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I watched the attendant at the Rates albergue tell a couple that it is the policy of all “official”
association albergue to not accept people who transfer luggage. This albergue does not accept luggage transfer at the albergue. They are delivered to a coffee shop instead.
The attendant did accept these people but only after a fairly long lecture. I have experienced less tolerance on this route from volunteer’s at albergue’s than I have on the French route.
Note: When I talked to these folks afterwards they said the reason they transfered there backpacks was because they had a 22 mile rough day getting out of Porto and wanted a day to recover.
Who determines what a "valid" reason would be? Does age qualify? What about medical devices too heavy to carry? Seems like a slippery slope when people start to decide who has a valid reason for something and who does not.someone with a day pack deprived them of their bed without a valid reason.
I am deeply troubled by the notion that bed space or any other type of judgement call on my walk and the way in which I must complete it is in the hands of those who can so easily decide whether or not I "qualify
There's a lot of pressure for albergue beds on the Camino Portugués at the moment. I know everyone has different views on this, but I'm inclined to think that those who carry their packs should have priority in the bed race. There are plenty of private options (including reasonably-priced hostels) for those wishing to use the bag carrying services.
I say this having witnessed the crowds on this route a few weeks ago, and the large numbers of low-budget pilgrims setting off at 5am to secure their place in the albergue queue. It would seem very unfair (to me) if someone with a day pack deprived them of their bed without a valid reason.
The traditionalist albergues argue that it is unfair that those who actively seek to minimise the effort they expend end up having a marked advantage when beds are scarce. Those willing to use motor transport can also more easily move on to alternative accommodation. Those for whom walking the whole route is integral to their pilgrimage find that far harder.
As far as idividual peregrinos are concerned, presumably the hospis have the discretion to welcome injured, indisposed, or late peregrinos
Ah, Laurie, that wasn't necessary to mention. I guess it affected you more than me but thanks anywayI find it hard to come to a clear line in this debate, but one thing that I definitely think is unfair — people who have their packs transferred, for whatever reason, should not be able to get beds by having their transported pack used to save them a bed. This happened to Kinky when I was in the La Robla albergue. A taxi full of backpacks arrived, there were 12 or 13, and the keeper of the backpacks, who was a member of the group and taking a day in a taxi, “claimed” all the remaining beds for his group, putting sleeping bags, etc on all the beds. Kinky arrived way before the members of the group arrived, and he had to go to a pensión. And then I never saw him again on this camino, so maybe that adds to my negative assessment of those people.
This kind of policy is an effective way of filtering out the organized tours who use albergues to house their clients.
I find it hard to come to a clear line in this debate, but one thing that I definitely think is unfair — people who have their packs transferred, for whatever reason, should not be able to get beds by having their transported pack used to save them a bed. This happened to Kinky when I was in the La Robla albergue. A taxi full of backpacks arrived, there were 12 or 13, and the keeper of the backpacks, who was a member of the group and taking a day in a taxi, “claimed” all the remaining beds for his group, putting sleeping bags, etc on all the beds. Kinky arrived way before the members of the group arrived, and he had to go to a pensión. And then I never saw him again on this camino, so maybe that adds to my negative assessment of those people.
A taxi full of backpacks arrived, there were 12 or 13, and the keeper of the backpacks, who was a member of the group and taking a day in a taxi, “claimed” all the remaining beds for his group, putting sleeping bags, etc on all the beds.
Exactly. Doesn't matter if I was the "loser" in this situation but muni albergues don't/shouldn't operate on reservation basis.I am assuming from the way you tell the story that this group did not have reservations and the albergue worked on a "first come first served" basis. If so that is an appalling situation. I feel quite strongly that people should be required to check in individually and in person - no one should be allowed to race ahead and make a block booking for a group in an albergue which does not accept reservations.
If it is, I would fully support it.
But sadly any 'filtering' system might also filter out those who have legitimate reasons to use luggage transfer, age, health, injury or whatever.
But sadly any 'filtering' system might also filter out those who have legitimate reasons to use luggage transfer, age, health, injury or whatever.
