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Fantastic.....I will take a read through it.Hi, mishlove...
Below is a post I have made on this issue before. Maybe it will be of help
------------------------------------------------------------
Water will enter trail runner shoes, hiking shoes, or backpacking boots through any opening during a rainstorm, when walking through wet grass and brush, or drench into them if you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.
There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is always effective.
“Waterproof” shoes are a misnomer for several reasons.
- First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system can be uncomfortably hot in warm weather during rain-soaked conditions. It offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.
- You can try using a footwear with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not often seen a gaiter or other waterproof trapping that would both keep the water out and keep the feet dry.
When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing. Sometimes a shoe will start the test period working fairly well under a narrow range of wet conditions, but as the testing progresses the failures increase.
- They can fail because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term because it is difficult to apply and cover all areas of the footwear sufficiently.
- The waterproof coating or laminate in the shoes does not last. Some manufacturers of the lightweight trail shoes, which are usually constructed as a hybrid of fabric and leather, have treated them with a coating which can quickly wear off. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.
- Footwear which relies on a “Gore-Tex” style of waterproof/breathable laminate will break down through both wear and tear and dirt buildup on the material which renders it ineffective.
Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Gore-Tex, are only marginally breathable — water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. It can't. Unlike outerwear, the shoe material radically inhibits the ability of the membrane to allow water vapor to escape, thereby trapping it in the shoe.
So, on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet from outside moisture as well.
This is why most experienced trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.
In working with folks new to backpacking who ask about waterproof footwear recommendations, I have asked why they wanted waterproof shoes. Sometimes, they will look at me as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Most will answer that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.
This post is meant to help inform, reassure, and give a different line of thought and reasoning to this issue.
I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:
I have never had total success at keeping my feet dry in very wet conditions, which led me to research what has been done to develop effective strategies. If I can’t keep my feet dry, then I need to try and eliminate or minimize the risk of any of the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking.
- “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.
- “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons: shoes still get wet, and feet soak with sweat. However – In cold weather these socks can be the basis for using vapor barrier warmth conservation of the feet.
- Wearing multiple pairs of socks, frequently changing from wet to dry, which eventually all get wet.
- Carrying multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet, too.
Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.
What are the most frequent and problematic 'bad' things?
So, what does work for me, and others, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather?
- Maceration is the medical term for pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs a lot of moisture and gets “soggy” from that moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.
- Cracking of the skin when the macerated feet dry. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.
Goop which has a high content of wax – either bee or paraffin – is most ideal, especially if it also has a high lanolin content.
- Apply a good, thick coating of a Goop (ointment or salve) to my feet and between toes before putting on socks and shoes in the morning. If rain occurs later in the day, then remove shoes and socks and do the same. This helps protect from external moisture.
Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to: be it rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.
- Wear non-waterproof shoes which can drain and then dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail running shoes, and trail shoes often have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.
I find that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores.
- Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm and comfortable in most seasons and temperature ranges, unless the weather is frigid winter-cold.
- Take off shoes and socks to let feet air dry during rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes.During this time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also wipe off moisture on my feet and then reapply a goodly amount of Goop to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.
- When stopping for the day, apply Goop to the bottoms of feet, both before and after showering.
- Carry an extra pair of insoles. These insoles do not have to be your preferred “walking” insoles that you may have purchased separately. These can be the lightweight pair which came with your shoes. These will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.
When I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. This accelerates drying out the shoes. Depending on the shoe’s material, within a couple of hours the shoes are mostly dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------
- At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process, if need be, during the night.
- Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at while sleeping; this gives feet 8-9 hours of recovery.
Fantastic.....I will take a read through it.
Appreciated.......and will do.If you have further questions, use the private message function to get into contact with me. Let me also stress that footwear choices are affected by many things including seasons, terrain, and medically necessary orthopedic concerns. This information about caring for wet feet applies to all types of footwear.
I deal with types of footwear choices for backpacking, hiking/trekking, and walking as a separate topic.
Hi, mishlove...
Below is a post I have made on this issue before. Maybe it will be of help
------------------------------------------------------------
that may be non-waterproof may be better
Not sure I know what Goop is. I think my kids used something brand named Goop in their hair. Is this like Vaseline.Hi, mishlove...
Below is a post I have made on this issue before. Maybe it will be of help
------------------------------------------------------------
Water will enter trail runner shoes, hiking shoes, or backpacking boots through any opening during a rainstorm, when walking through wet grass and brush, or drench into them if you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.
There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is always effective.
“Waterproof” shoes are a misnomer for several reasons.
- First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system can be uncomfortably hot in warm weather during rain-soaked conditions. It offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.
