Camino Frances - lite and fast ?!

[hampshire!tim]

[CLARIFICATION for later readers, entirely unnecessary in itself but regrettably made necessary by initial hostile off-topic responses : this is a genuine enquiry related to genuine "pilgrimage" journey.]

What are the quicker walking (not cycling) Camino Frances that's been done / do people here know about ? I'm not interested in record setting or competition, just wondering what has been achieved by others and is therefore in the realm of being achieved.

I've done CF before and taken 35 days over it. And done Ingles 5 days and Finisterre 4 days. I am considering doing CF again but quickly. Yes, I know I will miss certain dimensions of the adventure (but may have enjoyed them before), and yet will gain others. So no need to tell me I would be missing out doing this - I understand that I will be ! ;-)

I am wondering if it is viable to do it in 14 days, e.g. 60km p/d average, less at the beginning if starting from SJPdP, more later to compensate, e.g. on Meseta perhaps. It would mean 5km/hour average for 12hours p/d, or 6km/hour for 10 hours. I'm thinking that this average might be possible (except 1st day to Roncesvalles), accepting it will vary from 4km/hr to 8km/hr based on which section, part of day etc. With sufficient daylight (september/october ?), this seems manageable .... in theory.

Big factors here are :-
- go solo
- 4kg 15litre-20 litre day sack excluding water (not full pack as previously done with 10kg/40litre and 15kg/60litre)
- trek shoes not boots
- no rest days (rest at end in SdC)
- no blisters/foot problems
- done CF before so some familiarity with landscape & route
- normal rain/heat, nothing extreme
- undecided about with/without poles

Seems possible in theory but I wonder what extra considerations this kind of approach/pace generates, and what challenges people who have done similar may have encountered in doing this

In case people need it for their responses, relevant info might be : aged 56, 171cm, 86kg, speak some Spanish, no budget constraints (e.g. if I need to stay in casa rural because no available albergue), already got and used all kit/clothing. Previous maximum : 40km p/d. And no, no specific prior experience of this pace but may do some test stages (and there's always got to be a first time for everything)

I guess someone might reply with : FFS WHY?!! That's not really for discussion. Suffice to say my personal circumstances have set a fire burning which requires me to do the journey within certain constraints. A mix of motives : no need of sporting exercise, but certainly lack of more time, desire for personal challenge (related to my spiritual state), desire for different Camino experience (not more of same), prove certain things (not athletics-based) to myself etc etc. But that's not really the discussion. I'm more interested in "has it been done/can it be done".

Interested to hear on-topic comments and opinions - thank you.

I did do a search for relevant info - didn't really find any - apologies if I missed them - pointers to other threads gratefully received.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Jennifer Anderson has reported the Fastest Known Time, 9d 5h 29m, set Feb. 26 - March 7, 2011

 

[Rebekah Scott]

This is an abuse. Next up: Olympic Hockey match at the Hagia Sofia mosque.
I know it's 500 km of public places anyone has the right to walk on, but the Camino de Santiago is so much more than a race track, or a backdrop for your "personal best" physical challenges.
WIth all due respect for your past caminos, I wish you and other athletes would take your Achievements and Fastest Knowns to some other World Heritage Site. This is totally NOT what a pilgrimage is about. The Camino is for pilgrims, on a pilgrimage.
There are plenty of sports arenas and long-distance paths and roads out there. Why must you use a sacred site for your race against yourself?

 

[domigee]

"I am wondering if it is viable to do it in 14 days, e.g. 60km p/d average, "

I am sure it is, anything's possible but....have YOU walked 60k a day, every day for say...2 weeks?

 

[domigee]

@Rebekah Scott you take words out of my mouth... I was going to add "and why would you want to do this on the Camino????"

