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My post was certainly not intended to be in that category!Sorry, for once I can't join in the pity feast/stroke the poor pilgrim party
Fair enoughyou don't want to start arguments with anyone, but you certainly made sure you got your side of the story out there on how you feel about certain Pilgrims,
Thank you for your kindness. Yes over all we had an awesome journey my girls and I. I didn't mention that none of us are young. I am 77 on St. James day, my daughters are 55 & 58. So many people we met in Boredeaux when the French rail strike left us stranded, bonded and over the next month we leap frogged over each other. Many left when the heat wave struck planning on coming back when it was cooler, many others soldiered on to the end.Ultreya... Even your last story had a hardship and a happy ending..... Ultreya...... Willy/Utah/USA
You could learn Spanish (I take it that you have an inability to speak it well?)we are never too old to learn.
This might be true, but let's not jump to conclusions. Turning anger into pity probably helps you get over the disappointment, but there is still room to reflect on the harshness of your own reaction at the start of this post.We and another group who witnessed this happening really now believe this girl could not read. Now I feel badly for her as she has probably been hiding her disability for most of her life and we drew attention to it. With some chagrin, I now feel very sorry for her because now she cannot hide it anymore. This doesn't make her behaviour right but does excuse her inability to understand the stamps in her own language. Maybe now she will go for help as we are never too old to learn. Cjt
Cannot disagree with you more. Many people walk the Camino for many different reasons. There is no requirement to have any religious component. That she was treated in an u acceptable manner is the topic of the thread, not the reasons one walks the Camino. My opinion.Sorry, for once I can't join in the pity feast/stroke the poor pilgrim party, I explain:
The Compostela (which is the correct name for what you call the scroll) is for pilgrims that have done the pilgrimage to the tomb of the apostle in the cathedral for spiritual/religious reasons BUT you only note the physical hardships in your post. It is not about pains, bad weather and blisters, they are a side effect, it is about visiting a holy place no matter the circumstances.
You were proud about your accomplishment, and rightly so, but again, this accomplishment has nothing to do with the pilgrimage or the Compostela.
You write "I drew the most miserable and stupid young woman alive I think. Wicket 13." and you even accuse her of not being able to read ...
And I am speechless, the people in the pilgrims office are, for a large part, volunteers that give/donate their time to serve pilgrims. Are they all perfect saints? Surely not! But describing/ judging them in this manner ...
Did you do this pilgrimage for "the scroll" or something else?
Shaking head, SY
Cannot disagree with you more. Many people walk the Camino for many different reasons. There is no requirement to have any religious component. That she was treated in an u acceptable manner is the topic of the thread, not the reasons one walks the Camino. My opinion.
I think that the OP was indicating that the person she dealt with was working at Wicket 13, i.e. position 13 at the counter.I am not sure what a Wicket 13 may be...but I am sure it is meant to be demeaning. It is never good to demean people who are not able to respond or explain.
Thank you for your kindness. Yes over all we had an awesome journey my girls and I. I didn't mention that none of us are young. I am 77 on St. James day, my daughters are 55 & 58. So many people we met in Boredeaux when the French rail strike left us stranded, bonded and over the next month we leap frogged over each other. Many left when the heat wave struck planning on coming back when it was cooler, many others soldiered on to the end.
At lunch the day we were so upset by this persons behaviour, we discussed it ad nauseum. We and another group who witnessed this happening really now believe this girl could not read. Now I feel badly for her as she has probably been hiding her disability for most of her life and we drew attention to it. With some chagrin, I now feel very sorry for her because now she cannot hide it anymore. This doesn't make her behaviour right but does excuse her inability to understand the stamps in her own language. Maybe now she will go for help as we are never too old to learn. Cjt
my 2 daughters and I started the Camino at St. Jean Pied de Port on June 12, 2016. We ran into cold wet weather for the first week and a bit then the blistering heat of the heat wave. There was a point when I wrote this forum to find out about busses but in the end kept on walking. Finally on the 22 July 2016, my girls walked into Santiago with me hobbling on a damaged knee somewhat behind. We were all so upbeat and proud of our accomplishment until we went to the Pilgrims Office to get our Compostela. My one daughter drew a charming young man who was really interested in her journey. The other daughter drew a man who other than pronouncing her name correctly which is a rarity, was totally indifferent just stamped everything and handed her, her scroll. I drew the most miserable and stupid young woman alive I think. Wicket 13.
