BookGirl305
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Ingles (after Covid)
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I would say this is true, to some degree. I store things in my fridge that people elsewhere don't. This is partly because we tend to have large fridges in North America, compared to elsewhere. So, why not?we store things differently in the US than the rest of the world
And yes - food storage practices vary widely- not just around the world - but even in the same geographic areas. I recall my grandma storing things at room temp that my husband would never be willing to store at room temp.
Yes, Yes, and Yes!!! Peanut butter, butter, and eggs are at the top of the storage debate. I have always been on the peanut butter and butter at room temp side. My husband - after 26 years of marriage is FINALLY leaving butter out! He seriously only started to do this in the last week or two. Totally shocked me haha. And I am the same with eggs...Peanut butter, butter, and eggs are three of the things that have come under serious debate in my extended family regarding whether they should be stored in the fridge or not. I'm totally OK with peanut butter stored at room temperature and have even come around to butter left on the counter (as long as it's stored in something like this) but for whatever reason warm uncooked eggs just weird me out.
Most cooked leftovers will be okay the next day or even the day after unrefridgerated.
Please don’t keep cooked rice beyond the next day, and certainly not unrefrigerated.
It’ll probably still smell fine but don’t eat it!!
Can reheating rice cause food poisoning?
You can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem, but the way the rice has been stored before it is reheated.www.nhs.uk
Yup, I've read of several cases of cooked rice causing food poisoning when kept out. But I seem to remember it was rice that had been cooled, then kept out.Please don’t keep cooked rice beyond the next day, and certainly not unrefrigerated.
It’ll probably still smell fine but don’t eat it!!
Can reheating rice cause food poisoning?
You can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem, but the way the rice has been stored before it is reheated.www.nhs.uk
It's been over 100 degrees here every day for the last couple of weeks, and that is the norm for April and May. My (natural) peanut butter literally pours out of the jar if I don't put it in the fridge.2 nations divided not by a common language but a refrigeration policy. Who puts peanut better in a fridge! And we do prefer our cheese runny and a bit smelly.
Totally agree caution with cooked rice.
But we are all different.
Hi there. I have the great good fortune to live here in Spain and one of the great joys of it is to live off of the local foods. I see that you reference the Camino Ingles, which is a Camino less travelled, but that does not mean that whereever you stay that you will not be able to access local food. An enormous part of your journey is going to be trying things that you have not encountered before so do it in situ. Open your mind to rural Spain and it will repay the investment many, many times over. We are not scary......honest.I see a lot of references to "bring along a yogurt, cheese, chorizo, milk", etc in your pack." Buy the night before for breakfast" and the like, which I can see for a couple of hours but not buying and storing for 24 hours or more.
In the US, all of those items require refrigeration for food safety. Is there different shelf stable packaging in Spain or do we store things differently in the US than the rest of the world?
I remember reading an article regarding refrigerating eggs. I believe that the only country that recommends refrigeration is the United States. It is because of a coating that we put on the eggs. Why the Americans do that I do not know. I live in Mexico and eggs are all left unrefrigerated. Except when I lived in Puerto Vallarta and with the heat and humidity there is very little you can leave out of the refrigerator. Even in the refrigerator shelf life is shorter. Maybe the same in the Big Easy?Peanut butter, butter, and eggs are three of the things that have come under serious debate in my extended family regarding whether they should be stored in the fridge or not. I'm totally OK with peanut butter stored at room temperature and have even come around to butter left on the counter (as long as it's stored in something like this) but for whatever reason warm uncooked eggs just weird me out.
Yes, the ambient temperature is an important factor. I grew up in the UK and wouldn't refrigerate eggs or butter normally, but here in Greece in the summer the butter melts if you don't put it in the fridge.It's been over 100 degrees here every day for the last couple of weeks, and that is the norm for April and May. My (natural) peanut butter literally pours out of the jar if I don't put it in the fridge.
I get that! Not a problem in England!It's been over 100 degrees here every day for the last couple of weeks, and that is the norm for April and May. My (natural) peanut butter literally pours out of the jar if I don't put it in the fridge.
Some "natural" peanut butters have to be refrigerated, but most others do not.2 nations divided not by a common language but a refrigeration policy. Who puts peanut better in a fridge! A
Nope, it's because of the natural coating that keeps bacteria out that is washed off in the US.I remember reading an article regarding refrigerating eggs. I believe that the only country that recommends refrigeration is the United States. It is because of a coating that we put on the eggs
I knew it had something to do with coating. Will you give me partial credit on my final egg inspection exam???Nope, it's because of the natural coating that keeps bacteria out that is washed off in the US.
