Gay Saint's Pilgrimage 2014

[richardnoble]

After walking across America in 2011/2012 on my American spiritual quest, I have decided to take on the next country in the coming year. My heart is moved at shedding my own fears of religion and walk the Rainbow flag the full length of the Santiago. I hope others will join me. They didn't want to walk across America. That was 2700 miles. Perhaps this is more doable to my people. :roll:

 

[richardnoble]

Re: Gay Pilgrimage 2014

Edited to the Gay Saint's Pilgrimage

 

[Jakenmarie]

Gay Pilgrimage 2014

I'm going later this year and everything I've read and heard about this walk is that it about self. I have no judgements about gay people and hope I never grow to the point that I ever generalize anyone or any group. That being said, it would seem to me that carrying any flag, agenda, opinion, or whatever you want to fill the blank in with, will only invite confrontation that will take away from the experience.
I'm sure you're prepared for this, and the (edited) who will confront you as well; I just hope I'm nowhere around.
Just my very unenlightened opinion.

 

[Tincatinker]

Re: Gay Pilgrimage 2014

Richard,

Carry your flag with pride. Though I hope that that is why you carry it, and that you walk the Camino because it is the Camino and not somewhere to wave a flag.

 

[David]

Re: Gay Pilgrimage 2014

Hi Richard - yours is an interesting quest ... but isn't it two? spiritual and political? (I'm assuming the rainbow agenda is a political agenda).

Personally (I cannot speak for anyone else) I look forward to the time that there are no longer any feminists, that even the concept of feminism becomes merely an interesting anecdote in history - of course there would finally have to be equality for that to happen.
I feel the same about racism ...
I feel the same about homosexuality ...

perhaps one day humans will discover that there are only humans on this planet .. until then, well, prepare the way - carry your flag .. and if you are Christian why not make a rainbow flag with a large cross in one corner?
... I think it unlikely, but if you are confronted by phobic Christians please do explain to them that if, for some reason, they find it a problem with you being gay then they should really go and talk to all those straight Christian couples who keep having gay babies .... :wink:

Only humans on this planet Richard, only humans.

Buen Camino pilgrim, buen Camino.

 

[richardnoble]

Re: Gay Pilgrimage 2014

During my walking the Rainbow flag across America, 3 times as in a miracle, I was able to hold the staff with the flag on it to the sky, pray for rain to stop and rainbows to appear. It never failed me. The Native American Indian Paiutes named me Poo'e'ta'gwena (Rainbow). My tremendous fear of being murdered while walking a Rainbow flag across the United States all by myself was overcome with faith and courage, prayers and a constant giving of thanks.
The Christians and Catholics, Muslims and Jew alike, have a hard time reconciling gay men and their rainbow flags with God and his son, Jesus.
The world has always tried to separate Gays and God. It cannot be done.
My quest is pure and simple. I will show the world and all the people, as I did in America and in India, a gay man with a Rainbow flag, has sat at the right hand of God and has found his grace.
My years of crying to be a saint are over. I now act. It's only in demonstration of my innate gay life, with it, oneness with God, will the Church perhaps stop it's horrible cruelty and judgment of gay people. It must stop. It matters not how I love but that I love, something the Church has a problem understanding.
For anyone to ever understand that gayness and saints go hand in hand in some cases, sacrifices have to be made. I make no political statement here, I make a religious one. At some time in the future, the Church will make a gay saint.
I like the cross idea too. I mean, Jesus sacrificed for all of us. Good suggestion.

 

[PadreTeeJay]

Richard, I won't be able to join you next year, but know that you will be in my prayers as I begin my Camino next week. Blessings... T.J.

 

[richardnoble]

Blessings to you on your journey my friend. Very exciting. Look for God. He's everywhere. :roll:

 

[William Marques]

I am curious who or what is this gay saint? If it is a self appointed title perhaps you will get more flack than you would if you did not use that name.

 

[CaminoGen]

Dear, you're not the first gay pilgrim but you are the first self-appointed one. Believe me when I say that the gay part will not pose any problem. The self-aggrandizing and the preaching will, though.

 

[Sojourner47]

How about a heterosexual pilgrimage??
Do we really need this kind of thing on the camino??
As with the first respondent, I hope I'm not there when it happens. :mrgreen:

 

[SYates]

I am a Christian and a straight ally, but I do have a problem with fundamentalists of any shape or color. Just be careful that by walking for equal rights in the Church(es), something I full-heartly agree with, you don't become a "gay fundamentalist" ;-) Buen Camino!

