Did you have a plan?

[LesBrass]

Hello again

Another walk and another questions... how much did you plan before you walked?

I've found a few tools online that can calculate how far you walk each day and what accommodation is available and a quick search on google provides lots and lots information... but I was wondering is there much point in planning too much?

I like to be organised but I'm thinking that maybe there's no point as my feet/legs will tell me if I need to stop... or the weather... or a group of new friends and so on. I've booked my first night at Orrison and there are a few places that I would like to visit en-route... and I have the time to take my time... and ultimately my big aim is simply to get to Santiago in one piece but out of curiosity...

Did you know where you would stay overnight ... even just for the first few nights?
Did you book hotel/accommodation in advance before you left?
If you did plan... did you stick to the plan or was it pointless once you started walking?

Just curious to see how others managed their walk

 

[november_moon]

We are going in June, so like you, we are newbies. Normally I am a planner, but this time we aren't planning much at all. The lack of a plan is an intentional part of the Camino for me - to be able to just go and figure things out along the way. It's a personal growth opportunity We planned were we will start (Leon) based on how many days we have, how long we estimate we will walk per day on average, and a bit of slack for contingencies. We will have a hotel reservation in Leon. Beyond that, there is no plan except to get to Santiago in about 15 days.

 

[LesBrass]

Hi November-Moon - we're thinking alike. The organiser within me is desperate to create a spreadsheet, plan the route, mark the accommodation... load the spreadsheet onto the phone and so on and so on But there in my head there is someone shaking their own head and tutting and telling me that I have to just let it go... and I am listening that person

 

[mspath]

Les Brass,

During nine Caminos totaling more than 450 nights on the path I have NEVER booked a room in advance except just before arrival in Santiago de Compostela. I usually stay in pilgrim albergues. Walking out of season it is always a GREAT pleasure to arrive at a welcoming albergue, take a HOT shower, chat with any other pilgrims (often I am alone) and collapse in clean comfort on a bottom bunk. It may be cold but there are plenty of bunks!

On my first camino in 2004 I carried the CSJ Guide to the Camino Frances; since then my only guide is memory and the handy free list of albergues provided by the Amis du Chemin de St Jacques in Saint Jean Pied de Port where I start. Each morning I tentatively plan where I hope to stop but happenstance as well as weather, sickness, accidents and simple exhaustion all can impact on any preset "plans". Each pilgrimage has evolved into a rich mix of old friends and new composed of fellow pilgrims and those along the way who offered hope and help, smiles and hugs, conversation and hospitality. Such shared serendipity is a continual precious gift.

Buen Camino,

Margaret Meredith

 

[Metropolly]

I have completed several Caminos now, all done with minimal planning. I have usually set off more or less on the spur of the moment, as and when I found the time, and rarely knew more than a day in advance where I'd be staying on any given night. I was always the worst-prepared pilgrim wherever I went, but it gave me a certain sense of freedom. Coming from the UK, as I do, and from France as you do, we can afford to be more flexible than those who fly half-way round the world and have a non-exchangeable return ticket as an ever-present deadline. If you only make it as far as Sarria this time, you can pop back for a weekend saunter to Santiago later in the year!

 

[whariwharangi]

I went from deciding to go to departure in less than a month. The hard part was sorting through the gear I would normally take on a hiking trip and leaving a lot of it behind. I couldn't get objective information on how cold it might get, particularly in the albergues, and so couldn't decide on how much gear would be needed; this forum is great but there are a lot of conflicting opinions. The long issues were getting credential and guidebook. I already had my passport.

I worked it out in detail departure from home to arrival at SJPdP including first night accomodation. Plans nearly went awry due to a labour strike affecting my flight to Biarritz Airport.

I had done a map recce before leaving and knew I had to go from SJPdP to Roncesvalle the first day of walking.

I figured on 20km per day based on experience with hiking. So that was the extent of planning before I went.

From there planning was by the day ... and the main factors were because I was walking late in the year I had to be careful to end days in places with accomodations that were open and not have an extremely long day following. So usually I knew where I would try to stop before leaving an albergue in the morning. Sometimes I knew how far I would try to go in the next two days. The guidebook and the accomodation sheet I received from the pilgrim office were invaluable.

I am lucky in that I had no time constraints or fixed date for finishing; I planned to stay in Europe for 90 days.

