- Time of past OR future Camino
- To Santiago + back
2400 km + 950 nmi
160 days
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I don't see that happening on this thread.Feeling identified and personally attacked by what is merely another opinion?
But I think you misinterpret. Not all of us love the film. I agree with the OP's observation that there are some people who love to hate it, and who offer explanations for why other people seem to love it! As @Kathar1na put it:It does sound like I'm in the minority about this film
By the way, in case anyone wonders, I think @VNwalking and I enjoy a good discussion/debate with each other anytime!basically we are saying that other people are just dumber and less critical than ourselves and believe and follow what celebrities do or say while we don’t.
So the numbers have not quite doubled in10 years. Wouldn’t call that a huge increase, compared to the increase in the number of Koreans. And what about all those Aussies & Kiwis? What motivated them?
Almost 10X the number of Americans then. But what's influencing all those other pilgrims on the Camino? is there a different cultural phenomenon for each nationality? The Italians, the Croatians, people from India? Maybe, just maybe, it might be the work of the Holy Spirit?I think you are confusing actual numbers with the changing percentage of Americans. In 2008 the pilgrim office recorded 2214 pilgrims from the USA - 1.8%. In 2018 those figures had risen to 18,582 or 5.68%. A substantial increase both in absolute numbers and in the proportion of Americans on the caminos.
I can barely believe that that is a serious question.But what's influencing all those other pilgrims on the Camino? is there a different cultural phenomenon for each nationality? The Italians, the Croatians, people from India?
Thanks for the heads up. Just haven't been able to do that much research. But after just re-watching the movie (which by the way I only saw after walking the Camino), it seems that things were pretty crowded than as well. Still like the movie, the only part that seemed somewhat forced was the part involving the Gitano community.I can barely believe that that is a serious question.
Do this: Go to Google News. Go to Language & Region. Pick Italy/Italian. Enter Cammino di Santiago. Look at the results. Go to Language & Region. Pick Germany/German. Enter Jakobsweg. Look at the results. And so on. And so on.
Go to Oficina del Peregrino. Click on Preparación. Look at the lists of Cofradias en el mundo and Asociaciones en el mundo.
Walk into a bookshop in Germany, France, Italy. Go to the travel section. Count the number of books on the Camino de Santiago.
But I think we in the U S.are coming over in droves because of the movie...me personally...I'll be walking my 6th this coming spring!
Second that - indeed. We don't disagree on that much, actually, so it's a novel experience.By the way, in case anyone wonders, I think @VNwalking and I enjoy a good discussion/debate with each other anytime!
It's lovely to have you back, @SEB. And I appreciate having my opinions questioned. Moving in lockstep with people who agree with me can create a bubble...Please don't stop challenging uncritical emotional attachments to cultural products, for therein lies a danger for us all, as history as shown repeatedly.
Hmmm. Some of the greatest movies of all time are American movies.this movie, being an American movie, could have been much worse ... ☺.
You obviously didn't read the article?Hmmm. Some of the greatest movies of all time are American movies.
I’m biased. I loved it despite it’s faults.
And it really annoys me when people dismiss it with the throw-away line “Hollywood Movie” with every derogatory implication that goes with it. Just today I read that the modern popularity of the Camino derives from "Coelho, MacLain, Hollywood". I take the point, but did you mean "Coelho, MacLain, Estevez"?
Credit where credit is due folks. It was a labour of love by the Estevez family, INDEPENDENTLY financed, and intended as a homage to their own family heritage. Estevez himself describes it as a film inspired by a grandson, made by a son, starring a father, honouring a Galician grandfather, or words to that effect.
The making of that film owed nothing to Hollywood. Give it a break.
Here hereI’m biased. I loved it despite it’s faults.
And it really annoys me when people dismiss it with the throw-away line “Hollywood Movie” with every derogatory implication that goes with it. Just today I read that the modern popularity of the Camino derives from "Coelho, MacLain, Hollywood". I take the point, but did you mean "Coelho, MacLain, Estevez"?
