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According to Gronze the Parroquial albergue is closed, but El Descanso may be open.There is the albergue Parroquial San Juan de Ortega (tel. 34 947 560 438) and the albergue El descanso de San Juan (tel. 34 690 398 024), I don't know if they are open.
Your itinerary so far looks very good. May I suggest the following:Our itinerary from Logroño to Burgos will be more or less the following, with a slow start:
Logroño
Navarrete
Nájera
St. Dom. de la Calzada
Belorado
?
Burgos
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
The ordinary route into Burgos is probably the worst of all days on the CF, far worse than out of Leon, so it should be avoided at all cost.
Is anyone noting costs on the ground? I am anticipating roughly 30% increase if all the hostels and albergues have to start covering The VAT by going to electronic payment methods, and also needing to recover from this last horrendous year and the coming very tenuous season. But then I think I am underestimating and should anticipate more like 50%.
Because I have a young adult whose disability does not qualify for support (falls through cracks), about 70% of my income over my own living costs goes to him...
As I plan for a sabbatical in 2022, I have to be super attentive to costs, and I wonder if I am anticipating well. I think only the people on the ground can know the answers. I am accustomed to spending an average of 27-30 euros per day, and I am thinking that might have to be 45 in the new landscape.
What are people seeing on the ground? ... assuming you are not always using hotels; that is out of the question for me.
If I can land in 2022 and rent an apartment somewhere, then all my costs are different, but that assumes stability at home that might not come. So I might only manage 3 weeks in late spring or late summer 2022 with my step-sister and need to think about Camino budgets rather than just resident budgets...
I am surprised! To make up the 17% charged over the 10 euros they have to charge 11.70 anyway. Will another 30 cents per visitor be enough to dig out from 2020??I do not think that the albergues increase their prices by more than one or two euros, a 10 or maximum 20%, I only understand that with the albergues that have loans from the banks.
I imagine that we cannot raise more than one or two euros. Going higher would make them lose pilgrims, and it would only be possible if everyone from the same area did. Some hostel near us wanted to raise three euros, nine months ago. We did not want to participate in that and we maintained the prices before the pandemic, the result was that they did not raise the price in the summer ... of course.
A euro or two is a figure that for many pilgrims is not important, but for many others, that in each hostel and in each restaurant, it is a lot after a month of walking. I suppose that each hostel is a world apart with its specific problems, and I cannot generalize, that is why I cannot imagine increases of more than two euros, and the losses of last year, can be recovered little by little over time, and accept them as part of a situation in which the most important thing is to survive, such as during a war, and then, as in a post-war period, in which the logical thing is to maintain the prices of the products as much as possible and not to look at each other with eyes of "I'm going to get your money" or "I see you want my money" ... this, which happens frequently, destroys more than many ignorant people think.
It is my view of the situation, and I hope there are no abusive rises.
I'm confused. I haven't read that albergues are suddenly being taxed this 17% rate. Do you have a link about what you are referring to? Thanks.I am surprised! To make up the 17% charged over the 10 euros they have to charge 11.70 anyway. Will another 30 cents per visitor be enough to dig out from 2020??
Amazing...
It comes out of another conversation in which someone asked if cash would still be king and Ivan responded that cash allows people not to pay the VAT. Legally, being taxed at 17% would not be new or sudden, it would just have to be implemented if business owners moved to bank card transactions. That means that they would have to pay the VAT they had previously been able to avoid. VAT is 17%, so... to keep the same 10 euros per head/bed that it used to get, an albergue would have to go to 11.70; same for the standard 10 euro pilgrim meal. So... if a business now charges 12 euros but has to use chip cards then they would actually be losing 4 cents per head compared to the old rate (.17 x 12 = 2.04 ; therefore net is 9.96) — it’s a net loss, and even greater a loss from the value of that 10 euro note in 2014 (which I use as my benchmark because it is what I was paying in 2014).I'm confused. I haven't read that albergues are suddenly being taxed this 17% rate. Do you have a link about what you are referring to? Thanks.
Belorado - Villafranca Montes del Oca: Albergue/hotel San Antonio Abad: Tlf: 947 582 150. The municipal albergue has been closed for some years now. Food, good facilities & bar there. Good.
Villafranca - Ages: Albergue La Taberna de Ages. Good food reported. Tlf: 947 400 697/660 044 575. San Juan d
Please remember this is supposed to be a pilgrimage. The shaggy old walk into Burgos is just as much Camino as the lovely walk into Triacastela. There are plenty of scenic hikes for you to choose from, all over the world. A pilgrim takes it as it comes.This phrase should be printed on the first page of all the Camino credentials.
Be kind to your hospitaleros!