 

[hampshire!tim]

This is an abuse. Next up: Olympic Hockey match at the Hagia Sofia mosque.
I know it's 500 km of public places anyone has the right to walk on, but the Camino de Santiago is so much more than a race track, or a backdrop for your "personal best" physical challenges.
WIth all due respect for your past caminos, I wish you and other athletes would take your Achievements and Fastest Knowns to some other World Heritage Site. This is totally NOT what a pilgrimage is about. The Camino is for pilgrims, on a pilgrimage.
There are plenty of sports arenas and long-distance paths and roads out there. Why must you use a sacred site for your race against yourself?

Respect your views Rebekah, please respect mine - pilgrimages take many forms - I am very quiet and modest and supportive of the Camino - logical extension of your position is we should ban cyclists and many others. But your views up to you.

 

[hampshire!tim]

@Rebekah Scott you take words out of my mouth... I was going to add "and why would you want to do this on the Camino????"

you and Rebekah read my post and seem to think only about the "sports" performance. I did not claim this in any way. In fact specifically said not interested in records.

But thanks for the feedback.

 

[domigee]

You haven't answered my question Have you ever walked 60k every day for a length of time?

 

[hampshire!tim]

You haven't answered my question Have you ever walked 60k every day for a length of time?

Actually I answered it in my original post. No, but first time for everything. I had never walked 800kms in 35 days when I did my first Camino.

 

[wayfarer]

@supersullivan did it in 23 days as far as I recall.

 

[naplesdon]

I did it in a car in one day!

 

[C clearly]

it will vary from 4km/hr to 8km/hr

Have you tried walking as fast as you can for 4 hours, to see how far you get?

 

[domigee]

Actually I answered it in my original post.

Yes, my mistake.
I asked because I belong to a walkers' group here who do challenges, walking long distances, sometimes 100 miles... They train an awful lot! Also, they do not carry a backpack and there are various stops planned along the route, manned by members who provide refreshments, help etc...
My longest walk was about 51k - because I HAD TO, I hasten to add. I was also extremely fit then, having walked everyday for 4 months or thereabout.... My advice is that it isn't to be taken lightly!!
Of course I am therefore wondering why on earth anyone would wish to do this on the Camino, of all places but....each to their own I guess

 

[Isca-camigo]

I met a guy who walked from SJPdP to Finisterre in 17 days. The tip he gave me, which I didn't really want, was shorten your breaks from half an hour to 15 mins. What I would add from periods of long walking is that it is my feet start to feel unbearable, so I would look at some extra absorbent foot soles, like runners use, they would have the advantage of being light. You want some material that you can wear in hot and cold and not have too wash every day, merino wool is my choice. I bought an ultra light down duvet from PHD, under 300gms and it is warm even in winter, it has a water repellant shell. My girlfriend doesn't wear waterproof, and I think it works better than waterproof, her feet don't get damp, they keep cool, and if it rains they usually are dry soon after it stops raining, but non waterproof footwear are usually lighter. I have seen a few people who have walked super light, you should be aiming for no more than 20 litres, and means it been ruthless with what you take and work under the assumption if you need something you can find it but not maybe straight away. My last piece of advice which I know you don't want, is dont do it, walk half the distance, enjoy it, explore the etapas, go of route and investigate places that you can see, let each day be your guide. But whatever you decide to do.
Buen Camino

Mike, Exeter.

 

[Bradypus]

I don't want to get into the argument about whether or not the OP's idea is a good one from a spiritual/religious/philosophical point of view. As a man of very similar age, height and weight who likes to walk long daily stages I would like make a few comments on the physical aspects though.

There is a huge difference between occasionally walking up to 40km in a day and expecting to walk 60km per day on a regular basis. On my first walk along the Camino Frances I took 23 days - averaging about 33km/day. For me 40km in one day is a reasonable goal in good weather and over moderate terrain. One which I can repeat for several days in a row without injury. On rare occasions I will walk a 50+km day if I feel in the mood and time/weather/ground permit. I do feel those extra 10km though and I very rarely walk two 50+km days in succession. I walked two consecutive days of roughly 50km recently in Sweden and Norway when cold winds and lack of shelter made day time pauses difficult. However, I am very likely to feel muscle and joint stiffness the next morning which will take some time in gentle warm-up walking to ease. I find it difficult even to imagine walking 60km per day for multiple days. Even with an average daily distance in the 35-40km range I find there is a cumulative tiring effect which means that after 4 or 5 days a short rest day in the 20-25km range becomes a near-necessity.