- You can try using a footwear with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not often seen a gaiter or other waterproof trapping that would both keep the water out and keep the feet dry.
When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing. Sometimes a shoe will start the test period working fairly well under a narrow range of wet conditions, but as the testing progresses the failures increase.
- They can fail because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term because it is difficult to apply and cover all areas of the footwear sufficiently.
- The waterproof coating or laminate in the shoes does not last. Some manufacturers of the lightweight trail shoes, which are usually constructed as a hybrid of fabric and leather, have treated them with a coating which can quickly wear off. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.
- Footwear which relies on a “Gore-Tex” style of waterproof/breathable laminate will break down through both wear and tear and dirt buildup on the material which renders it ineffective.
Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Gore-Tex, are only marginally breathable — water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. It can't. Unlike outerwear, the shoe material radically inhibits the ability of the membrane to allow water vapor to escape, thereby trapping it in the shoe.
So, on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet from outside moisture as well.
This is why most experienced trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.
In working with folks new to backpacking who ask about waterproof footwear recommendations, I have asked why they wanted waterproof shoes. Sometimes, they will look at me as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Most will answer that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.
This post is meant to help inform, reassure, and give a different line of thought and reasoning to this issue.
I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:
I have never had total success at keeping my feet dry in very wet conditions, which led me to research what has been done to develop effective strategies. If I can’t keep my feet dry, then I need to try and eliminate or minimize the risk of any of the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking.
- “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.
- “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons: shoes still get wet, and feet soak with sweat. However – In cold weather these socks can be the basis for using vapor barrier warmth conservation of the feet.
- Wearing multiple pairs of socks, frequently changing from wet to dry, which eventually all get wet.
- Carrying multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet, too.
Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.
What are the most frequent and problematic 'bad' things?
So, what does work for me, and others, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather?
- Maceration is the medical term for pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs a lot of moisture and gets “soggy” from that moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.
- Cracking of the skin when the macerated feet dry. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.
Goop which has a high content of wax – either bee or paraffin – is most ideal, especially if it also has a high lanolin content.
- Apply a good, thick coating of a Goop (ointment or salve) to my feet and between toes before putting on socks and shoes in the morning. If rain occurs later in the day, then remove shoes and socks and do the same. This helps protect from external moisture.
Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to: be it rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.
- Wear non-waterproof shoes which can drain and then dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail running shoes, and trail shoes often have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.
I find that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores.
- Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm and comfortable in most seasons and temperature ranges, unless the weather is frigid winter-cold.
- Take off shoes and socks to let feet air dry during rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes.During this time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also wipe off moisture on my feet and then reapply a goodly amount of Goop to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.
- When stopping for the day, apply Goop to the bottoms of feet, both before and after showering.
- Carry an extra pair of insoles. These insoles do not have to be your preferred “walking” insoles that you may have purchased separately. These can be the lightweight pair which came with your shoes. These will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.
When I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. This accelerates drying out the shoes. Depending on the shoe’s material, within a couple of hours the shoes are mostly dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------
- At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process, if need be, during the night.
- Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at while sleeping; this gives feet 8-9 hours of recovery.
@Elle Bieling ...I think you need to try these out and report back. haha ...They look like an interesting resurrection of rainboots from the 1950's, but not sure the sole would survive the terrain.I stumbled on these on Amazon. Has anyone tried something like this?? https://amzn.to/2t32eDy Looks interesting to me.
Thanks, Dave. This is a great piece of reasoning and advice.Hi, mishlove...
Below is a post I have made on this issue before. Maybe it will be of help
------------------------------------------------------------
Water will enter trail runner shoes, hiking shoes, or backpacking boots through any opening during a rainstorm, when walking through wet grass and brush, or drench into them if you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.
There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is always effective.
“Waterproof” shoes are a misnomer for several reasons.
- First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system can be uncomfortably hot in warm weather during rain-soaked conditions. It offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.
- You can try using a footwear with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not often seen a gaiter or other waterproof trapping that would both keep the water out and keep the feet dry.
When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing. Sometimes a shoe will start the test period working fairly well under a narrow range of wet conditions, but as the testing progresses the failures increase.
- They can fail because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term because it is difficult to apply and cover all areas of the footwear sufficiently.
- The waterproof coating or laminate in the shoes does not last. Some manufacturers of the lightweight trail shoes, which are usually constructed as a hybrid of fabric and leather, have treated them with a coating which can quickly wear off. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.
- Footwear which relies on a “Gore-Tex” style of waterproof/breathable laminate will break down through both wear and tear and dirt buildup on the material which renders it ineffective.
Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Gore-Tex, are only marginally breathable — water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. It can't. Unlike outerwear, the shoe material radically inhibits the ability of the membrane to allow water vapor to escape, thereby trapping it in the shoe.
So, on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet from outside moisture as well.
This is why most experienced trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.
In working with folks new to backpacking who ask about waterproof footwear recommendations, I have asked why they wanted waterproof shoes. Sometimes, they will look at me as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Most will answer that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.
This post is meant to help inform, reassure, and give a different line of thought and reasoning to this issue.
I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:
I have never had total success at keeping my feet dry in very wet conditions, which led me to research what has been done to develop effective strategies. If I can’t keep my feet dry, then I need to try and eliminate or minimize the risk of any of the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking.
- “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.
- “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons: shoes still get wet, and feet soak with sweat. However – In cold weather these socks can be the basis for using vapor barrier warmth conservation of the feet.
- Wearing multiple pairs of socks, frequently changing from wet to dry, which eventually all get wet.
- Carrying multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet, too.
Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.
What are the most frequent and problematic 'bad' things?
So, what does work for me, and others, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather?
- Maceration is the medical term for pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs a lot of moisture and gets “soggy” from that moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.
- Cracking of the skin when the macerated feet dry. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.
Goop which has a high content of wax – either bee or paraffin – is most ideal, especially if it also has a high lanolin content.
- Apply a good, thick coating of a Goop (ointment or salve) to my feet and between toes before putting on socks and shoes in the morning. If rain occurs later in the day, then remove shoes and socks and do the same. This helps protect from external moisture.
Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to: be it rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.
- Wear non-waterproof shoes which can drain and then dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail running shoes, and trail shoes often have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.
I find that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores.
- Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm and comfortable in most seasons and temperature ranges, unless the weather is frigid winter-cold.
- Take off shoes and socks to let feet air dry during rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes.During this time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also wipe off moisture on my feet and then reapply a goodly amount of Goop to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.
- When stopping for the day, apply Goop to the bottoms of feet, both before and after showering.
- Carry an extra pair of insoles. These insoles do not have to be your preferred “walking” insoles that you may have purchased separately. These can be the lightweight pair which came with your shoes. These will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.
When I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. This accelerates drying out the shoes. Depending on the shoe’s material, within a couple of hours the shoes are mostly dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------
- At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process, if need be, during the night.
- Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at while sleeping; this gives feet 8-9 hours of recovery.
Great to see a post from you again, but what is goop?Hi, mishlove...
Below is a post I have made on this issue before. Maybe it will be of help
------------------------------------------------------------
Water will enter trail runner shoes, hiking shoes, or backpacking boots through any opening during a rainstorm, when walking through wet grass and brush, or drench into them if you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.
There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is always effective.
“Waterproof” shoes are a misnomer for several reasons.
- First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system can be uncomfortably hot in warm weather during rain-soaked conditions. It offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.
- You can try using a footwear with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not often seen a gaiter or other waterproof trapping that would both keep the water out and keep the feet dry.
When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing. Sometimes a shoe will start the test period working fairly well under a narrow range of wet conditions, but as the testing progresses the failures increase.
- They can fail because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term because it is difficult to apply and cover all areas of the footwear sufficiently.
- The waterproof coating or laminate in the shoes does not last. Some manufacturers of the lightweight trail shoes, which are usually constructed as a hybrid of fabric and leather, have treated them with a coating which can quickly wear off. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.
- Footwear which relies on a “Gore-Tex” style of waterproof/breathable laminate will break down through both wear and tear and dirt buildup on the material which renders it ineffective.
Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Gore-Tex, are only marginally breathable — water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. It can't. Unlike outerwear, the shoe material radically inhibits the ability of the membrane to allow water vapor to escape, thereby trapping it in the shoe.
So, on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet from outside moisture as well.
This is why most experienced trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.
In working with folks new to backpacking who ask about waterproof footwear recommendations, I have asked why they wanted waterproof shoes. Sometimes, they will look at me as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Most will answer that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.
This post is meant to help inform, reassure, and give a different line of thought and reasoning to this issue.
I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:
I have never had total success at keeping my feet dry in very wet conditions, which led me to research what has been done to develop effective strategies. If I can’t keep my feet dry, then I need to try and eliminate or minimize the risk of any of the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking.
- “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.
- “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons: shoes still get wet, and feet soak with sweat. However – In cold weather these socks can be the basis for using vapor barrier warmth conservation of the feet.
- Wearing multiple pairs of socks, frequently changing from wet to dry, which eventually all get wet.
- Carrying multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet, too.
Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.
What are the most frequent and problematic 'bad' things?
So, what does work for me, and others, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather?