Credit where credit is due folks. It was a labour of love by the Estevez family, INDEPENDENTLY financed, and intended as a homage to their own family heritage. Estevez himself describes it as a film inspired by a grandson, made by a son, starring a father, honouring a Galician grandfather, or words to that effect.
The making of that film owed nothing to Hollywood. Give it a break.
Dear fellow pilgrims,
If you look at the statistics you will have a clue that it is not only "Hollywood", Coelho and MacLain had an impact on the Caminos.
Most of the german / german speaking pilgrims are attracted to the CF by the book "Ich bin dann mal weg" ("I'm off then" in english) written by the famous german comedian Hape Kerkeling. He walked in 2001 and the book was released in 2006.
Many german speaking readers had read the book from Coelho, but the impact of Kerkelings book is far greater, that's for sure.
That film provided me with the inspiration to walk the Camino in the first place. Change of career, midlife ‘crisis’, children leaving home. We have just returned from completing the Camino Frances, spread over 3 years and three trips. Just loved the people we met on each of those journeys. And a fair number connected with various characters from that film!I’m biased. I loved it despite it’s faults.
And it really annoys me when people dismiss it with the throw-away line “Hollywood Movie” with every derogatory implication that goes with it. Just today I read that the modern popularity of the Camino derives from "Coelho, MacLain, Hollywood". I take the point, but did you mean "Coelho, MacLain, Estevez"?
Credit where credit is due folks. It was a labour of love by the Estevez family, INDEPENDENTLY financed, and intended as a homage to their own family heritage. Estevez himself describes it as a film inspired by a grandson, made by a son, starring a father, honouring a Galician grandfather, or words to that effect.
The making of that film owed nothing to Hollywood. Give it a break.
That is one of my issues with the film too. But that may be a very personal judgment. I find the whole "Camino family" concept difficult to grasp and quite unappealing. My first Camino was very much a solitary experience and even today I much prefer solitude to the almost obligatory social interaction of the busier Caminos now. I am very aware that for some people the relationships formed with other pilgrims are essential parts of their own Caminos. Not what I look for in my journeys.Maybe they needed to create conflict for dramatic purposes, but in my experience of the Camino, the real conflict isn't with other pilgrims but your own endurance and blisters, shin splints, bed bugs and the other challenges of the Way that they ignored to focus on the personality conflicts.
Could that just be the way the article, originally in Spanish, was translated into English via a computer program? Anytime something is translated from one language to another via a computer program, things are quite often as they say, lost in translation....Found it. So just to contribute something new to the discussion: According to El Mundo of 10 November 2010, it cost 3,8 million dollars to make the movie, which is a modest budget. The government of Galicia contributed 700,000 euros.
And according to this film review in El Blog de Ciné Español of 2013, the movie did quite well in the USA (and in Australia) where they took in 4,4 million dollars despite a limited release but in Spain it didn't even reach 500,000 euros, and the reviewer concludes that it's a film that reaches foreigners more than ourselves.
I've now read a few Spanish reviews - I'm always curious about the view from Spain instead of about Spain ☺ - and it struck me that they classify the movie as a "road movie", albeit one without cars.
Thanks, David. You've perfectly articulated one of the things that bothers me about the film. They probably couldn't have done otherwise, because tension and drama are required - that's what manipulates our emotions. And two hours of relative harmony, blisters, aches, and bodily odors would never have made much of a plot.Maybe they needed to create conflict for dramatic purposes, but in my experience of the Camino, the real conflict isn't with other pilgrims but your own endurance and blisters, shin splints, bed bugs and the other challenges of the Way that they ignored to focus on the personality conflicts.
Me neither.I can't understand how people could bag 'The Way''then part with their money to watch a Hollywood movie or even worse a 'blockbuster'.
Nope, not all. I can also now see why reviewers put it into the movie genre “road movie”. It has nothing to do with Spain or Spanish. A quote from The Telegraph, a UK newspaper: “Even if all the travelling is on foot, this is a road movie of sorts, and thus lessons will be learned during the physical and metaphorical journey.”Could that just be the way the article, originally in Spanish, was translated into English via a computer program? Anytime something is translated from one language to another via a computer program, things are quite often as they say, lost in translation....