We were issued our original passports at the registry office in St. Jean Pied de Port, due to the length of our journey and the number of places we stopped we filled those completely so at a church bought new ones. These too were filling up but still had a little room in them. I handed both passports to her but she refused to look at the first one, kept saying "not enough stamps." I tried, both my daughters tried to explain that the second one started in Palais de Rey but all the other stamps were in the other passport. She obviously could not read as she wouldn't even look at the first one. She absolutely refused me the scroll. Finally my daughter was angry enough to say, we are not leaving until you do the right thing and give my mom the scroll she has earned. It took Kari saying this a few times before she relented and filled it out. This left a really bad taste in all of our mouths. A sad ending instead of the joy we expected. She should never be allowed to deal with the public with her lack of reasoning power. Because of this I cannot wait to get out of this town.
Other members already wrote it more eloquently than I so I just want to add what I am feeling/ thinking..
1. What I always say when these kind of " ethical " posts turn up : A pilgrim asks , a tourist demands ".
2. Feeling a great sadness for that poor girl at the Oficina who clearly is not able to defend herself. Accusing her of not able to read ( which is not a crime really seeing that lots of people on this earth did not have the chance to go to school and learn to read, but that is another story ), I'm pretty sure the Oficina does the screening of their volunteers really well.
3. Thank you to all the Oficina volunteers , some of them also active on this forum , for your brilliant work.
4. When I hear pilgrims take about " customer service " I get really weary. When I buy a car or a new fridge and something is wrong with it I am happy to receive a good customer service to get it fixed.
When I'm on a pilgrimage I'm thankful for whatever good comes on my way and try to adapt to whatever less good crosses my path.
A pilgrim asks , a tourist demands
Just a thought, but had the OP two stamps on her credencial for every day she travelled from Sarria?
Oooh... my mum taught me that if I can't think of anything nice to say then perhaps I should say nothing at all... so sorry mum! But when I see this quote pop up on the forum I always find it just a little bit patronising or condescending?
I'm sorry @SabineP as I am sure that is not what you meant and I'm sure that you're intentions are 100% kind... but am I the only one? And if so crikey what does that say about me?!
(I'll get my coat now)
p.s. I'm with @peregrina2000
What inquiring minds would like to know now: do you have two stamps per day in your pilgrim's passport, starting in Palas de Rei (which I guess is the place you mean) or not?the second one started in Palais de Rey but all the other stamps were in the other passport. She obviously could not read as she wouldn't even look at the first one.
From Sarria with two fully stamped credentials ?Brilliant deduction! The requirement for a compostela is 2 stamps a day from Sarria. It certainly sounds as though that is what the girl behind the counter was looking for, and said "not enough stamps". According to the rules she had every right to refuse the compostela. I think most volunteers will waive the rule when they can plainly see the pilgrim has walked from St Jean, but if the girl is new, and that is the rule . . . .
A pilgrim is not looking for a transaction. It is one sided. He gets only what he puts into it. If he is lucky enough to get something from someone, he is grateful.But when I see this quote pop up on the forum I always find it just a little bit patronising or condescending?
From Sarria with to fully stamped credentials ?
Well it is a quote that is used regularly on this forum and I will stand by it.
On the Camino I am a pilgrim and do not expect anything.
On a holiday I am a tourist.
I"d have to agree... it sounds like a misunderstanding of the two stamp rule yet I wonder, why the daughters had no issues!Just a thought, but had the OP two stamps on her credencial for every day she travelled from Sarria?
Maybe they went to more bars than their mother ...I"d have to agree... it sounds like a misunderstanding of the two stamp rule yet I wonder, why the daughters had no issues!
This isn't necessary for Pilgrims coming from much further away. There are some good threads elsewhere on the forum about rules for stamps: see JohnnyWalker's posts.Just a thought, but had the OP two stamps on her credencial for every day she travelled from Sarria?
This isn't necessary for Pilgrims coming from much further away.
