Albergue Burgos March 22 2016

[LastPilgrim]

Hi,

I have had an unfortunate experience tonight to be bitten by bed bugs in the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. I am sure it was bed bugs because I managed to catch several at night in my bed (and took pictures in the morning). I stayed two nights in this albergue, but different beds - the first night was ok, the second gave me the bed bug problem. Now I am freaking out what I should do next as I know it is not easy to get rid of them... Of course, I reported the problem to the hospitaleros.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

what I should do next as I know it is not easy to get rid of them

First, do what you can to not transport them down the trail. While bed bugs live in walls and bunks, they can end up in packs and sleeping bags. Start by shaking everything out vigorously.

Second, go to a farmacia and ask about bed bug poison. Treat your pack, inside and out, and your sleeping gear. Wash all your clothes in hot water, and use a hot dryer if you can find one. Heat kills bed bugs and their eggs.

Last, be vigilant at your next few stops to see if you are transporting them! If you get bit again, then you may be. Repeat the measures that you can take.

Good luck! That albergue is usually reliably clean. I think the hospitaleros will take action to contain the problem (though that depends on their motivation early in the season).

 

[Kanga]

It's OK, not that big a deal, but you need to fix it before you leave Burgos.

First, I'd put everything into a black plastic garbage bag, to keep any little stowaways contained. Heat kills bedbugs and their eggs. The easiest and most efficient thing to do is put all your clothes, sleeping bag, backpack, the lot, still dry, into a commercial hot dryer (find a laundromat). You are in Burgos so hopefully there is one around. I'd buy myself some new clothes to wear while I was doing that.

Don't overlook your credential, passport, wallet, mobile phone and electronics - you can't put those in a dryer but you can inspect them and maybe use some insecticide on them - bedbugs have been known to hide in all those places.

 

[LastPilgrim]

I am trying to act as both of you have advised. Still am on lookout for permythrin or similar substance, but cannot find one after cheching several pharmacies and an outdoors shop "Base" - the best they have is a usual anti mosquito spray...

 

[Kanga]

Ordinary household insecticide will kill a bedbug if you hit it directly.

If you can't get permethrin (I presume you are wanting to treat your sleeping bag or liner), you may find pyrethrum spray from a garden or farm produce store. Its a last ditch alternative as it breaks down in light and heat, but it might last a while. There will be precautionary instructions on the label - it is OK once it is dried on the fabric (like permethrin) but take care while you are spraying it around.

The anti-mosquito spray is useful to tell if there are bedbugs present - if sprayed in the places where they hide they tend to come out and crawl up the walls, thus becoming visible. And it is not harmful to the people around. But it is useless to kill them or prevent them from biting you.

 

[Tincatinker]

Permethrin is called Permetrina in Spain, which may help.

Edit: Proprietory brands in Spain available at 5% solution include Keltrina, Pioletal, Perme-cure, & Sarcop.

Good luck

 

[Pruden]

Terrible bedbug!!
They are here for the season .
The Spanish word for bedbug is chinches, and I think hospitaleros or somebody from the albergue would know were to buy permetrina , spray or wherever to kill chinches!!
Like other have say before ( the best way to kill them is to heat your clothing in a laundry .
Buen Camino and don't get disappointed by this problem.

 

[Former member 38395]

It's OK, not that big a deal, but you need to fix it before you leave Burgos.

First, I'd put everything into a black plastic garbage bag, to keep any little stowaways contained. Heat kills bedbugs and their eggs. The easiest and most efficient thing to do is put all your clothes, sleeping bag, backpack, the lot, still dry, into a commercial hot dryer (find a laundromat). You are in Burgos so hopefully there is one around. I'd buy myself some new clothes to wear while I was doing that.

Don't overlook your credential, passport, wallet, mobile phone and electronics - you can't put those in a dryer but you can inspect them and maybe use some insecticide on them - bedbugs have been known to hide in all those places.

Kanga, how long does the clothes, sleeping bag, pack need to be in the dryer to kill bedbugs? Thanks.

 

[Former member 38395]

Question for people who have been bitten by bedbugs - did you check the mattress, bed joints and surround floor boards for bedbug signs first? I read people have been bitten by bedbugs even with using treated permethrin sheets and sleeping bags but did they check for signs of bedbugs first?

I treat all my gear with permethrin and a treat sheet to cover the mattress. I always check for signs of bedbugs on the mattress, bedframe and surround area before I decide to sleep on the bed.

So I am wondering for the ones that carried treated gears and were bitten by bedbugs, did you also check for bedbug signs on the mattress and around area of your bed?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

how long does the clothes, sleeping bag, pack need to be in the dryer to kill bedbugs?

• Wash and dry the clothes on the hottest temperature the fabric can safely withstand.
• For dry clean clothes that are able to be placed in a dryer, put into a dryer on at least medium to high setting and run the dryer for at least 30 minutes. Then take dry clean clothes to a professional cleaner’s for cleaning and pressing. Drying will kill the bugs but not clean the clothes.
• If you want to only kill bed bugs and do not need to wash your clothes, simply putting infested items in the dryer for 30 minutes on high health will kill all the bed bugs.
  
  http://www.bedbugs.umn.edu/bed-bug-control-in-residences/laundering-bedbug-control/

 

[J F Gregory]

We bought spray at the pharmacia on a couple of nights ago and are trading our beds before we ever unpack in any of the albergues we're staying at.