Why Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs
Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs, and Americans do — and the reason why has everything to do with how they're processed.www.businessinsider.com
Right?! I take my butter out of the fridge and by the time I get the bread and ingredients out, the butter is soft enough to spread. Taking something out of the freezer for dinner - 30 minutes is plenty of time to thaw it. LOL! But now I'm getting off topic...but here in Greece in the summer the butter melts if you don't put it in the fridge.
I was also told, but can't say for certain it's true - that eggs from chickens which are fed hormones, etc. require refrigeration. Something about the chemicals changing the composition of the eggs.Nope, it's because of the natural coating that keeps bacteria out that is washed off in the US.
Why Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs
Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs, and Americans do — and the reason why has everything to do with how they're processed.www.businessinsider.com
Yes, but I'm taking points off because you didn't read my or @Vacajoe's previous posts above on the subject.I knew it had something to do with coating. Will you give me partial credit on my final egg inspection exam???
I doubt that's trueI was also told, but can't say for certain it's true - that eggs from chickens which are fed hormones, etc. require refrigeration. Something about the chemicals changing the composition of the eggs.
Having been brought up in the north of England 80 years ago - we never had a refrigerator. Even now, I don't keep butter or preserves (that's why we called them "preserves") and many other things in my 2 big American fridges.Peanut butter, butter, and eggs are three of the things that have come under serious debate in my extended family regarding whether they should be stored in the fridge or not. I'm totally OK with peanut butter stored at room temperature and have even come around to butter left on the counter (as long as it's stored in something like this) but for whatever reason warm uncooked eggs just weird me out.
Plus, it's not a wilderness hike. There are stores, restaurants and bars where you can buy food every day.point is you don’t have to carry food for long. Also, the less food you carry, the less weight you carry.
Just curious... were you reheating rice that had been refrigerated? Or rice that had been left out for more than 24 hours at room temp storage. According to the article, that would be the difference. I have reheated rice MANY times as well.. but most of the time it was refrigerated for storage. Usually if it was left out and reheated - it was the same day it was cooked. Not more than 24 hours later.I have done so countless times without any issues, but thanks for the warning, never heard of that. I also reheat mushrooms which is apparently considered a no-no-never and never had any problems.
Just curious... were you reheating rice that had been refrigerated? Or rice that had been left out for more than 24 hours at room temp storage. According to the article, that would be the difference. I have reheated rice MANY times as well.. but most of the time it was refrigerated for storage. Usually if it was left out and reheated - it was the same day it was cooked. Not more than 24 hours later.
Your house us that hid?It's been over 100 degrees here every day for the last couple of weeks, and that is the norm for April and May. My (natural) peanut butter literally pours out of the jar if I don't put it in the fridge.
I think you're asking if my house is that hot. You're right, the house is not quite as hot as outside, but still hot enough to soften butter in less than 10 minutes. I prefer to keep the house opened up during the day.Your house us that hid?
I kept cheese in my backpack on the Appalachian Trail for 4-5 days at a time, no problem. Yogurt can easily go overnight because of the fermentation. If you buy a sausage that not refrigerated, that’s obviously good overnight. Milk in a carton from the shelf (UHT), sure. That’s all I know.I see a lot of references to "bring along a yogurt, cheese, chorizo, milk", etc in your pack." Buy the night before for breakfast" and the like, which I can see for a couple of hours but not buying and storing for 24 hours or more.
In the US, all of those items require refrigeration for food safety. Is there different shelf stable packaging in Spain or do we store things differently in the US than the rest of the world?
No need to store milk. Plenty of cafes along the way and small shops. In fact I generally only carry fruit and trail mix along with water when I walk caminos.I would say this is true, to some degree. I store things in my fridge that people elsewhere don't. This is partly because we tend to have large fridges in North America, compared to elsewhere. So, why not?
I consider myself fairly cautious. I don't know what the experts would say, but I am fine with overnight and into the next morning (say 18 hours) for hard boiled eggs in their shell, yogurt, chorizo, and packaged cheeses such as Laughing Cow and Baby Bel. Some of those items are probably good for much longer. For milk and other cheeses, I would be OK with overnight in a coolish place, but I would eat them for breakfast and not carry further.
Traditionally prepared sausages are anyway purposed for easy storage, often not requiring even a cold room, as are some other cured meats. Little 1€ packs of sliced sausage OTOH cannot really be transported for more than a few hours.I see a lot of references to "bring along a yogurt, cheese, chorizo, milk", etc in your pack." Buy the night before for breakfast" and the like, which I can see for a couple of hours but not buying and storing for 24 hours or more.
