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One question that comes to mind following the various posts and requests for help !!The Spanish government has released safety and hygiene guidelines governing all accommodations. There is a special document for each type - hotel, casa rural, albergue (all, not specifically those on the Camino), etc.
It is in Spanish but considering the length I'm not going to translate.
There is no mention of how long these regulations will stay in place nor as of when they need to be implemented.
This is quite a blow for all involved, both pilgrims and hospitaleros.
https://www.mincotur.gob.es/es-es/COVID-19/Paginas/Guias-sector-turistico.aspx
Payment by card is not an obligation for albergues, it's a recommendation. "Albergues" as mentioned in the government guidelines are all sorts of albergues, including pilgrim albergues but not only those. Besides, there are pilgrim albergues on the Camino Frances for example who do have the option of payment by card; use of cards is encouraged.Payment by card at donativos I have never heard of has anyone else ?
One question that comes to mind following the various posts and requests for help !!
how will the already struggling Donativos mange to accomodate these requirements, the investment ?
The Spanish government has released safety and hygiene guidelines governing all accommodations. There is a special document for each type - hotel, casa rural, albergue (all, not specifically those on the Camino), etc.
It is in Spanish but considering the length I'm not going to translate.
There is no mention of how long these regulations will stay in place nor as of when they need to be implemented.
This is quite a blow for all involved, both pilgrims and hospitaleros.
https://www.mincotur.gob.es/es-es/COVID-19/Paginas/Guias-sector-turistico.aspx
Thanks for posting, Lee. We hadn't seen these yet - very helpful information.
Hang in there, Lee.The list goes on...
Is there anything that prevents you from delegating the disinfection duties to pilgrims themselves? Of course quality control is the issue here...but...how could you manage to do that?Pilgrims will need to wash clothes, shower etc one at a time. It looks like I will need to disinfect after each visit rather than once a day.
A buffet, that you serve, eaten sitting in a properly distanced circle in the courtyard?How will I be able to offer a communal dinner and breakfast whilst still following the regulations?
Hang in there, Lee.
It must feel overwhelming, having to figure out how to adjust absolutely everything. Including how to maintain a pilgrim culture in the face of regulations whose intention is to keep people apart. I honestly can't imagine pilgrims keeping that kind of distance except perhaps in dormitories.
Whatever physical things you end up doing, the most important thing will be the heart behind it. And you have that in abundance!
Is there anything that prevents you from delegating the disinfection duties to pilgrims themselves? Of course quality control is the issue here...but...how could you manage to do that?
A buffet, that you serve, eaten sitting in a properly distanced circle in the courtyard?
Gaak. Me neither. I was thinking it could be a little like a potluck where people don't sit at a table, but balance their plates in their laps - so you could separate chairs at the necessary distance. And then people would just have talk loudly enough to maintain a flow of conversation.People are suggesting the use of physical barriers (glass, plexiglass etc) but that doesn't sit well with me.
I think this is true. Perhaps this can be viewed as another step toward larger "personal space" as we go about our business. Handshaking can disappear and be replaced by a namaste greeting - we can already see this starting to happen.You know people do get used to socially distancing.
@Kiwi-familyYou’re looking for positives? It could end up great for introverts and other solo walkers!!
Thanks for mentioning this, I didn't know that. A few weeks ago, they did a 45 minutes show about the people they had visited during the earlier shows, it is called Eviva España, Spain during the times of Corona 2020. It's in the form of interviews and videoclips with the help of laptops and mobile phones, what else.it is totally off topic, but I now realise you own an albergue in the same village as Christine, who was followed in the Belgian tv-show Eviva España.
@LTfit, it is totally off topic, but I now realise you own an albergue in the same village as Christine, who was followed in the Belgian tv-show Eviva España. I was mostly surprised about the stories she told about the village you live in. I mean, the people who live there and how they (don't) get along.
I am happy to read that you found your spirit back! I really hope something of the pilgrims season can be saved.
I couldn't (because of the geolocation). Only saw the original tv-show, because it is online now for a couple of months. Watched it because I know the couple in Asturias and then happily surprised there was a hospitalera in it as well.I managed to watch it but there are some (geolocation related) hurdles for viewers. They have put the whole series on their website for free viewing, the series is available from April to August 2020. I also watched episode 2 that features Christine and the albergue (which is now @LTfit's albergue) for the first time.
So that's it! She left and you took over. Do you know where she went and why?@Luka as @Kathar1na mentions at the end of her post, I'm in the same village because I bought Christine's albergue on March 13th (and had to close 2 days later).
I saw the original Eviva España when still in The Netherlands. Personally I thought it of poor quality, nothing like the Dutch KRO program which also had a segment about the albergue.