 

[KinkyOne]

On my last two Caminos I've had unpleasant experiences with bedbugs. No need to wash your clothes, just dry them as previously suggested. There are washers/driers in Burgos municipal albergue.

Usually ordinary anti-mosquito etc. sprays have permethrin but in smaller percentage. Buy the strongest one if you can't get the "real" permethrin. Spray virtually everything, especially your sleeping bag and rucksack.

If you are facing some nasty skin reaction there's a good cream in pharmacies called CuatroDerme. I'm not at home for a few days so can not tell you the name of a very good anti-histaminic pills if reaction will last for days, hopefully not. I wasn't so lucky and it irritated me for days. Just don't scratch bites with your finger nails, but it's OK to do it with finger "pads" (is that the right word???).

I hope you'll deal with them nasty critters soon and the rest of your Camino will be pleasant!

Ultreia!

 

[Icacos]

For what it's worth, when I was at an albergue at Villafranca del Bierzo a peregrina came in and spoke quietly to the hospitalera. I didn't hear what was said but the peregrina was obviously quite perturbed; I suspected that the issue was bedbugs. The hospitalera quietly took the peregrina elsewhere in the building. I can only assume the matter was dealt with, as next morning said peregrina was all smiles as she thanked the hospitalera profusely for all her help. I wouldn't want to deal on my own with ridding myself of bedbugs while on Camino. A caring hospitalero/a would be worth his/her weight in gold in such a circumstance. IMHO.

 

[Albertagirl]

I met some pilgrims on the camino late last fall who told me that they had been bitten by bedbugs at the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. They were rather surprised, as they saw that albergue as new and in good condition. I am wondering if the bedbugs lasted through the winter and are multiplying in the same location at present. I stayed at Emaus last fall and will be looking to stay there again this fall.

 

[Deepforest]

Flip, I'm arriving in Burgos on Thursday . Had planned to stay there! That's case de Cubo right? I hope they get it sorted, I've heard nothing but good things about that albergue. Are there any other albergues open in Burgos at this time of year?

 

[Montana Jayne]

Flip, I'm arriving in Burgos on Thursday . Had planned to stay there! That's case de Cubo right? I hope they get it sorted, I've heard nothing but good things about that albergue. Are there any other albergues open in Burgos at this time of year?

 

[Montana Jayne]

Burgos Muni is really big, 3 or 4 floors, with cubicle bunks so the problem with bedbugs would most likely be "contained" in a sense. Best advice is to really check the beds out carefully beforehand AND check out your own backpacks inside and out AND keep the packs OFF the beds. We stayed at the Burgos Muni twice and really liked it a lot.

 

[Deepforest]

Yes. I hear it's really nice. Have been on camino twice, no bugs... Bed bug sheet used, sleeping bag treated, mattress and surrounds checked before I unpack, and bags off the bed. Simple steps, but it can't hurt to keep them up. Having said all that I think it's fair to be a little reluctant given the original pilgrims message. It's an awful nuisance for all concerned.

 

[Albertagirl]

According to the Eroski Consumer camino app, there are three albergues in Burgos and one, Albergue Divina Pastora at C/ Lain Calv0, 10, should be open now in addition to the municipal. Divina Pastora opens from Semana Santa (Holy Week, which started Sunday). It has only 16 spaces and charges six euros. You can telephone them at 947 20 79 52. I understand that they do not take bookings but only accept pilgrims with credencials, so that might exclude Spanish holiday goers. Good luck.

 

[Deepforest]

Thanks for the advice! I'll trust it will all be fine, it usually is.

 

[movinmaggie]

Whoops,
Re original post and off topic a bit….can you spend more than one night in the Albergues?. I understood it is one night only. I would have stayed an extra night when I was coughing so bad with bronchitis, but did not wish to ask and just kept going.

 

[Deepforest]

Yes . We stayed three nights in an albergue at the end. Also, I met pilgrims with badly blistered feet that had waited out for extra rest days. I'm assuming it's up to the particular place, but I find people very understanding and helpful on camino. My friend got sick whilst walking the meseta and was looked after by Eduardo in boadilla. She rested up for a few nights I think.

 

[LastPilgrim]

Burgos Muni is really big, 3 or 4 floors, with cubicle bunks so the problem with bedbugs would most likely be "contained" in a sense. Best advice is to really check the beds out carefully beforehand AND check out your own backpacks inside and out AND keep the packs OFF the beds. We stayed at the Burgos Muni twice and really liked it a lot.

Burgos Muni looks modern, it is reasonably equiped. Definitely not the worst albergue I have seen so far. However, the bed bug presense is a matter of fact. I have a suspicion that I haven't been the first or only bitten by the critters there, but perhaps some people just leave the albergue without saying anything to anyone (out of embaresment or other reasons). I have heard some fellow pelegrinos saying they never report the begbugs which I do not find the right way to go. In my case I have checked the bed upon the arival (apparently not diligently enough). There were a few suspicious marks on the matress and the pillow (could have been earlier squashed bed bugs), but thought it shouldn't be a lasting problem at a decent albergue. Well, I was wrong. Unfortunately my gear has not been treated with permythrin in advance).

Overall, Burgos Muni is not bad, but could be cleaner (backpack lockers, shelves). Other missing ammenities are wifi, fridge in the kitchen and hotter water in the showers (it's ok, it is now somewhat inbetween warm and lukewarm, but there is no way to regulate it for yourself). I haven't gone there myself, but I understand from the comments of my Caminow fellows that a good alternative to the Muni is the Emaus albergue and it seems to be already open (if I understood correctly). This albergue is also recommended in the Forum's selected albergues list.

