Prentiss Riddle
Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Português and/or Francés in 2023
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I too am researching this possibility by utilizing Spain's Non-Lucrative Visa.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry to exploit USAmericans fears about the upcoming election.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry to exploit USAmericans' fears about the upcoming election.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
Blessings on your endeavorMy husband @jungleboy is Australian, and I am American. We moved to Portugal in 2017, and it was actually much easier than I thought it would be. After researching options in Spain, Italy and other European countries, we determined that Portugal would be the easiest.
We are on entrepreneur visas, so we cannot take jobs as employees in a company, but we can do our own freelance work online and offline. We just have to show that we have enough money in the bank to support ourselves each time we renew our residency permits.
From what I understand, SEF (the Portuguese immigration authority) is severely backlogged due to the pandemic. I've heard the earliest appointment slot available is in 2022.
But a lawyer would be able to tell you more about the current situation. Our immigration lawyer Ana has been very helpful. I would definitely recommend hiring a lawyer, it's been well worth the money. I can send you her contact details if you like.
As we know that was very unfortunate timing, the pandemic gripped the world and my dream turned to dust.
Sorry. The best I can do is to direct you to this training film for immigrants.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
I am moving to Spain just as soon as they will let me in! This has been about a 2 year process with much in-depth research. The very best information I have found is online and through the Spanish immigration websites or through Embassy websites. You can find “kits” for moving there, and step-by-step instruction through valid websites which offer immigration forms such as disclosures, pet immigration and vaccination records, A list of ports to have your belongings shipped through, etc. I have found a couple of step-by-step guides for obtaining a visa in the cleanest and most expedient way also, but most seem bogus. If you can’t find these yourself, let me know, and I will look up the exact sites for you.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
This is also the case for Australian citizens. I will be taxed by both countries despite the existence of a dual taxation treaty. Under current rates, I'd be taxed 32 cents in every dollar by the Aust Govt & then another approx 35 cents (€0.21 cents) by Spain...leaving a whopping 33 cents from every dollar of income from Aus (under the Non-Lucrative Visa, you are not allowed to earn in any income from Spain..hence the name!). I know you can get a taxation lawyer to help navigate the tax treaty but their fee would have to be weighed against potential tax savings. I haven't looked into the cost & I'm not wealthy either so at this early planning stage, I'll probably just bite the bullet as I'm initially only intending to live in Spain for a few years.Americans residing abroad have incredible tax problems. Not only do you have to pay taxes to your host country but you may have to pay US taxes as well. You may not have to pay much or anything to the US but the paperwork is supposed to be horrid. Your bank in the host country gets involved too and so many will not accept American customers. Some links to give you an introduction to the problem:
US Expat Taxes: Guide to Filing in 2024
US expats are required to file federal tax returns. However, most expats can reduce their tax bills. Here’s what you need to know about the US expat tax.www.greenbacktaxservices.com
U.S. citizens and resident aliens abroad | Internal Revenue Service
Find tax filing and reporting information for U.S. citizens or resident aliens who reside and earn income overseas.www.irs.gov
Sorry. The best I can do is to direct you to this training film for immigrants.
I am an American who is a resident of South Africa and the paperwork is not that daunting. You do need to pay local taxes but you are only taxed in the US over an indexed amount. The tax form for the US is no more cumbersome than the other tax forms. If you are a retiree like I am there is only the cost of filing as I do not have enough income to trigger US tax.Americans residing abroad have incredible tax problems. Not only do you have to pay taxes to your host country but you may have to pay US taxes as well. You may not have to pay much or anything to the US but the paperwork is supposed to be horrid. Your bank in the host country gets involved too and so many will not accept American customers. Some links to give you an introduction to the problem:
US Expat Taxes: Guide to Filing in 2024
US expats are required to file federal tax returns. However, most expats can reduce their tax bills. Here’s what you need to know about the US expat tax.www.greenbacktaxservices.com
U.S. citizens and resident aliens abroad | Internal Revenue Service
Find tax filing and reporting information for U.S. citizens or resident aliens who reside and earn income overseas.www.irs.gov
If you don't mind sharing @CaminoforLife (or perhaps PM me?), did you do a 'trial run' as a resident in your chosen locality by renting for a period first? Or did you have the certainty to dive straight into purchasing your home? My plan is to rent on arrival & search for a place to buy once actually on the ground.Probably my very best resource has been my lawyer in Oviedo that I have “on retainer.” They specialize in assisting ex-pats in obtaining NIEs and opening bank accounts (trust me, this is not an easy process). They are also standing in as POA for my financial needs until I get there in person, and are handling all the legalities and clearances for my home purchase.
