Ivan Shannon
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- "2016"
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Hello fellow pilgrims,
I wondering what is view on frameless packs. I am looking at least 500g saving in weight between two packs and possibly up to 1kg saving because I am concerned that I will not get everything into a 31L pack.
Has anyone previous used a frameless pack while walking from St. Jean?
I not leaving for six weeks and have time to adjust pack size and overall weight. Suppose I am looking for that sweet spot between light weight and comfort.
Thanks
Roland, can you please explain the carbofibre rods?Never used a framed pack. I consider framed packs with 65-90l for expeditions in rough terrain and high mountains, in my opinion: hiking-packs should be frameless.
For ease of packing and the comfort of easy access I installed a carbonfiber-rod with two slings, so my pack will not collapse. Few grams more for comfort.
Easy: bought a carbonfibre-rod in the model-shop (2m, 1,5mm thick), sewed 2 loops (works also with sewed in triangles) in the front-corners of the pack and a third one (really had to look now) on the middle of the back-seam of the pack.Roland, can you please explain the carbofibre rods?
As far as the advisability of using a frameless backpack, it depends on what the weight of your load is inside of the pack. Frameless backpacks are best used for loads that weigh under 16 pounds/ 7 Kg. Up to that weight level, a quality frameless backpack can still effectively transfer the weight to the hipbelt.
I have gear tested backpacks from manufacturers that claim carrying capacities up to 25 pounds/11.3 Kg, but at that load range, the backpack will slump down due to a lack of internal frame or stays, making the hipbelt mostly ineffectual in its traditional role. So, yes, those backpacks can technically carry 11 Kg or more, but probably not as comfortably as you'd prefer.
So if your load is under 7 Kg, there are some very good frameless packs (not all frameless packs are created equal, though). If above, it is better to look at losing the 500g weight by trimming back here and there on the weight of the gear and clothing, and staying with a backpack that has a more rigid frame structure.
I tried once and switched back to the one with frames. The pack was lighter but felt heavier and was not comfortable to me.Hello fellow pilgrims,
I wondering what is view on frameless packs. I am looking at least 500g saving in weight between two packs and possibly up to 1kg saving because I am concerned that I will not get everything into a 31L pack.
Has anyone previous used a frameless pack while walking from St. Jean?
I not leaving for six weeks and have time to adjust pack size and overall weight. Suppose I am looking for that sweet spot between light weight and comfort.
Thanks
try Aarn Packs from New Zealand, small sacks in front (counterbalance) for H2o & essentials then a lightweight pack in back for the rest= great weight distribution. https://www.aarnpacks.com/ Buen Camino! R&M~Hello fellow pilgrims,
I wondering what is view on frameless packs. I am looking at least 500g saving in weight between two packs and possibly up to 1kg saving because I am concerned that I will not get everything into a 31L pack.
Has anyone previous used a frameless pack while walking from St. Jean?
I not leaving for six weeks and have time to adjust pack size and overall weight. Suppose I am looking for that sweet spot between light weight and comfort.
Thanks
I wouldn't say being a minimalist gear wise on the Camino is stupid. It just makes sense for those looking to travel the lightest, which does make walking long distances easier. A five pound pack in any style pack is going to be easier and more comfortable to carry than a ten pound pack in any style pack. Kinda scientific lol.Packs like most things are personal preferences. I used on for the Caminho Portuguese when I tried stupid minimalist. Never to be repeated. My choice will always be a pack with a frame. Absolute low weight is to ease the load on the legs feet and body, but is pointless if comfort suffers and in turn counteracts the weight saving through poor posture, fatigue caused by discomfort, or bad moods and swearing because your gear functionality was compromised.
I would not be so certain about that. The science behind is how the mass is distributed and what mechanical leverage it creates. I believe @davebugg has explained this elsewhere. So, the suspension plays a central role here.A five pound pack in any style pack is going to be easier and more comfortable to carry than a ten pound pack in any style pack.
If I pick up a five pound rock and see how long I can hold it out with one hand, and do the same with a ten pound rock, I will 100% of the time be able to hold the five pound rock longer.I would not be so certain about that. The science behind is how the mass is distributed and what mechanical leverage it creates. I believe @davebugg has explained this elsewhere. So, the suspension plays a central role here.
I can confirm that equally loaded Atmos (“antigravity” suspension) is more convenient to carry than an Exos (ordinary suspension), even though the former is heavier.
Ever heard of mechanical advantage and levers? The properly designed pack suspension is meant to minimize the force created by them. Speaking about those rocks, I bet one will be able to keep longer ten pound rock with a flexed hand close to the body than five pond one in extended hand. So, those “antigravity” suspensions neither delete packs mass nor the gravity force, simply they aim to minimize the total energy expenditure to create a force to keep it steady on the back from the subject carrying it.End of science lesson kids, lol.
Thank you for your response, I am coming to the opinion that using a frameless pack is only an option if the overall weight is low, 6-7Kg, heaver weight need more structure.I have been using the frameless 32L OMM (Original Mountain Marathon) Classic for many years. It weighs about 600g empty and around 6kg fully packed. I usually walk between May and September so only need lightweight clothing. I am 74 years old, weigh 57kg and have osteoporosis, worse in the spine, so I never carry heavier weights. https://theomm.com/product/classic-32-2/
You're probably right. The recommended weight for the OMM is 9kg. I don't think I could carry 9kg, nor would I need to even if I was younger and stronger! The Camino isnt a wilderness trail and all one needs is a change of clothing, raingear, toiletries, medication and 1 - 1.5lt of water. The villages are mostly not more than 10km apart, the road is never far from the path, and even small places have a cafe-bar.Thank you for your response, I am coming to the opinion that using a frameless pack is only an option if the overall weight is low, 6-7Kg, heaver weight need more structure.