WHAAAAT??? Marting Sheen acting skills in The Way???Not until I saw the movie did I give any weight to the acting skills of Martin Sheen. His facial expressions were perfectly suited to the emotional context of the plot and they were beautifully displayed by the director of the film. While some would look for the graphic locus, to me the story was the meld of four distinct disparate personalities. If even for a moment, that is the lesson taught by The Way. It is not Hollywood, nor is it the geographic locations. It is the spirit of Saint James and an example of some that listened to the call. To that, I thoughtfully appreciate.
And which one would that be?I am aware of only one Forum member who has made "professional" films. That leaves the rest of us to be amateur critics, blithely unaware of the craft except from a theater seat as we eat popcorn. I love to expound on my areas of ignorance! I say "The Way" is fiction somewhere between "Captain Apache" and "Casablanca" in quality.
Ahem: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000640/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1Btw, until this movie and the forum discussion about it, I knew next to nothing about Martin Sheen The Person. Since then, I’ve watched a few interviews or talks he gave and I read his Wikipedia article. Married since 1961 - that’s 58 years and no divorce - and arrested about 66 times for protests and acts of civil obedience. It doesn’t make the movie or his performance in it any better but that’s stuff I wouldn’t hold against him ☺.
And Muxia?Yes, but only 2 shots in Galicia, O Cebreiro and Santiago.
Oh my, @VNwalking .that's what manipulates our emotion
The year after the movie came out, and there was a new interest in the Camino. The Spanish economy just edged out of a recession, some called it a Camino led recovery.Someone said earlier that the Sheen family put up their own money to finance the movie but I don't think that's correct. They did not get financing from the Hollywood studios so they looked for and got financing from private investors. And also from some public investors. This may shock or astonish some of you but in Europe it's not unusual that public money is granted for certain film productions.
I remember reading once that the Xunta of Galicia gave them a subsidy. While I was looking for an article with relevant information, another article popped up that caught my attention. It's not easy to read for me and I've used the DeepL translation website so far but I will try to figure it out in a more accurate translation myself later. I find this great to practice Spanish. Anyway, some of you may enjoy it: Cuando Martin Sheen se metió a peregrino - El Correo Gallego. The author writes in 2018 and looks back at what they (in Galicia) thought about it when they first heard in 2009 or so that Martin Sheen was going to do a movie about the Santiago pilgrimage, and how it panned out in the end: this movie, being an American movie, could have been much worse ... ☺.
Estevez and Sheen have said a number of times in interviews that Estevez deliberately used parallels with "The Wizard of Oz": the "quest" structure of the film, the characters of the four main actors and even the idea of a yellow trail leading to a far off magical place where problems are expected to be solved!i haven't seen the film since it came out. but i'm interested in what you say here about it follows along with the wizard of oz. was that in the film? i can't remember. or was it alluded to? or part of the format?
Ah yes, and I'd overlooked. Been so long and wasn't about that time he had his heart attack?WHAAAAT??? Marting Sheen acting skills in The Way???
Huh, have you seen Apocalypse now? And the hotel room sequence?
Yes, of course Muxia. I meant only two shots on the Camino Francés.And Muxia?
Not a very nice wish !!Ah yes, and I'd overlooked. Been so long and wasn't about that time he had his heart attack?
It is not a wish. Martin was very sick, almost died. Thankfully he survived and was able to finish filming of Apocalypse Now.Not a very nice wish !!
But it's a movie, not a documentary
I love it. Have watched it about 20 times and it inspired me to walk the Camino.
And my first Camino........was very like the movie! It had all the key 'components'
I think Werner Herzog should direct a film about the Caminos.I'm with PeregrinoPaul!
Different countries make films in different ways, a reflection of their cultures and mindsets.
Australian films, for instance, have a rawness and underplayed but brutal honesty that sometimes jars to an english mindset. You can't watch a French film without a Gitane in your mouth and a glass of Pernod in your hand.