In the US, all of those items require refrigeration for food safety. Is there different shelf stable packaging in Spain or do we store things differently in the US than the rest of the world?
Eggs should never be refrigerated (they are alive, even when unfertilised, and refrigeration kills them -- this is true of most fruit and veg, though there are some of them that are not killed by standard refrigeration ; typically the ones that traditionally would have been kept in a cold room anyway, for freshness).for whatever reason warm uncooked eggs just weird me out.
Hi,I see a lot of references to "bring along a yogurt, cheese, chorizo, milk", etc in your pack." Buy the night before for breakfast" and the like, which I can see for a couple of hours but not buying and storing for 24 hours or more.
In the US, all of those items require refrigeration for food safety. Is there different shelf stable packaging in Spain or do we store things differently in the US than the rest of the world?
We must be brothers/sisters of different mothers.Born in the fifties we never had a fridge;just a larder with stone shelf ( UK)
but we still had warm weather in the summers!(i forget what day it was)
All meats,eggs and dairy produce lived on that shelf.(no use by dates) and i don'recall getting food poisoning.
Goodness knows how we managed that especially with raw chicken and fish and dried out bacon rashers;although there was no supermarkets then and only daily corner shopping!
Butter never goes in the fridge no matter how long it takes to consume; refrigerated butter never spreads on toast so stays out as do eggs.
Jams, peanut butter and marmite never in fridge! (large marmite lasts forever i think the pharaohs used to keep it with their honey two thousand years ago)
Yoghurt is a bit iffy;but hard boiled eggs shell on in cold water should be Ok i think.
Woody
You are making some big assumptions here. Try finding a place for breakfast on any route other than the Camino Frances, or even on the Frances during the off-season! Planning some morning nourishment is wise, as is educating ourselves about food safety..No need to store milk. Plenty of cafes along the way and small shops.
Eggs should never be refrigerated (they are alive, even when unfertilised, and refrigeration kills them -- this is true of most fruit and veg, though there are some of them that are not killed by standard refrigeration ; typically the ones that traditionally would have been kept in a cold room anyway, for freshness).
Problem is, most store eggs already have been refrigerated, at least during transport ; even when they are displayed on room temperature supermarket shelves.
A lady brought a cup of coffee from McDonalds and drove off with it in her lap. Surprise; it fell over and she was scalded. Now you can only get warm coffee because a judge said the coffee was "unnecessarily hot" and awarder her a bunch of money. In the UK we would have said she was probably too dumb to have a driving license.
Well, I hiked last summer during COVID - right when Spain first reopened to vaccinated tourists. Frances Route. I found myself "starving" (I use that term loosely because obviously actual starvation takes more than a few hours). Why? I don't eat right when I wake up - so I would get up, pack my pack, and start walking. My intention would be to stop 5-10km down the road. And I would pass bar after bar that was closed in the early mornings (if they opened at all). There were a few days that I couldn't find a bar open until I arrived at my destination. And I always managed to miss grocery store opening hours (except in big cities). Because of that - I will ALWAYS start my Camino by stopping at a grocery store first - and make sure I have a couple easy to store snacks that will last me a couple of days, and restock in all of the bigger towns/cities. Anyhow, the further I walked - the less of an issue it was (because things were reopening as more pilgrims arrived). But even my last hiking day - Muxia to Finisterre - there was NOTHING open along the way as I passed through. Thank goodness there was a donativo fruit stand!Last night I had a horrible dream about some Peregrino starving because of my advice to just buy day before and not worry about it.
And I forgot about snacks!
Now, I only dreamt about this because of 1 night on the San Salvador some years ago. Same rules didn’t apply to this obscure Camino. I ended up in a town with no restaurants or stores and no food in my pack. Poor planning on my part for sure. That night my meal was literally buillon cubes from an Albergue pantry in hot water. The next day was awful. So, I will caveat my previous response that you should pay attention to future food availability in your food planning.
This is the only time I ever starved on like 250+ days/nights on the Camino. Hasn’t happened on major routes ever. Again, my fault.
Now I like to carry snacks that require no preservation at all and are more or less always in my pack… Nuts! (Cashews are my favorite… salted). Candy (there are like entire stores dedicated to candy, they are fun. I’m partial to the gummies.) And fruit. An apple or orange is also pretty much always carried, but they last forever.
OMG!!! You like candy stores and gummies?? I love candy stores and gummies!!!!! where have you been all my life?? (jejejejeje)Now I like to carry snacks that require no preservation at all and are more or less always in my pack… Nuts! (Cashews are my favorite… salted). Candy (there are like entire stores dedicated to candy, they are fun. I’m partial to the gummies.) And fruit. An apple or orange is also pretty much always carried, but they last forever.