This is also the case for Australian citizens.
Yes...correct! I'm initially only planning to live in Spain for a few years so am not severing ties with Australia. If I eventually make a permanent move to Spain, then of course I'll structure everything differently.I am an Australian living overseas and I don’t file or pay tax in Australia as I’m a non-citizen for tax purposes. I guess the difference in your case is that you would still be earning income from Australia?
Hilarious!!!Sorry. The best I can do is to direct you to this training film for immigrants.
Look on youtube for 'A Place In The Sun'. It is a british tv show about finding homes in Spain. Prices range from £50,000 to ridiculous. They also have a web page that you can google. I watch and dream on a regular basis. They do Spain, Portugal, France, Crete and Florida. But mostly Spain. If you are looking for somewhere on a camino then not much going. Quite a few around Alicante and there is a camino that starts there but practically nothing on a camino. Sorry I cant give any comment on the legalities of it all. As an Irish citizen, there fore European citizen, freedom of travel makes it so much easier for me so have not delved into that side of it. However, since it does not appeal to my wife, it shall remain a dream lolDoes anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
I am a Canadian who retired in Barcelona just over six years ago. Trying to find information about the process and requirements when I was preparing for the move (with my husband) was difficult. At that time I relied heavily on blogs written by non-EU citizens for insights and helpful information as the entry requirements are quite similar for people coming from those countries. Since moving here, I have discovered that there are excellent Face Book groups providing a wealth in information for expats or people preparing to move to Spain or Portugal (as well as to many other countries). If you would like the names of specific Face Book groups that I have joined or would suggest as useful sources of information, feel free to send me a PM. Just as an aside, we are currently contemplating relocating to Portugal.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
As an expat living in Barcelona, I can relate to the content of this video. A friend shared it with me before I made the move just over six years ago and I had no idea of how true it was at that time!Sorry. The best I can do is to direct you to this training film for immigrants.
If you would like to send me a PM, I would be happy to share with you our experience of renting and purchasing a place to live in Barcelona.If you don't mind sharing @CaminoforLife (or perhaps PM me?), did you do a 'trial run' as a resident in your chosen locality by renting for a period first? Or did you have the certainty to dive straight into purchasing your home? My plan is to rent on arrival & search for a place to buy once actually on the ground.
I for one, would be really interested to know how you tackled this aspect.
Many thanks & best wishes...your new life is so close to fruition!
Thanks for the info about 'A Place in the Sun'...I've downloaded their buying guides even though I'm not from the UK.Look on youtube for 'A Place In The Sun'. It is a british tv show about finding homes in Spain. Prices range from £50,000 to ridiculous. They also have a web page that you can google. I watch and dream on a regular basis. They do Spain, Portugal, France, Crete and Florida. But mostly Spain. If you are looking for somewhere on a camino then not much going. Quite a few around Alicante and there is a camino that starts there but practically nothing on a camino. Sorry I cant give any comment on the legalities of it all. As an Irish citizen, there fore European citizen, freedom of travel makes it so much easier for me so have not delved into that side of it. However, since it does not appeal to my wife, it shall remain a dream lol
We have similar dreams, especially if the election doesn’t go “our” way. International Living is a nice magazine resourceDoes anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry.
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
There is an alternative to using PMs if information doesn't really belong in a thread but otherwise is okay to be public (and not prohibited by forum rules); you can post to the OP's profile posts area.Is it against the rules to post these resources openly?
Many of us are interested in the same info. It would save many duplicate PMs.
No.Is it against the rules to post these resources openly?
