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Deep_Puncture_wound_right foot. What helped you w/ similar experience?

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
Greetings and Ola'
I researched the forum postings - hoping to find insights /shares by someone who experienced a deep-puncture wound and what had helped, how strong pain-level, time to heal, etc.
As I wasn't lucky finding collective pilgrim wisdom and hope to be forgiven to pose a question on this subject.
background:
  • a long, hard thorn (inch or longer, probably black-thorn bush or other prunus shrub) went through the soles of my shoe/sandal and pierced into the ball of foot below the two smallest toes.
  • Intense instant pain, muscles seems to cramp, swelling of front part of foot into toes, etc.
  • I seemed to have succeeded in removing all organic matter and the entry wound area is clean and not 'ragged' or torn. ER doc confirmed my findings.
  • used disinfect wipes, anti-biotic creme, arnica, hypericum, ledum, rescue-remedy, pain-meds, whatever i could think of.
  • I spent a few hours in the ER, was told to rest, elevate foot, observe if swelling or reddening spreads towards or above ankle (i.e. then return to ER) and 'let nature takes its course'. no icing or warm-packs recommended either. but to continue w/ arnica creme for e.g.
YIKES ... I am pretty pain-tolerant, not-accident prone, in professional life i was trained to work with very sharp tools/blades and definitely am not careless, and walked camino sans a single blister (true story) - but this puncture foot wound has catapulted me into a new realm of pain experience (perhaps i was thus far more of a burns, scrapes, cut-wounds sorta girl, and am familiar with those healing processes, but now utterly clueless about deep puncture wounds, and frankly am blown-away how frigging painful this is, and every micro movement triggers more pain.)

Thus, my question is - based on your experience (perhaps also from your military/police work, medical observation, garden work, etc) What could be expected in the healing process, timing, etc ? Today I can move about a wee bit better than yesterday. So, there is a slight improvement. And i can move toes a few millimeters back'n'forth without hitting the ceiling. That's improvement as well.
Still - when/if 'walking' it's veryyyy snail-paced. Using my Camino poles indoors too as I don't have crutches.
(ah, am a non-smoker, no NCD or any other illnesses that would impair wound-healing)

one 'invention' which proves to be helpful I am happy to share: as due to swelling, no shoes/sandal fit, but i don't want to move about barefoot or plain socks, I composed an impromptu 'wooly shoe'.

  • Using one pair of thick wool socks, and a pair of silicon insoles (Laurie/peregrina2000 might remember our '2014 discussion' of the benefit of those beauties:cool: ) - i wear the right sock on the right foot, place the TWO silicon insoles over the socked sole of foot, then pull the other, left sock, over the right foot as well, and voila' - the hobbles and wobbles are a wee bit less painful.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Very best wishes - and blessed Pentecost weekend to one and all.
Saluti
C
 
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Ouch! Wounds or injuries such as the one described above are the ones that will need careful management. Whilst I can't recall having had a similar injury I have had problems all along the ball of my foot (for those not in the know - the ball is that tough area behind your toes and spreads right across the foot. It helps spread your weight load more evenly). What time frame to repair? Well that really depends upon how deep the puncture wound was. Anything over a 1/4 inch (or 5mm) is going to take some time. Maybe put a bit of extra padding around the puncture area. Otherwise try to stay off it as much as possible. Buen Camino!!
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
Ouch!
I've had a couple of deep puncture wounds in my feet as a kid and young adult from running around under kiawe trees at the beach. And they hurt a lot, but not like that. I'm no medical professional, but with that level of pain, wonder if part of the thorn is still in there, creating havoc to nerves or joints? A cursory reading in articles cited by PubMed indicates that microscopic pieces can create big reactions. Blackthorn synovitis is a thing.
@davebugg ?

Very practically, one thing that might help mitigate the pain from a persistent thorn fragment would be to make a donut out of thick felt and tape it to the sole of the foot with the hole positioned directly over the puncture site. That's worked for me with glass fragments (another story...).

