- Time of past OR future Camino
- CF 2013, CF from Lourdes 2015, CP Porto 2022
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I've been on the Forum a while and you all have been very kind and supportive.
So now I would like some advice.
I plan to do CF #2 starting, again, in late May. This time, I am thinking of starting in Lourdes, walking to SJPdP, then continuing "as usual."
But I'm nervous. As I wrote on my blog, it's good that I know what to expect. But it's also bad that I know what to expect.
I had such a wonderful experience on the CF that first time. I gained a Camino family, members of which I remain in close contact to this day. I have been blessed by people asking me to share my experiences and have been able to see my accomplishment through their admiring eyes.
But there were times on the Camino when I didn't want to put one foot in front of the other, especially towards the end. The mountain was too steep, my fellow pilgrims too annoying. My dark secret.
I don't need advice to "keep it up, you can do it," etc. I've told too many people that I'm doing it, to turn back now (yes, I told people on purpose so I wouldn't be able to back out). And I WANT to do it.
But I'm afraid (there's the crux of the matter) that it is going to be harder than the first time - I'm two years older - and not as fulfilling.
Normal fear is not being balanced with the happy excitement of the first time. Am I the only one who felt this way before their second/third time on the Camino?
Hi FooteK,I've been on the Forum a while and you all have been very kind and supportive.
So now I would like some advice.......
I plan to do CF #2 starting, again, in late May.
But I'm afraid (there's the crux of the matter) that it is going to be harder than the first time - I'm two years older - and not as fulfilling.
Normal fear is not being balanced with the happy excitement of the first time. Am I the only one who felt this way before their second/third time on the Camino?
No doubt in my mind that my best Camino was the first one. I did not know what to expect, didn't know what you worry about. I walked, found a bed, no matter the ratings, walked again the next day. Caminos since then have felt longer, boring, painful. But also allowed me different scenaries, cities, people. honeymoon is over, until I find it again, one day. I will find it, one day, right?I've been on the Forum a while and you all have been very kind and supportive.
So now I would like some advice.
I plan to do CF #2 starting, again, in late May. This time, I am thinking of starting in Lourdes, walking to SJPdP, then continuing "as usual."
But I'm nervous. As I wrote on my blog, it's good that I know what to expect. But it's also bad that I know what to expect.
I had such a wonderful experience on the CF that first time. I gained a Camino family, members of which I remain in close contact to this day. I have been blessed by people asking me to share my experiences and have been able to see my accomplishment through their admiring eyes.
But there were times on the Camino when I didn't want to put one foot in front of the other, especially towards the end. The mountain was too steep, my fellow pilgrims too annoying. My dark secret.
I don't need advice to "keep it up, you can do it," etc. I've told too many people that I'm doing it, to turn back now (yes, I told people on purpose so I wouldn't be able to back out). And I WANT to do it.
But I'm afraid (there's the crux of the matter) that it is going to be harder than the first time - I'm two years older - and not as fulfilling.
Normal fear is not being balanced with the happy excitement of the first time. Am I the only one who felt this way before their second/third time on the Camino?
Kanga, your posts are always filled with wisdom and kindness. I was inspired by your assertion that there is a confidence built in after a person walks the walk. After reading your post, I laced up my boots and took a long walk. It was nice.@FooteK fear not. My second camino was much easier than the first - not for any physical reason but simply because I knew I could do it. Every time I walk there are the same fears and jitters, but as soon as my feet hit the path it is like an engine getting into gear. I still grumble, I still have those dark moments of the soul - but there is a deep seated confidence within.
Having said that - here's hoping it is not a case of pride before a fall. I'm trusting this coming camino goes OK for me.
Al, I have to admit that I was pretty laid back for my first Camino. I was in slo-mo for most of it, since I didn't have a plane/train/automobile to catch. If you were me, would you stay at the same places you stayed at before or would you try new places - try to see things you skipped?I think that on subsequent Caminos one is not quite so driven. What I mean is that having walked once and gained whatever one has gained there is a more relaxed feeling about everything. You let go more. You are more prepared to go with the flow. Each Camino is different, just as enjoyable and has it's own lessons.
True. That gives you a certain amount of freedom, doesn't it? When I walk around here, I always carry change because I know I can always just jump on a subway if I get too - what - tired? bored? and go home. So far, it has never happened.It is optional. I can quit anytime I want.
That sustains me.
