LastPilgrim
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2016 March-April
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First, do what you can to not transport them down the trail. While bed bugs live in walls and bunks, they can end up in packs and sleeping bags. Start by shaking everything out vigorously.what I should do next as I know it is not easy to get rid of them
Kanga, how long does the clothes, sleeping bag, pack need to be in the dryer to kill bedbugs? Thanks.It's OK, not that big a deal, but you need to fix it before you leave Burgos.
First, I'd put everything into a black plastic garbage bag, to keep any little stowaways contained. Heat kills bedbugs and their eggs. The easiest and most efficient thing to do is put all your clothes, sleeping bag, backpack, the lot, still dry, into a commercial hot dryer (find a laundromat). You are in Burgos so hopefully there is one around. I'd buy myself some new clothes to wear while I was doing that.
Don't overlook your credential, passport, wallet, mobile phone and electronics - you can't put those in a dryer but you can inspect them and maybe use some insecticide on them - bedbugs have been known to hide in all those places.
how long does the clothes, sleeping bag, pack need to be in the dryer to kill bedbugs?
Flip, I'm arriving in Burgos on Thursday . Had planned to stay there! That's case de Cubo right? I hope they get it sorted, I've heard nothing but good things about that albergue. Are there any other albergues open in Burgos at this time of year?
Burgos Muni is really big, 3 or 4 floors, with cubicle bunks so the problem with bedbugs would most likely be "contained" in a sense. Best advice is to really check the beds out carefully beforehand AND check out your own backpacks inside and out AND keep the packs OFF the beds. We stayed at the Burgos Muni twice and really liked it a lot.
Good to know, but I'll hold good thoughts for no repeat of the bronchitis condition in 2017. Thanks for your post. MaggieYes . We stayed three nights in an albergue at the end. Also, I met pilgrims with badly blistered feet that had waited out for extra rest days. I'm assuming it's up to the particular place, but I find people very understanding and helpful on camino. My friend got sick whilst walking the meseta and was looked after by Eduardo in boadilla. She rested up for a few nights I think.
You certainly did all the right things and I would also say, went over and above in trying to find a solution, so good on you. And I am sorry you had the situation in the first place. I was just glad that it came up about length of stay in the Albergues. I was indeed of the assumption it was one night, but should have known, there is much understanding among the Hospitaleros. Every little bit of info helps when planning even a second Camino. Continued bug-free journey and Buen Camino. MaggieThanks to all, who provided valuable advice to deal with my bed bug situation. I tried to act responsibly. As said at first I reported the problem to the hospitaleras so that they can attend it. Then I went to look for permethrin in the city. After visiting some 7 different pharmacies, an outdoors shop and a supermarket with no success I eventualy got a DEET spray (said by the pharmacist to be a suitable alternative to permythrin against the bed bugs) from a pharmacy in Plaza Mayor. I decided that the best way not to potentially spread the insect is to stay at the very same albergue (since it is already infested) and do the cleaning there. Burgos Muni has decent, commercial grade washers and dryers. So I requested one more night there and was granted that. I tumle dried everything I could at high temp including the backpack, washed the sleeping bag, the liner and clothes and then treated most of the things with the spay I got. Put most small, non-washable items in sealed plastic bags. Will see if that helps and hope to continue my Camino tomorrow. Thanks again!
How do you know you were bitten last night? It's my understanding that it can take a few days for the bites to appear. Am I mistaken? I know mine appeared while waiting for my flight at the airport amd more popped up after I got home. I was so concerned I had brought them home!
My concern would be how to treat my lovely down quilt from Enlightened Equipment. Washing and drying with high heat could cause some damage.
... was a little scared for my EE quilt, but he survided the torture of the hot sauna with flying colours.
Still would never tumble dry it with heat. Just with cold air and 4 tennis balls)
I met some pilgrims on the camino late last fall who told me that they had been bitten by bedbugs at the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. They were rather surprised, as they saw that albergue as new and in good condition.
Thank you Annie. So basically we cannot know where exactly we were bitten, unless we see the creepy crawlies since some of us will react instantly while others will react a while after? If that is correct, this explains while it is so difficult to get rid of these: we can carry them without ever suspecting we were in a place where we shared a bed with them.It depends on the person and whether or not they are allergic.
Some bites pop up the very first morning.