The well-known and hugely experienced marathon walker John Merrill suggests that around 320km per week is about the limit of endurance over long-distances. Having shared his experience of stress fractures in the foot during very long distance walks I tend to agree. There is a serious risk of stress fractures if a person moves too quickly into a pattern of repeated daily long-distance walking without allowing the feet time to adapt. That means a slow and gradual transition. I'm sure that many of us have found that out the hard way with a far less ambitious schedule than the OP is imagining.

 

[hampshire!tim]

My last piece of advice which I know you don't want, is dont do it, walk half the distance, enjoy it, explore the etapas, go of route and investigate places that you can see, let each day be your guide. But whatever you decide to do.
Buen Camino

Appreciate the detailed advice and also the general feedback, Mike. Have kinda done the more enjoyable approach, and now I have a devotional drive to do the whole thing, because of things which have happened / are happening in my life.

 

[hampshire!tim]

Thank you @Bradypus - exactly the type of feedback I was hoping would be obtained. Will definitely consider and review. Much appreciated.

 

[hampshire!tim]

This is an abuse.

I think the abuse is in your response.
Forgive me a 2nd reply, but I really feel a clarification is required.
- I didn't say it was a race, and specifically hinted otherwise (and have now clarified but shouldn't need to justify)
- There is a well established historical tradition in both christian and other religious traditions of an element of mental and physical endurance being part of the contemplative, meditative and spiritual experience and devotional outcome. I am not planning to walk either bare-foot, on my knees or with a cilice and daily flagellations in the style of 'castigo corpus meum'. But if I were, it wouldn't be your business. And if I were, would that have attracted the same response from you?
- Should I also have documented the churches and cathedrals I plan to visit, the prayers I plan to say, the reasons for them, or generally my devotional intentions? If I just wanted a sports arena, then of course I would save the time, effort and cost of travelling to the Camino.
- Do I need to explain my physical, mental and spiritual circumstances before being allowed to consider such a journey, or ask a question here?

If my original post should have included more information, then I apologise. I was merely attempting to be as succinct as possible.

You are entitled to your views, but maybe they should have done by PM. Perhaps you could consider deleting your response, and I will gladly do the same.

 

[hampshire!tim]

Thank you @domigee.
Understood, appreciate the feedback, and will definitely factor it in.

 

[hampshire!tim]

Have you tried walking as fast as you can for 4 hours, to see how far you get?

Not directly. But perhaps an idea. I have walked a reasonable amount though, including 8km p/hour rates for 2-3 hours a time. I don't think speed in itself for a single stage is a problem. I am more uncertain about the cumulative effects, as other people have been commenting ... and correctly warning me

 

[Tincatinker]

Check out Eddie Izzard's 27 Marathons in 27 Days and in particular his remark "it has changed my body".

I'm an LD hiker. Have been since wacking out the 10 Tors on Dartmoor in my teens, always coming in somewhere behind the Royal Marines. 90k in 36 hours requires some serious recovery time even for the well trained. The stresses that contiguous 60k days will put on your body may not be recoverable. I see little point in asking this forum if the proposal is viable. You should be talking to your GP, Cardiologist and some properly qualified endurance athlete trainers. They will be able to advise you on training, nutrition and in particular post-event management as your body goes into recovery.

In my opinion the Camino is not the environment for this sort of challenge. You will need guaranteed rest and nutrition. Unless you are planning to take a full back-up team as Jennifer Anderson did you are placing yourself at risk and therefore risking inconvenience to many others. If you really want to do some hard core hiking challenge try the Pennine or the Appenine Ways, with a support team. If you want to make a mark / contribution get yourself some sponsorship (the hardest challenge of all) and put the money to a meaningful cause.