And English films? So different from American films - think how Four Weddings and a Funeral would have been made in America! .... so to call The Way 'Hollywood' is an error I think, better to call it American perhaps as 'Hollywood' seems to be a little derogatory and means 'slick' somehow, whereas 'American' doesn't, don't you think?
And then, one American actor, one Canadian, one Irish, one Dutch ..... Spanish film crew ....
Personally I love The Way, it is my virtual Camino during the winter and I would be embarrassed to say how many times I have watched it. It isn't a documentary so it doesn't have to be in linear order. I find the characters realistic - and all great films are about development of character, and all the main characters develop and change ... I particularly like that the actors were not given a script for the cathedral but were told to do whatever they wanted to do - the Dutch actor had absolutely no idea he would fall on his knees, it was an impulsive response that shocked him.
By the way, I recommend watching it at least once with the colour turned off on your tv so it is monochrome. Whereas pilgrims moving through the landscape stand out from it in their bright colours, in black and white they are part of the landscape, and the brilliant camera work can be truly seen in monochrome, every expression becomes real ... try it, trust me, it becomes an Art film.
I think Werner Herzog should direct a film about the Caminos.
Thank you for that. I've ordered a copy.Getting back - sort of - to my original point, for those of you who have expressed such positive sentiments about the film, you might be interested in the book which Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez published called “Along the Way”, which sets their personal life-story in counterpoint to their experience in conceiving and making the film.
There is another book: Jack Hitt's work "Off The Road" obviously influenced the making of the film. Huge chunks of it form the basis of the screenplay and even the script. Still the best book on the subject for my 2 bob's worth.
Digger
I think Werner Herzog should direct a film about the Caminos.
I have no problem finding myself - I own several mirrors. And wherever I go it is the same grumpy old bugger looking out of them. On the day when I see someone else looking back I will consider that "hallucination" rather than "revelation"As for finding oneself .. well .. could be problems there, be careful what you pray for.
I believe that the credits in the movie state that it is based on his book and, therefore by default - the movie Jack is Jack Hitt... Jack Hitt's work "Off The Road" obviously influenced the making of the film. Huge chunks of it form the basis of the screenplay and even the script. Still the best book on the subject for my 2 bob's worth.
Digger
Well said and very correct re: Hape’s book.
There was also some Korean documentary that is the apparent reason behind the large number of Koreans on the trail these days also.
Viewed the movie again this weekend, just to check on what all the hubbub was about. After reading all the opinions on this thread, I can away with a great regard for the film than I had previously, as I was able to see a lot more in it than I had before.Surely the place is merely the vehicle for the story?
If so then surely The Way is the same? Apart from the family's desire to do homage to their ancestors and the country they came from, and their religion, then for the character development of each person the journey could have been on a winter impeded train across the mid-west trying to get home for Christmas.
So did I. Found a deal on a used one on ebay.Thank you for that. I've ordered a copy.
- [ ] I agree with you. The theme of “faith, lost and found” would have been one which Martin Sheen could closely identify with. He went completely off-the-rails after Apocalypse Now, and identifies Charlie’s problems with his own struggles. Interestingly he was influenced to come back to his faith after conversations with Terrence Malick, who had directed him in his first starring role in that classic movie Badlands.But one thing that's not really been mentioned here is that the central point of the movie is about Tom's loss of faith, and how it affects his relationship with others and with himself. The first place he goes after hearing of his son's death is to a church, even though he feels there's no point. He goes on pilgrimage to heal his relationship with his son, which also leads to the healing of his relationship with himself and his faith. If that's what's inspired so many more Americans to walk the Camino then I'm all for it.
Some twenty or so years ago I was in SJPP as a tourist (went up by train just to ride my bike back down into Hendaye), and the place was packed with pilgrims then, I think mostly German. But I didn't think I had the ability to walk over the Pyrenees and across Spain at the time. So no, the movie didn't influence me, but I'm happy if it's influenced others.