 

[movinmaggie]

Yes . We stayed three nights in an albergue at the end. Also, I met pilgrims with badly blistered feet that had waited out for extra rest days. I'm assuming it's up to the particular place, but I find people very understanding and helpful on camino. My friend got sick whilst walking the meseta and was looked after by Eduardo in boadilla. She rested up for a few nights I think.

Good to know, but I'll hold good thoughts for no repeat of the bronchitis condition in 2017. Thanks for your post. Maggie

 

[LastPilgrim]

Thanks to all, who provided valuable advice to deal with my bed bug situation. I tried to act responsibly. As said at first I reported the problem to the hospitaleras so that they can attend it. Then I went to look for permethrin in the city. After visiting some 7 different pharmacies, an outdoors shop and a supermarket with no success I eventualy got a DEET spray (said by the pharmacist to be a suitable alternative to permythrin against the bed bugs) from a pharmacy in Plaza Mayor. I decided that the best way not to potentially spread the insect is to stay at the very same albergue (since it is already infested) and do the cleaning there. Burgos Muni has decent, commercial grade washers and dryers. So I requested one more night there and was granted that. I tumle dried everything I could at high temp including the backpack, washed the sleeping bag, the liner and clothes and then treated most of the things with the spay I got. Put most small, non-washable items in sealed plastic bags. Will see if that helps and hope to continue my Camino tomorrow. Thanks again!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

How do you know you were bitten last night? It's my understanding that it can take a few days for the bites to appear. Am I mistaken? I know mine appeared while waiting for my flight at the airport amd more popped up after I got home. I was so concerned I had brought them home!

 

[movinmaggie]

Thanks to all, who provided valuable advice to deal with my bed bug situation. I tried to act responsibly. As said at first I reported the problem to the hospitaleras so that they can attend it. Then I went to look for permethrin in the city. After visiting some 7 different pharmacies, an outdoors shop and a supermarket with no success I eventualy got a DEET spray (said by the pharmacist to be a suitable alternative to permythrin against the bed bugs) from a pharmacy in Plaza Mayor. I decided that the best way not to potentially spread the insect is to stay at the very same albergue (since it is already infested) and do the cleaning there. Burgos Muni has decent, commercial grade washers and dryers. So I requested one more night there and was granted that. I tumle dried everything I could at high temp including the backpack, washed the sleeping bag, the liner and clothes and then treated most of the things with the spay I got. Put most small, non-washable items in sealed plastic bags. Will see if that helps and hope to continue my Camino tomorrow. Thanks again!

You certainly did all the right things and I would also say, went over and above in trying to find a solution, so good on you. And I am sorry you had the situation in the first place. I was just glad that it came up about length of stay in the Albergues. I was indeed of the assumption it was one night, but should have known, there is much understanding among the Hospitaleros. Every little bit of info helps when planning even a second Camino. Continued bug-free journey and Buen Camino. Maggie

 

[Anniesantiago]

How do you know you were bitten last night? It's my understanding that it can take a few days for the bites to appear. Am I mistaken? I know mine appeared while waiting for my flight at the airport amd more popped up after I got home. I was so concerned I had brought them home!

It depends on the person and whether or not they are allergic.
Some bites pop up the very first morning.

 

[JillGat]

My concern would be how to treat my lovely down quilt from Enlightened Equipment. Washing and drying with high heat could cause some damage.

 

[LesBrass]

My concern would be how to treat my lovely down quilt from Enlightened Equipment. Washing and drying with high heat could cause some damage.

I emailed EE and asked them about them... and they replied very quickly with this...

Usually what people do is just use permethrin on there quilt. I know Sawyer permethrin is down safe. I would not use heat when drying my quilt and very little when washing it as you could melt the fabric. Sorry I do not have a better solution for you than to just use permethrin but so far it is the only way to eliminate bed bugs without damaging the quilt. Let me know if you have any other questions.

I'm going to treat all my gear with the Sawyer product before I leave and follow the advice re checking and not leaving my pack on the bed... but I wouldn't do the hot heat drying for the same reasons as you... but maybe a cooler dry and leaving the quilt in black bags in the sun would be enough... and perhaps a really thorough shake and investgation to ensure no hangers on?

I'm hoping that prevention and vigilance is better than cure.

 

[Dutch]

The quilt is ever so easy to inspect for bedbugs. Not a whole lot of places for them to hide.

Ive also used permethrin on my EE plenty of times, never had a problem with it.

Re burgos muni: they seem to have bedbugs often. I have seen bb crawlimg around there and know of others that have as well in the same year and in different years. Not even mentioning the people from this forum that have had bb encounters at burbos muni.

I used to like burgos muni, but the bb problem isnt a main priority there, or so it appears to be. Dont think i will be staying there again. Too bad though, the location is hard to beat.

 

[Kanga]

@JillGat no need to wash it (washing it in a washing machine would definitely damage it), you can put it dry in the dryer on high heat for 30 minutes. Bedbugs die when their body temperature reaches 45C (115F) and the heat needs to be sustained and higher than 45C to ensure killing them no matter where they are hiding.

I've read that dry cleaning kills bedbugs but not in any scientific papers or from a reliable source. @dougfitz you are good at this kind of research, do you know?

I treat my down quilt with permethrin before leaving home.

 

[Dutch]

The nicest way to get rid of bedbugs is to have a sauna with them. I did last year in Astorga when i suspected i may have had bedbugs in my stuff after i found out i slept in a room with bedbugs the night before.

