, I tend to leave a 25-30% tip, if it's warranted--good service, good food, clean place--no dirty dishes, cutlery, etc on the table. Most times more than not, the tip is well deserved.
Traveling with my mother (driving her and a friend from N. Ontario to PEI) I discovered at Fred's in Shediac that she had not tipped anywhere ever at all, in any of the places we had eaten. Good places all. I was mortified... How could we have driven that far and I did not notice. How could we have driven that far and she had not left any tips. How could we have driven that far and gotten out of all those cafes/restaurants alive?!!!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?