- Maceration is the medical term for pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs a lot of moisture and gets “soggy” from that moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.
- Cracking of the skin when the macerated feet dry. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.
Goop which has a high content of wax – either bee or paraffin – is most ideal, especially if it also has a high lanolin content.
- Apply a good, thick coating of a Goop (ointment or salve) to my feet and between toes before putting on socks and shoes in the morning. If rain occurs later in the day, then remove shoes and socks and do the same. This helps protect from external moisture.
Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to: be it rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.
- Wear non-waterproof shoes which can drain and then dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail running shoes, and trail shoes often have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.
I find that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores.
- Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm and comfortable in most seasons and temperature ranges, unless the weather is frigid winter-cold.
- Take off shoes and socks to let feet air dry during rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes.During this time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also wipe off moisture on my feet and then reapply a goodly amount of Goop to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.
- When stopping for the day, apply Goop to the bottoms of feet, both before and after showering.
- Carry an extra pair of insoles. These insoles do not have to be your preferred “walking” insoles that you may have purchased separately. These can be the lightweight pair which came with your shoes. These will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.
When I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. This accelerates drying out the shoes. Depending on the shoe’s material, within a couple of hours the shoes are mostly dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------
- At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process, if need be, during the night.
- Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at while sleeping; this gives feet 8-9 hours of recovery.
I am no expert but I do know that wet feet generally means blisters. When I fell in a river back in April, my only concern was walking with wet feet so instead of worrying about the fact I nearly drowned, all I could think of was getting dry socks on. I wear Scarpa light weight leather boots with wicking foot beds. For socks I wear light weight non cotton wicking ones and have never had any problems with wet feet. Only Irish and British folk will know what I mean but socks from Lidl are perfect followed by Regatta in my opinion. Every morning, I smear Vick on my feet before starting out. Keeping feet lubricated reduces friction and prevents blisters. I dont know if there is any truth in this but as an aside, I have been told the smell of Vick keeps bed bugs at bay. I feel that non waterproof footwear is asking for trouble. If your feet get damp from sweat, surely wearing shoes that may stop sweat but get them soaked in the rain is a poor trade off. I have always found that leather footwear for hiking or everyday use prevents sweat, man made material makes me sweat badlyI need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
It has crossed my mind and definitely something to consider. Thanks@mishlove , a PS to my post above.
Have you considered sandals (Keen, Teva etc)? (Not jandals / flip flops)
Many report finding these a good option for day to day use. I would want toe protection and a back strap to keep an orthotic in place.
I have Oboz (waterproof)that I wore from Lausanne to Rome. Only twice were my feet wet-had to walk through stream or downpour .I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
...I have heard only good on these "Altra 3.5 mesh trail runners" but cannot find them in Toronto (All out of stock). Do you know of another Altra equal?I have winter hiking boots that are Keenes but only through a winter Camino, They never failed as waterproof, but my feet would sweat and there was condensation in the boots which took a long time to dry. My regular hiking shoes are Altra 3.5 mesh trail runners rain or shine and even fording rivers because the easy to clean and dry quickly. Those along with my smart wool socks my feet keep warm. I always have a dry pair of socks to change into.
I purchase mine on line. Look under the Altra website for other ways to purchase them...I have heard only good on these "Altra 3.5 mesh trail runners" but cannot find them in Toronto (All out of stock). Do you know of another Altra equal?
lol. You are a braver sole then I.....purchasing shoes online...I have yet to get there.I purchase mine on line. Look under the Altra website for other ways to purchase them
Between my foot size and living in a smallish city, I can rarely find the shoes that fit me locally. So I tend to order online. I can try the shoes on at home, and I only buy from companies that offer free shipping both ways. Zappos allows an entire year to return! Of course the shoes have to be in new condition.lol. You are a braver sole then I.....purchasing shoes online...I have yet to get there.
I'll see what I can find.....maybe even give it a try....thanks.Between my foot size and living in a smallish city, I can rarely find the shoes that fit me locally. So I tend to order online. I can try the shoes on at home, and I only buy from companies that offer free shipping both ways. Zappos allows an entire year to return! Of course the shoes have to be in new condition.
I know that @Viggen Avedissian was quoting here, but this must be the best thing written on this subject, and perhaps the most accurate reflection on the way the debate goes here as well - we tend to stick to one or other approach.Verdict: Truthfully, we thought this debate would rage on and require more scrolling, but we each found the other’s case to be compelling while refusing to give up any ground. The decision comes down to personal preference; how your body works, how you hike and where you live will all come to play in deciding whether to go waterproof or not. Hopefully, our brief argument has shed some light on the pros and cons associated with either choice.