Maybe but not necessarily. This is where discernment on the part of the hospi comes in. And it's pretty obvious when a group is involved, like the one @KinkyOne and @peregrina2000 are describing.But sadly any 'filtering' system might also filter out those who have legitimate reasons to use luggage transfer, age, health, injury or whatever.
Ditto....Hence my desire to move on from the CF and walk other more remote Caminos; that don't have baggage services
Albergues were originally meant for those who cannot afford alternative accommodation
I agree that La Robla albergue would be perfect pickings for a selfish group as above, as it (when I stayed in 2015) there was no ‘in house’ hospi to see that fairness prevailed. First there if locked , phones for the key and hospi comes and explains all and leaves. So I can see Kinki was too much of a gentleman to argue the point with that group. He shouldn’t have had to in usual situation. I’m sure they would not have got away with this the whole camino though.A taxi full of backpacks arrived, there were 12 or 13, and the keeper of the backpacks, who was a member of the group and taking a day in a taxi, “claimed” all the remaining beds for his group, putting sleeping bags, etc on all the beds. Kinky arrived way before the members of the group arrived, and he had to go to a pensión.
@dfunghi , your health situation and wish and determination to walk the Camino is the border point at which we are all happy that luggage service exists at all.Well I guess my weighing the decision of whether or not to use a service has now shifted to not. I hope to walk my Camino in peace and w/o fear of judgement. I had planned to send my CPAP and the clothes for after the Camino ahead each day and carry (in my 38L bag) all I need for the walk itself absent the very heavy CPAP (actually it is the power supply that is so darn big and heavy). I had also thought since I need to arrive no later than 15 days after I leave Porto that I would rather use transport for last few K when needed rather than an entire stage if I get too far behind. Allowing 15 days for what should be a 12 day walk means I will likely be fine but either way I suppose now I have to add this to my decision making.
My thoughts of walking the Camino began in 1995 when on our honeymoon we were in P D Lima and learned about it. In 2000 on my first visit to Santander I promised myself "someday". In 2019 that day will finally arrive. My passion for doing this now was never driven by how easy it has become, it was driven by age (I am getting old) and a realization that sometimes in life you just have to do it and stop wishing or dreaming about it.
I guess it comes down to if a person is on a pilgrimage or simply wants a walking, trekking adventure. I would hate to have to be the one to decide who qualified for which and would hope the walker themselves would know and make arrangements accordingly. My Camino is a pilgrimage, for many personal reasons, and I do not expect nor do I want it to be easy, but I do not want to make it so hard I can not complete it. A 38L pack filled is too heavy for me to go 12 miles a day. At least it is right now. I have purchased a very lightweight bag and a 2L bladder. I do not expect to have more than one change of clothes and a few socks / underwear changes along with some outerwear. I suppose I could find a way to buy the $600 portable CPAP and also send Ivar my extra bag on arrival. I had thought I may need to swap a few things in and out as I went along.
Whatever I decide I will likely keep it private and hope if I do need to avail myself on a day or two of public transportation (to complete a stage) or luggage transfer I will not be shunned, frowned upon or in any way demeaned. My pilgrimage will be hard enough w/o adding other's judgement on to it.
I am not doing this to collect a document at the end that would maybe not fully reflect my effort, I am doing this because it has intrigued me for decades and because I want to do things in my life that feel important to me. I am not going with anyone, this is a solo journey that in fact began in August when my training and dieting began.
For the record, I think what happened to Kinky is deplorable and we have all seen these types of events both on and off the Camino. Some people just feel and act entitled.