So you are working on the assumption that most businesses are cheating on their taxes? I can see how that can happen in many cash businesses, but don't albergues have to keep records of how many guests they had? I truly don't know the answer to this question, or the question of how many businesses are underreporting their sales.It comes out of another conversation in which someone asked if cash would still be king and Ivan responded that cash allows people not to pay the VAT. Legally, being taxed at 17% would not be new or sudden, it would just have to be implemented if business owners moved to bank card transactions. That means that they would have to pay the VAT they had previously been able to avoid. VAT is 17%, so... to keep the same 10 euros per head/bed that it used to get, an albergue would have to go to 11.70; same for the standard 10 euro pilgrim meal. So... if a business now charges 12 euros but has to use chip cards then they would actually be losing 4 cents per head compared to the old rate (.17 x 12 = 2.04 ; therefore net is 9.96) — it’s a net loss, and even greater a loss from the value of that 10 euro note in 2014 (which I use as my benchmark because it is what I was paying in 2014).
For me one of the most important things on the Camino de Santiago is freedom, and the consequence of this is not asking questions of pilgrims and not prejudging or assuming that what they do is not what to do. The Camino de Santiago gives everyone the right to do what they want, as long as they do not bother others. And, if they are wrong, they will already learn something from it, the Camino is like life, a permanent school. For the pilgrims and me, of course.Please remember this is supposed to be a pilgrimage. The shaggy old walk into Burgos is just as much Camino as the lovely walk into Triacastela. There are plenty of scenic hikes for you to choose from, all over the world. A pilgrim takes it as it comes.
As for albergue prices: In 2020, when pilgrim albergues were allowed to open for three months and almost all "competition" from municipal and volunteer-run albergues was removed, some for-profit albergues found themselves the only place open in town. They jacked their prices to the skies. In Vilar de Mazarife, the only available pilgrim beds were priced at 40 euros! The Camino Primitivo was so plagued with price-gouging that many pilgrims gave up and went home. (not everyone did it, but enough did. Sad.)
Remove the generosity and goodwill of the donativo system, and the Camino becomes another tourism product. Be kind to your hospitaleros!
So you are working on the assumption that most businesses are cheating on their taxes? I can see how that can happen in many cash businesses, but don't albergues have to keep records of how many guests they had? I truly don't know the answer to this question, or the question of how many businesses are underreporting their sales.
As I already mentioned in the thread about cash, no albergue is required to accept debit or credit cards. Some choose to do so as a service to pilgrims. I have never experienced albergues raising prices to cover VAT. When I took over Albergue Villares de Orbigo in March 2020 I raised the price of a bed from €8 to €10 which seemed reasonable, Covid year or not. In fact pilgrims who stayed with me when the lockdown was lifted said that most were charging €12.00. As Gabriel mentioned, prices vary depending on location and often governed by the prices of albergues around you.It comes out of another conversation in which someone asked if cash would still be king and Ivan responded that cash allows people not to pay the VAT. Legally, being taxed at 17% would not be new or sudden, it would just have to be implemented if business owners moved to bank card transactions. That means that they would have to pay the VAT they had previously been able to avoid. VAT is 17%, so... to keep the same 10 euros per head/bed that it used to get, an albergue would have to go to 11.70; same for the standard 10 euro pilgrim meal. So... if a business now charges 12 euros but has to use chip cards then they would actually be losing 4 cents per head compared to the old rate (.17 x 12 = 2.04 ; therefore net is 9.96) — it’s a net loss, and even greater a loss from the value of that 10 euro note in 2014 (which I use as my benchmark because it is what I was paying in 2014).
Yes, indeed I always stay at the tavern across the church as you enter Castrojirez, a very friendly man and room comfortable which includes a bathroom. I recommend it.I am very far away from my pilgrim's passport right now, so I will just chime in to say that in 2014 I stayed in the first tavern in Castrojirez, right across from the church. I was injured and asked where the nearest rooms were as I nursed a beer, and my knees. The owner said "Upstairs! 20 euros!" They carried my bag up, and I had a lovely room all to myself over a pub. Like in Chaucer. If that's open... I'd recommend it even though it is *very* small. I don't think traffic will be heavy now anyway.
And I can say that La Morena in Ledigos had one of the most elegant suppers at a pilgrim or any price on my 2018 walk. [Edited to add because I had forgotten: started with freshly baked bread and soft cheese similar to the Arzua Tetillas, served with membrillo as a kind of glaze ] Grilled salmon steaks, a caldo Galicia, roasted potatoes with the salmon, and a mango mousse for dessert. All made in house. The albergue dorm was modern with nice facilities; the garden was lovely. Our trip was marred only by a pilgrim who began drinking early, finished late and threw up on herself at 4am in the doorway to the showers...
I hope that information helps regarding Catrojirez and Ledigos!
VAT on albergue beds and on hotel beds is actually 10% in Spain. And even those who prefer payment in cash pay their VAT duties to the treasury/IRS/CRA/AEAT because not everybody tries to cheat on VAT and income tax. Nor is it a bureaucratic nightmare for a small business to produce their VAT declaration every three months.Yes, post #28 in the thread “Is Cash Still King on Camino”. And my memory was off by 4 points; it’s 21% VAT.
The true Camino spirit at Luz de FromistaI talked to an albergue in Fromista yesterday… we did talk a little about the current situation
A Conversation with Anita and Gabriel from Albergue Luz de Frómista
Thx Alex, on my 2021 2nd CF I will take the river route into Burgos, with the help of the PDFYour itinerary so far looks very good. May I suggest the following:
Belorado - Villafranca Montes del Oca: Albergue/hotel San Antonio Abad: Tlf: 947 582 150. The municipal albergue has been closed for some years now. Food, good facilities & bar there. Good.