Great to see a post from you again, but what is goop?
I will take a read through, thanks. With the information in this thread, (which is invaluable) I will walk with nonwaterproof shoes on my next walk. I have to, as a measure of and for myself, considering the variables. But which goop to use?...still to be decided.I know that @Viggen Avedissian was quoting here, but this must be the best thing written on this subject, and perhaps the most accurate reflection on the way the debate goes here as well - we tend to stick to one or other approach.
If you are reading this without having read the whole post from @Viggen Avedissian, it's worth going back to it to read it all the way through.
Oy vey.......can you point me to it, please.There is another part of the footwear decision 'path', and that is the type of footwear itself. Not whether or not to get waterproof footwear, but the type of shoe itself. Boots, trail runners, runners, shoe height (low top), mid-ankle, high top, etc.
That's a whole other thread.
Oy vey.......can you point me to it, please.
I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
It depends how sensitive you are to the marketing.
Back in the days wool was the best material for the Great Outdoors, then it became the enemy, now it's trendy again. So, probably the same "influencers" who now claim that it's better to walk with shoes and feet completely drenched in water rather than mildly moist from perspiration, will claim the opposite in few years time. It's just the never ending circle of marketing.
Thank you.@mishlove , I only wish the advice from @davebugg was available when I started training seven years ago,
It took nearly three years, and some cost, to find shoes that matched his advice and met my other needs.
Foe some years now I relish the opportunity, when training, to walk through streams in my way knowing the heat from my feet will "push" the moisture through the open weave top of my shoe in less than 10 minutes.
As we all seem to have different physiology, what is fine for me may not be useful to you.
When on el camino I am more circumspect about wading through water. This because I do not expect to find easy to use clothes washing facilties like I have at home after a training walk. And because I wish to carry "goop" in minimal quantities and within the overall maximum weight limit I wish to tote.
@mishlove , I hope you find a footwear system that works for you and say kia kaha (take care, be strong, get going)
No such thing as waterproof shoes unless you use rubber boots. Walk in rain all day and every shoe gets wet, outside and inside, from rain and sweat. Any natural materials (ie. leather) take forever to dry. Go for an all-synthetic trainer. Or sandals like in the above post.I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
I'm curious. What is being marketed and why?
I stopped wearing my trail running shoes after about the first week on the Camino del Norte last summer, and switched to my Merrell sandals and socks. My feet felt so much better than in my previous two Caminos when I wore shoes. And they were awesome in the rain and mud. After walking through mud I was often able to find a clean stream to dunk my feet into to rinse off my sandals. I will bring only sandals on my next Camino.In 2014 I left my hiking shoes at an albergue on the 3rd or 4th day and didn't want to go back the few hours to get them. I had Chaco sandals which I intended to wear some during the trip but hadn't intended to use them the entire way. I wore thick wool socks and my Chacos the rest of the camino and it rained solid for days. My feet got soaked but in sandals there wasn't anything to rub against and took very little time to dry out.
I didn't have a single blister the entire camino. I've hiked extensively in them ever since and only had one blister in all that time.
Whenever anyone suggests this approach you can read from the responses how hesitant people are to the idea of hiking in sandals but I'm here to tell you and from 3 others I personally know who've finished the Camino in Chacos without blisters it works!!
So I'm in the non-waterproof camp
Interesting. I plan to take waterproof socks next time. I'll see if they affect me the same way.I tried water proof socks but my feet were wet from sweat. Left them after the first day of hard rains.
The tops are so open, wouldn't rain just run down into the boot?I stumbled on these on Amazon. Has anyone tried something like this?? https://amzn.to/2t32eDy Looks interesting to me.
Have a look at outdoors blogs and, especially, on YouTube, there are way too many Youtubers with several hundred thousand followers who have the most interesting theories which provide the "right" solution for all. It doesn't matter if those solutions look illogical or against common sense or very limited to a very specific set of circumstances, they are popular and "universal" because it is made to believe that they come form an expert source. Those solutions, more often than not, work with some new mainstream revolutionary product which the Youtuber directly or indirectly endorses.
I'm not judging those marketing strategies, Youtubers can make few money form clicks, Ads campaigns and have stuff for free and the societies which produce this or that item get almost free visibility, create the "need" to buy their products and therefore a new trend.
In all of this I just find a bit disheartening that some people take those "new solutions" as inconfutable truth, even discarding previous good habits, without realizing that we are all different, we do and like things differently and the "single way of thinking" is more profitable form the sellers than from the buyers.
You could make sure that if you wear pants -- rain or regular -- that the bottoms cover the top of the booties.The tops are so open, wouldn't rain just run down into the boot?