Actually, it is a Hollywood-ish film. It would be a mistake to avoid its documentary qualities. And the only real relationship to Hollywood is created by the influence and storyline given by the Estevez / Sheen Family as well as their personal contributions in front of the camera.Of course it's a Hollywood film. How do you think it would get into the cinemas otherwise? Even so, it is likely the best Hollywood film which could be made of the Camino. Even with its (many) weaknesses, it gives viewers the flavour of how an accidental posse develops into solid bonds, of the daily grind, of the tremendous landscape, and of the varied response of arrival in Santiago. I saw it once, which was enough, and have a feeling of ambivalence on its effect on the Camino, but I would urge a realistic appreciation of a fair attempt.
It might explain why it is so expensive to pay for the Botafumeiro to be used: Eastern Orthodox priests are probably pretty scarce in Santiago at the best of times and hiring half a dozen of them must cost quite a bit. Would it save money to use Catholic priests instead since there always seem to be a few of them hanging around anyway?Not sure about tiraboleiros being Eastern Orthodox priests (and 6 vs 8 at that) but obviously it spoke to my Pastor as a movie that focused on faith lost and found and she saw a great merit in it
I absolutely love it that there are five or six Eastern Orthodox priests who come out and make the Botafumeiro swing in the movie "The Way".In the movie “The Way”, when the makers of the movie want to show Tom’s spiritual awakening toward the end of the movie, they have five or six Eastern Orthodox priests come out to begin swinging a HUGE censer that hangs on a bell-rope from the very-high ceiling of the huge church. As the priests pull the rope, this huge censer swings the entire length of this church — and what the movie makers are doing is using all of the powerful symbolism of what incense means to highlight the spiritual awakening that is happening with Tom
- [ ] I agree with you. The theme of “faith, lost and found” would have been one which Martin Sheen could closely identify with. He went completely off-the-rails after Apocalypse Now, and identifies Charlie’s problems with his own struggles. Interestingly he was influenced to come back to his faith after conversations with Terrence Malick, who had directed him in his first starring role in that classic movie Badlands.
Assuming I am one of "them", I would like to assure everybody that I am not lost. It is arrogant for a stranger to make this interpretation.they could be anywhere, hiking any other trail(s) and yet they chose to go on the Camino. They are lost, perhaps not even realizing it.
I think people are starving for Spiritual Faith. Look, they could be anywhere, hiking any other trail(s) and yet they chose to go on the Camino. They are lost, perhaps not even realizing it.
Assuming I am one of "them", I would like to assure everybody that I am not lost. It is arrogant for a stranger to make this interpretation.
Not sure how to interpret the thumps up so I will add that I restricted my comments to my interpretation of the motives and reactions of the two figures in the two film productions, one a movie and the other one a documentary, and that I will not extrapolate from there to the motives and reactions of the 300,000+ people who walk the caminos annually, something that the pastor did whom you quoted.
Yes, I realized that.Please note that the quote that the forum software attributed to @CWBuff was actually a quote he gave from a non-forum member.
Hi VN,Thanks, David. You've perfectly articulated one of the things that bothers me about the film. They probably couldn't have done otherwise, because tension and drama are required - that's what manipulates our emotions. And two hours of relative harmony, blisters, aches, and bodily odors would never have made much of a plot.
(They lost me to eye-rolling at the pack into the river scene...I mean...really?)
@gerip, thanks for posting this link. I have just watched it. I did see the film, years ago. It reminded me of another film, Into the West. The connection was the celluloid representation of a reality... which I thought was plastic, a bit twee, romanticised, whatever. I now will have a look online to see if the film is available to view. When I have time! this time round, I will try to be critical, not biased. I liked how Martin came across.To me what Martin Sheen says at 5:20 is the key to his portrayal of Tom in the movie.
It is on YouTube.I now will have a look online to see if the film is available to view.
Thanks, Rick, will follow that up.It is on YouTube.
YouTube id: OA6aq85WhXU
Our first CF, we stopped at a bridge similar to the one in the film.
