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Or that you have a bit more work to do.And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
The number one killer of a "fun" pilgrimage! One of the hardest things to do is to walk/cycle without expectations. However, they make dealing with emotions much harder. When my walk begins to become a grind, I remind myself, Bill Bryson style, that the activity is optional. I can quit any time I want.being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met
When my walk begins to become a grind
My thoughts exactly. One Camino is likely not to be enough, is only the start. thank you.@Purky, very well said!
Or that you have a bit more work to do.
We change slowly, most of us, so it is only the rare and fortunate few who get through things in one camino.
The places where we are most disgruntled are the places where there is simply more waking up to do.
It takes time and patience. And since our culture gets less and less good at patience, we get less and less good at that too.
I agree with the main point of your reply. However, imperfect people do get disgruntled. The process of trying to overcome disgruntlement, and reduce its frequency, does have a place on a pilgrimage.being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage
What comes first - to 'overcome' or 'understand' the cause? I've found that understanding the root cause of any problem - anger, discomfort, depression, or such like then leads to being able to acknowledge it and deal with it and then overcoming it through that awareness. My Caminos and visits to the Chapel for quiet and private talks helped me enormously - and it took more than one Camino for me to realise what and how I have to deal with my distructive emotions.I agree with the main point of your reply. However, imperfect people do get disgruntled. The process of trying to overcome disgruntlement, and reduce its frequency, does have a place on a pilgrimage.
Man are you right!! I am preparing for Camino 4 .@Purky, very well said!
Or that you have a bit more work to do.
We change slowly, most of us, so it is only the rare and fortunate few who get through things in one camino.
The places where we are most disgruntled are the places where there is simply more waking up to do.
It takes time and patience. And since our culture gets less and less good at patience, we get less and less good at that too.
IME, it is seeing something clearly and understanding the does the overcoming. Once I can see things as they really are, the overcoming happens by itself.What comes first - to 'overcome' or 'understand' the cause?
Yes. And yet it's not an inevitable part of experience. If there is a tendency or habit of being disgruntled, then that can be purified and replaced by its opposite. Contentment is the best thing in the world, and a lot happier place to live from.it's the human experience to get disgruntled and just part of the ride.
I would say it's almost the whole point, at least for me. I so appreciate caminos for bringing deeper tendencies into the open - the deeply hidden destructive emotions. It's very good at that. And being grumpy is always a road sign that says "Hey, look over here! There's something deeper cooking." And then I see something that is blocking simple contentment - usually it has to do with mememe. I can be astonishingly good at whining.imperfect people do get disgruntled. The process of trying to overcome disgruntlement, and reduce its frequency, does have a place on a pilgrimage.
Brilliant. I love it. Now that is an inspiration!I am just trying to make the home Camino last a little longer every time!
Perhaps I dont know the meaning of disgruntled. I was going to say it's the human experience to get disgruntled and just part of the ride.
For example, I know me, and I will get disgruntled when people are noisy, if I haven't been able to enjoy the personal space I need, when my feet hurt, when I'm lost, etc. Trying my best to be prepared and to thwart these things is the challenge but when they do happen try to go with the flow or rectify then as best as able.
I normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility). And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
I normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility) and I tend to avoid conflict in any shape or form. But I want to play the devil's advocate here (and hope I don't become too preachy), and boldly state that being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage. If someone feels disgruntled as an end result, he or she simply didn't get it.
Because a pilgrimage is not a holiday or a cheap vacation. It is supposed to hurt, that is what happens if you have to do away with expectations and suspend judgement while stripping down your life and luggage to only the essentials. Frustration, anger, sadness or despair, those are different beasts altogether and with some luck, hard walking and grace you will hopefully get past those during your camino. Or the next.
But being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met, that you remain displeased about challenges you didn't deal with well or that you are disappointed with the way things turned out. All the things, in short, that might have driven you to undertake a pilgrimage in the first place. And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
A bit preachyI normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility) and I tend to avoid conflict in any shape or form. But I want to play the devil's advocate here (and hope I don't become too preachy), and boldly state that being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage. If someone feels disgruntled as an end result, he or she simply didn't get it.