Good post. My pack has pockets for water bottles but they are pretty unreachable. I like the idea of Aarn, wonder if there are issues just using a water bottle pocket strapped to shoulder strap. Something like thistry Aarn Packs from New Zealand, small sacks in front (counterbalance) for H2o & essentials then a lightweight pack in back for the rest= great weight distribution. https://www.aarnpacks.com/ Buen Camino! R&M~
There are all kinds of ways to carry water. Just try out several and see what works for you!Good post. My pack has pockets for water bottles but they are pretty unreachable. I like the idea of Aarn, wonder if there are issues just using a water bottle pocket strapped to shoulder strap. Something like this
Elastic Top Water Bottle Holder for a Backpack - Etsy
This Camping item by GearBagsandMorebyCP has 1063 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Fillmore, IN. Listed on Oct 1, 2023www.etsy.com
Thanks, I have enough kit generally for two people, walked with my daughter before COVID from Porto so I will pack both backpacks and test weight distribution against less weight.I will echo what many have said..... we all have personal preferences. I have walked with the following packs:
Gregory (Jade and the older version)
Osprey (Exos and Talon (mens)
Gossamer Gear (frameless)
Aarn
I didn't like the Aarn, I was already carrying enough weight on my chestThe Gossamer Gear without a frame felt like my junk was going to fall out the bottom. It was in the cold spring so I needed a lot more gear than a summer Camino. For me the frame helps distribute the weight and the weight saving is minimal. In any event, I had wonderful Camino's whatever pack I was carrying. Some just a little more comfortable than others
Thanks, I have enough kit generally for two people, walked with my daughter before COVID from Porto so I will pack both backpacks and test weight distribution against less weight.
Ivan
we are currently using 1 liter collapsible bottles in our Aarn packs, they get lighter as you go since your drinking the weight in water, the Platypus softbottle collapsible 1.0 Liter bottles from Amazon ($17.99) they work nicely in the front Aarn front packs.There are all kinds of ways to carry water. Just try out several and see what works for you!
There are all kinds of ways to carry water. Just try out several and see what works for you!
I agree re Go lite race ,used on every Camino trip ,best rucksack ive ever owned ,fits me perfectly weighs nothing (almost) when empty only problem is you have to pack everything in drybags as in no way waterproof . Sadly i dont think they make them anymore i still search for them on ebay as im afraid that mine will eventually fail .I have done a couple of late winter caminos using a Golite Race rucksack. It weighs about 800g and is around 42l. It's frameless, but what I do is pack my sleeping bag and down blanket into a good quality drybag and sit on it to expel the air and then seal the drybag. This forms a fairly stiff pad which sits against my back and other stuff is packed around it. This makes the rucksack "stand up" when resting on the ground but body forming and comfortable whilst wearing.
Talons are great packs indeed, still their Airscape suspension uses an injection-molded frame.. Nevertheless they are lighter than corresponding Stratos with Airspeed trampoline suspension and metal frame. Kind of 40l/kg vs 30l/kg.I’m an Osprey guy & have numerous packs from them. My fav line of theirs is the Talon(Tempest for women) series. They have 22, 26, 30, 33 & 36L versions that don’t have a frame. Their largest pack the 44 does. But the others don’t. Super light & comfy, yet fully featured packs. I love them for long hikes & walks. Check them out at your local outdoor store.
@Susan Peacock How did the Osprey Exos work for you? I've tried many (in store and also at home on hikes). Today I tried the Osprey Exos, the first men's I've tried, and it surprised me by being more comfortable than about 10 others I've tried (with 10 lbs in it though without having walked in it). (I actually discover that the farther-apart straps of the "men's" suits me better. I've got to walk a bit with it, but my concern is that it doesn't seem to have a whole lot of stuff to clip on or hang off of on the front... How did that work for you?I will echo what many have said..... we all have personal preferences. I have walked with the following packs:
Gregory (Jade and the older version)
Osprey (Exos and Talon (mens)
Gossamer Gear (frameless)
Aarn
I didn't like the Aarn, I was already carrying enough weight on my chestThe Gossamer Gear without a frame felt like my junk was going to fall out the bottom. It was in the cold spring so I needed a lot more gear than a summer Camino. For me the frame helps distribute the weight and the weight saving is minimal. In any event, I had wonderful Camino's whatever pack I was carrying. Some just a little more comfortable than others
I believe you can carry all you need for your Camino in a 31L pack. You can carry more in a framed backpack. With a framed pack the weight is equally distributed on your back.Hello fellow pilgrims,
I wondering what is view on frameless packs. I am looking at least 500g saving in weight between two packs and possibly up to 1kg saving because I am concerned that I will not get everything into a 31L pack.
Has anyone previous used a frameless pack while walking from St. Jean?
I not leaving for six weeks and have time to adjust pack size and overall weight. Suppose I am looking for that sweet spot between light weight and comfort.
Thanks
It would be useful to have some context information here. For a start, what time of year did you walk, how tall are you and how much do you weigh, are you cold/heat tolerant or relatively normal, are you able afford more expensive lightweight clothing and equipment or have a tighter budget that doesn't permit that, and have you reached the age where you need to carry additional medical supplies or equipment?I believe you can carry all you need for your Camino in a 31L pack. You can carry more in a framed backpack.
One of the major reasons for a frame is to allow better weight transfer to the hips. Frameless packs with a hip belt will do that too, but in my experience, it is less effective for larger packs. For smaller packs, even those around 30-40 li, it is perhaps less important, and frameless designs mostly work well. That said, I have one 30 li frameless back that doesn't transfer weight at all well. The back is too flexible, and the bag sags, pulling down on my shoulders rather than sitting on my hips. It doesn't get used very often.With a framed pack the weight is equally distributed on your back.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?