May you soon have relief....
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Greetings and Ola'
I researched the forum postings - hoping to find insights /shares by someone who experienced a deep-puncture wound and what had helped, how strong pain-level, time to heal, etc.
As I wasn't lucky finding collective pilgrim wisdom and hope to be forgiven to pose a question on this subject.
background:
  • a long, hard thorn (inch or longer, probably black-thorn bush or other prunus shrub) went through the soles of my shoe/sandal and pierced into the ball of foot below the two smallest toes.
  • Intense instant pain, muscles seems to cramp, swelling of front part of foot into toes, etc.
  • I seemed to have succeeded in removing all organic matter and the entry wound area is clean and not 'ragged' or torn. ER doc confirmed my findings.
  • used disinfect wipes, anti-biotic creme, arnica, hypericum, ledum, rescue-remedy, pain-meds, whatever i could think of.
  • I spent a few hours in the ER, was told to rest, elevate foot, observe if swelling or reddening spreads towards or above ankle (i.e. then return to ER) and 'let nature takes its course'. no icing or warm-packs recommended either. but to continue w/ arnica creme for e.g.
YIKES ... I am pretty pain-tolerant, not-accident prone, in professional life i was trained to work with very sharp tools/blades and definitely am not careless, and walked camino sans a single blister (true story) - but this puncture foot wound has catapulted me into a new realm of pain experience (perhaps i was thus far more of a burns, scrapes, cut-wounds sorta girl, and am familiar with those healing processes, but now utterly clueless about deep puncture wounds, and frankly am blown-away how frigging painful this is, and every micro movement triggers more pain.)

Thus, my question is - based on your experience (perhaps also from your military/police work, medical observation, garden work, etc) What could be expected in the healing process, timing, etc ? Today I can move about a wee bit better than yesterday. So, there is a slight improvement. And i can move toes a few millimeters back'n'forth without hitting the ceiling. That's improvement as well.
Still - when/if 'walking' it's veryyyy snail-paced. Using my Camino poles indoors too as I don't have crutches.
(ah, am a non-smoker, no NCD or any other illnesses that would impair wound-healing)

one 'invention' which proves to be helpful I am happy to share: as due to swelling, no shoes/sandal fit, but i don't want to move about barefoot or plain socks, I composed an impromptu 'wooly shoe'.

  • Using one pair of thick wool socks, and a pair of silicon insoles (Laurie/peregrina2000 might remember our '2014 discussion' of the benefit of those beauties:cool: ) - i wear the right sock on the right foot, place the TWO silicon insoles over the socked sole of foot, then pull the other, left sock, over the right foot as well, and voila' - the hobbles and wobbles are a wee bit less painful.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Very best wishes - and blessed Pentecost weekend to one and all.
Saluti
C

VNwalking mentioned one thing that I would also consider with the synovitis. There are a couple of other things I might be watchful for.

1. A large number of cases of tetanus are introduced by the type of vegetation-related puncture wound that you suffered. If not already done, review the need for a Tetanus Booster.

2. Observe for worsening conditions to the wounds appearance until healing is complete. Necrotizing Fasciitis has been observed with similar puncture wounds.

3. You may have involved a nerve bundle in the injury. This could have been a direct trauma from the thorn itself, or from inflamed tissue in proximity to the nerves. If there was bacteria trapped into a pocket created by the thorn, a deep tissue infection might also produce the symptoms.

The timing for resolution of symptoms? it should be a continual progression, rather than a sudden resolution. Even though the wound may appear to be negligible, it can remain tender for a while, like a horizontal cut on top of the skin.

Only instead of the trauma being horizontal and long as in a surface cut, your puncture wound is vertical and deep. If you notice any increasing heat at the wound site, or worsening symptoms of pain or discolorations, seek a medical consultation again.

Trying to alleviate pressure directly on top of the puncture site can help with comfort while walking. Make a larger 'donut' out of mole foam-type products, or from a bit of a firmer foam around the house, and fix it so that the donut hole is open over the site, and that can help keep walking pressures off of the wound.
 