Those are awesome.olives in little plastic pouches,
You should contact the manufacturer about making a smaller portable size! I love my vacuum sealer. I store batteries, medications, all sorts of stuff. I even vacuum sealed my covid booster certificate since replacements are not available.I've just bought a home vacuum sealer which means I can buy larger quantities of food (5lbs weight of smoked bacon rashers anybody?) and break it down into smaller servings - I mainly live on my own.
I'm told that "cheese generally lasts between one to two weeks when stored in ordinary bags and containers, but using a vacuum sealer extends that length between four and eight months" (my bold italics)
Now just have to figure out how to carry the vacuum sealer and bags in a rucksack.
Ooooooo!!! You just solved the bedbug problem!!!!Now just have to figure out how to carry the vacuum sealer and bags in a rucksack.
Seriously guys, as I will now freely paraphrase Tom's post in my own words.You don't get the full flavour of a Manchego cheese until it's been sweating in your backpack for at least couple of days.
If you like to eat al fresco on the Way (who doesn't?) it's quite nice to have a back-up of longer lasting foods to accompany the fresh fruit, giant tomatoes, yoghurt and bread you source the night before (unless you know you can buy bread in the morning, like in that awesome bakery in the backstreets of Burgos on the way out).
Medium/long-life foods, especially useful away from the CF include TUC biscuits, olives in little plastic pouches, flat canned giant beans in tomato sauce, nuts and dried fruits and membrillo (quince) hard paste. Ciabatta bread is a good alternative to the standard pan de barra/baguette - the higher oil content means it stays enjoyably edible for much longer.
Not all Caminos have the pilgrim support found on the Camino Frances. As several folks have pointed out, there are certainly routes were pilgrims may find themselves without any food sources during one or more days of hiking, especially during holidays, weekends, siesta, or post-pandemic.but why would you carry it
Definitely true for the Camino Francés, but not for all routes. I always check what's coming up on the walk for the next day, then maybe grab a package of nuts or something the night before if necessary.IMHO the basic premise that you need to have food with you is a false premise. A few times I carried some fruit and peanuts and once some crackers. I never had a problem finding something to eat. If there was no breakfast available at the albergue, I would find a great place for breakfast after a hour or so of walking. There was one, and only one, day that the first advertised place to eat was 17K from where I slept. After a 2 hour walk I saw an enterprising family grilling sausages and selling drinks. Even that day I was not deprived of food. Now about refrigeration, peanut butter should not be kept in the fridge. That makes it hard to spread.
Yeah, sorry I was being CF centric I definitely had the same issue on the Madrid several years ago and probably could have starved to death because it was off season. My bad for the post!Definitely true for the Camino Francés, but not for all routes. I always check what's coming up on the walk for the next day, then maybe grab a package of nuts or something the night before if necessary.
When I walked the Camino del Salvador I got caught out on the first day because I didn't take into account that it was a Sunday, and that the first bar that I got to would be closed. Fortunately, I had bought a pack of Peanut M&Ms which tided me over until the early afternoon.
No problem. No one is literally going to starve on any Camino route, but they might have a bad day!Yeah, sorry I was being CF centric I definitely had the same issue on the Madrid several years ago and probably could have starved to death because it was off season. My bad for the post!
When it gets like that in France, I most certainly stop following the waymarked trail and walk by some detour to a resupply point.We hit the winning combination of French holiday and weekend/Monday in a remote part of the Piemonte. Literally no food available for three days of walking - do you think we were happy to have some warm yogurt and stinky old cheese in our packs? You bet!!!!
Why Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs
Some of what is written in these articles is not quite correct or slightly misleading. There is also incorrect advice in some of the thread posts. Yesterday seen in a food shop in France, the text says: Keep in fridge after purchase.Why Does the U.S. Refrigerate Eggs When Much of the World Doesn’t?
Of course not only in France but also in Spain, see below. If you are like me, you will never have noticed this before but the next time you see a box of 6 eggs in a Spanish supermarket, you will notice it.European consumers are advised to put eggs into their fridges as soon as they return home from shopping, as you can see on the photo but also in shops and in the text printed on egg boxes if you care to look.
This, i walked with a French peregrina in 2014 and she kept cheese in her backpack, I have ever since because I realised queso gains so much flavour, it just needs wrapping up properly. The same for Chorizo, Serrano and other dried sausages you find on the way. I always make sure now my Serrano is hand carved rather than machine cut, the bigger pieces gain so much more flavour than the thinly sliced pieces when left at Mochilla temps.You don't get the full flavour of a Manchego cheese until it's been sweating in your backpack for at least couple of days.
