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It happens. No doubt someone else can explain the process, but it happens.Just reading this thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/news-from-the-camino.86228/ and the OP mentions people being fined €12000. I knew that you cannot do the Napoleon in certain weather and would have no intention going against any advice.
However from a UK perspective, someone getting fined so heavily for doing this is extraordinary.
Does this really happen, is it an on the spot fine or a local court, or an Urban Myth.
The case I was thinking of in the UK was this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-66762308 where a rescue got badly injured and subsequently died.
The people rescued were breaking lockdown rules.
Nothing like a €12000 fine.
This case is very different to the UK
It did not happen.the OP mentions people being fined €12000
I read the original post but I did not bother to comment. You may have noticed that this ""news"" was "heard from two different sources (who didn't know each other) in two different towns" - so it must be trueThats that cleared up then.
The voice of reason, thank you.I read the original post but I did not bother to comment. You may have noticed that this ""news"" was "heard from two different sources (who didn't know each other) in two different towns" - so it must be true.
These stories are dished up every year and the fines get larger and larger.
Misuse and abuse of rescue operations in the mountains is a serious topic. It ought to be discussed seriously and not based on hearsay.
Thank youRegardless of fines (which likely can be imposed by french or spanish authorities specifically for this route or endangering rescue personnel in general-i'm not inclined to research it) the rescue costs can be significant and since this article is from 2016 I'm sure they have increased.
Desafiando la Ruta de Napoleón
A pesar de su prohibición, son muchos los peregrinos que en invierno eligen la etapa francesa por el monte, atravesando el puerto de Lepoeder a 1.430 metros, poniendo en riesgo su vida y la de los bomberos de Burguete que acuden a su rescatewww.noticiasdenavarra.com
"The Government, for its part, in addition to having decreed restrictions, charges for mobilizing its emergency resources up to €1,400 per helicopter, €50 per hour for an ambulance and €30 per hour for each rescue personnel. In fact, the bill issued to the Brazilian pilgrim rescued in Ibañeta this same month amounted to 5,360 euros."
Hence the thread, an attempt to get accurate information.Misuse and abuse of rescue operations in the mountains is a serious topic. It ought to be discussed seriously and not based on hearsay.
Hence the thread, an attempt to get accurate information.
From what I can gather though, in the UK, MRT volunteers tend to be rather non judgemental and would rather people got out and did things as opposed to not.
An issue in the UK though seems to be Mobile phones enabling people when a tad weary to phone for rescue, much as they would, an Uber.
Though not doubting you, I would like a little more about the authorities powers vis a vis The Napoleon route and stopping people proceeding into the mountains,
Healthcare related costs are of course another different kettle of fish. I don't follow developments in the UK very closely but I seem to remember that non-residents may now also get charged for NHS services when they need medical care in the UK, at least in some cases.For people from the UK with free at point of use healthcare and free MRT and free helicopter rescue, the systems elsewhere are totally alien, and it is very interesting for me to try and see other perspectives.
Misuse and abuse of rescue operations in the mountains is a serious topic. It ought to be discussed seriously and not based on hearsay.
Wonder how many pilgrims travel without insurance?
Not many. In the UK we have the Foreign and Commonwealth Office who issue travel advice, and if they advice against travel, then most policies will not cover you.I wonder how many insurers would cover you for ignoring travel warnings or intentionally putting yourself in danger.
For example many insurers will deny claims if a hospital report notes alcohol in your system.
Ah, a kindred soul perhapsit maybe worth considering the Austrian Alpine club who offer rescue as part of membership,
Pretty sure it would have been all over the local Navarra news websites and the Facebook and Twitter accounts for the SJPDP pilgrim office, the Roncesvalles albergue, the Navarra police local and/or the Guardia Civil. No mention of it anywhere.No Camino pilgrim has ever been fined €12.000. I am confident that it would have made it into Spanish news. It did not happen.
I now know again where the €12.000 come from. I had looked into this in March 2016.
Quote: There are no legal restrictions on the track in France. The legal restrictions start at this point: 43°3'2,02"N and 1°16'6,04"W ...
Near the Fuente de Roldán?
The Spanish border
Being curious about stuff in general, I was just wondering if the coordinates in the legislation cited by Kathar1na are also coincidentally, or perhaps not coincidentally, the coordinates of the Fuente de Roldán.
That would be so romantic but, sadly, it isn't the case. 43°3'2,02"N 1°16'6,04"W is the point where you enter Spanish territory on the Napoleon trail. It is the point where Spanish law starts to apply.Being curious about stuff in general, I was just wondering if the coordinates in the legislation cited by Kathar1na are also coincidentally, or perhaps not coincidentally, the coordinates of the Fuente de Roldán.