So true! And we need to be able to forgive ourselves as well as others.I have been following this thread as I looked for a resident of my apartment to apologize for losing my temper with her earlier this week. I lost my control and blasted at someone. I can easily see why the OP may have done so. Exhaustion and physical pain, as described by the OP, may not be excuses for losing one's temper, but certainly are reasons. Many pilgrims go beyond their physical capacities to finish their pilgrimage. They are exhausted, in pain, maybe confused at the procedures of the Pilgrim's Office and unable to communicate with the assistant. We can speculate as to the details of this particular interaction, but we were not there and cannot understand. Perhaps we cannot even understand why we sometimes give up control and blast off. I suggest that the conclusion of a long and difficult physical effort may explain why such a break can happen, without having to justify it. I regret to say that, as a pilgrim, I am no better person than I am as a tourist, and no worse. I try, and sometimes fail, to be the best I can in all situations. Late yesterday, I ran into the person at whom I had blown up and was finally able to apologize. Thank God. But I cannot guarantee no further loss of control in future. It makes me no less a pilgrim, as I continue to try to walk closer to God.
I meant as the OP mentioned she had 2 credentials...as I remember you can place about 30 stamps on each credential so if...if she walked from Sarria or whatever other place 100 kms away from Santiago, she had been be very busy collecting 60 stamps during their camino. About one stamp for every 1,3 km on average should be enough to prove you have walked the last 100 kms..but I thought they came from further away..Yes, as far as I understand it, that is the rule. You must have two stamps per day from Sarria; it doesn't matter whether you came from Leon, St Jean or Moscow. Jill
Seriously, getting a Compostela is not a life or death issue
The Cathedral provides the Compostella as a service....there are no requirements to walk the Camino....there are requirements to receive the Compostella.
There is no possibility that any staff member does not know the requirements or that many Pilgrims,every day, use two different credentials. Whatever the misunderstanding was...it was not because the staff person did not recognize two credentials.
There is always a senior person working who is authorized to make any decision on the spot and immediately.
of it.
That is factually incorrect. The Compostela is free.The Compostella [sic] is not a service. It is a product being sold by the Cathedral, all be ot [sic] for a tiny price.
Cannot disagree with you more. Many people walk the Camino for many different reasons. There is no requirement to have any religious component. .
where has this word Wicket come from? (It rhymes with cricket) although English is my ancient mother tongue, I have never come across this word to represent a counter service!
Now I understand somebody can be shocked when encountering a"Star Wars" "wicket " at the wicket as I see the picture of the "wicket" at the Star Wars wicke..eh...website you linked SabineHad to google it myself...all for science
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wicket
Although I also love this Star Wars reference....
http://www.starwars.com/databank/wicket-w-warrick
Notwithstanding how the rules are actually interpreted in individual cases, there has been clearly a change in how the rules are stated in words. While in 2010, the text in the credencial said "En las casillas deberá figurar el sello de cada localidad (al menos uno por día) con la fecha, para acreditar su paso" (at least one stamp per day), in 2016 the text now says "al menos 2 por día" (at least two stamps per day).I have never had a problem in the Pilgrim Office with the number of stamps on my credencial. I have never had more than 1 stamp per day for the last 100km, but I have never started before Galicia.
Well wickets are an essential part of the game of cricket and that's as far as my, let's say, limited knowledge went!Now I understand somebody can be shocked when encountering a"Star Wars" "wicket " at the wicket as I see the picture of the "wicket" at the Star Wars wicke..eh...website you linked Sabine.
Free with a request for a donation, like a donativo albergue. I'm willing to bet some people give more for the Compostela than they do for a night in an albergue.That is factually incorrect. The Compostela is free.
This is a pilgrimage to the tomb of an apostle! Of course it is religious...
You can walk it for whatever reason you like, no-one will judge or stop you but it is a RELIGIOUS pilgrimage. Please accept it as such, thank you.
Buen camino
I agree whole heartly, the only comment from me is, I thought the Camino was about the journey not the .CompestelaThat may be the practice in the pilgrims office, but it isn't the rule. The pilgrims office clearly states that you need two stamps a day from Sarria. Here is the exact wording:
https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/pilgrimage/the-compostela/
- You must collect the stamps on the “Credencial del Peregrino” from the places you pass through to certify that you have been there. Stamps from churches, hostels, monasteries, cathedrals and all places related to the Way are preferred, but if not they can also be stamped in other institutions: town halls, cafés, etc. You have to stamp the Credencial twice a day at least on the last 100 km (for pilgrims on foot or on horseback) or on the last 200 km (for cyclists pilgrims).