Peace all,
D
I would be ok with that too and plan my stops accordingly. Ask me next spring when cyborg turtle is on the NorteQuite agree @Bradypus. Hence my desire to move on from the CF and walk other more remote Caminos; that don't have baggage services
I see the point you are making. When luggage transport services began to appear the argument was often that it would open up the Camino to those less able. Little to object to in that. The idea that it would rapidly become a labour-saving convenience for the fit but unwilling was little mentioned. Now it feels as if luggage transport has almost become the default position and those of us who decline to use it are an endangered species
For Camino dinosaurs like myself the proliferation of baggage transport services, specialist travel agencies offering readymade packages, booking.com and so on are all symptoms of the commercialisation and Disneyfication of the Camino and destroys the essential simplicity that pilgrimage on the Caminos used to have: pick up your pack, walk, find a bed, wash, eat, sleep, repeat until you reach the end! Where is the spontaneity if you have to choose your destination every morning and label your bag for pickup? Where is the room for serendipity? The satisfaction of self-reliance? The trust that it will probably work out ok - and the willingness to deal with things falling apart when it doesn't without whingeing about it? ;-)
Who determines what a "valid" reason would be? Does age qualify? What about medical devices too heavy to carry? Seems like a slippery slope when people start to decide who has a valid reason for something and who does not.
Let me qualify this by saying I have yet to walk a camino and have heard of the "race for a bed" aspect of it many times by folks that have walked it and many here that have written about it. Still, it is not for anyone else to say who and who is not a pilgrim and whatever reasons that walker has to make their pilgrimage or how.
I watched the attendant at the Rates albergue tell a couple that it is the policy of all “official”
association albergue to not accept people who transfer luggage. This albergue does not accept luggage transfer at the albergue. They are delivered to a coffee shop instead.
The attendant did accept these people but only after a fairly long lecture. I have experienced less tolerance on this route from volunteer’s at albergue’s than I have on the French route.
Note: When I talked to these folks afterwards they said the reason they transfered there backpacks was because they had a 22 mile rough day getting out of Porto and wanted a day to recover.
I never accepted a ride. I wanted the certificate of distance for the VdlP; 1,000 km felt symbolic, somehow. My four siblings, all brothers, brag about it for me when I meet their friends. I am glad that I accepted the offer of bag transport for two days. I learned that necessary self-care is more important than bragging rights.
Is this type of "sorting out" of who gets a bed and who does not also apply if I was walking all day and as it got too dark I took a bus the last 3 -5K? DO I need to stealthily depart bus a few blocks away and be sure no one sees me?
If you can afford a tour with bus support, luggage transport, and multiple guides/drivers you can surely afford a hotel.
One can financially afford having luggage transport, may not have the physical stamina to carry his/her backpack for the pilgrimage.
@Bradypusit was inspirational to see the energy and commitment (and also the speed) of someone considerably richer in years and shorter in legs than myselfIt gave me hope that despite some wear and tear I may be able to do the same for a while yet. If accepting a kind offer of help now and again makes that possible then so be it.
My husband and I are old in years (79) but young in spirit and we were thankful for the luggage transfer system. We had no problems at all where ever we stayed....a couple of albergue owners even carried our transfered bags to our beds ....we must have looked pretty bad. The transfer system does provide work for the locals so it’s not all bad.I watched the attendant at the Rates albergue tell a couple that it is the policy of all “official”
association albergue to not accept people who transfer luggage. This albergue does not accept luggage transfer at the albergue. They are delivered to a coffee shop instead.
The attendant did accept these people but only after a fairly long lecture. I have experienced less tolerance on this route from volunteer’s at albergue’s than I have on the French route.
Note: When I talked to these folks afterwards they said the reason they transfered there backpacks was because they had a 22 mile rough day getting out of Porto and wanted a day to recover.
@Bradypus
Well, ok. But not that much "richer in years".
That was a very good yearI am a 1962 vintage model.
You people who judge someone because they ship their pack ahead are just such a true Pilgrim. What you see is not always the whole picture. So this 70 y/o lady with fat legs, had 2 heart attack’s with 4 stents, 4 leg and knee surgeries will just keep walking along with her day pack, but don’t worry I won’t take your municipal albergue bed. Please don’t label and judge people you know nothing about. Each is walking the Way their way.
Please don't label and judge people on this thread. There has been no suggestion at all, that people with needs should not get appropriate help and consideration.You people who judge someone because they ship their pack ahead are just such a true Pilgrim... Please don’t label and judge people you know nothing about.