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Charles Zammit

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
St Jean Pied de Port - Finisterra 2017
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Via Francigena 2019
Some thorns are brittle , they will shatter into many fragments when being removed , almost like the spines of a Sea Urchin . Deep puncture wounds to the foot are very painful but this is usually relatively short lived. Continuing severe pain calls for gram negative anti biotic treatment and some type of investigative imaging.
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
UPDATE: 🦶 👣 🌺 🙏 Mucho Thanks to one and all who were so kind to take time, consideration, and offered their suggestions, links and insights. It truly helped me to assess and gauge all this much better.
Even just the affirmation that deep puncture wounds are very painful is helpful.
And yes, apparently a small nerve was struck as well as per ER doc. Luckily No findings of remaining fragments inside wound, time will tell ... good news is there is no 'liquid leakage' of any kind or colouration.
AND ... late afternoon yesterday i remembered reading about another homeopathic remedy "Silicea", said to help the skin to expel splinters and such. Thought it might work in this situation as well, and after taking a dosage of those globuli, i was thrilled to notice that the pain-level dropped considerably within 10-20 minutes after 45hrs of very strong pain /discomfort.
Was stunning to observe how swiftly it changed for the better. And am much relieved as I still hobble and wobble about, but def more mobile, less agony.
[a caution though w/ this remedy: it's said that Silicea is also known to help loosen other fragments under skin/inside body. So, for folks w/ dental implants, screws in bones, etc ... might be advisable only to take Silicea after consulting a homeopathic doc. Who knew? Interesting topic for sure.]
Again, thank you much for your generosity of spirit! C
 

Purple Backpack

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2012
England C2C 2015
Via Francigena 2016
Le Puy ... someday.
I had to look up what a Blackthorn bush is and found this in a 2003 Guardian article:

"Blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is not poisonous but probably twice as dangerous. It is considered to be bad luck to bring the blossom indoors, mainly, I think, because the crown of thorns was reputed to be made from blackthorn. If so, ouch. The thorns are very long and very sharp and have a habit of breaking off under the skin and then going septic. I also, by the by, read that Black Rod, he of the door-knocking in parliament, is so called because he carries a knocking rod made from blackthorn. Case proven."

1590842505647.png

Yikes. If pain doesn't resolve, think I'd return to ER for an Xray to make sure a piece of that isn't buried deep. Warm, moist heat may help while healing. Best wishes!
 

JillGat

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Year of past OR future Camino
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Camino Portugues (June 2019)
I had to look up what a Blackthorn bush is and found this in a 2003 Guardian article:

"Blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is not poisonous but probably twice as dangerous. It is considered to be bad luck to bring the blossom indoors, mainly, I think, because the crown of thorns was reputed to be made from blackthorn. If so, ouch. The thorns are very long and very sharp and have a habit of breaking off under the skin and then going septic. I also, by the by, read that Black Rod, he of the door-knocking in parliament, is so called because he carries a knocking rod made from blackthorn. Case proven."

View attachment 76029

Yikes. If pain doesn't resolve, think I'd return to ER for an Xray to make sure a piece of that isn't buried deep. Warm, moist heat may help while healing. Best wishes!

MRI would be better.
 
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evanscl

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Oct 2016
UPDATE: 🦶 👣 🌺 🙏 Mucho Thanks to one and all who were so kind to take time, consideration, and offered their suggestions, links and insights. It truly helped me to assess and gauge all this much better.
Even just the affirmation that deep puncture wounds are very painful is helpful.
And yes, apparently a small nerve was struck as well as per ER doc. Luckily No findings of remaining fragments inside wound, time will tell ... good news is there is no 'liquid leakage' of any kind or colouration.
AND ... late afternoon yesterday i remembered reading about another homeopathic remedy "Silicea", said to help the skin to expel splinters and such. Thought it might work in this situation as well, and after taking a dosage of those globuli, i was thrilled to notice that the pain-level dropped considerably within 10-20 minutes after 45hrs of very strong pain /discomfort.
Was stunning to observe how swiftly it changed for the better. And am much relieved as I still hobble and wobble about, but def more mobile, less agony.
[a caution though w/ this remedy: it's said that Silicea is also known to help loosen other fragments under skin/inside body. So, for folks w/ dental implants, screws in bones, etc ... might be advisable only to take Silicea after consulting a homeopathic doc. Who knew? Interesting topic for sure.]
Again, thank you much for your generosity of spirit! C
Its very interesting to me that silicea helped and you had taken other homeopathic stuff as i am a personal believer in it. Apart from that, the possibility of tetanus, and infection, and blackthorn reaction issues , whch would be my concerns ( already mentioned by others) my only other personal recourse personally would be to a poultice of some kind to help draw out anything in the wound - but i stress thats only what i would try for myself. I am not recommending it . silicea has the same effect so maybe it would be unnecessary.
If you have a red area around the puncture wound you could draw a line around the perimeter so you can soon see if it increases or decreases as an indicator. Any worsening needs a doctor assessing it again, dont hesitate.
 
