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what they do when presented with a piece of cake on a plate and a set of knife and fork.
I don't think you did understand my meaning, it was not that the English speaking was ok and the German woman was not. I was talking about the "strangeness" of my feelings, why did I feel some irritation towards the monolingual german speaker and not towards the monolingual English speaker.(Antonious I am listening what you are saying are you?
The one monolingual was ok the other one not, that happened to be the non English speaker.)
In areas where you don't learn English let's say Russian first in school or like our man from Canada here no other language English is not the common language not on the Camino and please I hope I don't break youalls heart in the rest of the world.
It's nice to find a common language -
a true communicator in my opinion does what needs be but doesn't impose. It's like a looking class if you carry expectations like here of some one else doing what you do you may see one point clear but the rest is blocked. My feelings to this everybody should speek Greek or at least Latin.
Up to you! Though I would be interested. I never used a Brierley.Probably notIt often seems that expressing any criticism of the Brierley guides is the last great taboo in Camino circles. It always generates more heat than light. For a lot of reasons - some of which are fairly specific to my own background - I dislike Brierley's guides. If you would like to test the character limit of the forum's private conversations or chat on Facebook I will be happy to explain my opinions at ridiculous length privately....
It doesn't take long for people hearing me speak French, Spanish or Portuguese to offer English if they've got it, unfortunately.I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
I certainly recognize my privilege as a native English speaker.I used to feel this way - as if I were lazy by speaking my mother tongue. However, now I think that there needs to be an international language and that English is a good one to take that role. It is a very flexible language, it grew from the common people, has no academic academy in control, is very forgiving of mistakes, and it will continue to adapt.
Including pronouns (they/them/their). It's easy to get words into the peripheries of a language but to get words into the heart, where the pronouns lie, is something else. Not even the Norman French managed that.Some 5.000 words in English originate from us Vikings. Really.
(and the gold and silver!)Indeed. The English "language" is an international mix. Do not forget all the words stolen from Spanish...
and where did it come from?(and the gold and silver!)
I hate misquotes:
You know jolly well where it came from!and where did it come from?
Wow, that is disgusting. " Can you give me a hand"?It's true, like . . . . Kiosk
"Words like ‘kiosk’: that’s a Viking word and it came from when they would rape and pillage. Because they would rape and pillage and awful and blood everywhere and limbs hacked and money stolen, and then they’d say, ‘If you have enjoyed today’s experience, you can get some souvenirs in the kiosk down on the beach."
Eddie Izzard
Today I used Google translator local Huerta hombre. What a kick. He never did thatI am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Do what a lot of Brits do. Talk VERY LOUDLY and VERY S L O W L Y and a person of any nationality will be able to understand you!I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Or just made up (some by combining words from two different languages).Just shared that with my daughter who responded with:
"So that leaves 745,000 words we stole from Latin, Greek, French, German and Hindi . . " (SO much her father's daughter)
Monolingual? That sounds like an awful affliction! I am so sorry. On the other hand, ‘retired’ Monlingual sounds hopeful. Perhaps yo are retiring from your Monolingual community into a ‘polyglot’ one? In which case congratulations!I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
There are still Esperanto clubs all over the world...perhaps guidebooks in Klingon might soften those monolingual barriers!Antonious I am listening what you are saying are you?
The one monolingual was ok the other one not, that happened to be the non English speaker.
In areas where you don't learn English let's say Russian first in school or like our man from Canada here no other language English is not the common language not on the Camino and please I hope I don't break youalls heart in the rest of the world.
It's nice to find a common language -
a true communicator in my opinion does what needs be but doesn't impose. It's like a looking class if you carry expectations like here of some one else doing what you do you may see one point clear but the rest is blocked. My feelings to this everybody should speek Greek or at least Latin.
But handy, isn't it ;-)Sometimes I feel embarrassed that my mother tongue is English! We are monopolizing all over the World. Very unfair, I think
I saw a sales person with a name tag ™I speak English. ™An other one had one with Arabic I asume Hindi English and I thought what is he doing here..?I speak several languages. It is my hobby. I decided to put little flag pins on my backpack, like you might see on a website (click here for English...). I figured it would let people know that I speak English, Spanish, French and German. I did not get an Italian pin, because my Italian is so poor (at least speaking). Hopefully, it will encourage someone who is shy to say hello.
Deuter backpacks are really nice but hard to get here. The yellow book is the "Schmitke"?Look for pilgrims with heavy walking boots - they are likely to speak English.