Because a pilgrimage is not a holiday or a cheap vacation. It is supposed to hurt, that is what happens if you have to do away with expectations and suspend judgement while stripping down your life and luggage to only the essentials. Frustration, anger, sadness or despair, those are different beasts altogether and with some luck, hard walking and grace you will hopefully get past those during your camino. Or the next.
But being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met, that you remain displeased about challenges you didn't deal with well or that you are disappointed with the way things turned out. All the things, in short, that might have driven you to undertake a pilgrimage in the first place. And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
This is an interesting view. However for me the magic of those moments when we speak our truth to one another on our pilgrimage - with respect and with love- have been some of the greatest gifts I have been given by fellow pilgrims. Expressing how we feel and owning it takes many of us to a different level. Each Camino is individual and unique and the journey within ourselves is one of the greatest pilgrimages we can experience. I love the idea of being able to take that which has risen up on the way to discuss with someone to complete the pilgrimage and not isolate myself with angst at home.I normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility) and I tend to avoid conflict in any shape or form. But I want to play the devil's advocate here (and hope I don't become too preachy), and boldly state that being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage. If someone feels disgruntled as an end result, he or she simply didn't get it.
Because a pilgrimage is not a holiday or a cheap vacation. It is supposed to hurt, that is what happens if you have to do away with expectations and suspend judgement while stripping down your life and luggage to only the essentials. Frustration, anger, sadness or despair, those are different beasts altogether and with some luck, hard walking and grace you will hopefully get past those during your camino. Or the next.
But being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met, that you remain displeased about challenges you didn't deal with well or that you are disappointed with the way things turned out. All the things, in short, that might have driven you to undertake a pilgrimage in the first place. And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
, maybe there is no end to wanting to return to do another camino once you have been bitten.
And vital café con lecheI find that the grinding process produces gems
Did they say something? I have only met two pilgrims who were proselytising, which carried the implication that I should want to be saved by their brand of Christianity. Everyone else who spoke of motivations, faith, and religion was talking solely about themselves. I can bear the burden of knowing two pilgrims out of tens of thousands judged me (though there may have been others who were doing so in their mind, but I am not a mind reader).I found a lot of people were judging me.
I will pass that on to my friends with cancer."False positivity doesn’t lead to anything honest or valuable."
I love this forum. We share and give, can savour the memories, read or see photographs of things we may have missed on our Camino. I read an article by a disgruntled pilgrim, which received some mixed reviews and responses. From my experience, any Camino can bring out the best and worst in me, but the chance to learn and grow comes from both. If you find someone has major issues, is having difficulties, or perhaps you have them, during the adventure or upon arrival in Santiago, don't forget that you or they have the chance to share their experience in a group or alone in the Chapel for Prayer and Reflection, where we receive our Credentials. I, and I know others, have benefitted from being able to talk to others in confidence with objective and sympathetic listeners. If you are projecting frustration or even anger, sadness or despair, at the end of your Camino, it could be the symptom of something much deeper that has been awoken or stirred by your Pilgrimage. Its what its all about Love, Light & Nature, Keith.
@Damienw Just for clarification - there is no "province of Xunta". O Cebreiro is the first village within the province of Galicia on the Camino Frances. The Xunta is the Galician provincial government. Unlike other parts of the Camino Frances where public albergues are mostly provided by local town councils those in Galicia are largely built and operated centrally by the Xunta. The great majority of these have no cooking equipment now. I am fairly sure this is a matter of official policy rather than the result of corruption or collusion at a local level. While I agree that this is an unfortunate and undesirable situation I hardly think that it constitutes an attack on the "dignity" of pilgrims.
@Damienw Just for clarification - there is no "province of Xunta". O Cebreiro is the first village within the province of Galicia on the Camino Frances. The Xunta is the Galician provincial government. Unlike other parts of the Camino Frances where public albergues are mostly provided by local town councils those in Galicia are largely built and operated centrally by the Xunta. The great majority of these have no cooking equipment now. I am fairly sure this is a matter of official policy rather than the result of corruption or collusion at a local level. While I agree that this is an unfortunate and undesirable situation I hardly think that it constitutes an attack on the "dignity" of pilgrims.