 

[Kent Davis]

I will respect your goal and advance the following thoughts:
maintaining a 5mph in the terrain that you will be walking through with a weighted backpack for extended periods is probably not doable without consequences. Consequences which include dead feet, shin splints, tight calves, aching knees all of which would conspire to reduce your average mph at the least and cause you to abort in the worst case. Preparation would obviously be a huge key to developing your legs, tendons, feet to undertake this effort, so you would have to decide if you have the appropriate time and energy for this level of conditioning. The other aspect would be the nutrition necessary to burn the calories you are speaking about and all of this includes only the physical aspect.

 

[hampshire!tim]

OK, great feedback from everyone. Really appreciate the trend of the advice, and the detailed reasoning. From perspective of original question, mission definitely accomplished. Will definitely review.

Always happy to hear additional feedback. comments & suggestions. And I've probably heard enough to revise what is possible, and will re-visit how I can accomplish my (non-athletics) goals.

Thank you

 

[Castilian]

Visit a doctor specialized in sports medicine and whatever other health specialists may make sense (nutritionist...).

Jennifer Anderson has reported the Fastest Known Time, 9d 5h 29m, set Feb. 26 - March 7, 2011

In 2013, Quim Navarro (aka Steelman X) made it (to Fisterra) in 6 days 18 hours and 15 minutes. He made Roncesvalles-Santiago de Compostela in 5 days and 17 hours. His web: http://steelmanxadventure.com

Previous record from Roncesvalles to Santiago de Compostela was the one of Alfredo Uría who in 2007 made it in less than 7 days (and he was older than 65 years old by then...).

 

[beiramar]

I think it sounds like a fun idea if you are interested in such a challenge.
The advantage about the Camino Francés is that it has such a tight network of accommodation and supplies that you can walk no problem with a very light pack.

The terrain is pretty easy, but I can't even imagine walking 8km/h. That's more like jogging?
I hiked 20k in 4 hours without breaks the other day on a quite demanding trail and that felt really fast already. Was completely done afterwards though. 20km+ per day isn't for all of us.

 

[hampshire!tim]

Visit a doctor specialized in sports medicine and whatever other health specialists may make sense (nutritionist...).



In 2013, Quim Navarro (aka Steelman X) made it (to Fisterra) in 6 days 18 hours and 15 minutes. He made Roncesvalles-Santiago de Compostela in 5 days and 17 hours. His web: http://steelmanxadventure.com

Previous record from Roncesvalles to Santiago de Compostela was the one of Alfredo Uría who in 2007 made it in less than 7 days (and he was older than 65 years old by then...).

Astonishing !! I certainly won't be attempting those rates or those styles.
Currently very chastened !

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

I will leave my home on August 11/16, walk to the local bus station, to the next town where I will walk from the bus station to the train station. Then, a train to Montreal and a plane to Dublin.

After a week or so of searching for ancestors in County Tipperary, I will cross the Irish Sea to Holyhead or Liverpool and then a train to Londod / Paris / St Jean Poed de Port. Personally, I will be satisfied to complete the Camino Frances is 30 to 35 days, then on to Muxia and Finisterre.

No time limit or restrictions.

There is a fellow who wrote a book on completing the Camono is 3 weeks, (21 days) by walking 40 km a day. That was huge. So, 60 km a day or 6 km / hour, if you are good to your body, it may be possible, especially with a minimal pack.

Question: Do you need to travel the Camino to push it? Save some travel cash if you need to prove something to yourself and try going 800 km 0r 500 miles and see how far you can walk in a day, how many days it takes to cover the distance? No, there is likely not the hostel system in your country to compare but there is such a thing as, "Couch surfing."

 

[Tincatinker]

The OP has said he is grateful for the replies received. I am locking this thread before the discussion widens any further.