There are two military axioms. One is from Sun Tzu who states "now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought." The other is that a plan never survives the moment of contact with the enemy. So its important to plan so you get the gear and the information you need (in particular a good time appreciation so you don't have to rush the last few days) ... but to have a detailed and fixed plan is not the best idea ... it needs to be flexible.

 

[LesBrass]

Thanks for the great replies... feeling excited... such a long wait until September

 

[Anniesantiago]

Thanks for the great replies... feeling excited... such a long wait until September

It's doing it again. Can't post directly.

Anyway…

I usually plan WAY too much, then in the end I just do my own thing.
On routes other than the Frances, or when I have a group, I do book lodging ahead.
But when I'm alone, I generally just take my chances.

 

[gerardcarey]

Walked with an 87yr old German lady.
Her philosophy;
"Let yellow arrows show you the way, and your feet tell you how far".

Regds
Gerard

 

[WildPlace]

I walked September to October 2013 and booked Orisson for the first night which was a good idea. My friend and I booked ahead just a handful of times - usually when we wanted a hotel night so that we could have a good long soak in a bath or stay somewhere for a couple of nights. It was fairly busy along the way but we were firmly of the opinion that "the Camino will provide" and it never failed to!

It was great not to have to worry about making a certain destination. If our feet or legs ached or we decided we liked somewhere that we were travelling through and wanted to explore the place further we had the freedom to be able to stop and do that.

Buen camino for September!

 

[november_moon]

The hard part was sorting through the gear I would normally take on a hiking trip and leaving a lot of it behind

My family used to backpack a lot (my parents took me on my first backpacking trip before I could walk). This past weekend my mom was asking about my prep for the Camino and what sort of gear was I going to take - did I have a list, how was the acquisition of gear going, etc. She commented that since I don't backpack like we used to, I'd have to buy or borrow gear. She is having a hard time getting her head around the idea of taking a hiking vacation and only taking clothes, a sleeping bag, and a few personal items - no "gear" to speak of. In fact, I don't think she believes me that this is all a person needs.

 

[Agnogel]

Hi I am starting my camino on the 27th of August you may just overtake me as i am not a good walker i booked Esprit de Charmin for my arrival in St Jean and Orrison for the first day of walking after that i am leaving it in the hands of St James and my guardian angel so far he has looked after myself quiet well even saved my bacon a few times, When i started my planning i had to call a halt to it as it was going to make my camino very predictable and as this will be one of my biggest challenges in life i quiet fancy the spirit of adventure, Also i have not booked my return flight home so i dont have an agenda to follow i will arrive in Santagio when i am good and ready to do so and not a moment sooner. I ride a motorcycle for one of my hobbies and have found just following the road has lead me to some of the best experiences that will stay with me for life, I hope your camino does the same for you,
Buen Camino
Peter

 

[MeganG22]

Hi Les-
I think you have the right idea, knowing that your feet will dictate your walk more, along with weather and people, etc. I tried so hard to know as much as could before I left and then when I returned I looked back in my first posts with laughter- what was I so worried about??

Since you're walking in September, it shouldn't be necessary for you to book anywhere in advance, and would just be something if you wanted the security of knowing where you would stay. The problem I imagine with booking in advance are the uncertainties: what if you start getting a painful twinge and want to stop earlier? What if you get to the place and don't like it or you want to keep walking or you just want to stay somewhere else in town with people you met?

The only time I wish I had booked ahead was in Burgos- I happened to get into town on a weekend and there were TONS of weddings and events happening and the hotels I stopped at (at least 6 or 7) were all booked! I stayed in the albergue which I ended up loving, but normally in the larger towns I treated myself to a private room. I think it's smart to know about any festivals or things like that which are coming up just in case they affect accommodation, but otherwise you'll be fine!

I think the best you can do is overall research and know what you're getting into, but otherwise just let go and let the Way dictate your journey.

Buen Camino -Megan

 

[Thengel1]

My plan was intricately detailed:

1. Start walking from SJPDP.
2. Walk to Santiago de Compostela, following the arrows of the Camino Frances.
3. Stop

I would get up each morning with approximate idea of how far I would walk and where I would stop. Not infrequently, I wouldn't even stick to that. One day, I had stopped and checked into an albergue for a few hours, got cleaned up and rested, and then walked some more. (this was in April, not high summer)

Oddly enough, the one plan I did make, to stop in Orisson on my first day, didn't pan out since the Route Napoleon was closed.