I agree but I think most of us responding to the thread are aware this is a Camino forum & it's not a Camino-related topic (although the Camino is possibly what has led us to seek these avenues) so we're 'treading lightly'. Also some people feel more comfortable (or for privacy) sharing their experiences on a one-to-one basis than to all & sundry. I hadn't voiced my dream to anyone until this thread but now I have, it feels like a step towards making it a reality. It is clearly a captivating topic (my cogs are whirring...Is it against the rules to post these resources openly?
Many of us are interested in the same info. It would save many duplicate PMs.
That must have been heartbreaking, Jennifer.
But at least you can use your experience to help - your post has a lot of information that will potentially be useful for others.
If you are intent on spending the rest of your life abroad, there is always the option of filing to renounce yourAmericans residing abroad have incredible tax problems. Not only do you have to pay taxes to your host country but you may have to pay US taxes as well. You may not have to pay much or anything to the US but the paperwork is supposed to be horrid. Your bank in the host country gets involved too and so many will not accept American customers. Some links to give you an introduction to the problem:
US Expat Taxes: Guide to Filing in 2024
US expats are required to file federal tax returns. However, most expats can reduce their tax bills. Here’s what you need to know about the US expat tax.www.greenbacktaxservices.com
U.S. citizens and resident aliens abroad | Internal Revenue Service
Find tax filing and reporting information for U.S. citizens or resident aliens who reside and earn income overseas.www.irs.gov
I neglected to add the obvious to my post...if you renounce your U.S. citizenship, you do not file U.S. tax returns.If you are intent on spending the rest of your life abroad, there is always the option of filing to renounce your
U.S. citizenship as thousands have done. But it's costly to do so. Then again, costly is relative.
I read that even if you renounce your US citizenship you're still required to file for 5 years.I neglected to add the obvious to my post...if you renounce your U.S. citizenship, you do not file U.S. tax returns.
Yes, but this only becomes an option once you have obtained citizenship from another country. I doubt anyone would willingly become a stateless person. I left the US in 1999 and have been living abroad ever since, but it was not until I obtained residency in Portugal in 2017 that I finally started down a pathway towards citizenship. I still have two more years to go before I can apply for Portuguese citizenship, and as soon I get that Portuguese passport I will be heading to the US embassy to renounce.If you are intent on spending the rest of your life abroad, there is always the option of filing to renounce your
U.S. citizenship as thousands have done. But it's costly to do so. Then again, costly is relative.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. You have to file for the tax year in which you renounce, but after that you're done.I read that even if you renounce your US citizenship you're still required to file for 5 years.
I second this recommendation. We're in the process of moving to Portugal (visa appointment is 10/29!) and the information on this website has been invaluable! Not only the posts themselves, but files that cover a wide range of topics, with information updated frequently.If you're interested in residency in Portugal, the best place to start is a Facebook group called Americans & FriendsPT. It covers every conceivable topic related to moving to Portugal.
When you renounce citizenship, don’t you also forfeit your social security, which is my main means of income.Yes, but this only becomes an option once you have obtained citizenship from another country. I doubt anyone would willingly become a stateless person. I left the US in 1999 and have been living abroad ever since, but it was not until I obtained residency in Portugal in 2017 that I finally started down a pathway towards citizenship. I still have two more years to go before I can apply for Portuguese citizenship, and as soon I get that Portuguese passport I will be heading to the US embassy to renounce.
Sorry. The best I can do is to direct you to this training film for immigrants.
I don't believe so, but since I've not paid much into SS in my lifetime, I doubt I'll get anything anyway, so I've never looked into it closely. The Facebook group "Renounce US Citizenship - Why and How" is a good place to find the answers to questions like this.When you renounce citizenship, don’t you also forfeit your social security, which is my main means of income.
For Australians, we must be established residents at the time of applying for eg, the aged pension. Once the pension has been granted, we have to maintain Aussie residency for two years then benefits become 'portable' allowing us to live permanently overseas & still receive the pension. This is the rule I feel may change before I get there (pension age for me is 67 & I'm only mid 50's...I'm unsure of the citizenship side, but I can't imagine surrendering it...that is a huge move indeed). If the portability aspect does alter, then I'll simply go back to the drawing board...again!When you renounce citizenship, don’t you also forfeit your social security, which is my main means of income.