Greetings and Ola'
I researched the forum postings - hoping to find insights /shares by someone who experienced a deep-puncture wound and what had helped, how strong pain-level, time to heal, etc.
As I wasn't lucky finding collective pilgrim wisdom and hope to be forgiven to pose a question on this subject.
background:
  • a long, hard thorn (inch or longer, probably black-thorn bush or other prunus shrub) went through the soles of my shoe/sandal and pierced into the ball of foot below the two smallest toes.
  • Intense instant pain, muscles seems to cramp, swelling of front part of foot into toes, etc.
  • I seemed to have succeeded in removing all organic matter and the entry wound area is clean and not 'ragged' or torn. ER doc confirmed my findings.
  • used disinfect wipes, anti-biotic creme, arnica, hypericum, ledum, rescue-remedy, pain-meds, whatever i could think of.
  • I spent a few hours in the ER, was told to rest, elevate foot, observe if swelling or reddening spreads towards or above ankle (i.e. then return to ER) and 'let nature takes its course'. no icing or warm-packs recommended either. but to continue w/ arnica creme for e.g.
YIKES ... I am pretty pain-tolerant, not-accident prone, in professional life i was trained to work with very sharp tools/blades and definitely am not careless, and walked camino sans a single blister (true story) - but this puncture foot wound has catapulted me into a new realm of pain experience (perhaps i was thus far more of a burns, scrapes, cut-wounds sorta girl, and am familiar with those healing processes, but now utterly clueless about deep puncture wounds, and frankly am blown-away how frigging painful this is, and every micro movement triggers more pain.)

Thus, my question is - based on your experience (perhaps also from your military/police work, medical observation, garden work, etc) What could be expected in the healing process, timing, etc ? Today I can move about a wee bit better than yesterday. So, there is a slight improvement. And i can move toes a few millimeters back'n'forth without hitting the ceiling. That's improvement as well.
Still - when/if 'walking' it's veryyyy snail-paced. Using my Camino poles indoors too as I don't have crutches.
(ah, am a non-smoker, no NCD or any other illnesses that would impair wound-healing)

one 'invention' which proves to be helpful I am happy to share: as due to swelling, no shoes/sandal fit, but i don't want to move about barefoot or plain socks, I composed an impromptu 'wooly shoe'.

  • Using one pair of thick wool socks, and a pair of silicon insoles (Laurie/peregrina2000 might remember our '2014 discussion' of the benefit of those beauties:cool: ) - i wear the right sock on the right foot, place the TWO silicon insoles over the socked sole of foot, then pull the other, left sock, over the right foot as well, and voila' - the hobbles and wobbles are a wee bit less painful.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Very best wishes - and blessed Pentecost weekend to one and all.
Saluti
C
I punctured my foot outside of Logrono and spent a long, painful day before reaching Najera. The local hardware store sold me a cheap plastic basin and shears. I made an insole for my shoes and walked another twenty days. P.S. My brother, an orthodist said "Stop go home". So much for wisdom of a baby brother.
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
I had to look up what a Blackthorn bush is and found this in a 2003 Guardian article:

"Blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is not poisonous but probably twice as dangerous. It is considered to be bad luck to bring the blossom indoors, mainly, I think, because the crown of thorns was reputed to be made from blackthorn. If so, ouch. The thorns are very long and very sharp and have a habit of breaking off under the skin and then going septic. I also, by the by, read that Black Rod, he of the door-knocking in parliament, is so called because he carries a knocking rod made from blackthorn. Case proven."