Walked into hotel spa ciudad de astorga, booked a room and a spa session, dumped all my stuff in the sauna (including me), had a swim, a steambath and a bubble bath and after all my stuff had been in the hot 85-90 degree sauna for 45 minutes, i was happy again. No way any critter would have survided that. Heck, i almost even melted!

Oh yes, i was a little scared for my EE quilt, but he survided the torture of the hot sauna with flying colours.

Still would never tumble dry it with heat. Just with cold air and 4 tennis balls )

 

[LesBrass]

... was a little scared for my EE quilt, but he survided the torture of the hot sauna with flying colours.

Still would never tumble dry it with heat. Just with cold air and 4 tennis balls )

Mine's a 'she'

 

[peregrina2000]

I met some pilgrims on the camino late last fall who told me that they had been bitten by bedbugs at the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. They were rather surprised, as they saw that albergue as new and in good condition.

Others have pointed this out in the past, but I think it's important to keep in mind that the cleanliness standards of the albergue have absolutely nothing to do with whether it will have bedbugs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/26/bedbugs-found-at-ritz-carlton-hotel_n_1233907.html

Though I do think it's fair to say that the less well tended albergues may be more likely to have them, just because their owners are less likely to take action to get rid of them once they are detected. But spanking clean and brand new is no protection, it just takes one of those little critters arriving in someone's pack for the whole cycle to begin.

I admire those who take all the precautions described in these threads, and I realize that I have been extremely fortunate to have been bitten only once in all these years.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

It depends on the person and whether or not they are allergic.
Some bites pop up the very first morning.

Thank you Annie. So basically we cannot know where exactly we were bitten, unless we see the creepy crawlies since some of us will react instantly while others will react a while after? If that is correct, this explains while it is so difficult to get rid of these: we can carry them without ever suspecting we were in a place where we shared a bed with them.

 

[HeidiL]

Yes, and that's why you unpack your backpack in the bathtub when you get home - and put everything into the washer/dryer. Unwashable stuff can be put in the freezer for three days.

 

[JillGat]

The quilt is ever so easy to inspect for bedbugs. Not a whole lot of places for them to hide.

Ive also used permethrin on my EE plenty of times, never had a problem with it.

Do you just put the permethrin in a spray bottle and spray it on?

 

[Dutch]

I have a small bottle of 100% permethrin that i have to mix with a certain amount of water. I put that in a normal plantspray bottle and then just spray it on my quilt and on the inside and outside of my pack and just let it dry. @JillGat

With, for example, a silk sleepingbag liner, you could also soak this in the watered mix and let it fully flatdry on the ground on, say, a plastic sheet. This would make the permethrin effect last a few washing cycles longer. If you have a pre-mix permethrin bottle then also just spray it on there.

I would suggest you do the spraying and drying outside. The fresh smell of permethrin isn't something you wanna have in your house while your hubbie is preparing dinner

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Sawyers permethrin ... 2 coats on my sleeping bag and sprayed my silk liner until it was soaked with it, and also purchased a permethrin impregnated bedsheet... that's my paranoia sorted.

 

[JillGat]

Sawyers permethrin ... 2 coats on my sleeping bag and sprayed my silk liner until it was soaked with it, and also purchased a permethrin impregnated bedsheet... that's my paranoia sorted.

Nobody has allergic reactions to this stuff?

 

[Kanga]

@JillGat once it is dry you would not know it was there.

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Nobody has allergic reactions to this stuff?

I did research of it and found nothing common. I, myself don't have sensitive skin, I doubt I will have much bare skin touching. I am not sure about others.
I looked long and hard before I purchased the Sawyer spray at $80NZD... and when dry my gear still smells like the new material it is. I am at peace with all my decisions. Just have to pack and get on that plane next week.... (teeheehee)...

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

@JillGat once it is dry you would not know it was there.

So true @Kanga, I was amazed that the new smell of material was still there after it was dry
I'll take that over squashed bugs with blood...
Good luck everyone!

 

[Deepforest]

Just a wee update, emuas in Burgos is not open til 1st abril. Sign on the door. So I stayed in municipal. Was very pleasant. Ask good, birthing to report. So, just check well before being down and enjoy your Camino.

 

[Lmsundaze]

Do people spray the inside and outside of sleeping bag or just the outside (apologize if this has been asked, long thread!)

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Do people spray the inside and outside of sleeping bag or just the outside (apologize if this has been asked, long thread!)

Outside. You do not want the stuff so close to your skin.

 

[jpflavin1]

Do you just put the permethrin in a spray bottle and spray it on?

JillGat:

You can buy it at any REI or comparable store. It is sold in a spray bottle.I spray my sleeping bag and back pack one day prior to leaving. So far have been fortunate not to encounter any bed bugs.

Joe

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Do people spray the inside and outside of sleeping bag or just the outside (apologize if this has been asked, long thread!)

I just sprayed the outside.

 

[Dave C.]

JillGat:

You can buy it at any REI or comparable store. It is sold in a spray bottle.I spray my sleeping bag and back pack one day prior to leaving. So far have been fortunate not to encounter and bed bugs.

Joe

Also, in the U.S. Dicks Sporting Goods and Wal-mart both sell it in a spray bottle and aeresol can.

 

[Dutchwalk53]

Question for people who have been bitten by bedbugs - did you check the mattress, bed joints and surround floor boards for bedbug signs first? I read people have been bitten by bedbugs even with using treated permethrin sheets and sleeping bags but did they check for signs of bedbugs first?