No doubt having a rule that isn't rigorously enforced makes for a lot of potential conflicts, but I think the office workers/volunteers try to be fair even if they are not always chatty and engaging. It certainly sounds like the problem described by the OP started when the person behind the desk saw that there weren't two a day from Sarria onwards, and things escalated from there. Just like Moni describes, once these things get out of control you tend to lose your cool and your perspective, and then may wind up feeling very chagrined about the place you wound up. It's much more complicated when two languages are involved. This is a good heads up for all of us -- as we soldier on, on very crowded and hot caminos, there is no shortage of potential short fuses to ruin your day if you let them.
Sorry, for once I can't join in the pity feast/stroke the poor pilgrim party, I explain:
The Compostela (which is the correct name for what you call the scroll) is for pilgrims that have done the pilgrimage to the tomb of the apostle in the cathedral for spiritual/religious reasons BUT you only note the physical hardships in your post. It is not about pains, bad weather and blisters, they are a side effect, it is about visiting a holy place no matter the circumstances.
You were proud about your accomplishment, and rightly so, but again, this accomplishment has nothing to do with the pilgrimage or the Compostela.
You write "I drew the most miserable and stupid young woman alive I think. Wicket 13." and you even accuse her of not being able to read ...
And I am speechless, the people in the pilgrims office are, for a large part, volunteers that give/donate their time to serve pilgrims. Are they all perfect saints? Surely not! But describing/ judging them in this manner ...
Did you do this pilgrimage for "the scroll" or something else?
Shaking head, SY
We obviously see different scenarios in front of our eyes here: some see the disappointed pilgrim and others see - at least until the question about the number of daily sellos in her second passport is answered by @Carolet - the angry foreigner abroad who is unable to communicate with the people of the country being visited in their own language and expects foreign language skills of others which s/he does not possess her/himself.venting
the credencials I have - issued by a French organisation, recognised by the Cathedral, dating from before 2016 - just say "firmas y sellos" of the stop, without minimum requirement.
I agreeMy post was certainly not intended to be in that category!The OP's anger was "understandable" but that doesn't mean it was defensible. Similarly the frustrations of Wicket 13 were probably understandable but not defensible. I hope that both parties (and the rest of us) learn something.
I've finished in SdC four times. The overall experience of getting a compostela has deteriorated to the point that I skipped it last time. There were 45 minutes worth of pilgrims queued up before the oficina even opened. Oficina apologists rightfully point out that much of the staff are volunteers and the compostela is 'free', but getting the compostela has become - IMHO - a negative ending to a very positive experience. An alarming number of pilgrims have told me that they 'can't wait to get out' of SdC.my 2 daughters and I started the Camino at St. Jean Pied de Port on June 12, 2016. We ran into cold wet weather for the first week and a bit then the blistering heat of the heat wave. There was a point when I wrote this forum to find out about busses but in the end kept on walking. Finally on the 22 July 2016, my girls walked into Santiago with me hobbling on a damaged knee somewhat behind. We were all so upbeat and proud of our accomplishment until we went to the Pilgrims Office to get our Compostela. My one daughter drew a charming young man who was really interested in her journey. The other daughter drew a man who other than pronouncing her name correctly which is a rarity, was totally indifferent just stamped everything and handed her, her scroll. I drew the most miserable and stupid young woman alive I think. Wicket 13.
We were issued our original passports at the registry office in St. Jean Pied de Port, due to the length of our journey and the number of places we stopped we filled those completely so at a church bought new ones. These too were filling up but still had a little room in them. I handed both passports to her but she refused to look at the first one, kept saying "not enough stamps." I tried, both my daughters tried to explain that the second one started in Palais de Rey but all the other stamps were in the other passport. She obviously could not read as she wouldn't even look at the first one. She absolutely refused me the scroll. Finally my daughter was angry enough to say, we are not leaving until you do the right thing and give my mom the scroll she has earned. It took Kari saying this a few times before she relented and filled it out. This left a really bad taste in all of our mouths. A sad ending instead of the joy we expected. She should never be allowed to deal with the public with her lack of reasoning power. Because of this I cannot wait to get out of this town.
Hello! I've followed this tread with interest because I am currently one of the volunteers in the Oficina and was on duty from 3-8pm on Friday July 22. I wasn't at desk 13 and the first I heard of this event was when one of the other volunteers saw this thread on Saturday and showed it to the rest of us AND to the Oficina managers. To be honest, even though the post wasn't directed at me, I found the tone very upsetting. As someone else pointed out, we had more than 1900 peregrinos arrive on that day.