90 days is the limit. They will be looking for you after that. The exception is a work Visa.Good luck with that. Wish I could help, but I haven't had much success with that....
My occasional fantasy? I just do it! Retire, liquidate my assets (such as they are), fly to Barajas, bus to the Camino and then somehow disappear. Become an illegal migrant!... I used to think that someone dodging the authorities could go a long time on the Camino before being discovered. Not sure about that now....
Sorry for the delay in this response. Busy days... To answer your question, no. I didn’t do a trial run first. I’ve spent a number of vacations and caminos trying to identify the region I’m most suited to. Then I did an entire trip just for house hunting. When I saw my home, I just knew it was where my soul needed to be. There was no question, no worries, etc. it is the home and location of my heart. I think that, for most people, renting first and moving around until you find the perfect fit is prudent. It was really my intent, but was happy to discover that there was no need.If you don't mind sharing @CaminoforLife (or perhaps PM me?), did you do a 'trial run' as a resident in your chosen locality by renting for a period first? Or did you have the certainty to dive straight into purchasing your home? My plan is to rent on arrival & search for a place to buy once actually on the ground.
I for one, would be really interested to know how you tackled this aspect.
Many thanks & best wishes...your new life is so close to fruition!
Nice one, thanks for the info re. Age pension. Does maintaining Aussie residence mean staying in Australia or just having a house there ?I’m in the same boat as you, still 15 yrs before any age pension, assuming no changes. I went to Portugal and Spain last year to do a short Camino and have a look. And was planning another visit this year but as we are imprisoned in our own countr, it probably won’t be for at least 12 months. I think a trial run is a must, for at least three months.For Australians, we must be established residents at the time of applying for eg, the aged pension. Once the pension has been granted, we have to maintain Aussie residency for two years then benefits become 'portable' allowing us to live permanently overseas & still receive the pension. This is the rule I feel may change before I get there (pension age for me is 67 & I'm only mid 50's...I'm unsure of the citizenship side, but I can't imagine surrendering it...that is a huge move indeed). If the portability aspect does alter, then I'll simply go back to the drawing board...again!
Best wishes to all. Good luck in pursuing (& not giving up on) our dreams.
As it currently stands, we must be actually residing in & be verifiably permanent residents of Australia at the time of applying for the AP...ie be able to prove we've been in the country for a period of time prior to applying.Nice one, thanks for the info re. Age pension. Does maintaining Aussie residence mean staying in Australia or just having a house there ?I’m in the same boat as you, still 15 yrs before any age pension, assuming no changes. I went to Portugal and Spain last year to do a short Camino and have a look. And was planning another visit this year but as we are imprisoned in our own countr, it probably won’t be for at least 12 months. I think a trial run is a must, for at least three months.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience @CaminoforLife & for the offer of info/advice via PM....I may take you up on that as things come to mind.Sorry for the delay in this response. Busy days... To answer your question, no. I didn’t do a trial run first. I’ve spent a number of vacations and caminos trying to identify the region I’m most suited to. Then I did an entire trip just for house hunting. When I saw my home, I just knew it was where my soul needed to be. There was no question, no worries, etc. it is the home and location of my heart. I think that, for most people, renting first and moving around until you find the perfect fit is prudent. It was really my intent, but was happy to discover that there was no need.
I hope you also find the process fun and fulfilling. Don’t get me wrong. It is a process, and often not fun. But if you can take things one step at a time, and accept that everything takes 5 times longer to happen than you are expecting, you can find balance. It’s so important to not stress over the process. When you find the right home, you will feel it and know it. After that, everything will proceed as it will.
Again, if you are interested in Asturias, I highly recommend my lawyer in Oviedo as a resource. Feel free to PM me with any questions regarding details. My best to you. This is an exciting and daunting endeavor!
Thank you for the positive vibes! Much appreciated!
Righto. That’s a massive step. I have only been once last year. Admittedly it was with my son who was poor company but I was quite surprised at how much I craved to speak English after a few weeks. Had it not been for the government response to Covid, I would have visited again this year with my wife and daughter, with a view to soaking up the “vibe” and perhaps heading south of Lisbon where maybe more expats live. Nothing like having a chat face to face to understand other people’s experiences. I did like the countryside around Barrels. It’s just a shame it’s such a long trip otherwise I could afford to buy a (basic) holiday house there ! I do wonder whether family ties are stronger than we think, especially if my kids have children.As it currently stands, we must be actually residing in & be verifiably permanent residents of Australia at the time of applying for the AP...ie be able to prove we've been in the country for a period of time prior to applying.