 

[tploomis]

We booked Esprit du Chemin at St. Jean Pied de Port (a wonderful albergue) for our first night and booked Hotel Orrison part way up the Pyrenees, doing both reservations because of warnings on this website that booking was a good idea. After that we never booked anything. Usually at the beginning of the day we would have some idea what town we would end up that night, but sometimes went less or more. We would usually start looking in the Brierley guide when entering a town we wanted to stay in to get ideas of what accommodations were available. Most often we would just check out a place that looked interesting, usually ending up staying. I loved not planning ahead or worrying about making reservations. We were walking the Camino Frances between late September and early November, a great time to walk.

 

[Mary E Davison]

I have hiked long distance hikes (300-500 miles) a couple times a year for the last 8 years or so. Contrary to almost everyone else who does long distance hiking, I do plan in a fairly detailed way. But then, I have always been a section hiker with an airline or other transportation to catch so I have had to make sure I end up in the right spot at the right time. I usually am pretty close to my plan. But the plan is often adjusted. I just prefer to adjust it by hiking farther than planned instead of less than planned so I don't get too far off my end schedule. Since I am 72 with various ailments and limitations related to age I also plan in order to have a pretty good idea if I can accomplish what I plan. I can't just "make it up" at the end in the way younger or stronger hikers do.

This walk is considerably different than AT, PCT or CDT. The availability of accomodations is amazing! However, other than reservations with Corazon Puro on way to SJPDP and Orisson I do not plan on making reservations. My planning is mainly regarding distance and terrain in consideration of what I know I can do. I understand from some posts here and other journals I have read that I may have to make a few reservations closer to Santiago. I will play that by ear as I go.

 

[Metropolly]

Hello again. You've probably got the message now that you've no need to worry, and that the Camino provides. My first Camino, from Le Puy, was also my least prepared. It was a more or less spontaneous decision to walk it and I knew nothing about the Camino, other than it exists and where it ends. I didn't even know about the morning pilgrim mass, and turned up at the cathedral mid-morning, several hours after everyone had been blessed and started on their way. Not even knowing which direction I had to walk in, I was led to the top of the cathedral steps where one of the nuns smilingly pointed down the long, long road: 'That way. And just keep following the red-and-white flashes." I bought guide books as I went (thus improving my reading French while walking!) and walked til it was dark most days. I always found a bed somewhere. Because I had so little idea of what to expect, every day was a magical discovery. It is probably the most beautiful of all the paths anyway, but it remains my best Camino

 

[PANO]

To do at last something without any planning was my reason for doing the CF in the first place, and it was wonderful. Of course the rucksack had to be packed and accordingly, some thoughts had to be invested, likewise with the logistics of getting the the starting point, but other than that, there was this complete freedom of just walking and never to think of what lied ahead at the end of each day; sometimes a short and at other time a long day, just as it happened. For me, this was the essential of the Camino. Only when I decided to do some forwarding of my backpack on the last quarter of the way (it got crowded), it made sense to also reserve for the nights. The CF is so well walked that there is hardly any reason or need to plan, its all there.

 

[MKalcolm M]

I walked the Norte this spring, with very minimal planning and no guide book. It allowed for great freedom to vary things as I went along, and let me join up with other pilgrims as I felt like it, or walk on alone if that felt better. I will never plan a day to day camino, as this removes the ability to be open to whatever comes along.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

this removes the ability to be open to whatever comes along

Only if you are rigid in following it!

 

[domigee]

Hello again

Another walk and another questions... how much did you plan before you walked?

I've found a few tools online that can calculate how far you walk each day and what accommodation is available and a quick search on google provides lots and lots information... but I was wondering is there much point in planning too much?

I like to be organised but I'm thinking that maybe there's no point as my feet/legs will tell me if I need to stop... or the weather... or a group of new friends and so on. I've booked my first night at Orrison and there are a few places that I would like to visit en-route... and I have the time to take my time... and ultimately my big aim is simply to get to Santiago in one piece but out of curiosity...

Did you know where you would stay overnight ... even just for the first few nights?
Did you book hotel/accommodation in advance before you left?
If you did plan... did you stick to the plan or was it pointless once you started walking?