People with yellow guidebooks and "Deuter"-backpacks usually come from Germany, but most of them have learnt English at School.
Lol. Yellow Joss but called Gelbe and red one Rother.Deuter backpacks are really nice but hard to get here. The yellow book is the "Schmitke"?
WIFI necesse est. CachinnosusI would agree that Montrealers are generally bilingual, but I have spent too long in Rimouski and Chicoutimi among francophone monoglots to say that of Québécois in general. As one drilled through years of Latin, I always regret that it has lost its status as the international language. Habeasne wifi?
Oooo. Touche.and where did it come from?
Hee hee...Verum peregrinus es?WIFI necesse est.
Hee hee...Verum peregrinus es?
Just in case you might use the phrase in the wrong time and place perhaps I should explain that "half colonel" is not an official termHi Bradypus I think it so cut that you have half colonels while across the oceans they have full birds. Always learning here.
Yes please lets polish up our kitchen latin. Lingua latina tibi nonnumquam est.Unicuique suum...omne bonum!
(Hey, this is sooooo cool. Who needs English? We have Latin!)
I worked with a French Canadian from Montreal. He visited Paris whereupon the locals asked him to speak English as they had difficulty in understanding his French!Don't forget nobody outside of Île-de-France speaks proper Frenchwe can but try to emulate them!
In fact the clearest French I've ever come across was from francophone West Africans - I think the tendency to a deeper voice helps too.
Would like to see this in Basque country.I'm planning to go with Galician phrases instead of Spanish. If I'm going to learn some it might as well be the ones relevant to where I am.
Maybe better than my greetings in castellano there.Would like to see this in Basque country.
Caastellano was no problem, they see you are foreigner already from afar anyway.Maybe better than my greetings in castellano there.
Yes but I encountered many coming toward me, probably on their way to work, that seemed to me to glare rather than smile when I gave them a greeting in castellano (and I always tried to use the word castellano in Spain rather than the Latin American espanol that I learned in school). And definitely Peg and I looked like foreigners.Caastellano was no problem, they see you are foreigner already from afar anyway.
Unicuique suum...omne bonum!
(Hey, this is sooooo cool. Who needs English? We have Latin!)
No. Disputatio ad invicem.
(In mime if that's necessary....)
What I hear along the Camino Frances, is pilgrims nattering all day long in a language in which they are confident. So either they seek each other out or they are naturally drawn to each other along linguistic competency lines. I don’t hear them exchange all day long the few words and phrases they may have taught themselves in Spanish.
I understand a lot of spoken Spanish and can read even more. My active Spanish is poor. In fact, I’ve been lazy with my learning and feel ashamed how atrocious my conversational skills are. Of course local people are gracious, often the elderly, and seem happy to listen and respond. But I’ve come to the conclusion that a few words and phrases are not enough. You need to know your verbs, how to decline them at least in the I and you/usted form and you need a past tense. Where I strongly believe any past tense will do. That’s what I did with French for years and years: passé composé and nothing else.
The overwhelming majority of conversations I had with pilgrims along the Camino Frances was in English, French, German and Dutch, roughly in that order. Rarely in Spanish. Was/is it different for most of you if you are not a native Spanish speaker or competent in Spanish???
So I fully support the OP‘s quest to seek out English speakers. Perhaps that’s because I know more than a few words and phrases in a few (European) languages ....?
sed ut primus inter pares fuerunt ...
I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
I have walked the camino frances twice and this year about to do my third and I only know a few words of Spanish, but have always got by also most of the people you come across speak a few words of English, so its give and take also you can always use hand signals and as for Brierleys guide that is up to the walker i found on my first two caminos that because there was plenty of yellow arrows and markers along the way i still missed seeing a lot so on my next trip in June have marked down the places i intend to visit this time round and you need a guide book to know whats what,to give you an idea of what i mean how many of camino walkers have seen or know of Our lady of the crag, a church (built into the side of the cliffs) and what lies within on the way out of Tosantos i passed it twice because i was day dreaming, and there are quite a few other places of interest on the camino that can be missed, also the guide is something to read.I walked my first two caminos using a Spanish language guidebook. I have not used a printed guidebook since. And I would not be carrying Brierley's guide no matter what language it was translated into.
... Google translate ....
We can do that with almost any language. Sometimes the results are hilarious, but it basically works.
De gustibus non disputandem est.....On the contrary .... your inspired post (quoted in my last) wins hands down!
OMG...Try running @Delphinoula “Lingua latina tibi nonnumquam est.“ through Google translate ...