More likely a wry expression.The smirks on the faces of the hosting hospitaleras
and they should built new well-equipped 5-Euro albergues on the new route.if O’ Cebriero was publically shamed by a redrawing of the route
Reroute the camino to bypass O'Cebriero? Really? Pilgrims stop in O'Cebriero because of the ancient monastery and the unique architecture, not because they expect to find pots and pans.
You’re absolutely right falcon. It is the expectations we have to fight, because truth be told, in my experience of past caminos, it has always been a totally fulfilling experience, and, dare I say, enjoyable. I’m on Camino right now, on my bike, from Madrid. I cut across to the VdlP Sanabres and the last six days have been a form of Purgatory. I was so cold and miserable in A GUDIÑA, I decided I couldn’t take any more of the atrocious weather and started looking at train timetables. But next morning I carried on, through another drenching, willing to recognise that I was on a pilgrimage not a holiday. I’m a couple of days out from Santiago and I’m sure the Pilgrim Mass will move me.The number one killer of a "fun" pilgrimage! One of the hardest things to do is to walk/cycle without expectations. However, they make dealing with emotions much harder. When my walk begins to become a grind, I remind myself, Bill Bryson style, that the activity is optional. I can quit any time I want.
So far, I have not!
Not I, anyway. I just pointed out that by having specific expectations, one creates a situation where disappointment is more likely. Sometimes it is good to set goals and specific targets/expectations, but in other cases it is not.Who decides that someone else should not have expectations on the journey? We all have them!
Gosh, you have me quite puzzled.I believe Jesus faced a similar situation with the moneylenders in the Temple!
Right?!The number one killer of a "fun" pilgrimage! One of the hardest things to do is to walk/cycle without expectations. However, they make dealing with emotions much harder. When my walk begins to become a grind, I remind myself, Bill Bryson style, that the activity is optional. I can quit any time I want.
So far, I have not!
Excellent comment. We should all try to be "gruntled" pilgrims!I normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility) and I tend to avoid conflict in any shape or form. But I want to play the devil's advocate here (and hope I don't become too preachy), and boldly state that being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage. If someone feels disgruntled as an end result, he or she simply didn't get it.
Because a pilgrimage is not a holiday or a cheap vacation. It is supposed to hurt, that is what happens if you have to do away with expectations and suspend judgement while stripping down your life and luggage to only the essentials. Frustration, anger, sadness or despair, those are different beasts altogether and with some luck, hard walking and grace you will hopefully get past those during your camino. Or the next.
But being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met, that you remain displeased about challenges you didn't deal with well or that you are disappointed with the way things turned out. All the things, in short, that might have driven you to undertake a pilgrimage in the first place. And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
Not I, anyway. I just pointed out that by having specific expectations, one creates a situation where disappointment is more likely. Sometimes it is good to set goals and specific targets/expectations, but in other cases it is not.
Gosh, you have me quite puzzled.
Holla DamienW! I hope your camino is bringing you what you want and need, and a lot of the unexpected tooI have completed my first Camino 2 weeks ago and the only burning issues Which remain have little to do with the long queue to collect the compestela!
My observation is that there is a sizeable majority of pilgrims that are very budget conscience and it is therefore incomprensible that the municipal albergues that they depend on seem to equate cheap lodgings as a quid pro quo for less dignity granted to the pilgrims. I refer to the systemic removal of all kitchen utensils down to cutlery and plates in the kitchens which prevent pilgrims the means to cook a simple pasta or rice dish after a long day’s walk! The removal of shower doors also furthers the feeling of indignity being offered. This is particularly prevalent in the province of Xunta starting with O’ceberio, which is a comparitively new building, and others leading up to Santiago with the exception of Monte Gozo.
Is this a simple case of corruption of the local Hospitaleras by the local restaurants? Should the Camino route be redrawn to exclude these locations?