Just curious to see how others managed their walk

I had only planned the 1st night in St Jean - booked l'Esprit du Chemin - and the 2nd - Orrisson.
Both pointless! I had told L'esprit du chemin I was arriving late afternoon but didn't phone them back just before so they didn't keep my booking.....
Then arrived at Orrisson much too early the following day so ended up cancelling!

 

[naplesdon]

I am in total agreement with PANO that at the very least you must plan what to pack and the logistics of getting to your starting point. Once you are there everything should be a blank slate, that being said I for one don't want to spend my first night stuck between SJPdP and Roncesvalles sleeping al fresco in a snowstorm. So this year I booked Orrison for the first time. I will freely admit I do a minimal amount of forecasting about how far I would like to get on a particular day but I also appreciate the vagaries of the weather, so any day I walk between 5 and 20 kms is a success. I plan on 7 km rest days once a week so I can put my feet up and do laundry and/or dry out the contents of my back pack. I also plan for shorter walking days after I reach Sarria just to avoid the predictable rush for beds and then 2 or 3 days before I know I'll reach Santiago I make a reservation for 2 nights. My only goal is to see the Botafumeiro on Friday, everything else is accidental and incidental.

 

[Alena]

Hello Les Brass, we did minimal planning and I am glad we did. Of course, I exclude, the transport to the starting point (airplanes, buses, etc.) and back home. Apart from that, no reservations anywhere on the Camino, even no information which albergues to avoid or not to miss. We carried the list with all the albergues, though, you can find it on this website, as it is really good to know how many km you have until you reach the next village with a place to stay.
For me, one of the lovely charms of the Camino is exactly the unknown - waking up every day, knowing that you are off to a new place you have no idea about. It is so refreshing. With small exceptions, we slept in wonderful albergues, and we chose them on the spur of the moment. The only time we missed the way was out of Villafranca del Bierzo when there's an alternative way, but that was due to the fact we started at dark (and we almost missed the alternative route after Triacastela for the very same reason).
In the tourist office in Santiago, before setting off to Finisterre we were given some materials and from then I knew what lay ahead of me - like, for example, 5 km. of rapid ascent and so on. Knowing did not do any good to my motivation
But, of course, this is so individual. Some people love planning and enjoy knowing they have their journey scheduled. It also depends on the season you are walking in. We were walking in September - so - many many people to ask if you have any doubts.

 

[wonzi]

When my granddaughter and I left last May, we were hoping to be in France the following day but as we were flying stand-by, that plan went to the wayside. That was the only thing we had "planned"! However, it took us to Ireland and then Paris and then SJPP and I must say, it was a great beginning for a 75 yr and 23 yr old couple! And, then, it was get up, walk, eat, walk, eat, drink, and sleep. We just stopped when the older one got tired - and she averaged 15 miles per day! Oh, those young feet on the 23 year old! I just want to go back one more time! Enjoy every bit of your Camino.

 

[RobertS26]

I like to be organised but I'm thinking that maybe there's no point as my feet/legs will tell me if I need to stop... or the weather... or a group of new friends and so on.

You got it. The more you try to control the Camino, the louder it laughs in your face. The Camino is to be experienced, not planned. I now realize that there are only a couple of things you really need to do before you go: get properly fitted by a professional for the right backpack, get properly fitted by a professional for the right boots, and break the boots in before you go. The Camino will teach you, and provide you, with the rest.

 

[lynnejohn]

I like the idea of serendipity, but planning for particular situations is now necessary for me. I prepare an outline which allows me to identify and plan ahead for holiday/fiesta weekends, and for making alternate plans for stages without accommodation that are too long for us to walk (>30 km).

 

[Carol06]

Just walk and do what your body says. I could not think of anything worse than having to walk my Camino to a schedule.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

walk my Camino to a schedule

Everyone agrees with that, I think. One of the stresses of the pilgrimage is the scheduled plane to be met at the end (by most on this Forum). However, a schedule is not the same as a plan. A plan can show you where you need to be to meet that plane, reducing that stress. Even when you are off-plan, it is a useful gauge. Yes, anyone rigidly sticking to plan can create difficulties for himself, but that is a matter of how one uses the plan, not making one. I don't think anyone wants to fly with an airline pilot who has no plan, even if crosswinds take him off that plan occasionally.

 

[Metropolly]

Horses for courses, I think - some plan, some don't. There are pros and cons to both approaches. But rest assured that having/not having a plan will not spoil your Camino. (The rain will do that. And the blisters. Plan to bring a cape, and good socks!)