I treat all my gear with permethrin and a treat sheet to cover the mattress. I always check for signs of bedbugs on the mattress, bedframe and surround area before I decide to sleep on the bed.

So I am wondering for the ones that carried treated gears and were bitten by bedbugs, did you also check for bedbug signs on the mattress and around area of your bed?

Same here. I ALWAYS check first as soon as I enter a room , before I even put down anything.

 

[BrienC]

I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)

Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water

Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.

A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.

New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.

Buen (bug-free) Camino

 

[Seeker43]

Outside. You do not want the stuff so close to your skin.

I sprayed both inside and out and dried the sleeping bag well. Same for shoes, backpack. All the rest, and I mean all the rest, I sprayed outside only. Repeated spraying pack and sleeping bag once because I bought CLAQUO(?sp) in France and carried it. Used it to spray questionable bedding on the way (not with other people around). When I got home, changed in airport and used hottest dryer setting on all that was soft including expensive down bag and icebreaker clothes when I got home - 45 minutes to be sure. The rest got the freezer treatment. You can call this paranoia but avoiding a house infestation is worth it. Learned of someone who ultimately had to have her wood floors ripped out because of bedbugs that would not quit.
Sleeping bag and merino clothing were bone dry when they got the heat treatment and are fine. My boots are no longer waterproof though.

 

[compliance51]

Hi,

I have had an unfortunate experience tonight to be bitten by bed bugs in the Municipal Albergue in Burgos. I am sure it was bed bugs because I managed to catch several at night in my bed (and took pictures in the morning). I stayed two nights in this albergue, but different beds - the first night was ok, the second gave me the bed bug problem. Now I am freaking out what I should do next as I know it is not easy to get rid of them... Of course, I reported the problem to the hospitaleros.

I got them in Orisson last year coming all the way from Le Puy en Velay. After washing everything 3x I gave up..bit I'd already walked 500 miles. Just keep washing and leave your pack outside so you don't leave critters at the other alberques. Be responsible. .that's the ethical thing to do which sounds like you're trying. The problem arises when people aren't responsible and don't wash and expect magically for them to disappear by themselves. .

 

[cosan]

Question for people who have been bitten by bedbugs - did you check the mattress, bed joints and surround floor boards for bedbug signs first? I read people have been bitten by bedbugs even with using treated permethrin sheets and sleeping bags but did they check for signs of bedbugs first?

I treat all my gear with permethrin and a treat sheet to cover the mattress. I always check for signs of bedbugs on the mattress, bedframe and surround area before I decide to sleep on the bed.

So I am wondering for the ones that carried treated gears and were bitten by bedbugs, did you also check for bedbug signs on the mattress and around area of your bed?

How do you check for bedbugs?

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

How do you check for bedbugs?

Good question. What are all the signs to look for? thanks

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Also I am taking a large plastic rubbish bag to store my pack in over night on the floor. Then I can fold it inwardly when I leave.

 

[SimiK]

The nicest way to get rid of bedbugs is to have a sauna with them. I did last year in Astorga when i suspected i may have had bedbugs in my stuff after i found out i slept in a room with bedbugs the night before.

Walked into hotel spa ciudad de astorga, booked a room and a spa session, dumped all my stuff in the sauna (including me), had a swim, a steambath and a bubble bath and after all my stuff had been in the hot 85-90 degree sauna for 45 minutes, i was happy again. No way any critter would have survided that. Heck, i almost even melted!

Oh yes, i was a little scared for my EE quilt, but he survided the torture of the hot sauna with flying colours.

Still would never tumble dry it with heat. Just with cold air and 4 tennis balls )

You took your entire pack and contents into the sauna? You've got more nerve than I do! ;-) Anyone else in there? Love the bug solution

 

[Former member 38395]

How do you check for bedbugs?

Read it here : http://www.caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/2011/06/dont-let-bedbugs-bite.html

 

[JillGat]

I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)

Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water

Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.

A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.

New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.

Buen (bug-free) Camino

We've been through this debate before, but just need to ask where the empirical data are to support the effectiveness of this spray? I believe in evidence more than I believe that natural is always better.

 

[Kanga]

@BrienC And I will say it again too. Treating bedbugs as you suggest is useless. Worse, it is dangerous to lull people into a false sense of security and likely to spread bedbugs further because they don't think they can be carriers.

 

[JillGat]

@BrienC And I will say it again too. Treating bedbugs as you suggest is useless. Worse, it is dangerous to lull people into a false sense of security and likely to spread bedbugs further because they don't think they can be carriers.

And, at the risk of beating a dead bed bug, I am sensitive to several of those essential oils and, if a lot of people were spraying it around, I'd have to go sleep somewhere else to avoid an asthma attack.

 

[Camino Yogini]

If you are thinking of spraying with permethrin, and you are a pet owner, you should know it is highly toxic to cats and fish.
http://icatcare.org/permethrin/owner-info
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html

 

[Shelley1000]

I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)

Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water

Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.

A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.

New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.

Buen (bug-free) Camino

Thank you Brien C - This is very helpful.

 

[Kanga]

@Shelley1000 not at all helpful. The reverse. Don't be misled. It does not work. Don't become an unwitting carrier of the little critters. Use vigilance instead and don't rely on snakeoil.

 

[Dutch]

You took your entire pack and contents into the sauna? You've got more nerve than I do! ;-) Anyone else in there? Love the bug solution

Yep, the whole thing. After about 30 min 2 others came, but they seem to care

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.