But why do people do this? It's a daily 'tax' on the journey, there's always a risk of suitcases (!) going astray, plus what other folks have said about being limited to arrive at the place where your stuff is being transported to. Also suitcases can be sent to Ivar or (usually) the destination accommodation for safekeeping while walking. I will never forget the party of French women who were staying at Casa Albergue de Jesus - not exactly five star accommodation - trundling their very large suitcases down the stairs. But oh my what a contrast with my own clean but dishevelled appearance as they had appeared with freshly coiffeured hair and newly pressed clothes.On the Camino inglés this Summer ...View attachment 46857
Reminded me of David - a young Italian man I met on the descent from Grand Saint Bernard pass on the Via Francigena carrying a huge pack. We shared a room a couple of nights later. Before he went for his shower he pulled 2kg of dried rice and a heavy cotton towelling dressing gown from his rucksack. In August. He reckoned his pack weighed 17kg and I believed it. The next day he gave up and went home with knee trouble. I'll settle for "dishevelled" any day.I will never forget the party of French women who were staying at Casa Albergue de Jesus - not exactly five star accommodation - trundling their very large suitcases down the stairs. But oh my what a contrast with my own clean but dishevelled appearance as they had appeared with freshly coiffeured hair and newly pressed clothes.
I think the discussion gets often so confusing because many aspects are mixed together. For example, according to Gronze.com, the albergue Casa de Jesús in Villar de Mazarife (perhaps the albergue in question?) is "orientado a los peregrinos" but it is "not exclusively for pilgrims" and it also has several double rooms whereas the albergue in Ratos is exclusively for pilgrims. That makes a difference. Only-on-foot and only-with-my-backpack pilgrims may wish that it isn't so but it is.I will never forget the party of French women who were staying at Casa Albergue de Jesus - not exactly five star accommodation - trundling their very large suitcases down the stairs. But oh my what a contrast with my own clean but dishevelled appearance as they had appeared with freshly coiffeured hair and newly pressed clothes.
I watched the attendant at the Rates albergue tell a couple that it is the policy of all “official”
association albergue to not accept people who transfer luggage. This albergue does not accept luggage transfer at the albergue. They are delivered to a coffee shop instead.
The attendant did accept these people but only after a fairly long lecture. I have experienced less tolerance on this route from volunteer’s at albergue’s than I have on the French route.
Note: When I talked to these folks afterwards they said the reason they transfered there backpacks was because they had a 22 mile rough day getting out of Porto and wanted a day to recover.
One can financially afford having luggage transport, may not have the physical stamina to carry his/her backpack for the pilgrimage.
Of course. If you read what carefully, you'll see that we aren't talking about that at all, nor criticizing those who use pack transfer because of medical issues. The large supported tour groups are another matter. It's fine that they are there, but IMHO they should stay in hotels and leave the albergues for others.You people who judge someone because they ship their pack ahead are just such a true Pilgrim. What you see is not always the whole picture. So this 70 y/o lady with fat legs, had 2 heart attack’s with 4 stents, 4 leg and knee surgeries will just keep walking along with her day pack, but don’t worry I won’t take your municipal albergue bed. Please don’t label and judge people you know nothing about. Each is walking the Way their way.
Exactly. @NualaOC said it perfectly.It it very important to understand that no one has posted any negative comment directed toward anyone who may have a physical or medical restriction.
Where are you now, Dave? @David was saying something similar. Hopefully once you get to the meseta, all that will thin out and it will feel more like the camino. Ultreia and buen camino!There have been a lot of people on Frances right now. A lot of daypckers and bike tour groups (not teams or local cycle groups). It is a lot different feeling and concentration of daypacks and bikers than I saw last year.
I’m in Carrión right now. It has been like this since after Pamplona. Out of St Jean I never would have guessed about the number of daypacks and bikes. From conversation a lot I’ve talked with started from Pamplona.Of course. If you read what carefully, you'll see that we aren't talking about that at all, nor criticizing those who use pack transfer because of medical issues. The large supported tour groups are another matter. It's fine that they are there, but IMHO they should stay in hotels and leave the albergues for others.