 

[RobertS26]

But rest assured that having/not having a plan will not spoil your Camino.

Most of us have a "plan" because we have a known distance to cover in a known time. For me, I had to average 12.5 miles a day to catch my flight. But that did not mean that I walked 12.5 miles each day. Some days were 21 miles and other days were 5 miles. What made me sad for some people was there obsession to stick to their highly planned, D-Day invasion styled, this is exactly where I have to be, schedules. Sure, each night I scouted out the next day in my guide book, but I was more than ready to change plans during the day when I found a particular village appealing or the weather not suitable to walk a long distance. I am not trying to discourage planning, but high-centering over minute details and obsessing about what has to be accomplished each day seems to diminish the magic of the Camino for some.

 

[Metropolly]

Most of us have a "plan" because we have a known distance to cover in a known time. For me, I had to average 12.5 miles a day to catch my flight. But that did not mean that I walked 12.5 miles each day. Some days were 21 miles and other days were 5 miles. What made me sad for some people was there obsession to stick to their highly planned, D-Day invasion styled, this is exactly where I have to be, schedules. Sure, each night I scouted out the next day in my guide book, but I was more than ready to change plans during the day when I found a particular village appealing or the weather not suitable to walk a long distance. I am not trying to discourage planning, but high-centering over minute details and obsessing about what has to be accomplished each day seems to diminish the magic of the Camino for some.

Agreed - but what I think the original poster is seeking here is reassurance that she is setting out on the Camino with the appropriate level of prepared-ness. And it seems to me that, as it is clear that there is no accepted 'standard' of preparedness, she and all other first-timers are good to go!

 

[RobertS26]

I was talking about pre-Camino preparedness. As I posted earlier, there really is only three things you have to do before leaving: get properly fitted for you backpack by a professional, get properly fitted for your boots by a professional, and break in your boots.

Regarding over planning before going, I am reminded of a surgeon I met on the Camino. He had preplanned his Camino to death. He even had pre-booked hotel reservations for the entire Camino. This forced him to spend a small fortune on taxis because he would walk to his pre-booked hotel, then take a taxi backwards to have dinner with friends he had met on the path. After dinner, he would taxi forward. Sometimes where he stayed and where he ate were 40 kilometers apart. I found it comical and sad at the same time.

 

[TheTinkerBell]

No plan, no guidebook, no gadgets, no matter when, no matter where, no rush, no care in the world, no worries...........no looking back.

 

[CaminoKris2013]

Other than booking at SJPDP and Orrisson, I am going to let the Camino provide. I am planning on 40 days, so I am not in a rush. I figure in the beginning, I can allow myself to build up. I just can't believe it is only about 3 months til I start. Anyone else in SJPDP May 26?


Kris

 

[ManyMiles2Go]

Coming from the UK, as I do, and from France as you do, we can afford to be more flexible than those who fly half-way round the world and have a non-exchangeable return ticket as an ever-present deadline.

We are one of those "half-way round the world" pilgrims. After reading this forum and other research, we found that "most" say 33 days is enough time for the Camino. We gave ourselves 45 days, more than enough days for the Camino, and then did some other "touring" at the end. It was a wonderful time, but I was ready to come home at the end

 

[ManyMiles2Go]

You got it. The more you try to control the Camino, the louder it laughs in your face. The Camino is to be experienced, not planned. I now realize that there are only a couple of things you really need to do before you go: get properly fitted by a professional for the right backpack, get properly fitted by a professional for the right boots, and break the boots in before you go. The Camino will teach you, and provide you, with the rest.

Exactly right RobertS26! Besides the gear planning and preparations (fitting, etc.), we had our plane tickets, train tickets to Bayonne from Paris, and first night hotel in Bayonne. After that, it was all "by the seat of our pants". We decided the night before where we would walk to the next day, but even that changed occasionally. You just have to let your body tell you when to stop (or the weather, or whatever). Also, you might come into a village that you would like to do more exploring in and decide to spend the night there. The Camino is an experience, not your normal "vacation" where you want to see specific things while you are there. Enjoy the experience!!

 

[naplesdon]

My only other plan for 2014, if I'm feeling fit after arriving in Santiago, is turning around walking back home.