Not according to every scientific study! Tea tree oil will kill a bed bug with direct application (so will sulphuric acid). No study has shown that Skin So Soft, eucalyptus oil, lavender oil, or any herb repels any insect, much less the bed bug. DEET works as a repellent. Permethrin and some other insecticides kill them, but are less effective as repellents. If you go with the homeopathic recommendations, avoiding a bite will be a matter of luck, not treatment.

 

[BrienC]

Not according to every scientific study!

Who funds those studies? Follow the money.

 

[BrienC]

snakeoil

Snakeoil? I'm sorry. Just because a natural product does not have the backing of millions of dollars and propaganda galore, does not make it a bad thing. I'm speaking from experience. As I said once before, maybe it has been luck or God listening to my intentions to be bug-free. But, the results are the results. I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite.
For those wishing to buy a "manufactured product" and stay away from toxic formulas, check out http://www.fabriclear.com. Probably another snakeoil, but you then you don't have to take it from me. Read their information and decide for yourself.

Cheers,

 

[BrienC]

We've been through this debate before, but just need to ask where the empirical data are to support the effectiveness of this spray? I believe in evidence more than I believe that natural is always better.

Empirical? Definition: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. Hence, by my observation and experience, not the logic that because a chemical company said so, I believe in what I say here. From an earlier response: I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite.

@BrienC And I will say it again too. Treating bedbugs as you suggest is useless. Worse, it is dangerous to lull people into a false sense of security and likely to spread bedbugs further because they don't think they can be carriers.

Kanga, I totally agree with you that we are all part of the issue as potential carriers. Thus, we have an obligation to do what we can to avoid such. I'm simply saying there are options.

 

[NualaOC]

I emailed EE and asked them about them... and they replied very quickly with this...

Usually what people do is just use permethrin on there quilt. I know Sawyer permethrin is down safe. I would not use heat when drying my quilt and very little when washing it as you could melt the fabric. Sorry I do not have a better solution for you than to just use permethrin but so far it is the only way to eliminate bed bugs without damaging the quilt. Let me know if you have any other questions.

I'm going to treat all my gear with the Sawyer product before I leave and follow the advice re checking and not leaving my pack on the bed... but I wouldn't do the hot heat drying for the same reasons as you... but maybe a cooler dry and leaving the quilt in black bags in the sun would be enough... and perhaps a really thorough shake and investgation to ensure no hangers on?

I'm hoping that prevention and vigilance is better than cure.

Thanks @LesBrass, I've ordered an EE quilt and I had the same concerns. If I run into BB problems, I'm hoping that putting the quilt in a black bag in the sun will be enough. I was also thinking of putting it in a freezer when I get home in case of any stowaways. Hopefully freezing won't damage the down - or maybe this is a crazy idea?!
I've avoided using chemicals on my sleeping materials up to now, but I will probably reconsider this stance now that I've invested in an EE.

 

[Shalaw]

I came down with bites last fall, when me and my fiancé did our camino frances. He didn't get them!! Only I did, and if it's true that the bites surface a day or two later or the next morning, I really had no idea where I was bitten. So, we got me some antihistamine from the farmacia (a godsend!!) and then we went to the ferreteria and got a spray for chinches (a hardware store) and then when we got to the next albergue, we washed and dried all my clothing in the hottest temperatures possible, and we then took my pack and sprayed it and anything else we could with the spray. I wore his clothes while I did this! lol. What we did fixed the problem and as gross as bedbugs sound, they really are more of a nuisance to get rid of.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Who funds those studies? Follow the money.

Government - taxpayers. Universities - taxpayers. Scientific method is the big winner. I am always a bit suspicious when retailers of eucalyptus oil present a study that, voila, eucalyptus oil repels bed bugs (and cures insomnia, impotence, and global climate change). When the Canadian and U.S. governments study permethrin to see if it will protect soldiers, I pay a bit more attention.

 

[Deepforest]

I'm sorry if I'm worrying anyone but in the interests of keeping clear of bugs, I wanted to let you know I had to move albergue yesterday. I'm in carrion and got a bed in Espiritu santu albergue. Sadly, I found a live bedbug crawling under my bed, on the floor. It was definitely a bedbug. I follow some rules. I always check everywhere, use a lifesystems bedbug sheet and sprayed sleeping bag, both recoated before every Camino, and I tie my pack up in a bin liner. Finding the bug is tough on everyone. It upsets pilgrims around me and I feel bad for that. Really they can be anywhere. Having said that pilgrims are not following simple rules. I regularly see packs lying on beds. And haven't seen a bedbug sheet apart from mine. This is my third Camino trip. I moved to Santa Maria albergue and explained what happened. They were lovely. I'd a good night last night. No trace of chinches. Espiritu Santo may only of had that one bug, but I want taking any chances. I don't want to become a carrier to other albergues coming up. Anyway, the Camino is lovely, people are kind and bugs are just bugs. I will keep following my rules and hopefully they will keep me clear of the chinhes. And if not, then its dryer time. So, always check guys, they can be anywhere, but certainly don't let it become a nightmare, it's just one of those things. Hope my info helps you make informed choices.

 

[C clearly]

Who funds those studies? Follow the money.

In fact, very few studies seem to have been done on the efficacy of any product in repelling bedbugs in the type of situation we pilgrims face. The few studies I've seen show very little benefit from either essential oils or insecticides when applied in advance to fabric. Each of us has to make an educated guess or risk assessment, and decide what precautions to take.