Apart from Dept of Immigration records, tax returns are also used to verify our status; the very 1st question on our tax return is 'Are you an Australian resident for taxation purposes?' The rules (& ramifications) are encyclopedic in volume so thorough research is key.
What I plan to do...& I hope the ATO doesn't read this!... is;
in my late 50's go to Spain for a few years utilizing the Non Lucrative Visa. During that time I will suss everything out & decide if I want to make the move permanently.
Blue pill - itch scratched, return to Aus & continue on my merry way
Red pill - decide Spain is where I want to live, return to Aus in my early 60's, re-establish my permanent residency beyond doubt, apply for the AP at 67, restructure finances/sell up to minimize tax implications, 'serve' my 2 year portability requirement & then...go!
I would not even consider surrendering my Aussie citizenship so the door remains open for later on in life if needed.
The bureaucracy is complicated on both sides but slow & steady should get us over the line...just like walking a Camino.
Of course, that's only natural. I don't have the ties you mention. I'm actually at the other end of the spectrum; the reason I'm waiting is due to having elderly parents.Righto. That’s a massive step. I have only been once last year. Admittedly it was with my son who was poor company but I was quite surprised at how much I craved to speak English after a few weeks. Had it not been for the government response to Covid, I would have visited again this year with my wife and daughter, with a view to soaking up the “vibe” and perhaps heading south of Lisbon where maybe more expats live. Nothing like having a chat face to face to understand other people’s experiences. I did like the countryside around Barrels. It’s just a shame it’s such a long trip otherwise I could afford to buy a (basic) holiday house there ! I do wonder whether family ties are stronger than we think, especially if my kids have children.
Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry to [redacted by moderator].
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
I retired to Portugal 4 years ago. I am English with both American and Canadian family. If I can help just ask. I have never had a single regret for our decision. One of the benefits is I simply jump on a bus or train anytime I want to walk any of the Camino routes. Life in Portugal is amazing.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry to [redacted by moderator].
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Americans residing abroad have incredible tax problems. Not only do you have to pay taxes to
None of my business, really, but I’m curious. Possibly I’m giving you unwelcome advice, but something compels me too. Apologies for any offense.....and as soon I get that Portuguese passport I will be heading to the US embassy to renounce.
Yes, that is true...but it's not just property you'll be taxed on, it's all assets; everything you own, everywhere. I'm still trying to find out if superannuation (Aussie term for funds contributed towards retirement) is considered an asset for Spanish taxation purposes.I'm from EU and also plan to retire to Spain. I haven't checked lately but a while ago if you are Spanish tax resident you have to pay property tax on any property you have anywhere in the whole world. I didn't check it too much as I plan to sell what I have in order to buy my castle in Spain. Still worth checking if you plan to have another home somewhere.
You don’t get tax credits or deductions for taxes you’ve paid elsewhere? For instance if you pay property taxes in Australia or elsewhere in the European Union?Yes, that is true...but it's not just property you'll be taxed on, it's all assets; everything you own, everywhere. I'm still trying to find out if superannuation (Aussie term for funds contributed towards retirement) is considered an asset for Spanish taxation purposes.
There's an old saying about 'the only two certainties in life'; there's no doubt when moving internationally, one of those certainties (taxes) becomes a double whammy!
Best wishes with your plans @SeaHorse ..I'd be interested to know how/if the process is different for you already being from the EU.
I'm still researching the taxation implications on both the Australian & Spanish side. As I mentioned in an earlier post (reply #18) on this thread, there is a dual taxation treaty between the two nations but navigating it & applying it is quite another matter! If a lawyer was required to untangle it all, that cost would need to factored in against potential tax savings.You don’t get tax credits or deductions for taxes you’ve paid elsewhere? For instance if you pay property taxes in Australia or elsewhere in the European Union?