The quilt is ever so easy to inspect for bedbugs. Not a whole lot of places for them to hide.
Ive also used permethrin on my EE plenty of times, never had a problem with it.
Sawyers permethrin ... 2 coats on my sleeping bag and sprayed my silk liner until it was soaked with it, and also purchased a permethrin impregnated bedsheet... that's my paranoia sorted.
I did research of it and found nothing common. I, myself don't have sensitive skin, I doubt I will have much bare skin touching. I am not sure about others.Nobody has allergic reactions to this stuff?
Outside. You do not want the stuff so close to your skin.Do people spray the inside and outside of sleeping bag or just the outside (apologize if this has been asked, long thread!)
Do you just put the permethrin in a spray bottle and spray it on?
I just sprayed the outside.Do people spray the inside and outside of sleeping bag or just the outside (apologize if this has been asked, long thread!)
Also, in the U.S. Dicks Sporting Goods and Wal-mart both sell it in a spray bottle and aeresol can.JillGat:
You can buy it at any REI or comparable store. It is sold in a spray bottle.I spray my sleeping bag and back pack one day prior to leaving. So far have been fortunate not to encounter and bed bugs.
Joe
Same here. I ALWAYS check first as soon as I enter a room , before I even put down anything.Question for people who have been bitten by bedbugs - did you check the mattress, bed joints and surround floor boards for bedbug signs first? I read people have been bitten by bedbugs even with using treated permethrin sheets and sleeping bags but did they check for signs of bedbugs first?
I treat all my gear with permethrin and a treat sheet to cover the mattress. I always check for signs of bedbugs on the mattress, bedframe and surround area before I decide to sleep on the bed.
So I am wondering for the ones that carried treated gears and were bitten by bedbugs, did you also check for bedbug signs on the mattress and around area of your bed?
I sprayed both inside and out and dried the sleeping bag well. Same for shoes, backpack. All the rest, and I mean all the rest, I sprayed outside only. Repeated spraying pack and sleeping bag once because I bought CLAQUO(?sp) in France and carried it. Used it to spray questionable bedding on the way (not with other people around). When I got home, changed in airport and used hottest dryer setting on all that was soft including expensive down bag and icebreaker clothes when I got home - 45 minutes to be sure. The rest got the freezer treatment. You can call this paranoia but avoiding a house infestation is worth it. Learned of someone who ultimately had to have her wood floors ripped out because of bedbugs that would not quit.Outside. You do not want the stuff so close to your skin.
I got them in Orisson last year coming all the way from Le Puy en Velay. After washing everything 3x I gave up..bit I'd already walked 500 miles. Just keep washing and leave your pack outside so you don't leave critters at the other alberques. Be responsible. .that's the ethical thing to do which sounds like you're trying. The problem arises when people aren't responsible and don't wash and expect magically for them to disappear by themselves. .Hi,
I have had an unfortunate experience tonight to be bitten by bed bugs in the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. I am sure it was bed bugs because I managed to catch several at night in my bed (and took pictures in the morning). I stayed two nights in this albergue, but different beds - the first night was ok, the second gave me the bed bug problem. Now I am freaking out what I should do next as I know it is not easy to get rid of them... Of course, I reported the problem to the hospitaleros.
How do you check for bedbugs?Question for people who have been bitten by bedbugs - did you check the mattress, bed joints and surround floor boards for bedbug signs first? I read people have been bitten by bedbugs even with using treated permethrin sheets and sleeping bags but did they check for signs of bedbugs first?
I treat all my gear with permethrin and a treat sheet to cover the mattress. I always check for signs of bedbugs on the mattress, bedframe and surround area before I decide to sleep on the bed.
So I am wondering for the ones that carried treated gears and were bitten by bedbugs, did you also check for bedbug signs on the mattress and around area of your bed?
Good question. What are all the signs to look for? thanksHow do you check for bedbugs?
You took your entire pack and contents into the sauna? You've got more nerve than I do! ;-) Anyone else in there? Love the bug solutionThe nicest way to get rid of bedbugs is to have a sauna with them. I did last year in Astorga when i suspected i may have had bedbugs in my stuff after i found out i slept in a room with bedbugs the night before.
Walked into hotel spa ciudad de astorga, booked a room and a spa session, dumped all my stuff in the sauna (including me), had a swim, a steambath and a bubble bath and after all my stuff had been in the hot 85-90 degree sauna for 45 minutes, i was happy again. No way any critter would have survided that. Heck, i almost even melted!