View attachment 76029

Yikes. If pain doesn't resolve, think I'd return to ER for an Xray to make sure a piece of that isn't buried deep. Warm, moist heat may help while healing. Best wishes!
GASP! and shudder.
and thank you soo much for also posting this picture/article.
that settles it: culprit is now properly ID'd.
(The leaves of photo are identical with leaves of that bush in question.)
I had a hunch that it might be black-thorn, but wasn't sure.
Very interesting also the added info regarding the 'bad luck' thingy to bring the blossoms indoors, and 'door knocking in parliament'.
after reading all this i am even more relieved/grateful that pain is subsiding, the wound looks 'good' and not infected, and i can wiggle toes/move foot a bit better, etc.
Those thorns really seem to be a league on their own. Never shall look at thorns again 'casually' but with deepened , albeit enforced respect.
Thank you all for the very interesting pointers and info. MUCH appreciated.
C
 
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taigirl

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2019
Greetings and Ola'
I researched the forum postings - hoping to find insights /shares by someone who experienced a deep-puncture wound and what had helped, how strong pain-level, time to heal, etc.
As I wasn't lucky finding collective pilgrim wisdom and hope to be forgiven to pose a question on this subject.
background:
  • a long, hard thorn (inch or longer, probably black-thorn bush or other prunus shrub) went through the soles of my shoe/sandal and pierced into the ball of foot below the two smallest toes.
  • Intense instant pain, muscles seems to cramp, swelling of front part of foot into toes, etc.
  • I seemed to have succeeded in removing all organic matter and the entry wound area is clean and not 'ragged' or torn. ER doc confirmed my findings.
  • used disinfect wipes, anti-biotic creme, arnica, hypericum, ledum, rescue-remedy, pain-meds, whatever i could think of.
  • I spent a few hours in the ER, was told to rest, elevate foot, observe if swelling or reddening spreads towards or above ankle (i.e. then return to ER) and 'let nature takes its course'. no icing or warm-packs recommended either. but to continue w/ arnica creme for e.g.
YIKES ... I am pretty pain-tolerant, not-accident prone, in professional life i was trained to work with very sharp tools/blades and definitely am not careless, and walked camino sans a single blister (true story) - but this puncture foot wound has catapulted me into a new realm of pain experience (perhaps i was thus far more of a burns, scrapes, cut-wounds sorta girl, and am familiar with those healing processes, but now utterly clueless about deep puncture wounds, and frankly am blown-away how frigging painful this is, and every micro movement triggers more pain.)

Thus, my question is - based on your experience (perhaps also from your military/police work, medical observation, garden work, etc) What could be expected in the healing process, timing, etc ? Today I can move about a wee bit better than yesterday. So, there is a slight improvement. And i can move toes a few millimeters back'n'forth without hitting the ceiling. That's improvement as well.
Still - when/if 'walking' it's veryyyy snail-paced. Using my Camino poles indoors too as I don't have crutches.
(ah, am a non-smoker, no NCD or any other illnesses that would impair wound-healing)

one 'invention' which proves to be helpful I am happy to share: as due to swelling, no shoes/sandal fit, but i don't want to move about barefoot or plain socks, I composed an impromptu 'wooly shoe'.

  • Using one pair of thick wool socks, and a pair of silicon insoles (Laurie/peregrina2000 might remember our '2014 discussion' of the benefit of those beauties:cool: ) - i wear the right sock on the right foot, place the TWO silicon insoles over the socked sole of foot, then pull the other, left sock, over the right foot as well, and voila' - the hobbles and wobbles are a wee bit less painful.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Very best wishes - and blessed Pentecost weekend to one and all.
Saluti
C
The absolute best thing to speed healing is Calendula. Calendula cream or ointment will do but if you can, get hold of fresh flowers and make a strong tea to bathe your foot with. Arnica pillules will help the internal bruising and swelling.
 

Kiwi-d

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances Sep/Oct 2014
My Irish mother-in-law would have applied a bread poultice by pouring boiling water over bread then placing this over the wound as hot as the patient could bear before bandaging and leaving overnight. The relief next day was wonderful as the poultice drew out any nasties.
 