LOL!Hola - I've walked many of the routes multiple times. In the days leading up to departure I still get nervous with anticipation. But you now have the experience to pace yourself physically, the wisdom to withdraw if you need quiet and time to reflect and the confidence to join in with others when you wish.
Buen camino otra vez!
John
Kevin, thanks for not letting me feel weird.Ditto - start #2 tomorrow
Scruffy, I appreciate your point about Lourdes. No one has told me it was a sad place, but of course, it has to be, since everyone is looking for miracles to relieve their sufferings. I guess I'll be asking for something, too, in my own way. Relief for my sufferings . . . in advance??!!Repeat offender? Constant offender! Lourdes? Go if you must - far too much misery, far too many suffering people, too modern when I visited. It is a sad place.
Let me know if you pass through Stuttgart - a cup of coffee on me!Though I'm not retracing my steps on the CF as yet-started my current pilgrimage in Nurnberg and am gradually inching towards Spain-I'm far more relaxed about trying to control what happens and when it happens. Though I still get those rather pleasurable pilgrimage butterflies before setting out once walking I'm content to go with the flow of each journey as others have said in this thread. That 'just wait and see what happens' approach to planning is pretty relaxing for me……. though perhaps a little exasperating for anyone that wants a detailed exposition of ones journey plans…….
Jabba, you are clearly a repeat offender.Don't expect it to be the same -- it will inevitably and necessarily be different.
And the Lourdes route via SJPP is brilliant !!! (just the final stage into SJPP is a bit lengthy)
You nicely described the "loved it-hated it" relationship I occasionally had on the CF. Of course, the "loved it" far outweighed the "hated it," or else why would I be doing it again?Well, you know some days will be an entirely new adventure...and some days will be same old, same old. It was easy to forget (once I was home) that there were plenty of days when I decided to leave the Camino. Plenty. But I woke up in the morning feeling refreshed and forgot all about leaving. There were days when I was so irritated by the crunch crunch crunch of my boots I couldn't stand it another minute. Days when I walked in a company and loved it and days when I was sola and loved it.
But you cannot step in the same river twice. Everything you loved about it will still be there. I think of it like going to camp when I was a kid.
I am going in early May - and I am going to walk the Via Del Norte. But every day I think about just walking the Frances again instead. And every day I tell myself again to go ahead and try something new.
The bottom line is that whatever else it is going to be it will definitely be the Camino and you will be very sad when it is over!
You're thinking way too much about it.
Also, if it sucks and you don't like it, you can always go home. Not that big a deal.
Cecelia, I'm so glad you wrote, especially about the difference in personal relationships between your first and second Camino. I always assumed that strong bonds would develop between people walking. However, in truth, 99% of the people I met on the CF were people I never bonded with, and I was OK with that. Each day brought a new person/s into my life, like chapters in a book, then the next day I moved onto the next chapter.Hi FooteK,
No one can say what your second experience will be like. But as others have said - it is certain to be different from your first. It's hard to do, but try to keep your head out of expecting the same - especially the same wonderful experience with 'a camino family'. We are different on our first camino and everyone else is different. The camino is even different. So don't expect the same. Similar to Kanga - my second camino was physically much easier than my first - as was my third and fourth. My last camino I was 10 years older than I was on my first one and it was still physically easier. The body seems to remember. And I still get a nervous excitement every time.
As to the emotional/psychological/spiritual side of things - well I've told this story before but here goes - briefly. On my first camino I left having NO idea what to expect. But I had made some big changes and looked forward to some solo time to think and renew. I had some of that but one thing I did not expect, and received in abundance, was to meet and enjoy so many wonderful people (this was before forum days). The journey did not go as planned but it was terrific.....So when I went again I looked forward to again meeting, enjoying and making friends with more wonderful people. But it was not to be. Although I met lots of people and enjoyed them, none of that grabbed my attention. It was now time for my solo, inner journey. And it keeps changing and deepening each new camino. Try to let go of your expectations and just let it be what it is.
Have a wonderful journey. Muy buen camino.
Cecelia
I love your quotes, even your Max Planck.as someone already said as well and so well: you can't step into the same river twice -
AND ... i believe that keeping this so-called ' Beginners Mind' is quite helpful ... not just on the camino.
you are not pushing the 'repeat button' -- you are on a new pilgrimage.
yet i do realize that this 'not as fulfilling' can be quite a trap. perhaps try to embark on this pilgrimage on the camino's terms, instead of yours ... and just see how it all flows?!?!