Oh yes, i was a little scared for my EE quilt, but he survided the torture of the hot sauna with flying colours.
Still would never tumble dry it with heat. Just with cold air and 4 tennis balls)
How do you check for bedbugs?
I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)
Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water
Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.
A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.
New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.
Buen (bug-free) Camino
@BrienC And I will say it again too. Treating bedbugs as you suggest is useless. Worse, it is dangerous to lull people into a false sense of security and likely to spread bedbugs further because they don't think they can be carriers.
Thank you Brien C - This is very helpful.I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)
Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water
Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.
A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.
New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.
Buen (bug-free) Camino
Yep, the whole thing. After about 30 min 2 others came, but they seem to careYou took your entire pack and contents into the sauna? You've got more nerve than I do! ;-) Anyone else in there? Love the bug solution
Not according to every scientific study! Tea tree oil will kill a bed bug with direct application (so will sulphuric acid). No study has shown that Skin So Soft, eucalyptus oil, lavender oil, or any herb repels any insect, much less the bed bug. DEET works as a repellent. Permethrin and some other insecticides kill them, but are less effective as repellents. If you go with the homeopathic recommendations, avoiding a bite will be a matter of luck, not treatment.I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.
Who funds those studies? Follow the money.Not according to every scientific study!
Snakeoil? I'm sorry. Just because a natural product does not have the backing of millions of dollars and propaganda galore, does not make it a bad thing. I'm speaking from experience. As I said once before, maybe it has been luck or God listening to my intentions to be bug-free. But, the results are the results. I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite.snakeoil
Empirical? Definition: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. Hence, by my observation and experience, not the logic that because a chemical company said so, I believe in what I say here. From an earlier response: I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite.We've been through this debate before, but just need to ask where the empirical data are to support the effectiveness of this spray? I believe in evidence more than I believe that natural is always better.
Kanga, I totally agree with you that we are all part of the issue as potential carriers. Thus, we have an obligation to do what we can to avoid such. I'm simply saying there are options.@BrienC And I will say it again too. Treating bedbugs as you suggest is useless. Worse, it is dangerous to lull people into a false sense of security and likely to spread bedbugs further because they don't think they can be carriers.
I emailed EE and asked them about them... and they replied very quickly with this...
Usually what people do is just use permethrin on there quilt. I know Sawyer permethrin is down safe. I would not use heat when drying my quilt and very little when washing it as you could melt the fabric. Sorry I do not have a better solution for you than to just use permethrin but so far it is the only way to eliminate bed bugs without damaging the quilt. Let me know if you have any other questions.
I'm going to treat all my gear with the Sawyer product before I leave and follow the advice re checking and not leaving my pack on the bed... but I wouldn't do the hot heat drying for the same reasons as you... but maybe a cooler dry and leaving the quilt in black bags in the sun would be enough... and perhaps a really thorough shake and investgation to ensure no hangers on?
I'm hoping that prevention and vigilance is better than cure.
Government - taxpayers. Universities - taxpayers. Scientific method is the big winner. I am always a bit suspicious when retailers of eucalyptus oil present a study that, voila, eucalyptus oil repels bed bugs (and cures insomnia, impotence, and global climate change). When the Canadian and U.S. governments study permethrin to see if it will protect soldiers, I pay a bit more attention.Who funds those studies? Follow the money.
In fact, very few studies seem to have been done on the efficacy of any product in repelling bedbugs in the type of situation we pilgrims face. The few studies I've seen show very little benefit from either essential oils or insecticides when applied in advance to fabric. Each of us has to make an educated guess or risk assessment, and decide what precautions to take.Who funds those studies? Follow the money.