I actually spoke to the woman who runs the Eviva show in March. She called wanting to talk to Christine not realizing that she had gone. The woman was interested in my story and how I was dealing with the COVID situation then asked if I would be willing to be on the follow-up TV program but that she first had to clear the change with her producer. In the end they interviewed Christine in her new home. I tried to watch the follow-up show on my laptop but I can't get it to work.
So that's it! She left and you took over. Do you know where she went and why?
Madre mía... 2 days after you took over... That is really sad...
I am not sure which KRO show you are talking about, but I guess that was all about pilgrims? While the Belgian show was about emigrants of all kinds.
She retired and decided to stop (long story). She is now in Voznuevo near Bomar.
I forget the name of the program @SabineP could you help me out here?
If you have Facebook it is on the Facebook page of the albergue. It was on several years ago and is the best TV program that I have yet to see on the Camino. The real thing, not a reality show.
Camping where?Would camping not work?
My 2p ......
"Would camping not work?"
"Camping where?"
There's an opportunity here to give the Camino 'scene' a much needed boost, as it is probably going to take a C19 hit for a while; camping can reduce the numbers staying in hostels and ease one pressure, but still bring in much needed income for those providing services like food, restaurants, maybe showers and so on. I appreciate that it's not for everyone, but there are many of us walking Caminos who like camping and especially wild camping and would love the opportunity to do this without having to look over our shoulders and feeling naughty if we put up a tent late, or get our head down under a bivvy, and are gone in the morning, leaving no sign we were there.
Perhaps it's time that the Government looked at how it can accommodate Camino walkers who want to carry a tent, perhaps look at relaxing wild camping rules, drawing a up a code of conduct for campers e.g. no fires, bury waste, leave no trace, no more than one night allowed, only allowed between 7pm and 7am, not allowed within 500m of any dwelling, perhaps allowing camping in certain areas for a fee etc etc. Thinking back to the walks I've done (mostly the less travelled ones, admittedly), the option to camp would have been awesome and I could have camped without interfering with anyone. Many countries already allow this and function just fine e.g. Scotland.
It clearly needs to be thought through, but in these strange times, perhaps the old ways do need to be revisited with fresh eyes and for people to think through new ideas.
Having a mental image of a group "properly spaced" shouting at each other....,Gaak. Me neither. I was thinking it could be a little like a potluck where people don't sit at a table, but balance their plates in their laps - so you could separate chairs at the necessary distance. And then people would just have talk loudly enough to maintain a flow of conversation.
Lee, where is your albergue please?@Luka as @Kathar1na mentions at the end of her post, I'm in the same village because I bought Christine's albergue on March 13th (and had to close 2 days later).
I saw the original Eviva España when still in The Netherlands. Personally I thought it of poor quality, nothing like the Dutch KRO program which also had a segment about the albergue.
I actually spoke to the woman who runs the Eviva show in March. She called wanting to talk to Christine not realizing that she had gone. The woman was interested in my story and how I was dealing with the COVID situation then asked if I would be willing to be on the follow-up TV program but that she first had to clear the change with her producer. In the end they interviewed Christine in her new home. I tried to watch the follow-up show on my laptop but I can't get it to work.
There is another thread going on right now about 'camping' with plenty of discussion on the topic (and apparently not the 1st time camping has been discussed on the Forum)Would camping not work?
There were a lot of smaller details about sleeping areas regarding things like providing storage outside of rooms for shoes and luggage,
Without starting any further discussion here all I can say is that - what I am taking away from THAT discussion is that camping along the Camino (esp. CF) is pretty much illegal.
I ran across this news story regarding an alburgue project in Canfranc on Camino Aragones.
Work begins to create a new pilgrim hostel in Canfranc (Huesca)
I’ve been disinfecting while travelling for decades. On Caminos I travel with WC and Dettol/Clorox wipes, disinfecting every toilet in every bar and every hotel room, not to mention airplanes. Under the current circumstances the judicious placement of cleaning products with reminders would go far to help the situation.Is there anything that prevents you from delegating the disinfection duties to pilgrims themselves? Of course quality control is the issue here...but...how could you manage to do that?
What about pitching a tent on the grounds of an albergue? They could still charge a fee for the use of showers, kitchen, clothes washing (which is usually outside anyway), while pilgrims can maintain social distancing."Would camping not work?"
"Camping where?"
Sorry, was going to say something and changed my mind, can't figure out how to cancel replying.Gaak. Me neither. I was thinking it could be a little like a potluck where people don't sit at a table, but balance their plates in their laps - so you could separate chairs at the necessary distance. And then people would just have talk loudly enough to maintain a flow of conversation.