Felice

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
SJPP to Santiago Sept 2014
I would have sat with my foot in a bowl of hot water with loads of salt added to it.

When we lived in Oman, we had several mesquite trees around the house, which required regular major pruning. They have long sharp thorns similar to blackthorn, which were usually covered in dust. My hands and arms would end up covered in scratches and pricks. Many would have the tiny end of a thorn left in them and I would spend an uncomfortable few days waiting for the skin to expel the end in a drop of liquid or puss. These tiny wounds hurt so I dread to think what a deep wound feels like.
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
My Irish mother-in-law would have applied a bread poultice by pouring boiling water over bread then placing this over the wound as hot as the patient could bear before bandaging and leaving overnight. The relief next day was wonderful as the poultice drew out any nasties.
Oh how brilliant. Never heard of that bread version of poultice. Another cherished item in the bag of tricks’n’wonders.
May i ask what kind of bread is required for best effect ( i.e. plain wheat bread or a mix-of grains? Or does it not matter?)
Many thanks to all for great suggestions and pointers , c
 
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henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
I had to look up what a Blackthorn bush is and found this in a 2003 Guardian article:

"Blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is not poisonous but probably twice as dangerous. It is considered to be bad luck to bring the blossom indoors, mainly, I think, because the crown of thorns was reputed to be made from blackthorn. If so, ouch. The thorns are very long and very sharp and have a habit of breaking off under the skin and then going septic. I also, by the by, read that Black Rod, he of the door-knocking in parliament, is so called because he carries a knocking rod made from blackthorn. Case proven."

View attachment 76029

Yikes. If pain doesn't resolve, think I'd return to ER for an Xray to make sure a piece of that isn't buried deep. Warm, moist heat may help while healing. Best wishes!


When in Bethlehem several years ago there was a row of stalls selling religious artefacts - fragments of the true cross, complete set of Joseph’s chisels etc. But most common - as clearly fabricated locally - were crowns of thorns. I bought one for my mother. Not only did she refuse to wear it, she suggested that I insert it somewhere anatomically impossible.

I have had multiple blackthorn thorns in hands and elsewhere whilst hedging. Not good.
 
Last edited:

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
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The absolute best thing to speed healing is Calendula. Calendula cream or ointment will do but if you can, get hold of fresh flowers and make a strong tea to bathe your foot with. Arnica pillules will help the internal bruising and swelling.
It would appear that there is no good scientific evidence to support these grand claims. See: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-235/calendula and https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-721/arnica.
 

henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)

chinacat

Veteran Member
The absolute best thing to speed healing is Calendula. Calendula cream or ointment will do but if you can, get hold of fresh flowers and make a strong tea to bathe your foot with. Arnica pillules will help the internal bruising and swelling.

Care should be taken with Calendula.
It can heal a wound so quickly, that it seals infection/bacteria inside, under the new skin.
A friend’s little girl had septicaemia after her mum used Calendula cream on a small wound.
Always ensure any wound is clean, before using Calendula ointment!

Edit:
Homeopathic Ledum is also useful for puncture wounds, especially those with bruising.
It’s from wild rosemary, so ‘like for like’ seems to apply here. 😉
 
Last edited:
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Kiwi-d

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances Sep/Oct 2014
Oh how brilliant. Never heard of that bread version of poultice. Another cherished item in the bag of tricks’n’wonders.
May i ask what kind of bread is required for best effect ( i.e. plain wheat bread or a mix-of grains? Or does it not matter?)
Many thanks to all for great suggestions and pointers , c
Back in the days I'm referring to it was plain white bread - this was before sliced bread even. We'd never heard of such fancy bread as mixed grain. :)
 

Albertagirl

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Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
I have been considering the consequences of getting the mixed grains in the wound. Plain white bread seems less likely to cause problems, if one is inclined to use such remedies.
 

mikebet

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
SJPdP to Pamplona (2016); Baiona to Santiago (2018); Sarria to Santiago (2018)
Back when I was in Army training near Boston I took a walk in the woods wearing (stupidly) just sandals. Stepped in a stick and got a puncture wound in the arch of one foot. It hurt quite a bit so I went on sick call after a few days to see what was wrong. The medic probed around in the hole for a while, pronounced it empty, and gave me a topical antibacterial cream. A few days later when it began to swell noticeably I squeezed the spot and out popped a decent-sized twig. So ya' never know what's still in there.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2018
It would appear that there is no good scientific evidence to support these grand claims. See: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-235/calendula and https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-721/arnica.
There is, however, scientific evidence that placebos work. Unfortunately, they only seem to work when people don't consider them placebos. If people let themselves believe you when you discredit them, they lose the real benefits they were bringing.