Many years ago, in a book by the italian Aldo Carotenuto - i found a line that struck like thunder: "In reality we are only free when we accept the possibility of remaining forever unsatisfied." - i realized that this looking for fulfillment is a thorny business ... plus one traps oneself in comparisions.... another endeveour full of inbuilt 'frustrations' . - just go ahead ...pack, prepare ... and proceed with confidence.
lucky and blessed you ... having a camino ahead of you! very best wishes - c
*Sigh*No doubt in my mind that my best Camino was the first one. I did not know what to expect, didn't know what you worry about. I walked, found a bed, no matter the ratings, walked again the next day. Caminos since then have felt longer, boring, painful. But also allowed me different scenaries, cities, people. honeymoon is over, until I find it again, one day. I will find it, one day, right?
My second canimo was also much easier. In all ways. Somehow there was less or no pressure at all from myself. I knew i could make it (with alot of pain from injuries), so i had nothing to worry about. I already did it once, i knew i could do it again. I also walked with the thought in mind that i could quit whenever, where ever i wanted. I did not have the drive that i HAVE to finish, like i had the first time. This all made it much much easier.
It also helped i had 00,00 blisters the second time, compared to 234.497 blisters the first time
Having walked the CF twice though, I can tell you it won't be miserable, just different feeling.
Just go home, tail between my legs, admitting defeat??!! NEVER!!
Seriously, I hear what you are saying. It's not a matter of life and death. If it stops being fun, just stop - no reason to practice to be miserable.
Are there people out there who have stopped in the middle simply because they didn't want to do it anymore (not because of time constraints, injuries, etc.)?
Kathy
What do you mean by "sad"?Repeat offender? Constant offender! Lourdes? Go if you must - far too much misery, far too many suffering people, too modern when I visited. It is a sad place.
Mark, let me take you there someday. Sad=pathetic, really it is not a very uplifting experience. Bus loads of tourists buying trinkets and tiny bottles of holy waterWhat do you mean by "sad"?
I would like to go to Lourdes someday, and I do realize that commercialism has sprung up in the city, and suffering people go there, but "sad"?
I guess what I would wonder is what is expected there?
Really.....damn. That's kinda disappointing.Mark, let me take you there someday. Sad=pathetic, really it is not a very uplifting experience. Bus loads of tourists buying trinkets and tiny bottles of holy water.
Just imagine Branson, Missouri centered around a religious shrine!Really.....damn. That's kinda disappointing.
I figured that despite the commercialization it still might be a nice town to hang-around for a couple of days. Visit the grotto and such.
Ha ha....gotcha.Just imagine Branson, Missouri centered around a religious shrine!
I saw a similar tv production in France and it made my heart bleed but the reality is it is really kind of a Jim and Tammy Fay scam. It's a two hour drive from Biarritz, so not that close to SJPDP.Ha ha....gotcha.
What peaked my interest in it was a recent series on PBS about pilgrimages and it was one of the ones they did a show about. They did cover the commercial aspect of the place to some degree.
It doesn't look like it's that far from SJPdP and if I was there again would be worth a visit.
Ha ha....I remember those two dirt-bags from the 1980's. They actually had a religious amusement park of sorts.I saw a similar tv production in France and it made my heart bleed but the reality is it is really kind of a Jim and Tammy Fay scam. It's a two hour drive from Biarritz, so not that close to SJPDP.
Depends on why you are going. As a tourist sightseeing maybe not much but as a pilgrim, you can ignore the commercialism. My parents went there a number of times and my son and daughter have been there often as pilgrim helpers looking after the sick and infirm. They got a lot from it and would go back in a heartbeat. There is growing commercialism onthe camino and in Santiago but as pilgrims, was it not uplifting. Lourdes is not disappointing. Go and experience the feeling of being somewhere special. If you believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared here, you will feel an amazing inner peace. If you are a non believer, then it will be just another townReally.....damn. That's kinda disappointing.
I figured that despite the commercialization it still might be a nice town to hang-around for a couple of days. Visit the grotto and such.