"Big pharma" isn't making claims about bed bug prevention so there's no money to follow in this discussion.

The fact that an individual used a purple sleeping bag for 1000 nights and was not bitten does not prove that purple repels bedbugs.

retailers of eucalyptus oil present a study

The problem really is that they don't present a study. They just make an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[C clearly]

I'm sorry if I'm worrying anyone but in the interests of keeping clear of bugs, I wanted to let you know I had to move albergue yesterday. I'm in carrion and got a bed in Espiritu santu albergue. Sadly, I found a live bedbug crawling under my bed, on the floor. It was definitely a bedbug. I follow some rules. I always check everywhere, use a lifesystems bedbug sheet and sprayed sleeping bag, both recoated before every Camino, and I tie my pack up in a bin liner. Finding the bug is tough on everyone. It upsets pilgrims around me and I feel bad for that. Really they can be anywhere. Having said that pilgrims are not following simple rules. I regularly see packs lying on beds. And haven't seen a bedbug sheet apart from mine. This is my third Camino trip. I moved to Santa Maria albergue and explained what happened. They were lovely. I'd a good night last night. No trace of chinches. Espiritu Santo may only of had that one bug, but I want taking any chances. I don't want to become a carrier to other albergues coming up. Anyway, the Camino is lovely, people are kind and bugs are just bugs. I will keep following my rules and hopefully they will keep me clear of the chinhes. And if not, then its dryer time. So, always check guys, they can be anywhere, but certainly don't let it become a nightmare, it's just one of those things. Hope my info helps you make informed choices.

This is the best approach possible.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I'll say it again (although somewhat different to ease some sensibilities):
Here is an earth friendly natural option to permethrin:
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils (that new age stuff--that has been used longer than manmade concoctions)

Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water

Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.

A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.

New info: I spent the last several weeks in the tropics and used only lavender oil to repel mosquitos. Works amazingly well.

Buen (bug-free) Camino

I'm so happy you had a bug free tropical vacation. Maybe tropical mosquitos don't like lavender? I think Spanish bedbugs must like lavender, though, because I can't tell you how many pilgrims I've met, covered in bedbug bites, who sadly exclaimed, "But I used lavender oil!"

I could be wrong, but I suspect if a person uses lavender oil and they come out the other end of the Camino with no bedbug bites, chances are they never encountered bedbugs to begin with. I have not met many who said, "But I used permethrin," although I have met one or two, and when I questioned about HOW they used the permethrin, they used it incorrectly.

Please do not use perfumes or essential oils in the albergues. Many people today have allergies and these EO's can cause severe reactions. The oils stay on the bedsteads, mattresses, sheets and blankets and can really be horrible for others.

 

[Anniesantiago]

[QUOTE="C clearly, post: 393055, member: 1589"

The fact that an individual used a purple sleeping bag for 1000 nights and was not bitten does not prove that purple repels bedbugs.


The problem really is that they don't present a study. They just make an unsubstantiated claim.[/QUOTE]

This is mostly true.
I still say the best way to avoid bedbugs is to know what to look for and to avoid them when you see signs they've been there.

 

[Anniesantiago]

If you are thinking of spraying with permethrin, and you are a pet owner, you should know it is highly toxic to cats and fish.
http://icatcare.org/permethrin/owner-info
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html

No, you should never spray your cat with permethrin.
You should spray the outside of your sleeping bag and the outside of your backpack, if you're going to spray anything. And you should do the spraying outdoors in a well-ventilated area.

 

[Anniesantiago]

And, at the risk of beating a dead bed bug, I am sensitive to several of those essential oils and, if a lot of people were spraying it around, I'd have to go sleep somewhere else to avoid an asthma attack.

You and I both!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Nobody has allergic reactions to this stuff?

I'm probably one of the most sensitive persons in the world to chemicals and once permethrin is dry, it doesn't bother me at all. There is no scent.

By the way, if you cannot find Sawyers, you can find permethrin in ANY farm supply or veterinary supply store. It is used for farm animals and their pens. You buy it concentrated and the directions are on the bottle. You don't need much. Mix with water and put in a spray bottle. One small bottle is enough for several people.

 

[LesBrass]

Thanks @LesBrass... I was also thinking of putting it in a freezer when I get home in case of any stowaways. Hopefully freezing won't damage the down - or maybe this is a crazy idea?!

I put my bag and anything I couldn't wash in the garage over winter... it can get cold in this part of France (-10) so i felt that this could destroy any hangers on

 

[cosan]

Thank you for advice. I start camino in SJPP on July 1st so will be on the alert.

 

[cosan]

Read it here : http://www.caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/2011/06/dont-let-bedbugs-bite.html

Thank you, this was a fun read but very helpful

 

[kelleymac]

Yes, and that's why you unpack your backpack in the bathtub when you get home - and put everything into the washer/dryer. Unwashable stuff can be put in the freezer for three days.

What do you do with your pack?

 

[Lmsundaze]

A bit off topic, but it is a FACT that Mexican mosquitos love lavender.

 

[BrienC]

A bit off topic, but it is a FACT that Mexican mosquitos love lavender.

That was not our experience. Maybe Yucatan mosquitos are different;-)

 

[Lmsundaze]

That was not our experience. Maybe Yucatan mosquitos are different;-)

Well, maybe, I was in San Miguel de Allende. But also perhaps I am tastier than you

 

[alipilgrim]

If permethrin is available in a 100% concentrate, I wonder if it would not be a bad idea to take a small 2-3 ounce bottle of it from your home country to the Camino, and then if you need to respray your gear along the way, all you'd need to do would be to find an empty spray bottle?