So pay no attention when people seek to discredit those remedies that you know are working for you.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
I have a close friendship with someone whose faith in 'alternative remedies' is unshakable. But this does not seem to help her to manage her joint pain. However, I can assure you that she she will stick to her belief in dietary remedies for everything. And try to convince everyone she meets of the hazards of pharmaceuticals, even while she is eagerly applying my arthritis ointment to her sore leg in quantities excessive to the recommended dosage.
 
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amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
Back in the days I'm referring to it was plain white bread - this was before sliced bread even. We'd never heard of such fancy bread as mixed grain. :)
Super - thanks for clarifying. Didn't want to presume... appreciate the response. Cheers, C
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
Back when I was in Army training near Boston I took a walk in the woods wearing (stupidly) just sandals. Stepped in a stick and got a puncture wound in the arch of one foot. It hurt quite a bit so I went on sick call after a few days to see what was wrong. The medic probed around in the hole for a while, pronounced it empty, and gave me a topical antibacterial cream. A few days later when it began to swell noticeably I squeezed the spot and out popped a decent-sized twig. So ya' never know what's still in there.
yikes - that was the sort of scenario i had envisioned simply based on the pain in the first few days.
Mercifully, all particles got out, and today, day VI, i managed to step/move without hiking-pole for the most part. Am confident it will continue to improve based on the observations/development thus far.
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
There is, however, scientific evidence that placebos work. Unfortunately, they only seem to work when people don't consider them placebos. If people let themselves believe you when you discredit them, they lose the real benefits they were bringing.

So pay no attention when people seek to discredit those remedies that you know are working for you.
one of my swiss docs here pointed me to a books and articles regarding findings that placebos even do work when declared as placebos. fascinating stuff..
here are some
cheers - c
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2018
one of my swiss docs here pointed me to a books and articles regarding findings that placebos even do work when declared as placebos. fascinating stuff..
here are some
cheers - c
I live and learn. Maybe its because people have learned how effective placebos are, so even when they know they are placebos they expect them to be effective. That seems to be the case according to the study described in the second article. They needed the added education on the benefits of the placebo for it to work.

So still pay no attention to the people who are trying to discredit the remedies that are working for you, unless you can convince yourself they will continue to work as placebos.
 
Last edited:

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011, 2019. CP (tbc)
So still pay no attention to the people who are trying to discredit the remedies that are working for you, unless you can convince yourself they will continue to work as placebos.
In the particular circumstances in which I alerted members to an alternative source of information about the efficacy of a homeopathic treatment recommended by another forum member, this appears to be advice that is itself best ignored. My reasons for thinking this are:
  • the original claim was that a particular product was
    The absolute best thing to speed healing
    (emphasis added)
    • I pointed to a WebMD article that stated
      (product) is commonly used for wounds, rashes, infection, inflammation, and many other conditions. However, there is not strong evidence to support the use of (product) for these uses.
  • while there is an emerging body of evidence that there is a useful placebo effect, it appears to be strongest for self-reported observations of disease conditions, eg pain. To quote from one of the articles that @amorfati1 discovered
    placebos won’t work for every medical situation—for example, they can’t lower cholesterol or cure cancer. But they can work for conditions that are defined by “self-observation” symptoms like pain, nausea, or fatigue.
    • I conclude from this that it is unlikely that there will any improvement in the speed of healing from any placebo effect of using this particular homeopathic product for that purpose.
  • There is no suggestion that the person recommending this product was using it and finding it effective. That is, at best, an inference. As a consequence, there has been no suggestion that someone should stop using a remedy that has been working effectively for an individual. Even if one might infer from @David Tallan's posts here that such a suggestion has been made, it hasn't.
  • Further, my own earlier post did not make any recommendation about whether or not to use the product. Anyone who infers from @David Tallan's posts here that I did is wrong to do so. That post clearly left it to the OP or anyone else considering using this particular homeopathic product to review an alternative, reliable and factual source before making their own decision about using it.
 