Don't get me wrong, I would definitely would still go Lourdes if I do a third CF starting from SJPdP. I would have the time and resources.Depends on why you are going. As a tourist sightseeing maybe not much but as a pilgrim, you can ignore the commercialism. My parents went there a number of times and my son and daughter have been there often as pilgrim helpers looking after the sick and infirm. They got a lot from it and would go back in a heartbeat. There is growing commercialism onthe camino and in Santiago but as pilgrims, was it not uplifting. Lourdes is not disappointing. Go and experience the feeling of being somewhere special. If you believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared here, you will feel an amazing inner peace. If you are a non believer, then it will be just another town
I have to agree, and not because of the sick people looking for some sort of salvation but because it is all about cheap commercialism. To get to the main entrance you have to walk through rows and rows of commercial stands, in my opinion taking advantage of those going there with spiritual intentions. Horrible.Mark, let me take you there someday. Sad=pathetic, really it is not a very uplifting experience. Bus loads of tourists buying trinkets and tiny bottles of holy water.
Noone was busting their butts trying to make a living in Lourdes. It was pure exploitation of those looking for a miracle. As fo the site itself: yeah, no. Nothing to see either. It is all about faith.A few years ago while in the Philippines I went to see a very old Catholic church in Manila. Walking up to it you pass many vendor stalls. I realize that would be considered commercialization of that site, but I suppose in that situation who am I to judge. I'm not busting my butt trying to make a living and feed myself in an economic strapped country.
Either way, the vendors had no effect on my enjoying visiting a unique, centuries old church in SE Asia.
Felipe, I think I was just personally unlucky with the rain that year! Don't let that put you off.But I am now somewhat worried with the comments about rains. I don't object to some cold, rain and mud (even snow...) but a continuous, all day raining may be too much.
Also, I noticed the comment about loneliness and not being so good for a first pilgrimage experience, since this time I will be (probably) with my wife. This is great, but it adds some stress to my plans, because I really don't want to take a bad decision. Usually, if I am wrong, it is only me. This time, I am a bit nervous...
In France we rely on IPhiGeNie - it's an app with all the official topographical maps - down to incredible detail. There is a yearly license fee and it is easy to use. You download the maps for the area you want so that they are available when you are offline. There are other apps but I think only IPhiGenie and one other (Outdoors France?) have the official maps.
Jabba, you are clearly a repeat offender.
Must be worth it.
Any chance you can give me some insights on the path from Lourdes to SJPdP? It's a bit sketchy on-line. I'm trying to make that trek over the mountain to Roncevalles a little less daunting by putting in a few days practice in advance. Do you think it is a good idea?
Kathy
What do you mean by "sad"?
I would like to go to Lourdes someday, and I do realize that commercialism has sprung up in the city, and suffering people go there, but "sad"?
I guess what I would wonder is what is expected there?
You could turn off at Somport if you really are too lonely. I would guess that is busier.
In France we rely on IPhiGeNie - it's an app with all the official topographical maps - down to incredible detail. There is a yearly license fee and it is easy to use. You download the maps for the area you want so that they are available when you are offline. There are other apps but I think only IPhiGenie and one other (Outdoors France?) have the official maps.
I try to stay in some towns I haven't before, but there are some places I like to revisit. So a mix of the two reay....If you were me, would you stay at the same places you stayed at before or would you try new places - try to see things you skipped?
Perhaps we'll meet up on the CF this year! At the least, maybe at the Camino meet-up in Santiago?
Kathy
I definitely think it's a good idea !!!
1) Stay at Lourdes for two nights -- not only is the Albergue at Lourdes THE best one on the entire Camino (one or two Monasteries etc are superior, but they're not "Albergues" as such), but you can also stay there two nights because you're on two pilgrimages (Lourdes and Compostela)
2) skip down from the "official" route down to Arudy, the donativo parish refugio there is magical, and the parish priest is an absolutely delightful man, and so is his cat. Also a great place to resupply except sunday/monday. Sadly I arrived too late for Mass. The priest is both a true pilgrim and a true hospitalero, and he will be the man that will give you THE best advice about the Arudy > SJPP stretch.
3) There was a great pilgrims office in Oloron in 2005, hopefully it's still there -- try and get into town by about midday, as it's a great location for a good south of France lunch. Yes, splurge out for one. Lourdes is touristy, as is SJPP -- Oloron will be your only chance for some decent and simple French cuisine on your Camino.
4) The GR to Arudy is fairly straightforward, but you might want to consider hitting the tarmac for at least some of the Arudy > Oloron stretch ; it's tiny roads through picturesque and friendly villages.
5) My knowledge of the Oloron > SJPP stretch is likely out of date, except that the final stage into SJPP is a bit of a toughie. It's a long stretch, and it's a mountain hike up and over. Very friendly locals, but you should carry sufficient food and water to keep your strength up.
The tourist office will help you, or just go to booking.com and pick a price and location.any last minute info on where to stay in Lourdes
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