I put my first aid kit....the full whack...tape, scissors etc with a bottle of betadine on the wall ...turned around and pushed it off....into the river it went and watched as it hit the water ... in slow motion
I have got the tv hooked up to my laptop so anyone near enough to East Wall, Dublin 3, come along around 6pm, show starts! Just send me a message so I can open the door to you!Thanks, Rick, will follow that up.
Also included on Amazon Prime, if you have it.It is on YouTube.
YouTube id: OA6aq85WhXU
The movie, just like 99.99999% of all movies is full of stereotyping. Not just the gypsy thief bit. That's just what they do in movies (and television shows). I have seen stereotypes of my demographics/background etc in movies all my life. Not that big a deal for me. I don't get mad because I laugh or am entertained by other stereotypes on the screen. They put what people want to see in the script. People like stereotypes.Sorry all, I’m gonna rant! I have been reading this topic for a while now and held back from answering. But I am annoyed, so here goes.
Disparage The Way? Disparage? I was insulted by the film. The first time I saw it I turned it off and went down the pub raging.
I first moved into a house when my Dad died when I was four years old. My Dad was a Roma (Romani, Gypsy, Gippo, Gitano or whatever you want). My mum wasn’t a Roma, she was a 16 year old Welsh village girl when they were married. I take after my Dad. I don’t like living indoors even though I am now 54.
I can see it now when they were writing the script. Bag gets stolen. Well, Gitano of course. What an insult, it just adds to the stereotype of what is a myth about my race. Why could he not get his bag stolen by a local youth?
Yes, he gets his bag back, the Gitano Dad brings it back, and they all party. I see that. But the fact it was a young Gitano that stole the bag does reinforce that Gitano = thief.
Now, I have actually managed to watch this film a few times since. Its not bad Camino wise. It has inaccuracies, no pain, blisters, rain or steep hills. It is out of sequence. I don’t think this detracts from the film at all.
The Gitano scenes boils my blood. Just like if it was set in the USA it would have been a black youth. Or set in the UK it would have been a working class youth off an impoverished council estate wearing a hoody. There is no excuse for this in the plot.
And I have heard from pilgrims, while walking the Camino, more than a few nasty comments about us Roma, as in we might steal your possessions. Because of this film. I never mentioned they were sleeping in an albergue with one of ‘THEM’.
Do you know, on the Camino Frances, there are two very poor housing areas you walk through that are mostly Gitano? I bet you don’t know where they are, and you wont because they are as friendly as everywhere else you will walk.
It was either a mistake to include the theft scene as a theft by a Gitano, or it was deliberate and that is what they, the makers of this film, actually think about me, my family and my Roma brothers and sisters around the world.
And you lot here, and everyone else on this wonderful planet are my brothers and sisters too. I love you all and respect you. I love our differences that make us special and unique. But a film that makes me and my race out to be thieves (as it is amongst the idiots and racists of the world) can be disparaged.
Thank you for your time, sorry for the rant.
Much love
Davy
The movie, just like 99.99999% of all movies is full of stereotyping. Not just the gypsy thief bit. That's just what they do in movies (and television shows). I have seen stereotypes of my demographics/background etc in movies all my life. Not that big a deal for me. I don't get mad because I laugh or am entertained by other stereotypes on the screen. They put what people want to see in the script. People like stereotypes.
Steady @Davey Boyd. We've been down this one before. Be a proud member of a proud tribe and move on.Thank you for your time, sorry for the rant.
Much love
Davy
Steady @Davey Boyd. We've been down this one before. Be a proud member of a proud tribe and move on.
You're welcome in this house anytime the wind blows you our way
Not sure about tiraboleiros being Eastern Orthodox priests
Wait, see? One person posts mythical content that they heard - nonsense, basically - and people take it as fact. Thanks @ Bradypus for poking at it.Would it save money to use Catholic priests instead since there
Agreed. There were a few scenes that were quite forced & phoney, (like the ones in the beginning with the police captain), but the whole Gitano segment was cringeworthy, and not only for the stereotyping. To be honest, Americans know very little about the Gitano in Europe, EE was probably depending on what was told to him by others. No human endeavour can ever be perfect.Sorry all, I’m gonna rant! I have been reading this topic for a while now and held back from answering. But I am annoyed, so here goes.