Huh??? Do you really man that?“Huh??? Do you really man that?")
Huh??? Do you really man that?
This has caused me to almost choke to death...I hate misquotes:
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
They have a way with words, those Canadians, don't they?
Well, thanks, Jeff. I am always careful about discriminating between USA and Canada, but I confess to a total ignorance of the fact that Mexico also belongs to North America. Not any more. Now I know....Not all North Americans are citizens of the US - the OP is from Canada
(Mexico in in North America too)
Latin is a language as dead as dead can be it killed the ancient Romans and now it’s killing me. I had the false nerve to write that in my final Latin exam paper at the end of 3rd year secondary school. I really wanted to be excused, as the teacher was such a bully. He preferred the boys and the smart girls. I was called to the Principal. I used my only weapon. Tears. I was excused from further Latin classes... and then I learned some more. What a pity. I leave you with a lovely life lesson:... sed ut primus inter pares fuerunt ...
I cycle tour in many European countries. French cycle tourists often fly their flag to signify their Frenchness (I presume because few others choose to speak their language). French is my only slightly competent second language, so I always make a point of talking to them, in their language. They are without exception delighted to chat in their mother tongue, even if they have to slow down (their pedalling and their jabbering!).After starting with “Buen camino”, I usually ask, in English, “Where are you from?” This is a very neutral question and may lead to an English language back and forth.
In retirement I have put a lot of effort into improvement of my French. As a slow walker, when I am overtaken by people speaking French, I address them in their language.
Tom
De gustibus non disputandem est.....
And my gustibus is different from yours.
OMG...
How'd they get that?
What is even more bizarre is if you then take what they give you, and hit the little arrows at the top to exchange Latin and English you get even other things....
But to get back to the OP's topic...Rob's idea to speak into Google Translate and play back the result is still not a bad one. And any mis-translation that results can be the cause of a good deal of inter-linguistic hilarity.
@Robo, have you gotten any strange or puzzled looks, doing this? (As in..."Huh??? Do you really man that?")
... fui ibi, done that, gonna put it all on a t-shirt
But to get back to the OP's topic...Rob's idea to speak into Google Translate and play back the result is still not a bad one. And any mis-translation that results can be the cause of a good deal of inter-linguistic hilarity.
@Robo, have you gotten any strange or puzzled looks, doing this? (As in..."Huh??? Do you really man that?")
No, Laurie, it means that you are simply a realist.At that point I decided that life really was too short for me to learn German, and I am sorry if that qualifies me as a language imperialist.
Do you have any idea what Google was saying you were saying?Couldn't stop laughing!
Another myth debunked! Damn you Google search engine!Gotta love the Vikings and Eddie Izzard, but kiosk comes from a Middle Persian word for a garden pavilion:
I think it was the Paris Metro that took some inspiration from the architecture of the east and applied the name "kiosk" to booths where you can buy tickets, snacks, and souvenirs.
No, Laurie, it means that you are simply a realist.
Do you have any idea what Google was saying you were saying?
"My knee has a jet engine,"...that kind of ridiculous gibberish? Or was it just funny syntax and word choice?
I know ... Chats at the pub aren't as entertaining now that everyone has Google on their phone to verify facts.Another myth debunked! Damn you Google search engine!
Why would I not believe you? You are a pilgrim, aren’t you?I know ... Chats at the pub aren't as entertaining now that everyone has Google on their phone to verify facts.
But, believe it or not, I knew the etymology of kiosk without reference to Google.
Believe it or not, I claim to be one.Why would I not believe you? You are a pilgrim, aren’t you?
Restores my faith in humankind - triumph over the machines!I know ... Chats at the pub aren't as entertaining now that everyone has Google on their phone to verify facts.
But, believe it or not, I knew the etymology of kiosk without reference to Google.
@stinmd many thanks for the Youtube suggestion. I like Juan’s teaching method — lots of repetition, clear explanations, and he’s quite an amusing character. And great practice for that Castilian accent. I’ve got a few weeks to brush up and Juan can help!I have been studying conversational Spanish for a couple of years now. I can read and speak okay, but the bigger challenge is in listening comprehension. For this, I find a Youtube channel called "Espanol con Juan" very helpful. Thought I'd just pass this along
I never used a Brierley.
I speak several languages. It is my hobby. I decided to put little flag pins on my backpack, like you might see on a website (click here for English...). I figured it would let people know that I speak English, Spanish, French and German.