I retired to Portugal 4 years ago. I am English with both American and Canadian family. If I can help just ask. I have never had a single regret for our decision. One of the benefits is I simply jump on a bus or train anytime I want to walk any of the Camino routes. Life in Portugal is amazing.
Let me know what information you need. You are right, especially on Facebook, many of the sights contain a lot of misinformation.
Thanks for the good wishes! For me it's easy. We don't know how it will be for my husband because of Brexit. We'll see. So far we are going to retire, sell our home, but keep a point of reference (i.e. at very least an address for official purposes but possibly also a room) in our kid's place. We don't say hop before we jump and don't immediately switch over to becoming all Spanish. Tax at the beginning will go to the country we already know and that is very good towards us. We buy a RV, drive over to Spain, find the new house, buy it. With RV we can hang on a few months and check different areas in Spain. Looking at the area by Vizcaya bay approximately between Santander and Gijon, or Valencia - Alicante, or Cadiz province. We both have private health insurance that works in all EU (and the rest of the world too but with different conditions). We keep the RV to wander around Europe in summers when it's nice there and return in winter when it's nice in Spain. Meaning we stay in Spain under the time threshold when it would be required to become tax residents there. When we get older and more sedentary we revise the plan. So yes, that's it in short outline.Yes, that is true...but it's not just property you'll be taxed on, it's all assets; everything you own, everywhere. I'm still trying to find out if superannuation (Aussie term for funds contributed towards retirement) is considered an asset for Spanish taxation purposes.
There's an old saying about 'the only two certainties in life'; there's no doubt when moving internationally, one of those certainties (taxes) becomes a double whammy!
Best wishes with your plans @SeaHorse ..I'd be interested to know how/if the process is different for you already being from the EU.
Sounds like you have a solid plan in place & are well on your way @SeaHorse.Thanks for the good wishes! For me it's easy. We don't know how it will be for my husband because of Brexit. We'll see. So far we are going to retire, sell our home, but keep a point of reference (i.e. at very least an address for official purposes but possibly also a room) in our kid's place. We don't say hop before we jump and don't immediately switch over to becoming all Spanish. Tax at the beginning will go to the country we already know and that is very good towards us. We buy a RV, drive over to Spain, find the new house, buy it. With RV we can hang on a few months and check different areas in Spain. Looking at the area by Vizcaya bay approximately between Santander and Gijon, or Valencia - Alicante, or Cadiz province. We both have private health insurance that works in all EU (and the rest of the world too but with different conditions). We keep the RV to wander around Europe in summers when it's nice there and return in winter when it's nice in Spain. Meaning we stay in Spain under the time threshold when it would be required to become tax residents there. When we get older and more sedentary we revise the plan. So yes, that's it in short outline.
When you move over you also will be able to go food shopping to Portugal or France. A day trip or weekend by plane literally anywhere in Europe, most flights are about 2-3 h long. I go food shopping over border regularly and easy can be in 3 countries in 1 day. 4 if specially trying. 5 with some effort but not trying to set any records. Countries are small here. I'm still amazed that my American friend kept his horse 300 km away from home and called it a "commute". 300 km depending on direction can be quite many countries. Spain and France are big, each stretching about 1000 km but once you are over those you can start skipping from one country to next within hours. Although I prefer slow, there's also very much to see, every town and village have some interesting place to visit, be it a church, gothic cathedral, crafts or farm offering tours, geological formations, castles, palaces, gardens, zoos, etc. That's why we want the RV and not travel by plane. There's so much in between point A and B.Sounds like you have a solid plan in place & are well on your way @SeaHorse.
As always, the concept of driving to another country is amazing to me...it sure would take a mighty set of floaties!
Good luck as you set off towards a new life.