I disagree that YouTube is driving a change in footwear strategies. Nor do I see YouTube as convincing evidence of some conspiratorial marketing ploy. Nor do I even agree that your examples of YouTube is even within the commonly understood realm of what is considered marketing.
Marketing is a method for a specific business, product provider, or service to drive consumers to purchase their product. What you are describing is more akin to 'hoping onto the bandwagon'.
There has not been a huge and sudden shift in footwear strategies for backpacking. There has been an evolution of technology and gear and clothing and foods which have allowed strategies and thinking to change about what is available to wear and use on the trail. Backpacking and climbing gear has become far lighter in weight with more durable materials and more comfortable usability even from years ago. And it is a large chasm of difference from from a decade ago. A geologic era from those things from 15 and 20 years ago.
What I used to carry in the 1960's on a 14 day backpacking trip would weigh in the neighborhood of 65 pounds. That same exact inventory of gear and food today weighs in at 24 pounds to do the same exact job as in the '60s. The bandwagon didn't drive the shift away from the old and into the new, it was the actual fact that better and lighter gear and consumables made backpacking more fun with less agony.
Wool socks never were seen as "the enemy" and something to be avoided. There WAS marketing by companies, like Wigwam, in the 70s who did hype high content synthetic blend socks. But wool socks were still a favored material to wear, and synthetics and silk socks were more touted as a 'liner' sock. Wool was always seen back then as a material that would keep you warm if it got wet.
What HAS been the big shift for wool was the introduction of less scratchy and itchy wools, like Merino. Merino does get marketed by its makers for it superior 'wearability' compared to other wools. And Smartwool and Darn Tough (as two among several) have been marketing Merino wool socks as a superior material in a variety of areas. And word of mouth recommendations have also contributed to that popularity as real world use actually matched most of the marketing hype. Not to mention the fabulous warranties.
Footwear
I cannot resist - you replaced a metal mug with a metal mug that you replaced with an even lighter metal mug?I replaced my metal mug with an aluminum one and then with a titanium one, the lighter the better.
On the other hand, a pair of modern non waterproof shoes don't do the same thing that waterproof ones do.
I was born in the 70s so I can't talk about that decade, but in the 80s and 90s when I first got interested in the outdoors the only ones who wore wool on the mountains were old men. The youngsters avoided it at all cost in favor of more modern, synthetic, lighter fabric, as you wrote above "to make backpacking more fun with less agony". Of course I'm not referring just to socks, but to all wool clothing.
What I'm trying to say is that improvements have been done in all materials, but a modern sock perform better than a humble sock from 20 years ago, not differently. Comparing waterproof shoes to non waterproof ones is like comparing apples to oranges, there are no facts to determine which one is better, only opinions.
... . . . , but it seems that waterproof vs. non waterproof it's becoming an ideology.
What the thru-hikers do is of very little interest to me, I never had the problems you mentioned above from sweating, but I've been very miserable every time I got my feet wet from water even with open toes sandals on. For me walking is a pleasure, not a competition, not a training, not a performance to post on socials, I don't follow blindly the latest trends of minimal, lightest, whatever backpacking if I'm not comfortable doing it. If somethings works for me I would keep on using it without looking compulsively to change it just for the sake of it, to be modern at all cost or to conform to the general consensus among the thru-hikers.
What I don't like is the concept of "the best" of something, I thing that everything has its place. It seems like the technical data you mentioned have the pretense to be "universal", but the diversity of environments, people and habits make them only well informed suggestions. For me and for my way of enjoying the outdoors, one solution fits all doesn't work well.
I cannot resist - you replaced a metal mug with a metal mug that you replaced with an even lighter metal mug?
And you still have a metal mug? I must admit that I have moved on to a collapsible neoprene mug when space in important. I have one that is the same weight as my titanium mug, very slightly bigger in capacity, but only about 40% of the volume collapsed.
I cannot resist - you replaced a metal mug with a metal mug that you replaced with an even lighter metal mug?
And you still have a metal mug? I must admit that I have moved on to a collapsible neoprene mug when space in important. I have one that is the same weight as my titanium mug, very slightly bigger in capacity, but only about 40% of the volume collapsed.
They do the same exact function
A lot of folks turned to synthetics
I disagree with the apples/oranges conclusion.
I actually see it the other way around
While not of interest to you for your own reasons
I very much agree that the concept of what is 'best' is fraught with limitations and uselessness.
It just the definition that it's different. One claims to be WP the other doesn't, like a nylon poncho vs. a cotton one.