 

[C clearly]

[QUOTE="C clearly, post: 393055, member: 1589"
I still say the best way to avoid bedbugs is to know what to look for and to avoid them when you see signs they've been there.

I wish that were true. Maybe I need to study harder. But they seem to find me easier than I find them!

 

[JillGat]

Empirical? Definition: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. Hence, by my observation and experience, not the logic that because a chemical company said so, I believe in what I say here. From an earlier response: I've not used permethrin or any other of those formulas in the last 15 years and travel extensively to (what are considered) third world countries and not one bed bug bite

Well, that's not how the term is generally used. But, if you prefer, evidence-based data as opposed to anecdote, which is what you are providing. I have traveled and lived in third world countries for many years too, and have not been bitten by bed bugs. And I *didn't* use essential oils *or* pesticides. Doesn't prove anything but luck. We could, however look at Dengue and Malaria rates in places where DEET and other repellents are not available. Or - if you want to go there - deaths from cholera, measles, gastroenteritis and a multitude of other diseases where there is little access to antibiotics and/or vaccines. Until these "manmade" "chemical" measures were developed, about a third of children died before their third year of life. Natural = better is a ridiculous notion. Arsenic, lead, poison oak and rattlesnake venom are natural. I was an epidemiologist and worked as a clinical researcher for many years. There are safeguards to be sure that many studies are not biased by corporate profit motive. It's not hard to find them.

All that being said, even permethrin don't prove to be that effective against bedbugs in clinical trials. In many areas (I don't know about Spain), they have developed resistance to most repellents. Which brings us back to the importance of inspecting any bed and surroundings before you lie down.

Clinical studies usually have to disclose any conflict of interest. Here is one of a number of studies I found on essential oils and bedbugs: file:///C:/Users/PC/Downloads/insects-05-00849.pdf (if you can't open that, do a search on "Efficacy of an Essential Oil-Based Pesticide for Controlling Bed Bug (Cimex lectularius) Infestations in Apartment Buildings")

 

[Anniesantiago]

The best idea I heard was putting the bedstead legs in little cups full of pesticide or oil or something to kill them before they could crawl onto the bed. They will, however, crawl up the wall and fall on the bed, if they're hungry.
Persistent little buggers!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The best idea I heard was putting the bedstead legs in little cups full of pesticide or oil or something to kill them before they could crawl onto the bed. They will, however, crawl up the wall and fall on the bed, if they're hungry.
Persistent little buggers!

When I worked in Ukraine for a year in the early 90s we had tow things to keep roach like creatures away: borric acid mixed in with hard boiled egg and placed in dishes the feet of the bed would sit in. For keeping them away from the refrigerator, couch, table, we would use something we called "Chinese chalk". It was a white substance molded in the shape of a blackboard writing peice of chalk. We would use it to mark an area around the onject or zone we didn't want thecreepy crawlers to come into. We called it Chinese Chalk because it came in a blue cardboard box with Mandarin/Cantonese writing on it, and came from China, along with the infamous Chinese blankets.

Never thought I would ever miss the stuff, but thinking about it it would ne great on the Camino.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I wish that were true. Maybe I need to study harder. But they seem to find me easier than I find them!

And the fact that they were once there does not mean the place has not been fumigated over and over since.

 

[Yoginee]

Yes. I hear it's really nice. Have been on camino twice, no bugs... Bed bug sheet used, sleeping bag treated, mattress and surrounds checked before I unpack, and bags off the bed. Simple steps, but it can't hurt to keep them up. Having said all that I think it's fair to be a little reluctant given the original pilgrims message. It's an awful nuisance for all concerned.

How do you check for bed bugs? What are the signs to look out for?

 

[VNwalking]

Back to the OP...so just an update: I was there at the Burgos municipal 3 nights ago and encountered no bedbugs and heard no complaints about any.
The only disturbance I had was a drunk peregrina who woke me up saying I was in her bunk (I wasn't). Next time I'll find the paroquial near the Cathedral. I tried again this time but got tired of walking in circles...

 

[HeidiL]

What do you do with your pack?

I put it in a garbage sack out on our balcony for several weeks, then take it back in, figuring that any eggs must have hatched, and inspect it thoroughly. Then I dunk it in the bath-tub with hot water and soap. (If our freezer were bigger, I'd go for that instead, 72 hours is supposed to be enough to kill the little buggers.)

 

[Anniesantiago]

. We called it Chinese Chalk because it came in a blue cardboard box with Mandarin/Cantonese writing on it, and came from China, along with the infamous Chinese blankets.

Never thought I would ever miss the stuff, but thinking about it it would ne great on the Camino.

I did a search on Chinese Chalk and came up with this interesting blog about a guy fighting bedbugs and the techniques he used:

http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/documenting-my-bedbug-experience

 

[Anniesantiago]

How do you check for bed bugs? What are the signs to look out for?

http://caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/2011/06/dont-let-bedbugs-bite.html

 

[Anniesantiago]

I put it in a garbage sack out on our balcony for several weeks, then take it back in, figuring that any eggs must have hatched, and inspect it thoroughly. Then I dunk it in the bath-tub with hot water and soap. (If our freezer were bigger, I'd go for that instead, 72 hours is supposed to be enough to kill the little buggers.)

Your home freezer may not be cold enough:

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/isnt-cool-freezing-bedbugs-may-not-kill-them-after-all-2D11717314