I live on an island (Tasmania) off an island (mainland Australia) so being able to straddle an imaginary line & have each foot in a different country, culture, language, etc is always astounding. I absolutely can't wait to experience it all. Living it on a day-to-day basis as a local rather than in 'trip-mode' is hugely appealing...as is accessibility; no expensive, 30 hour long haul flights...bliss!When you move over you also will be able to go food shopping to Portugal or France. A day trip or weekend by plane literally anywhere in Europe, most flights are about 2-3 h long. I go food shopping over border regularly and easy can be in 3 countries in 1 day. 4 if specially trying. 5 with some effort but not trying to set any records. Countries are small here. I'm still amazed that my American friend kept his horse 300 km away from home and called it a "commute". 300 km depending on direction can be quite many countries. Spain and France are big, each stretching about 1000 km but once you are over those you can start skipping from one country to next within hours. Although I prefer slow, there's also very much to see, every town and village have some interesting place to visit, be it a church, gothic cathedral, crafts or farm offering tours, geological formations, castles, palaces, gardens, zoos, etc. That's why we want the RV and not travel by plane. There's so much in between point A and B.
Oh, Tasmania! That's FAR! Interestingly the only "person" from Tasmania that I know is a dog. A puppy was transported all the way to Europe.I live on an island (Tasmania) off an island (mainland Australia) so being able to straddle an imaginary line & have each foot in a different country, culture, language, etc is always astounding. I absolutely can't wait to experience it all. Living it on a day-to-day basis as a local rather than in 'trip-mode' is hugely appealing...as is accessibility; no expensive, 30 hour long haul flights...bliss!
Thanks @SeaHorse, for your enthusiasm & for dangling the carrot even more! Maybe I'll move my plans forward...
I am a permanent resident of Spain. I have now been here for 7 years. It is not until one has been in Spain for 10 years that it is possible to begin the process of obtaining citizenship. I will be moving to Portugal next week where it will be possible to apply for citizenship after living there for 5 years.I'm planning to move to Portugal soon and so I've looked around for some properties. The Golden Visa program seems pretty good to me as along with my investment in my second home I'll get a residency and citizenship after just 5 years. I've heard there are some new rules that will exclude coastal areas and big cities but according to the Portugal Golden Visa Guide there's still time to buy property in Lisbon. There's also a very nice comparison of the different European residency and citizenship programs at:
https://www.portugal-golden-visa.pt/comparison-of-european-citizenship-by-investment-visa-programs
I didn't know that it takes 10 years to get citizenship in Spain?
Good luck with your move! Be advised that, according to our immigration lawyer, the application for Portuguese citizenship will take about a year to be processed. So you can apply after 5 years but in reality it will take 6 (which was the previous law anyway). We can apply mid-2022.I am a permanent resident of Spain. I have now been here for 7 years. It is not until one has been in Spain for 10 years that it is possible to begin the process of obtaining citizenship. I will be moving to Portugal next week where it will be possible to apply for citizenship after living there for 5 years.
Thanks for clarifying the timeframes @lindam....I thought applying to be a long term permanent Spanish resident after 5 consecutive years of residency was the commencement of the citizenship application process.I am a permanent resident of Spain. I have now been here for 7 years. It is not until one has been in Spain for 10 years that it is possible to begin the process of obtaining citizenship. I will be moving to Portugal next week where it will be possible to apply for citizenship after living there for 5 years.
Hey, I had the same doubt and found this article from very well known lawyers in Spain.Does anyone know of high quality books, websites or other resources about moving to or retiring in Spain or Portugal?
Many of the websites I’ve seen seem pretty questionable, at least amateurish if not downright scammy.
So far the books I’ve found aren’t much better. For example, I was just disappointed by this “Move to Portugal” title which, if their marketing is any indication, seems to have been thrown together in a hurry to [redacted by moderator].
So has anyone found a reliable, informative resource?
I’m also thinking of buying an hour of a Spanish or Portuguese immigration attorney’s time, if someone has a referral.
Thanks.
Once you've done all that, it's a frustratingly slow but predictable process to get a renewable two-year residency permit, convertible to permanent residency or citizenship after five years..
Good point. The A2 language requirement in Portugal would be easy for some and hard for others - here's a video by the great Liz Sharma that gives you some idea about what the test entails. Remember that you have five years to get to level A2.Having been through this process for both Spain and Portugal, it should be noted that permanent residency (following five years of temporary residency) and/or citizenship in Portugal requires a certain level of language proficiency. Otherwise, it is possible to continue to renew one's temporary residency indefinitely. Spain differs in that one can attain permanent residency after five years of temporary residency. The language requirement is needed only if/when one wants to apply for citizenship in Spain.
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