Exactly. @NualaOC said it perfectly.
Where are you now, Dave? @David was saying something similar. Hopefully once you get to the meseta, all that will thin out and it will feel more like the camino. Ultreia and buen camino!
I watched the attendant at the Rates albergue tell a couple that it is the policy of all “official”
association albergue to not accept people who transfer luggage. This albergue does not accept luggage transfer at the albergue. They are delivered to a coffee shop instead.
The attendant did accept these people but only after a fairly long lecture. I have experienced less tolerance on this route from volunteer’s at albergue’s than I have on the French route.
Note: When I talked to these folks afterwards they said the reason they transfered there backpacks was because they had a 22 mile rough day getting out of Porto and wanted a day to recover.
The albergue in Rabanal has this policy because they are a ' donativo'. They do not want to unfairly take custom away from the other albergues so refusing to accept backpacks sent ahead sends pilgrims who want to do this to the other albergues. It is in the spirit of good neighbourliness in the village. They will however make an exception for pilgrims 70 and over.It is not unusual for albergues not to accept transfered luggage or the people who transfer luggage. It's just within recent years that it has become more acceptable on the Frances route in almost all albergues, but there still are some, such as the one in Rabanal del Camino, who will not let you stay if you transfer your luggage. It is a pilgrimage and they expect a pilgrim to carry their pack, I guess.
I am a little puzzled by this question. As you have explained above you have specific needs which limit your ability to walk with a pack. Most people walking the Caminos these days seem to be walking daily stages somewhere around the 20km mark and finish their walking in the early afternoon. Given that you already recognise your limitations why would you plan your daily stages with distances so great that you think you may still be 5km short of your destination by nightfall - several hours after the majority of walkers have stopped and incidentally taken up most of the available beds? Are you tied to a fixed schedule which means that you must walk such ambitious stages? If your time is limited would it not be a better plan to start from a point closer to Santiago and walk shorter stages which you are more confident will be within your own ability?
I find it hard to come to a clear line in this debate, but one thing that I definitely think is unfair — people who have their packs transferred, for whatever reason, should not be able to get beds by having their transported pack used to save them a bed. This happened to Kinky when I was in the La Robla albergue. A taxi full of backpacks arrived, there were 12 or 13, and the keeper of the backpacks, who was a member of the group and taking a day in a taxi, “claimed” all the remaining beds for his group, putting sleeping bags, etc on all the beds. Kinky arrived way before the members of the group arrived, and he had to go to a pensión. And then I never saw him again on this camino, so maybe that adds to my negative assessment of those people.
Depends on the person behind the desk. It happened to me..injured...and I will leave it at that.The Refugio Gaucelmo's "no vehicle support" policy is very clear in making an exception for those with genuine injuries or illness. I think it fairly unlikely that any albergue will refuse point blank to accommodate a pilgrim in serious medical need who arrives by vehicle.
Maybe, or maybe it's just getting diluted by a lot of other elements. It's still out there, and is most obvious on the less-walked routes.This thread has saddened me but I can't explain why. I am 70, recently completed SJPP to Muxía and Finisterra entirely on foot and carrying my own burden. I saw many different approaches and did not judge. But the defensiveness coming through the thread has me wondering if the sense of pilgrimage is now in the past.
@GraemeHallThis thread has saddened me but I can't explain why. I am 70, recently completed SJPP to Muxía and Finisterra entirely on foot and carrying my own burden. I saw many different approaches and did not judge. But the defensiveness coming through the thread has me wondering if the sense of pilgrimage is now in the past.
Sorry.
The albergue in Rabanal has this policy because they are a ' donativo'. They do not want to unfairly take custom away from the other albergues so refusing to accept backpacks sent ahead sends pilgrims who want to do this to the other albergues. It is in the spirit of good neighbourliness in the village. They will however make an exception for pilgrims 70 and over.
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