The problem really is that they don't present a study. They just make an unsubstantiated claim.retailers of eucalyptus oil present a study
This is the best approach possible.I'm sorry if I'm worrying anyone but in the interests of keeping clear of bugs, I wanted to let you know I had to move albergue yesterday. I'm in carrion and got a bed in Espiritu santu albergue. Sadly, I found a live bedbug crawling under my bed, on the floor. It was definitely a bedbug. I follow some rules. I always check everywhere, use a lifesystems bedbug sheet and sprayed sleeping bag, both recoated before every Camino, and I tie my pack up in a bin liner. Finding the bug is tough on everyone. It upsets pilgrims around me and I feel bad for that. Really they can be anywhere. Having said that pilgrims are not following simple rules. I regularly see packs lying on beds. And haven't seen a bedbug sheet apart from mine. This is my third Camino trip. I moved to Santa Maria albergue and explained what happened. They were lovely. I'd a good night last night. No trace of chinches. Espiritu Santo may only of had that one bug, but I want taking any chances. I don't want to become a carrier to other albergues coming up. Anyway, the Camino is lovely, people are kind and bugs are just bugs. I will keep following my rules and hopefully they will keep me clear of the chinhes. And if not, then its dryer time. So, always check guys, they can be anywhere, but certainly don't let it become a nightmare, it's just one of those things. Hope my info helps you make informed choices.
I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)
Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water
Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.
A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.
New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.
Buen (bug-free) Camino
If you are thinking of spraying with permethrin, and you are a pet owner, you should know it is highly toxic to cats and fish.
http://icatcare.org/permethrin/owner-info
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html
And, at the risk of beating a dead bed bug, I am sensitive to several of those essential oils and, if a lot of people were spraying it around, I'd have to go sleep somewhere else to avoid an asthma attack.
I'm probably one of the most sensitive persons in the world to chemicals and once permethrin is dry, it doesn't bother me at all. There is no scent.Nobody has allergic reactions to this stuff?
Thanks @LesBrass... I was also thinking of putting it in a freezer when I get home in case of any stowaways. Hopefully freezing won't damage the down - or maybe this is a crazy idea?!
Thank you, this was a fun read but very helpful
What do you do with your pack?Yes, and that's why you unpack your backpack in the bathtub when you get home - and put everything into the washer/dryer. Unwashable stuff can be put in the freezer for three days.
That was not our experience. Maybe Yucatan mosquitos are different;-)A bit off topic, but it is a FACT that Mexican mosquitos love lavender.
Well, maybe, I was in San Miguel de Allende. But also perhaps I am tastier than youThat was not our experience. Maybe Yucatan mosquitos are different;-)
I wish that were true. Maybe I need to study harder. But they seem to find me easier than I find them![QUOTE="C clearly, post: 393055, member: 1589"
I still say the best way to avoid bedbugs is to know what to look for and to avoid them when you see signs they've been there.
Empirical? Definition: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. Hence, by my observation and experience, not the logic that because a chemical company said so, I believe in what I say here. From an earlier response: I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite
When I worked in Ukraine for a year in the early 90s we had tow things to keep roach like creatures away: borric acid mixed in with hard boiled egg and placed in dishes the feet of the bed would sit in. For keeping them away from the refrigerator, couch, table, we would use something we called "Chinese chalk". It was a white substance molded in the shape of a blackboard writing peice of chalk. We would use it to mark an area around the onject or zone we didn't want thecreepy crawlers to come into. We called it Chinese Chalk because it came in a blue cardboard box with Mandarin/Cantonese writing on it, and came from China, along with the infamous Chinese blankets.The best idea I heard was putting the bedstead legs in little cups full of pesticide or oil or something to kill them before they could crawl onto the bed. They will, however, crawl up the wall and fall on the bed, if they're hungry.
Persistent little buggers!
And the fact that they were once there does not mean the place has not been fumigated over and over since.I wish that were true. Maybe I need to study harder. But they seem to find me easier than I find them!
Yes. I hear it's really nice. Have been on camino twice, no bugs... Bed bug sheet used, sleeping bag treated, mattress and surrounds checked before I unpack, and bags off the bed. Simple steps, but it can't hurt to keep them up. Having said all that I think it's fair to be a little reluctant given the original pilgrims message. It's an awful nuisance for all concerned.
What do you do with your pack?
. We called it Chinese Chalk because it came in a blue cardboard box with Mandarin/Cantonese writing on it, and came from China, along with the infamous Chinese blankets.
Never thought I would ever miss the stuff, but thinking about it it would ne great on the Camino.
How do you check for bed bugs? What are the signs to look out for?
I put it in a garbage sack out on our balcony for several weeks, then take it back in, figuring that any eggs must have hatched, and inspect it thoroughly. Then I dunk it in the bath-tub with hot water and soap. (If our freezer were bigger, I'd go for that instead, 72 hours is supposed to be enough to kill the little buggers.)
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