Lee, where is your albergue please?
It's easy, Texas Walker. Down on the lower left side of your post are three little dots. If you click them, a pull-down menu comes up and one option says 'delete.'Sorry, was going to say something and changed my mind, can't figure out how to cancel replying.
Inside spaces seem particularly fraught. Outside is better. And yes...breathing each other's air right now is dangerous.I take it to mean that talking loudly over your separated plates is more an issue than passing in the hallways.
best to stay at home and forget the Camino for a few years.There is going to be a period of great adjustment, for all of us.
How will I be able to offer a communal dinner and breakfast whilst still following the regulations?
Pilgrims will need to wash clothes, shower etc one at a time. It looks like I will need to disinfect after each visit rather than once a day.
The list goes on...I am trying to visualize this out of the box and in a positive manner but it's really hard.
What about pitching a tent on the grounds of an albergue? They could still charge a fee for the use of showers, kitchen, clothes washing (which is usually outside anyway), while pilgrims can maintain social distancing.
I also think it might worth camping more, than using the albergues. I would really appreciate if they could have more outdoor showers, and toilets, like in campsites, too.Would camping not work?
A summary:
No more bunk beds, for sure.
2 metre distancing between people at all times - if not possible in some circumstances masks must be worn.
In shared rooms, except groups or families, if a bottom bunk is used, the top bunk opposite should be used on if 2 metre requirement can be met.
Strict cleaning regime
Kitchens must only be used once then everything must be cleaned - rules out communal kitchens
Meals - 2 metre distance to be observed at all times
Payment only by card is recommended.
Check in - distancing achieved e g by screens, masks and gloves
Also shoes and packs need to be sanitized before entering and if possible placed in plastic bags.
Plus no folders, books etc unless clean hands before and after use.
Sorry, was going to say something and changed my mind, can't figure out how to cancel replying.
In case we go to albergues I think this is clever regulation: "Individual lingerie. In shared rooms, the hostel will provide bagged or packed sheets and blankets. It will be the pilgrim himself who must make his own bed and instruct him to avoid touching beds or bunk beds of other clients".
All together do you think the new regulations about the distanced beds and more hygiene (=more cleaning) mean that it would cost more to walk the Camino? That the cost of the accomodation will rise? I know how hard it was for some hospitaleros to keep the cost / night around 10 EUROS / night.
Many rude and personal attack posts have been deleted in this thread. Several posts attacking pilgrims from a specific country have also been deleted.
Warning points have been awarded.
Further violations of the forum rules in regard to civil discourse and/or political posts will result in potential banning from the forum.
Thanks for a little assistance in keeping the forum polite and a calm place to visit.
I would also like to add that when moderators delete posts, it is done in the interests of keeping the forum free of rancor and rudeness, and focused on the Camino. The Rules were based on experience, of what topics lead to pointless discord. Moderators may or may not agree with any of the opinions expressed, but we try hard not to let that influence the moderation decisions.Moderators are not on the forum at all times of day and night, so you do have to be a bit patient.
Agreed. But there are different kinds of apps that work in one of two ways, decentralised and centralised. It’s the centralised apps that worry me. The one that they’re trialing where I live is a decentralised one, so after some consideration I decided to sign up, as it will let me know if I’ve been in contact with an infected person.No, I don't want to download the app that will show the authorities in Alberta where I am at all times, and whom I meet. The thought horrifies me.
@geripAgreed. But there are different kinds of apps that work in one of two ways, decentralised and centralised. It’s the centralised apps that worry me. The one that they’re trialing where I live is a decentralised one, so after some consideration I decided to sign up, as it will let me know if I’ve been in contact with an infected person.
And when people are reluctant to sign up the government will realise that they need to take another route for tracking the virus. As someone who is old enough to admit to using the old punch cards when at university, to say I’m not comfortable with the level of intrusiveness of today’s computer technology would be an understatement.@gerip
I have heard a very good description on CBC of a decentralized app which is under development for use in warning people when they have come in contact with someone who has tested positive for COVID-19. However, the authorities of the Government of Alberta have chosen to offer a centralized app to their citizens, and this is what is available to download here for my information to be available to the network that will handle the information. I prefer not to sign up. But I am an old-fashioned paranoid citizen; I even keep the location function on my iphone turned off most of the time.