When I read over the complaint it occurred to me, as it has to a number of other people who have posted replies, that there was a misunderstanding over the requirement to have two sellos per day for the last 100km of any recognised route. I am fairly certain that the volunteer was able to read, but I suspect that she wasn't very experienced. At the first sign of an issue she should have called over one of the full time staff for advice (many of whom speak English in addition to a surprising number of languages). The compostela is given FOR FREE to a pilgrim who walks the LAST 100km of a recognised route to Santiago. If you arrive by horse or wheelchair, it is also the LAST 100km. If you are on a bike, it is the LAST 200km. I emphasise 'LAST' because we have had people show up who think that they can walk what they want and as long as it totals up to 100km they will get a compostela. This is not the case. Almost 50% of the people who do 'the Camino' start in Sarria which is 116kms away from Santiago. We do carefully look at the credenciales to see that people do have at least two stamps per day. We do this to have proof that the person actually walked all the way. Why would some people lies about this? In Spain, having a compostela is something that you can add to your CV as an indication that you can commit to something difficult. I have also heard of people using the Camino as a cheap holiday and so take taxis from one town to the next.
Volunteers with a bit of experience of the Camino are a bit more flexible when presented with a credencial (or two) that indicates that the perigrino(a) has started some distance away, like St Jean Pied de Port. I would certainly accept a credencial that has only one stamp per day fron St Jean BUT I would also explain that for the next Camino they need to make sure that they get at least two per day for the last 100km. I find that most peregrinos are very honest. Some may have started in St Jean, but add that they took a bus during part of the route. The important thing is that they walked from Sarria and have the stamps to prove it. So the volunteer probably only looked at the last credencial because she was checking to see if the two stamps per day from Sarria were there. That being said, as I indicated above, she should have asked for assistance. On the other hand, the peregrina should have also asked if she could speak to someone more senior. Like some of the others, I am a bit confused about the peregrina's use of terminology. People are either given (again for free!) either a compostela (if they have religious or spiritual motivations) or a certificate of completion (if they have cultural or touristic motivations). We don't call these 'scrolls'. Also, the places we sit are 'desks' or 'puestos' and not wickets. While the compostela/certificate of completiong is free, peregrinos can purchase, if they wish, a distance certificate. This costs 3 euros. This is written in Spanish (and in Gallego upon request). It has your name (as it is in your passport or ID card), when you started, where you started, the distance covered, when you arrived and the route you took. The Oficina also sells 'tubos', protective cardboard tubes, for 2 euros. We ask people if they want them and we explain the prices, but there is no requirement to purchase these AND there is certainly no push to get people to put money into the donation box. If you walk in with a correctly stamped credencial and want a compostela or completion certificate, that's fine by us and it doesn't cost you anything. What you do pay for at the start of your route is the credencial. The one that is sold in the Oficina is 1.50 euros. We have heard some stories of travel agents selling the credencial for a higher price! This is something that the Oficina wants to discourage.
I see that Ernesto wants to walk to Rome. I did this and it was lovely. The route is called the Francigena. You can get a credencial by joining the Francigena co-fraternity (in advance and by post). If you start 150km way (in Aquapotente, accessible from Rome by bus) and get sellos along they way, you can present this document to the tourist office at the Vatican and get a completion certificate.
I have to disagree with the person who asked why we didn't have a ticket system or separate queues for people who walked more than 100km. I have been a volunteer for the past four years and the system we have is easy for people of various languages and cultures to use. There is MUCH more space in the new Oficina. There are also chairs in the hallway for people who are tired! If you are too exhausted to queue with everyone else (and you don't know where they came from and what their circumstances are) you should probably check yourself into a hotel, have a good rest, and come back the next day. I would invite both the person who made comments about the lack of a ticket machine and the peregrina who posted her complaint to volunteer next year and see what things are like on the other side of the desk. You can do this by emailing: info@acogidacristianaenelcamino.es.
In closing, I am wondering what the intent of the peregrina with the complaint was when she posted her message. If she wanted to complain to a manager she could have done so at the time or in writing. This would have been more effective than posting a message on a forum. It seemed to me that she simply wanted to vent her anger. Again, I wonder if this is the most appropriate thing to do. I was, however, heartened by the comments by other forum members. The Camino, especially if you start from some distance away, should be about the journey, which includes the route as well as the people you travel with, and not a piece of paper.
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