Disparage The Way? Disparage? I was insulted by the film. The first time I saw it I turned it off and went down the pub raging.
I first moved into a house when my Dad died when I was four years old. My Dad was a Roma (Romani, Gypsy, Gippo, Gitano or whatever you want). My mum wasn’t a Roma, she was a 16 year old Welsh village girl when they were married. I take after my Dad. I don’t like living indoors even though I am now 54.
I can see it now when they were writing the script. Bag gets stolen. Well, Gitano of course. What an insult, it just adds to the stereotype of what is a myth about my race. Why could he not get his bag stolen by a local youth?
Yes, he gets his bag back, the Gitano Dad brings it back, and they all party. I see that. But the fact it was a young Gitano that stole the bag does reinforce that Gitano = thief.
Now, I have actually managed to watch this film a few times since. Its not bad Camino wise. It has inaccuracies, no pain, blisters, rain or steep hills. It is out of sequence. I don’t think this detracts from the film at all.
The Gitano scenes boils my blood. Just like if it was set in the USA it would have been a black youth. Or set in the UK it would have been a working class youth off an impoverished council estate wearing a hoody. There is no excuse for this in the plot.
And I have heard from pilgrims, while walking the Camino, more than a few nasty comments about us Roma, as in we might steal your possessions. Because of this film. I never mentioned they were sleeping in an albergue with one of ‘THEM’.
Do you know, on the Camino Frances, there are two very poor housing areas you walk through that are mostly Gitano? I bet you don’t know where they are, and you wont because they are as friendly as everywhere else you will walk.
It was either a mistake to include the theft scene as a theft by a Gitano, or it was deliberate and that is what they, the makers of this film, actually think about me, my family and my Roma brothers and sisters around the world.
Bottom line. A film that encourages people to walk the Camino is good. One that teaches you to fear a certain race is bad.
And you lot here, and everyone else on this wonderful planet are my brothers and sisters too. I love you all and respect you. I love our differences that make us special and unique. But a film that makes me and my race out to be thieves (as it is amongst the idiots and racists of the world) can be more than disparaged.
Thank you for your time, sorry for the rant.
Much love
Davy
Sorry all, I’m gonna rant! I have been reading this topic for a while now and held back from answering. But I am annoyed, so here goes.
Disparage The Way? Disparage? I was insulted by the film. The first time I saw it I turned it off and went down the pub raging.
I first moved into a house when my Dad died when I was four years old. My Dad was a Roma (Romani, Gypsy, Gippo, Gitano or whatever you want). My mum wasn’t a Roma, she was a 16 year old Welsh village girl when they were married. I take after my Dad. I don’t like living indoors even though I am now 54.
I can see it now when they were writing the script. Bag gets stolen. Well, Gitano of course. What an insult, it just adds to the stereotype of what is a myth about my race. Why could he not get his bag stolen by a local youth?
Yes, he gets his bag back, the Gitano Dad brings it back, and they all party. I see that. But the fact it was a young Gitano that stole the bag does reinforce that Gitano = thief.
Now, I have actually managed to watch this film a few times since. Its not bad Camino wise. It has inaccuracies, no pain, blisters, rain or steep hills. It is out of sequence. I don’t think this detracts from the film at all.
The Gitano scenes boils my blood. Just like if it was set in the USA it would have been a black youth. Or set in the UK it would have been a working class youth off an impoverished council estate wearing a hoody. There is no excuse for this in the plot.
And I have heard from pilgrims, while walking the Camino, more than a few nasty comments about us Roma, as in we might steal your possessions. Because of this film. I never mentioned they were sleeping in an albergue with one of ‘THEM’.
Do you know, on the Camino Frances, there are two very poor housing areas you walk through that are mostly Gitano? I bet you don’t know where they are, and you wont because they are as friendly as everywhere else you will walk.