 

[David]

Concur!

Richard, I think your self-proclaimed saint position has many of us a little concerned. You know, throughout history no saint ever proclaimed him/herself a saint ... tends to be a posthumous thing.

Humility first now :wink:

Buen Camino.

 

[skilsaw]

Richard,
I believe your intentions are good, but you have missed what I think is the whole point of pilgrimage. To me, it is a private, inward looking practice. People of all creeds and colours have made their way to Santiago. It is largely a peaceful journey because people are reserved, not flaunting their persuasion or demanding to be recognized. On the other hand, you will meet many pilgrims and have the opportunity to share, one on one, your motivation. Listening is at least half of this experience. It is only by listening that you will receive what the Camino has to offer.

If it isn't clear to you yet, I think you have offended people by claiming sainthood. And so, the Camino has already started to work its miracle in your life. I hope that you are able to receive it.

Peace be with you.
David, Victoria, Canada.

 

[SabsP]

Sometimes I love reading Wikipedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint

 

[SYates]

Sometimes I love reading Wikipedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint

From that article "The original Christian usage referred to any believer who is "in Christ" and in whom Christ dwells, whether in heaven or in earth." Also some Bible translations use "saint/s" to translate the Greek word "agios", like in "Greetings to Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them."

Sorry for getting all theologically ;-) SY

 

[richardnoble]

Jesus had no problem speaking with his disciples about who he was. He knew. So do I.
I will publically proclaim it.
See, I am gay and I am always with God.
So are straight people - but do they proclaim it?
The biggest sin of our time is that division between people and God. It actually does not exist.
If our gay kids will stop being taught they are separate from God, the suicide rate would cease.
When we correct that, the world will have peace.

See, we are NOT sinners. We ARE divine, each and everyone of us.
It's the belief that we are sinners, which creates evil in the world.

It's time to change the thoughts of the seven religions. This is happening finally as promised; this is the truth, the way and the light.

 

[SYates]

...

It's the belief that we are sinners, which creates evil in the world.

...

In my book it is the belief that one person is better than another person (for whatever reasons) that is responsible for a lot of evil in our lives. Have you actually read the contributions of others to this thread? Do you believe yourself to be better than others? SY

 

[SabsP]

Some will publically proclaim. Others will silently act in kindness.

 

[David]

Thinking about the 'saint' title - we are responding from the Roman Catholic view of saints - particularly holy individuals who are recognised in their lifetimes and then venerated after their deaths and raised to that title -
- but although a common term for members in the very early church, which died out a long time ago, there are certain non-conformist churches today, such as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(commonly known as Mormons) whose members are all titled 'saints' - so, Richard, is that what you mean when you name yourself a 'saint' ? Are you a Lattter Day?

If so I think there is no conflict at all :|

 

[SYates]

...- we are responding from the Roman Catholic view of saints...

Nops, I am not, I am an Anglican.

... but although a common term for members in the very early church, which died out a long time ago,

... I hope not ;-)

there are certain non-conformist churches today, such as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(commonly known as Mormons) whose members are all titled 'saints' - so, Richard, is that what you mean when you name yourself a 'saint' ? Are you a Lattter Day?...

Also other protestant Churches don't have a problem with the word "saint" as a term to describe all Christians.

BTW But Saint with a Capital S is a completely different kettle of fish ;-) SY

PS Not all Christian Churches are anti-LGBT, have a look here, you might be up for a surprise: http://www.gaychurch.org/

 

[Tincatinker]

Let he or she who is without sin wave the first flag.

Richard I accuse you of presumption and I believe that you have not looked closely and with your heart at what the Camino is and what it means to so many of us. If you really wish to challenge the Church (capitalisation deliberate) may I humbly suggest that you do that in Rome, Canterbury or even Mecca. Following your trek across the USA you may find the Camino a little dull. I would think your chances of getting murdered because of a flag anywhere on the Camino as remote, as in interstellar remote. Spain and indeed most of Europe has long adopted legislation that recognise LGBT people as equal citizens under the law. Social attitudes may change more slowly than many of us might wish but they change.

Come, walk the Camino, engage with your fellow pilgrims and with the Spanish people who do so much to sustain them. Just don't wave a flag at them in hope of a row or to prove a point that to most would be pointless.

Carry your flag with pride - but not as a weapon.

 

[grayland]

I am afraid this thread is across the line on many levels..including Forum Rule number 1:

1) Posts about your personal political or religious beliefs are not allowed.

The thread is locked.