@Damienw I share your irritation and frustration at the lack of cooking equipment in the Galician Xunta's albergues. It is an inconvenience. But there is an enormous leap from that to your suggestion that local hospitaleras have been corrupted by local businesses and are therefore comparable to the moneychangers in the temple. We also clearly have a very different understanding of the meaning of "dignity". My own self-worth and the value I assign to others is unlikely to be seriously dented by my inability to cook spaghetti bolognese on any given day. I do not immediately assume that the failure of an albergue to provide me with one particular facility is motivated by greed or contempt for me and my fellow pilgrims, or that such a facility is essential to the definition of an albergue. If you truly feel that boycotting the Xunta albergues and bypassing O Cebreiro is a proportionate and appropriate response to the situation you discovered then you are of course free to do so. Personally I will try to find less dramatic solutions to my occasional frustrations.
I may have suggested a perhaps a radical and provocative solution but what would you suggest ??
In that sort of situation I simply eat cold food. I have walked the Camino Frances three times. Much of my walking these days is on pilgrimage routes with a far more basic infrastructure than the Camino Frances. I do not assume that cooking facilities will be available or that they are a basic human right. I believe that part of the pilgrimage experience is reducing one's demands to a minimum and taking pleasure and satisfaction in the simplicity that goes with that. Cooking facilities are a benefit I enjoy when they are available. But they are not essential or mine by right.I may have suggested a perhaps a radical and provocative solution but what would you suggest ??
A mess kit.I may have suggested a perhaps a radical and provocative solution but what would you suggest ??
If on a strict budget and when there are no cooking utensils available in the Xunta albergues I saw lots of pilgrims eating cold cuts / meats and tinned goodies.
One can eat a balanced meal even without using a stove and pots and pans.
I know I had to do it that way during my student days.
Holla DamienW! I hope your camino is bringing you what you want and need, and a lot of the unexpected tooI know what you mean about fascilities at municipal alberques seeming and often being sub-standard to those in private hostals or alberques. I and many others have experienced this for ourselves. Its obviously a source of disdain for you, as for a lot of pilgrims. From the alberques I experienced, I seldom book private unless I really have to. I'm throwing these points out for discussion, have dipped-into your comments for some points, but I do not necessarily believe or hold to every point or perspective. Pilgrims will hopefully contribute and comment based upon their experiences:
The Confraternity of Sant James have two Alberques which hold to the philosophy and tradition of The Pilgrim Way and Camino in Spain - perhaps the municipal authorities should aspire not just to their standards, but also to their expectations and philosophy?
- There are a lot of excellent municipal alberques, accomodating the needs of pilgrims overnighting.
- There are both private and M. Alb. that it is good to leave behind as we set off in the morning.
- The limitation/withdrawal/omission of key facilities at some M.Alb. seem to be/could be due to the influence of local businesses wishing to prosper and cash-in on the pilgrims staying in their town/village. These tend to be more common in small locations, away from supermarkets and shops but with a concentration of cafes, pubs and restaurants.
- It is logical and right that private alberques provide far better and more private accomodation to those who can afford it and can book in advance.
- Municipal Alberques are more often bed bug infested (?)
- You never find bed bugs in private accomodation (?)
- There is a level of 'snobery' on Camino, between those who go private over those who municipal.
- Municipal Alberques should aspire to equal if not better the fascilities of private accomodation.
- Its right to have such a broad spectrum of choice for overnighting.
- Muncipal alberques bring us 'down to Earth' and closer as a pilgrim community, show aspects of human nature and de-toxify us from our comfortable, consumerist existance.
- All Pilgrims have the right to a high standard and equal level of accomodation (?)
Even if the topic is a source of disdain, even anger or sadness, does it matter anyway? It happens all around us, everywhere, no matter where we are, advertising telling us what we need and how poor we must be and laking in worthwhile experiences if we don't have or can buy their products. Businesses want your money, pamper to the wealthy or comfortably well off, whilst everyone else makes-do.