 

[Geralbc]

All i have "planned" is the first night in Orisson march 31! I'll for with the flow! I do plan of staying extra nights in a few places like burgos and Leon, and i'm considering on getting off the camino from burgos to go to Bilbao! (Being so close, it would be a shame not to go, the Guggenheim there has been on my must see list!)
Holy Week will fall in the middle of my Camino! So i don't know how it will impact my Camino (maybe saying longer at certain places to fully live the religious traditions!)
I've been doing some reading on the places we'll be walking through, and i hope to be able to make the most of the Camino! One step, one arrow at the time!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I think I am reading about a lot of planning by those who say they don't plan on planning!

I try to keep in mind that many pilgrims find a lot of comfort in some planning; it reduces anxiety. I think they know that their plan will change once they are walking, especially if they do much reading on the Forum about unexpected events and physical conditions. I still leave with a Godesalco itinerary even though I pretty much know every turn, town, and bed on the route. And I take Brierley out of habit.

Plan in accordance with your comfort level, then walk in accordance with your comfort level. The two likely will be different.

 

[christer1]

The first time you go you start by planning. Then you realise it is futile and don't do it anymore

Imho.

 

[Olivares]

There are a few questions that you need to answer in order to determine the level of planning you need: 1) are you planning to stay at Albergues, 2) are you planning to carry your own bags?, 3) are you not limited by time?, 4) what time of the year are you going?

If you answer YES to the first 3 and you plan to walk between April-October, your need for level of planning just went down to Basic or none. Othwerswise, an amount of planning is strongly advised.

 

[t2andreo]

Man plans...God laughs...!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

He gets a lot of chuckles out of the unprepared, too!

 

[gerardcarey]

All i have "planned" is the first night in Orisson march 31! I'll for with the flow! I do plan of staying extra nights in a few places like burgos and Leon, and i'm considering on getting off the camino from burgos to go to Bilbao! (Being so close, it would be a shame not to go, the Guggenheim there has been on my must see list!)
Holy Week will fall in the middle of my Camino! So i don't know how it will impact my Camino (maybe saying longer at certain places to fully live the religious traditions!)
I've been doing some reading on the places we'll be walking through, and i hope to be able to make the most of the Camino! One step, one arrow at the time!

I did the train ride Burgos to Bilbao return to view the Guggenheim. Had a one night stay. Good train ride, good city Bilbao, good art gallery.
Who knows when or if we may pass this way again. And a nice little break from walking.

Regds
Gerard

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

Someone already said it, "If you want to make God laugh, make plans". You have the right idea. Pay attention to your feet, forget the plan. The Camino provides...
Buen Camino

 

[OzAnnie]

Hello Les Brass, we did minimal planning and I am glad we did. Of course, I exclude, the transport to the starting point (airplanes, buses, etc.) and back home. Apart from that, no reservations anywhere on the Camino, even no information which albergues to avoid or not to miss. We carried the list with all the albergues, though, you can find it on this website, as it is really good to know how many km you have until you reach the next village with a place to stay.
For me, one of the lovely charms of the Camino is exactly the unknown - waking up every day, knowing that you are off to a new place you have no idea about. It is so refreshing. With small exceptions, we slept in wonderful albergues, and we chose them on the spur of the moment. The only time we missed the way was out of Villafranca del Bierzo when there's an alternative way, but that was due to the fact we started at dark (and we almost missed the alternative route after Triacastela for the very same reason).
In the tourist office in Santiago, before setting off to Finisterre we were given some materials and from then I knew what lay ahead of me - like, for example, 5 km. of rapid ascent and so on. Knowing did not do any good to my motivation
But, of course, this is so individual. Some people love planning and enjoy knowing they have their journey scheduled. It also depends on the season you are walking in. We were walking in September - so - many many people to ask if you have any doubts.

I often wonder how many people miss the way they 'intended' to walk out of Triacastela. Most people I met who walked via Somos had planned to walk the other way and vice versa. (Including me/us). By the time we realised we were on the longer route we weren't turning back. It's all in HIs plan I'm sure. I'm so glad I walked that way. I will one day try the other routes. I'm in that place at the moment / reading the forum and wanting to be back on any part of my walk. I'm lucky though. Just sorted flights for another one in September.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I did the train ride Burgos to Bilbao return to view the Guggenheim.

I took the train from Jaca to Zaragoza and back for an overnight there. It was not in the plan, but it was in my execution of the plan.