Last edited:
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Year of past OR future Camino
Norte (2017-18)
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Frances (2014)
UPDATE: 🦶 👣 🌺 🙏 Mucho Thanks to one and all who were so kind to take time, consideration, and offered their suggestions, links and insights. It truly helped me to assess and gauge all this much better.
Even just the affirmation that deep puncture wounds are very painful is helpful.
And yes, apparently a small nerve was struck as well as per ER doc. Luckily No findings of remaining fragments inside wound, time will tell ... good news is there is no 'liquid leakage' of any kind or colouration.
AND ... late afternoon yesterday i remembered reading about another homeopathic remedy "Silicea", said to help the skin to expel splinters and such. Thought it might work in this situation as well, and after taking a dosage of those globuli, i was thrilled to notice that the pain-level dropped considerably within 10-20 minutes after 45hrs of very strong pain /discomfort.
Was stunning to observe how swiftly it changed for the better. And am much relieved as I still hobble and wobble about, but def more mobile, less agony.
[a caution though w/ this remedy: it's said that Silicea is also known to help loosen other fragments under skin/inside body. So, for folks w/ dental implants, screws in bones, etc ... might be advisable only to take Silicea after consulting a homeopathic doc. Who knew? Interesting topic for sure.]
Again, thank you much for your generosity of spirit! C
The one thing I would contribute is this: don't let the wound weal off too quick. (Having a sealed off pouch of infection is bad.) DH impaled his knuckle on a yucca (Spanish Dagger for those who know) and his hand swelled up like a baseball. The word from our GP was, besides a refresh on the tetanus shot) soak it in hot water from time to time--I forget the interval--and pour hydrogen peroxide on at the end of the soak. He said the knuckle joint has poor blood flow by nature and so one wants to both increase the blood flow and also bubble out any particle from the dirty thorn. By extrapolation, you might want to soak the foot in hot (not quite too hot for you) water for like 10 minutes or so, then pour peroxide over and cap off with antibiotic ointment. I can't remember the exact type but the triple stuff is what I mean. After a few days, should clear up. HTH
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Year of past OR future Camino
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
I live and learn. Maybe its because people have learned how effective placebos are, so even when they know they are placebos they expect them to be effective. That seems to be the case according to the study described in the second article. They needed the added education on the benefits of the placebo for it to work.

So still pay no attention to the people who are trying to discredit the remedies that are working for you, unless you can convince yourself they will continue to work as placebos.

The test would be to use a placebo on an injured animal.
 

Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018)-Frances, Baztan, San Salvador, Primitivo, Fisterra,VdlP, Madrid
Keep that foot warm - my daughter sliced her foot on glass six weeks ago and needed five stitches. They came out after two weeks - but it was too early and the wound opened. A doctor put on steristrips (because they had run out of glue - roll eyes) and advised removing the dressing and leaving it open during the day - she ended up with chilblains from being cold!!
 

pelerine

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
I had to look up what a Blackthorn bush is and found this in a 2003 Guardian article:

"Blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is not poisonous but probably twice as dangerous. It is considered to be bad luck to bring the blossom indoors, mainly, I think, because the crown of thorns was reputed to be made from blackthorn. If so, ouch. The thorns are very long and very sharp and have a habit of breaking off under the skin and then going septic. I also, by the by, read that Black Rod, he of the door-knocking in parliament, is so called because he carries a knocking rod made from blackthorn. Case proven."

View attachment 76029

Yikes. If pain doesn't resolve, think I'd return to ER for an Xray to make sure a piece of that isn't buried deep. Warm, moist heat may help while healing. Best wishes!

I have nothing to contribute as far as remedies are concerned. But not knowing what Blackthorn was I saw the photo - ah, sloe! As in sloe gin!
 
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