When I was younger I used to go fishing and when standing in the water I used rubber boots or waders. It never crossed my mind to use Goretext boots even in shallow water. For me WP trekking footwear need only to deflect (with the design) water which goes on it from top and bottom and the membrane needs to block the water that may get trough. If I need to cross a stream I rather do it with sandals than relying on WP boots, especially because water can get in from the top.
I don't know what claims make the firms which make WP footwear, but if they claim something which is not true they should be accused of false advertisement. If, on the other hand, the water intrusion come from poor manufacturing some customer association should take a stand. To sum it up, I trust more in my judgment than in the product characteristic, if a rope holds up to, let's say, 10Kg I would load it no more than 8Kg just to be on the safe side.
Regarding the sweating, it all goes down to the quantity of it. As I said before I don't sweat much on my feet, but heavily on my back, maybe for some people might be different. But I find difficult to imagine that the sweat from the inside is as much as the water that can get if from heavy rain.
I never said wool would perform poorly, it was just the perception that synthetic meant modernity for many, so everything used by old guys was to be avoided.
Again it's a matter of definition one has something the other hasn't, It's not a matter of traction, protection and so on, one should repel water the other it's not supposed to do so. Like a straw hat vs. a cotton waxed hat, they both provide protection from the sun, but I'd never use the latter one in the desert, nor the first one under a heavy shower.
Truth to be told, non WP leather boots covered in wax are still my favourite.
We are on the same page on this. The Camino it's not a strenuous Alpine walk, flexibility is good. In the previous posts I got the impression that your opinions were more black and white, that why I talk about ideology. I do apologize.
Don't get me wrong on this. I admire and envy thru-hikers a lot, I always wanted to do the AT, but because of the cost and the touristic visa time limit I probably would never be able to hike it. What I meant is that the conditions of an American thru-hike are very differrent from the ones I had and will be able to experience. I don't think the Camino or any the other devotional walks in EU can be compared with a US thru-hike. Nor they can be compared in term of environment to the Italian thru-hikes or even to the European E1. In none of this you will walk from the desert to the mountains, for example, on Grande Traversata delle Alpi (GTA) you gonna be on the mountaing from the start to the end and so in many others. I agree with your point overall, but I think it's a bit overkill using thru-hikers gear for the Camino.
This is my point, everything has it's place and time. I won't hike on Scottish highlands without WP boots (in any season actually) and I'd never use WP shoes in 40°C heat of Italian low lands. Since hot weather is heavier on me than cold/wet one I tend to do my hikes when there's. a likelihood of rain, when grass is wet and when mud puddles are present, so WP footwear for me is generally more suited. The same can be said for the Camino, it all goes down to the season, to the road taken and to personal preferences/habits/characteristics.
Galoshes*! How splendidly Victorian - conjures up visions of my (then) 3 year old Philippa "dancing" in puddles.I stumbled on these on Amazon. Has anyone tried something like this?? https://amzn.to/2t32eDy Looks interesting to me.
I am firmly on the side of "not-waterproof"--because that is what works for my feet.
Blisters have 3 friends: heat, moisture, and friction.
My feet sweat like the dickens--even in snowshoeing weather. "Waterproof" is just enough to retain every drop of foot sweat. My only blisters in some 350 days of Camino walking was a day thru tall French wet grass. My usual protocol for wet feet is to stop, dry my feet, and put on fresh silk liners and wool socks. I was tired and lazy that day and got to spend a layover day healing.
My solution to friction and moisture is BagBalm as my 'goop'; it is not as water soluble as Vaseline so lasts longer--and if it is good enough for cows teats, it is good enough for my feet. I apply morning and evening.
My alternate footwear is an old pair of Merrill sandals--they have Vibram soles to protect me from rocks and road heat, and even with bad ankles, I can do 10km on the easier Camino days before weak ankles are a limitation. And they give my feet a chance to dry--I use them for evening shoes while my boots and socks are drying (yes, old newsprint in the shoes) (yes, a backup pair of insoles) (yes, double socks to stop friction)
DAVEBUGG initial post says just about everything you need to know about footwear and foot care--read it carefully--TWICE.
I do know that wet feet generally means blisters.
At a minimum copper is antibacterial https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-anti-fatigue-copper-compression-socks-really-work/I get them at Marks workwear here in Canada. I started with Tommy Copper products and then found these. Copper is thought to have many health benefits.
I'm going to MEC tonight (Toronto)...there is one close by. Is there a brand name?I get them at Marks workwear here in Canada. I started with Tommy Copper products and then found these. Copper is thought to have many health benefits.