Villafranca - Ages: Albergue La Taberna de Ages. Good food reported. Tlf: 947 400 697/660 044 575. San Juan de Ortega has had mixed reports over the years, and it is nothing there except the albergue. Ages is just a couple of kms further, and is a very nice little village. When you come to Atapuerca next morning, you can visit the museum of the first Europens, if you like. Plenty of time before Burgos.
Ages - Burgos: Easy day. But beware: Be sure to walk the River route! If not, you'll have to walk some 8 kms in an industrial/suburb area on asphalt! Tip: After the height where you see Burgos, keep left. Directly after crossing a bridge over a highway, take left into the village of Castanares (some distance away, along the fence surrounding the airport), where you will find the river route. For a full/detailed description, I have placed a link for you here. That post also contains PDF style maps, links & instructions that will help you greatly.
You can also use the Search function on this forum, in the upper right corner, and search for "river route". More info.
I also would recommend the albergue Quatro Cantones in Belorado. They have a pool
The ordinary route into Burgos is probably the worst of all days on the CF, far worse than out of Leon, so it should be avoided at all cost. Instead, enjoy a beer/lunch in Castanares, and then enjoy a peaceful walk along the river into Burgos. A perfect day!
Buen Camino!
On Monday, @Rebekah Scott pointed out in this forum post that the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days but surely you know this already as you are in Spain.Our itinerary from Logroño to Burgos will be more or less the following, with a slow start:
Logroño
Navarrete
Nájera
On Monday, @Rebekah Scott pointed out in this forum post that the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days but surely you know this already as you are in Spain.
On Monday, @Rebekah Scott pointed out in this forum post that the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days but surely you know this already as you are in Spain.
Thank you, @gmag! It's great to hear from people in Spain, and especially since you phoned to find out more details for a specific situation.The Guardia Civil does NOT stop the pilgrims
Thank you, @gmag! It's great to hear from people in Spain, and especially since you phoned to find out more details for a specific situation.
We've read repeatedly that pilgrims on foot or bike had not been stopped, even when seen by the police. It appears that transit is allowed, with conditions attached to it still a bit unclear to me, while local residents apparently risk fines when they cross closed perimeter borders without justification?
Good luck and buen caminoI am in Spain at the moment and will walk the camino francés from Burgos to León starting in a few days. That is, if I can
Does anyone know how it is at the moment? Are (some of) the albergues open? And are there any official announcements about it?
Since I'm only walking a part of the way I'm mostly interested in what's going on in the region of Castilla y León. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
So the first (short) day from Logroño to Navarette went well. Didn't meet any pilgrims but plenty of locals walking to find some refuge from the lockdown out in the open.
In Navarette, we stayed at Albergue El Cántaro (€12, no heating atm, microwaves). The owner told us he had only had four other guests in 2021, so it was a surprise to wake up at 4 am and feel the itching of, yes, bed bugs. We actually saw them and took some photos. Mattresses have that rubbery cover and the whole place is very clean -- except the blankets. Why is it that albergue owners don't consider it as important to wash those perfect bed bug habitats?
In the morning, the host has been very nice and taken it seriously. He's washing and drying our clothes and sleeping bags (no washer in the albergue atm) and will clean the whole place again -- AND wash the blankets. So if you come here and find clean blankets, you can have peace of mind.
Thanks for pointing this out. We were actually just talking to our host about it. We're taking the bus to St Domingo to avoid the outbreak in Nájera and will carry on from there.
My camino association had an appointment to meet with the town council in Najera this week. It was canceled because the town is in lockdown -- no one allowed to go in or come out.
I am assuming the pilgrims are allowed to walk through, but they cannot stop there to sleep or eat -- Leon was on similar lockdown for a long time. But who knows?
So glad these pilgrims are here to tell us the town council in Najera is misinformed.
I wonder who "Felix" is.
Thanks Gabriel, you are a goldmine!
I can also confirm that the police don't fine (foreign) pilgrims. They stopped us arriving at the train station in Logroño and were a bit annoyed but then agreed among themselves that pilgrims are exempt from the restrictions.
In fact we were really taking the bus to avoid the outbreak, not the restrictions. But as it so happened the bus we were advised to take did not go to St Domingo. So we ended up walking the camino to Nájera anyway. It was a nice walk too. We just made sure our masks were tight and did not leave the albergue during our stay.
In Nájera we stayed at Las Peñas (€13), the dinner was indeed good, but the heating turned off during the night even though the host promised the contrary, so there were some cold and sleepless hours in the early morning.
Today we walked to Santo Domingo de la Calzada where we are staying at a hotel (€17 each). It was raining for most of the day and the clay from the roads stick to the shoes making them heavy -- just camino things
In Cirueña the restaurant was partly closed do to lack of customers but did still whip together a sandwich.
The last few kilometers the sun came out and the green fields looked amazing after the showers.
We have met other pilgrims! Two English people who have done it all the way from France. So that is actually possible, even in these times.
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