Hmmm, not sure what holla (pronounced o-ya) is.When I started, I definitely knew "gracias" and "holla"
Sounds more like US Marine than Spanish doesn't it?Hmmm, not sure what holla (pronounced o-ya) is.
I have to admit to just a smidgin of envy, too. But I'm used to it. I spend a lot of time with someone who is seriously multilingual...and I am never in this life going to be that.As a native English speaker that has been trying for years to become conversant in Spanish I officially hate you.
You could try saying - do you speak English? LI am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Puedes acercarte y preguntarle:I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Many, many people have asked this question before you and the answer is still the same, the majority of Spanish people along the Camino Francis (and other routes) do not speak English and this is not a problem, you will get by just fine and in a few days you will have figured out the important Spanish words and with a combination of pointing at what you want and learning when to say Gracias a lot you'll be fine. Enjoy your camino.I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Sometimes I feel embarrassed that my mother tongue is English! We are monopolizing all over the World. Very unfair, I think
Say:" Hablas Ingles?"I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
A: English and American !!Q A person who speaks 1 language?
A: French!!
InI also walked three caminos previously, in 2015, 2016, and 2017. I did manage fine, except for occasionally sharing a bunk with a man on a couple of occasions who went to bed after I did and I never seemed to have a chance to introduce myself. I am somewhat shy and find that I am not always confident to try to introduce myself to persons with whom I share a space but possibly not a language. For example, I have sat down at tables in, or outside, a bar and not spoken to another person at the table, if he or she did not take the first step. And I am not monolingual. I speak fair French, some German, and am working on learning Spanish. I have spoken German with a monolingual elderly German gentleman and French with a very rude monolingual Frenchman, who amused himself criticizing my French. Each meeting is unique and the best thing to get me to talk to anyone is simply to either introduce yourself or express a need. But I know that I have to work harder at meeting whomever is open to an encounter. I don't have any answers, only not to give up and to reach out whenever an appropriate situation presents itself. This is my major project for my next camino.
I share your feelings. Being an introvert, the thought of breaking the ice and starting a conversation with a total stranger terrified me, especially with my weird ESL accent. Then one of my teachers taught me an icebreaker which I have used ever since. It goes like this: “Hi, I don’t know how to start a conversation so I will start by asking how is your day? By the way, my name is Tom. And no, I am not Tom Hank.” I am not sure why, but most people smile and talk to me afterwards.I also walked three caminos previously, in 2015, 2016, and 2017. I did manage fine, except for occasionally sharing a bunk with a man on a couple of occasions who went to bed after I did and I never seemed to have a chance to introduce myself. I am somewhat shy and find that I am not always confident to try to introduce myself to persons with whom I share a space but possibly not a language. For example, I have sat down at tables in, or outside, a bar and not spoken to another person at the table, if he or she did not take the first step. And I am not monolingual. I speak fair French, some German, and am working on learning Spanish. I have spoken German with a monolingual elderly German gentleman and French with a very rude monolingual Frenchman, who amused himself criticizing my French. Each meeting is unique and the best thing to get me to talk to anyone is simply to either introduce yourself or express a need. But I know that I have to work harder at meeting whomever is open to an encounter. I don't have any answers, only not to give up and to reach out whenever an appropriate situation presents itself. This is my major project for my next camino.
You are so right about being able to get help without one single word of the native language.WOW!!! Post #101 -
A possibly different perspective? When travelling, I do not give communication a moment's concern. I know we will figure out what needs to be done. Why? When I meet a stranger on the street, on my way somewhere, I have a map and roughly know where I am going but need a bit of help. A smattering of the indigenous language can help but is rarely necessary.
Having said that, I have found that if, say in Spain, if you start by saying something in Spanish, no matter how badly, the effort is incredibly appreciated and the conversation changes from stressed and maybe forced to a calm, happy conversation, maybe some espanol, un poco de ingles. But again, we are both happy when we say, "Adios."
Well I do speak fluent Italian and Spanish, apart from my mother tongue English! I can also get by with passable French and Dutch. So I’m not embarrassed about speaking other languages. In fact I love the challengeDid you choose to have English as your mother tongue? Don't be embarrassed, learn another language, or several. And remember just how many countries have Spanish as their official language, so no monopolizing.
When I walked Vezelay, I stayed in an abri where the man in charge, a Frenchman, said:
Q: What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages?
A: Trilingual.
Q: A person who speaks 2 languages?
A: Bilingual.
Q A person who speaks 1 language?
A: French!!
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