I have no idea why any pilgrim might wish to carry eggs in his pack, unless perhaps hard boiled.Ideal conditions for keeping raw eggs: 10 °C. Avoid quick temperature increases of more than 7 ºC as it can lead to condensation which damages the protective outer layer.
And I have no idea why anyone would carry raw eggs sold in the United States in their mochilla on Camino, yet we are discussing them in this thread. And let me just check who had claimed that eggs should never be refrigerated - oh yes, I see - that's what set me off on a tangent. But I'm pleased about it. I now know more and better.I have no idea why any pilgrim might wish to carry eggs in his pack, unless perhaps hard boiled.
I see it as a pleasant discussion tangent.And I have no idea why anyone would carry raw eggs sold in the United States in their mochilla on Camino, yet we are discussing them in this thread.
No, sorry, that's just not true.99.99% of the time while walking the Camino ... there is no need to carry anything perishable
Those olive packets . . .Those are awesome.
Strangely, I disliked olives too for a bit…but slowly their salty, fatty, satisfying goodness converted me.Those olive packets . . .
The first words I learned in Spanish were: "No me gusta las aceitunas. Dar a mi esposo!"
No purpose? Well, curiosity to learn and interest in options, are good purposes in themselves. I'd say that the more direct purpose would be to increase the options, particularly for people who might have different dietary needs or preferences.This is an in interesting thread, but quite honestly one that serves no purpose.
Nobody has suggested that it is essential to carry perishable food. People will not starve if they don't carry food on the Camino Frances. For other Caminos, of course they won't starve either, but they could be unnecessarily uncomfortable. Or they could rely on wilderness/non-perishable rations as their back-up food.there is no need to carry anything perishable that could possibly make one sick if it spoils in the backpack.
LOL... I guess it depends on what it is and whether or not there is an expiration date attached! And what type of food (like is it a package of cheese? Or is it leftovers from a cooked meal?) Also... if I was broke and really hungry I might be more apt to eat something that is slightly more questionable hahaOk a kind of related topic to perishable food in your backpack...when you arrive at the albergue and there is stuff in the fridge left by other pilgrims with a big sign on it that it is OK to eat, how many of you will eat this not knowing how long it has been there?
As a hospitalera I do try to monitor this somewhat for food safety, but sometimes there is a big bowl of pilgrim surprise in there and it usually disappears quickly...
You do not keep French cheese in the fridgeThis, i walked with a French peregrina in 2014 and she kept cheese in her backpack, I have ever since because I realised queso gains so much flavour, it just needs wrapping up properly. The same for Chorizo, Serrano and other dried sausages you find on the way. I always make sure now my Serrano is hand carved rather than machine cut, the bigger pieces gain so much more flavour than the thinly sliced pieces when left at Mochilla temps.
Yeah... I might go for something prepackaged left behind, or maybe even fruit like a slice of watermelon. I am much less likely to go for the "semi-recognizable" foods unless I know who put it in there or when. I would have to be pretty hungry to consider the later...Seldom a note except "free to pilgrims" in a variety of languages. Only occasionally cheese as most people put that in their pack and take it whether it is perishable or not. Maybe some fruit (like part a watermelon that can't be carried along). Sometimes semi-recognizable (like a salad), but usually more like pasta, rice, lentils, soup, or some mixture.
Serves no purpose because 99.99% of the time while walking the Camino (especially the Frances) there is no need to carry anything perishable that could possibly make one sick if it spoils in the backpack.No, sorry, that's just not true.
As a reminder, this is the Camino :
Yes, if you're a fast hiker walking the Francès, then what you've said is true.
But others on other routes may well have rather different experiences and notions.
I'd say that those are safe assumptions.My takeaway is that if the market is selling it on a shelf, it's ok to go in my pack for a few hours/a day to have to eat. If the market has it cold, maybe wait until closer to mealtime for that item.
My partner was at Lille University for 3 years, when I was visiting her she got me into the local cheese Mimolette, which even if refrigerated still has health concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MimoletteYou do not keep French cheese in the fridge
I didn’t know about Mimolette, you learn a lot from this forumMy partner was at Lille University for 3 years, when I was visiting her she got me into the local cheese Mimolette, which even if refrigerated still has health concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimolette
But there is a cheese shop on one of the backstreets of Santiago which used to sell it, so next time I'm in town I will pick some up if I'm going onto the coast, those little cheese mites will love my backpack.
You can always rely on the forum for a bit of culture.I didn’t know about Mimolette, you learn a lot from this forum
Eat Mimolette, apparently you can buy it in Santiago!I'm never eating cheese again.
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