It was either a mistake to include the theft scene as a theft by a Gitano, or it was deliberate and that is what they, the makers of this film, actually think about me, my family and my Roma brothers and sisters around the world.
Bottom line. A film that encourages people to walk the Camino is good. One that teaches you to fear a certain race is bad.
And you lot here, and everyone else on this wonderful planet are my brothers and sisters too. I love you all and respect you. I love our differences that make us special and unique. But a film that makes me and my race out to be thieves (as it is amongst the idiots and racists of the world) can be more than disparaged.
Thank you for your time, sorry for the rant.
Much love
Davy
I am Irish and my family name is Jack. Guess how I feel about that idiot on the Way? Cant be helped tho. Poor actor has to make a living even tho he himself is Celt!
Kushti bok! I hope spelling is correct. I remember it from when I was a social worker with the travelling people!
Whatever,
walk soft
stay safe
and as ever Vaya con Dios
The Malingerer
They did at least try to subvert the stereotypes a little. Aren't Canadians always meant to be very friendly and extremely polite?Then there was the Dutchman who just happened to be a stoner!
It seems that you don't know how it came about that the scenes with the gitanos from Burgos are in the movie and what the intention of this narrative is ... I learnt about it much later.
Without knowing anything about the background for these scenes I, too, found these scenes weird and out of place. Not primarily because of the boy stealing the backpack but because of what many of the following scenes were so obviously trying to teach the viewer.
Me too....Irish I meanI am Irish and my family name is Jack. Guess how I feel about that idiot on the Way? Cant be helped tho. Poor actor has to make a living even tho he himself is Celt!
Kushti bok! I hope spelling is correct. I remember it from when I was a social worker with the travelling people!
Whatever,
walk soft
stay safe
and as ever Vaya con Dios
The Malingerer
Then there was the Dutchman who just happened to be a stoner
You probably meet them everyday, lol.I agree. But when the stereotype is about me I get a bit miffed. Especially when the stereotype is repeated to my face when walking the camino.
And if people like stereotypes of that kind that sais a lot about that person. Not one I would like to meet quite frankly.
But maybe it gets me more because I am not used to watching TV shows (or movies much), as I have never owned a TV!
Hope I didn't offend you
Best wishes
Davey
Yep, and his name was Jos. I had not seen the movie before starting my first Camino, and was a bit surprised when others (only Americans actually) - when founding out I was Dutch - started referring to this Jos figure and asking me whether I brought any hashish with me. It did not really bother me, but it was a bit tiring, as it such a worn out stereotype. But well, it is okay to be at the receiving end of such a rather harmless stereotype, but the gypsy stereotyping is far less harmless - so I understand your rant.
They've talked about this repeatedly in interviews and in their book. You described vividly how you perceived these scenes and I was a little taken aback to learn that what apparently some (many?) people are taking away from it is: "There are gypsies in Burgos and they steal. Be careful", whether in earnest or as a joke, thereby perpetually keeping these stereotypes alive and reenforcing them.No idea, please do tell! I would be interested why it was included.
Any film that can have this big gruff soldier veteran soldier cryingI’m biased. I loved it despite it’s faults.
And it really annoys me when people dismiss it with the throw-away line “Hollywood Movie” with every derogatory implication that goes with it. Just today I read that the modern popularity of the Camino derives from "Coelho, MacLain, Hollywood". I take the point, but did you mean "Coelho, MacLain, Estevez"?
Credit where credit is due folks. It was a labour of love by the Estevez family, INDEPENDENTLY financed, and intended as a homage to their own family heritage. Estevez himself describes it as a film inspired by a grandson, made by a son, starring a father, honouring a Galician grandfather, or words to that effect.
The making of that film owed nothing to Hollywood. Give it a break.
Same here someone ( probably a Gypsy tongue in cheek) stole my book on the second day aafter arriving at Ronsavalle Whilst waiting in queue and went the rest of “The Way” with only the maps book and a compass on the top of one of my walking poles.Sounds good. Do the maps only versions list the lodging and cafe options too?
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