I am fond of waterproof shoes. I have used Columbia waterproof shoes happily n previous pilgrimages, and will continue to do so.I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
Do folks know how much feet sweat? Truly waterproof shoes would have your feet swimming in perspiration after a couple hours. That leaves water-resistant shoes, which mean rain and dew just take a little longer to seep through, but takes forever for the shoes to dry out. I've done several long-distance hikes in simple trainers (non-Gortex, non-waterproof, non-water resistant). The time spent in rain is usually a fraction of non-wet conditions. There is no fool-proof solution. Next long-distance hike is in Keen sandals, take off the socks when it starts raining. The sandals dry in an hour.I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
I wear boots for long-distance walking and am very happy with the orthotics that I wear in them. But I am less happy with the disappearance of the local outdoor services store that waterproofed my boots for my last camino and is no longer in its previous location. The boots were, apparently, soaked twice in a waterproofing liquid, and came back to me much darker in colour than when I brought them in. I walked the Madrid at the beginning of that year's pilgrimage, in heat and extreme dryness. But my feet were fine. My waterproofed boots came into their own on the Invierno, later in my pilgrimage, where it rained almost non-stop. I wore rain pants which came down over the tops of my boots. And my feet were dry.
The product that I have used on my leather hiking boots during winter, and on my non-technical climbing boots is a product called Sno Seal. It is a beeswax based waterproofing that has been around for many, many decades, and I am long time fan of the product. The larger quantities come in various sized cans. Although it is not recommended on suede leathers, that is due to only one reason - - Sno Seal will darken the leather more so than on a top grain leather smooth finish and affect the visual look of the suede's 'nap'. Functionally, it works well on suede.Thanks, @davebugg. My boots are Timberland, with a suede rather than a smooth leather leather finish. I bought some Nikwax Fabric and Leather Proof and tried to follow the instructions, damping the boots, then applying the liquid fairly generously. I have done this twice, so far. It seemed hard to get it out of the tin and I did not seem to be applying as much as I wished. The boots are not nearly as darkened by the process as were those which I got done in the shop. Any suggestions would be much welcomed.
Mary Louise
@davebuggThe product that I have used on my leather hiking boots during winter, and on my non-technical climbing boots is a product called Sno Seal. It is a beeswax based waterproofing that has been around for many, many decades, and I am long time fan of the product. The larger quantities come in various sized cans. Although it is not recommended on suede leathers, that is due to only one reason - - Sno Seal will darken the leather more so than on a top grain leather smooth finish and affect the visual look of the suede's 'nap'. Functionally, it works well on suede.
There are methods for applying that are not in the directions that increase the amount of Sno Seal that is absorbed into the leather. It doesn't make it more effective, but it increases the length of time between applications.
If you decide that you want to try it out and want specific tips, feel free to PM me.
@davebugg
Sno Seal was so much a part of my early years as a mountain walker that it brings back multiple memories of caring for my very first pair of mountain boots and wearing them for backcountry walks. I have not seen it in years and cannot find it on the websites of Calgary outdoor stores, but it is available on Amazon. I hate having to order on Amazon, as it involves having to stay home all the time until the item is delivered. Bad things happen to my parcels if I do not wait in the house for their arrival. But it is certainly a resource when something is not available locally. I shall make one more try online to find it locally, then send off an order to Amazon. Thanks for the suggestion.
Hi Albertagirl, I'm an original Alberta girl myself.I have spent some time looking into this, and find that the cost of Sno Seal ordered through Amazon is prohibitive in Canada. In addition, the lowest price offered ($37.50 Can for two small tubes) would be scheduled to arrive the day before my flight to Spain on Sept. 9. I cannot find it for sale anywhere here. However, your suggestion of Sno Seal has stirred up many vivid memories from my mountain-walking past, for which I thank you. I think that I shall add another couple of layers of the Nikwax waterproofing and accept that as what I can do before this trip.
@SheeshHi Albertagirl, I'm an original Alberta girl myself.
You may be able to get Sno Seal from Gregg Distributors Industrial Supply; their site lists the product but no prices, or maybe my strict firewall is blocking the info, it's definitely flagging something on the website. Anyhoo, worth a phone call, looks like there are two locations in Calgary. Good luck.
Try sandals. I just walked from Gibraltar to Muxía in a pair of Keen Newport H2 sandals. Never hot and wet sweaty. Waterproof will just leave feet hot and wet from sweat all the time.I need to get the most out of my feet, as we all do, but they do get hot and bothered quite quickly. I have worn both Salomon and Keen waterproof boots/shoes successfully, but have "heard" that may be non-waterproof may be better. I am not concerned with wet shoes, wet socks, drying out or drying off, just to keep my feet as happy as I can. Happy feet, Happy me.
PS: Have tried a multitude of socks, of the worst and best kind, with much of the same result.
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