Thanks for this. But a lot of emphasis seems to be placed on cleanliness of objects, surfaces, etc. when the greater threat is with contact between people. As Correos says in one of the comments, reopening of the Camino is planned for the autumn, so maybe the kinks will be worked out by then.The Correos site has this information in English
Camino de Santiago after Covid-19: security in hostels
Guide with measures for the prevention and reduction of infection by coronavirus in hostels in Spainwww.elcaminoconcorreos.com
I agree. I keep reading about places doing "deep cleaning", but it doesn't matter how clean a place is if infected people come in and recontaminate it right away. Just like bedbugs in albergues. An albergue can be as clean as possible, but a pilgrim with bedbugs in their backpack can come in and start a new infestation.But a lot of emphasis seems to be placed on cleanliness of objects, surfaces, etc. when the greater threat is with contact between people
Thanks for this. But a lot of emphasis seems to be placed on cleanliness of objects, surfaces, etc. when the greater threat is with contact between people. As Correos says in one of the comments, reopening of the Camino is planned for the autumn, so maybe the kinks will be worked out by then.
Actually there is no word when albergues are allowed to open. I am assuming already in July for Spanish pilgrims when the deescalation phases are finished and travel between regions allowed but this is not official.
Such a lot of uncertainty...Actually there is no word when albergues are allowed to open. I am assuming already in July for Spanish pilgrims when the deescalation phases are finished and travel between regions allowed but this is not official.
We will be meeting as a team tomorrow, in person for the first time since the lockdown began, to start going through the regulations to see what we need to do to even think about opening! I'm reading through multiple documents right now and feeling overwhelmed. Thankfully we still have time before any influx of pilgrims starts to arrive. And we are a relatively small operation...it seems albergue owners will have plenty more to think about as well in incorporating the new norms. Ánimo, @LTfit ! You can do it!
We will be meeting as a team tomorrow, in person for the first time since the lockdown began, to start going through the regulations to see what we need to do to even think about opening! I'm reading through multiple documents right now and feeling overwhelmed. Thankfully we still have time before any influx of pilgrims starts to arrive. And we are a relatively small operation...it seems albergue owners will have plenty more to think about as well in incorporating the new norms. Ánimo, @LTfit ! You can do it!
I think that new camping sites are not very likely. what would be more likely, however, is that those albergues who have gardens, could arrange for maybe one or two tent spaces (suitably apart) with the use of albergue facilities (bathroom, washing machine etc.). I would pay the same price as for the bed in the dorm for such a safe place to sleep.My 2p ......
"Would camping not work?"
"Camping where?"
There's an opportunity here to give the Camino 'scene' a much needed boost, as it is probably going to take a C19 hit for a while; camping can reduce the numbers staying in hostels and ease one pressure, but still bring in much needed income for those providing services like food, restaurants, maybe showers and so on. I appreciate that it's not for everyone, but there are many of us walking Caminos who like camping and especially wild camping and would love the opportunity to do this without having to look over our shoulders and feeling naughty if we put up a tent late, or get our head down under a bivvy, and are gone in the morning, leaving no sign we were there.
Perhaps it's time that the Government looked at how it can accommodate Camino walkers who want to carry a tent, perhaps look at relaxing wild camping rules, drawing a up a code of conduct for campers e.g. no fires, bury waste, leave no trace, no more than one night allowed, only allowed between 7pm and 7am, not allowed within 500m of any dwelling, perhaps allowing camping in certain areas for a fee etc etc. Thinking back to the walks I've done (mostly the less travelled ones, admittedly), the option to camp would have been awesome and I could have camped without interfering with anyone. Many countries already allow this and function just fine e.g. Scotland.
It clearly needs to be thought through, but in these strange times, perhaps the old ways do need to be revisited with fresh eyes and for people to think through new ideas.
Thanks for this. Looks like there is some opportunity to pitch a tent at least within a days walk of each stopping point, for the most part.I think that new camping sites are not very likely. what would be more likely, however, is that those albergues who have gardens, could arrange for maybe one or two tent spaces (suitably apart) with the use of albergue facilities (bathroom, washing machine etc.). I would pay the same price as for the bed in the dorm for such a safe place to sleep.
with this in mind, I updated my list of albergues on the francés with the official camping grounds and albergues who have been known to let pilgrims pitch a tent (with the number of places and prices, where I could find them). I have also indicated albergues with gardens which can be asked for a tent place.
the situation is actually not as lacking in tent spaces as I thought. there may be the odd day that would have to be a bit long but otherwise I think it would be quite possible to camp legally on the camino, provided all the establishents will open and will be accepting tents.
if someone has more info, please do share.
In those parts of Spain that will enter phase 2 on Monday, the "public areas" in hostelry will be allowed to reopen -- so the question of when the albergues may reopen, at least in Galicia (inter-regional travel is still disallowed, even though for instance all of the Camino del Norte will starting on Monday be located in phase 2 areas), is starting to be a bit more live and current.
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