That's why this forum is so good - lots of good chat and some fun too, great advice. A place to vent your spleen - sometimes. You'll get supoort and help too. How's it going, Damien? Where are you. I love those O'Cebreiro sections. KeithGosh ! It’s bugging me that wanting to help those pilgrims less fortunate than myself should bring such a reaction. Anyone who makes the climb up to O’ Cebreiro on cold and rainy day to be greeted by a street full of tempting restaurants and then find that what has been a very extensively renovated kitchen has been deliberately prevented from being used by those pilgrims on a restricted budget as a matter of policy
That's why this forum is so good - lots of good chat and some fun too, great advice. A place to vent your spleen - sometimes. You'll get supoort and help too. How's it going, Damien? Where are you. I love those O'Cebreiro sections. Keith
You can bring pot and pans with you on your next Camino .I may have suggested a perhaps a radical and provocative solution but what would you suggest ??
You are not the only one .The more this thread is going on the more I wonder if I am the only one who has actually completed the Camino! In O’ Cebreiro where is the shop amongst a street full of restaurants, to buy the cold cuts? Who is going to pack and carry a mess kit from SJdPdp just for use on the last stretch!! Thank heavens for the Hospitaleros of Monte Gozo who allowed the kitchens to used to their full potential !! On a personal note I am recently retired and living in France!
The more this thread is going on the more I wonder if I am the only one who has actually completed the Camino! In O’ Cebreiro where is the shop amongst a street full of restaurants, to buy the cold cuts? Who is going to pack and carry a mess kit from SJdPdp just for use on the last stretch!! Thank heavens for the Hospitaleros of Monte Gozo who allowed the kitchens to used to their full potential !! On a personal note I am recently retired and living in France!
How much does a grudge weigh one down? And how long should one carry it?Who is going to pack and carry a mess kit from SJdPdp just for use on the last stretch!!
In O’ Cebreiro where is the shop amongst a street full of restaurants, to buy the cold cuts?
DamianW Quote....”The more this thread is going on the more I wonder if I am the only one who has actually completed the Camino!”
Really?? There are a couple of small supermarkets to purchase food in Valcarce? We often buy food there for the evening meal.
We usually stay in private albergues, often without the ability to cook. We do not mind and actually save money and assure ourselves of getting sufficient vitamins. We eat many an evening meal in our room. great salads...fruit, greens, oranges, tomatoes,olives, nuts. We also buy the small olive oil and vinegar packets which are available in many supermarkets. What we carry are titanium cups and a small apparatus to boil water.
You are not the only one .
I normally don't do this, because I firmly believe in freedom of personal experience (and responsibility) and I tend to avoid conflict in any shape or form. But I want to play the devil's advocate here (and hope I don't become too preachy), and boldly state that being disgruntled has no place on a pilgrimage. If someone feels disgruntled as an end result, he or she simply didn't get it.
Because a pilgrimage is not a holiday or a cheap vacation. It is supposed to hurt, that is what happens if you have to do away with expectations and suspend judgement while stripping down your life and luggage to only the essentials. Frustration, anger, sadness or despair, those are different beasts altogether and with some luck, hard walking and grace you will hopefully get past those during your camino. Or the next.
But being disgruntled means that expectations weren't met, that you remain displeased about challenges you didn't deal with well or that you are disappointed with the way things turned out. All the things, in short, that might have driven you to undertake a pilgrimage in the first place. And if the result of walking that camino is still feeling disgruntled, you might want to face the possibility that a pilgrimage just isn't your cup of tea.
You can bring pot and pans with you on your next Camino .
You can bring pot and pans with you on your next Camino .
DamianW Quote....”The more this thread is going on the more I wonder if I am the only one who has actually completed the Camino!”
Really?? There are a couple of small supermarkets to purchase food in Valcarce? We often buy food there for the evening meal.
We usually stay in private albergues, often without the ability to cook. We do not mind and actually save money and assure ourselves of getting sufficient vitamins. We eat many an evening meal in our room. great salads...fruit, greens, oranges, Leon’s kiwi,tomatoes,olives, nuts. Jason, bread. We also buy the small olive oil and vinegar packets which are available in many supermarkets. What we carry are titanium cups and a small apparatus to boil water.
Soundly preached but if I falter on the first day over the mountain would you share my burden ??
No .
Stay on point, my criticism is of Xunta in Galicia !!
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