It does.I stand to be corrected but i highly doubt the legislation details coordinates.
Nope. And nobody has suggested that.Seems to be a market to allow people to trek it with a guide during winter months, or as has previously been suggested, with adequate insurance.
Seems to be a market to allow people to trek it with a guide during winter months, or as has previously been suggested, with adequate insurance.
Indeed. The closure order is very specific. One particular route. If anyone wants to walk to Roncesvalles in winter on a high-level route they can walk any other path they choose. Over the tops of mountains if they wish. Though that may be unwise. Walking the only route which is very specifically barred seems unnecessarily provocative.Anybody is dead keen on walking over the Pyrenees during November to March has dozens if not hundreds of passes to choose from, such as the Ibañeta pass from Valcarlos, or the Somport pass or many many others
I'm sorry to say so but this discussion does not lead anywhere other than perhaps to a thread closure. There is no market full stop. The decree about the legal ban is issued by the government of Navarra. They issue this decree every year for the winter months based on their assessment. It is frankly and in my humble opinion plain silly to think that anybody MUST walk EXACTLY there at any time of their choosing throughout the year.What I was saying is there may be a market to permit people to cross before 1st april provided they're with a professional guide.
@Pilgrim9, this may interest you: a map of the old border stones marking the French-Spanish border from the Cantabrian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea across the whole range of the Pyrenees. There are other websites with photographs of dozens of them. I think somebody may have photographed all of them but I am not sure anymore. I guess we walked past three of them but, as so many things that one is not aware of beforehand, I did not even notice them.
https://www.carlosyconchita.net/rutas/wp-content/uploads/gpx/BornasCarlosConchitaTodas.html
And also:
I'm sorry to say so but this discussion does not lead anywhere other than perhaps to a thread closure. There is no market full stop. The decree about the legal ban is issued by the government of Navarra. They issue this decree every year for the winter months based on their assessment. It is frankly and in my humble opinion plain silly to think that anybody MUST walk EXACTLY there at any time of their choosing throughout the year.
We’ve seen some of these clowns near Scafell Pike in stiletto heels….white of course…also some in flip flops!It happens. No doubt someone else can explain the process, but it happens.
Personally I’ve long thought that idiots who do stupid stuff like taking a 14 month old baby up Scafell Pike in the winter, this should be fined, or presented with a bill for the rescue effort
Children rescued from Scafell Pike area
A FAMILY that included a five-year-old boy and a 14-month-old baby found themselves stranded for several hours on a cold, wet and windy Lake…www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk
Or
Staycationers putting their lives at risk in a 'tidal wave' of avoidable mountain rescues
It took five teams 12 hours to rescue a family-of-three from Scafell Pike last weekend.news.sky.com
Or
Too high: men rescued from Scafell Pike 'unable to walk due to cannabis'
‘Words fail us,’ say police after four men had to be helped down from England’s highest mountain in the Lake Districtwww.theguardian.com
My humble opinion: If exceptions are made it only increases the number of people who believe that they, too, are exceptional. I already start to regret my participation in this thread.But no need to get upset just because i made a recommendation.
As a fellow UK national, actually the systems aren't that different. Many of the costs of rescue and treatment which would be met by taxpayers (ie NHS services) for a UK citizen are now supposed to be billed to foreign nationals, presumably to be covered by travel or medical insurance, if it remains valid despite the foolish choices of those being treated/rescued. There are some exceptions for life threatening emergency treatment, but I wouldn't want to rely on them.That is very interesting, thank you.
For people from the UK with free at point of use healthcare and free MRT and free helicopter rescue, the systems elsewhere are totally alien, and it is very interesting for me to try and see other perspectives.
Thank you again for your posting.
Hopefully, soon, the fine will be increased to 18,000 Euro and even higher. No one has the 'right' to put another person's life at risk, whether it is someone on the trek itself (like immature teenagers or children) or whether it is a rescurer. Stupidity, poor judgement, and poor discipline ought to be rewarded accordingly.Just reading this thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/news-from-the-camino.86228/ and the OP mentions people being fined €12000. I knew that you cannot do the Napoleon in certain weather and would have no intention going against any advice.
However from a UK perspective, someone getting fined so heavily for doing this is extraordinary.
Does this really happen, is it an on the spot fine or a local court, or an Urban Myth.
The OP of that thread mentioned that two pilgrims said that there had been a €12000 fine, but we have zero proof that this happened.Just reading this thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/news-from-the-camino.86228/ and the OP mentions people being fined €12000.
No Camino pilgrim has ever been fined €12.000. I am confident that it would have made it into Spanish news
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