russ russell
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- want to walk this year either in april/may or september
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No Way! That's my opinion about common sense and heart attacks.The Napoleon route from St. Jean is a challenging walk. You need to use common sense here. Most people do struggle over successfully, the young and fit bound over, there is the occasional heart attack.
You may find some information on this thread about the gradients. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ied-de-pont-to-roncesvalle.15174/#post-109186. Just to give you a comparison, by my reckoning, a gradient of 35% requires 'scrambling,' and there is nothing even remotely near that on the Camino. Hope this helps.does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
I wonder where more heart attacks happen. On the route Napoleon or on the couch at home? Hmm
does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
Are we talking about the same route. Yes, you can drive as far as the cut off to the Font de Rolland then you are into walking terrain. I have seen cars on the Spanish side but they are only 4WD.The Napoleon route could be driven in a car. Most of it is along an existing road. Its not steep. Gradient averages out to about 60 meters per kilometer. The hard part is the distance ... and there is no place to get out of weather. Remember to pack a lunch and enough water. There are harder sections on the camino ... except this is the first day and conditioning is an issue.
My definition of steep is where you need to use a hand from time to time to maintain balance ... Very steep is where you need to use protection.
Are
Are we talking about the same route. Yes, you can drive as far as the cut off to the Font de Rolland then you are into walking terrain. I have seen cars on the Spanish side but they are only 4WD.
I'm with you. But Russ Russell seems to be interested in an honest evaluation of the route.No Way! That's my opinion about common sense and heart attacks.
IMO, the very first day 's hike from Saint Jean Pied de Port was quite challenging: quite a steep elevation gain to the top followed by a....steep descent on the other side of the mountain! I left St Jean on September 29, 2011 at 6ASM with only a cup of coffee, stopped for lunch at the mountaintop, devoured Basque Ham & Cheese and farmers' bread I took along. Be sure to buy food & provisions in town the day before you leave as all shops are closed early morning! Bon voyage!does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
My husband had his fatal heart attack at his desk at work. I'm absolutely certain he would have rather had it happen on the Camino.I wonder where more heart attacks happen. On the route Napoleon or on the couch at home? Hmm
I guess the answer would depend on how fit you are?does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
And that's where poles, properly used, will really be helpful. Buen Camino!...........The way down to Roncesvalles is shorter and (therefore) steeper.
My husband had his fatal heart attack at his desk at work. I'm absolutely certain he would have rather had it happen on the Camino.
Why do people say it is not the start of anything? It's the start of the Camino Frances, just like Santiago is the end of it and Le puy is the start of another, and Arles is the start of another. Your Camino can start anywhere, but if you want to do the CF, then SJPP it is, or Roncevalles.St Jean isn't the starting point of anything. It is just a popular and very touristic place to begin for many people.
That is the right attitude! Thank you Emily.I agree with Russ, this will be YOUR Camino, SO ignore all the white noise and do what is comfortable to YOU - don't try to keep up with anyone. - Easy does it. The Camino is not a race, it is a (spiritual) journey.
Thank you. He will be with me in my heart when I walk next June.I am so very sorry about that, Annie.
@Annie G my sympathy, for a heat-rending loss. I hope you feel his spirit soaring above on the winds of the camino, when next you walk, and closely beside you when you rest.
And, as a distraction, I love your avatar of a snail atop a tortoise - where did you find it?
The climb is not that difficult, people exaggerate. It is just steady 25-30 deg incline. Crossing the Pyrenees is a beautiful start though. If you want you can break that stage by stopping at Orisson.does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
If you plot the same diagram with a different "x" scale, you will see a completely different profile. AS it is drawn it gives a wrong impression as to its actual steepness.
Why do people say it is not the start of anything? It's the start of the Camino Frances, just like Santiago is the end of it.
Your Camino can start anywhere, but if you want to do the CF, then SJPP it is, or Roncevalles.
There is an oxymoron in there somewhere!The climb is not that difficult, people exaggerate. It is just steady 25-30 deg incline.
Yes of course. One's fitness level makes all the difference. Here we are talking about the steepness of the first stage compared to the rest of the Camino. Most of the climb is on paved roads. If you do this one go, its about 1250m elevation gain. If you break this stage into two and take it slow and steady it is doable as long as you don't have any health issues.Diagram? My heart and lungs tell me how steep the ascent, my knees how steep the descent.
does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean.. I am not sure if I should do the whole camino or start in Pamplona. so if anyone can help I would be very grateful . I believe the walk from st.jean is very steep to climb. is this true.?
Rajy62, I think you may want to re-examine that 25-30 degree figure. The elevation gain from SJPdP to Col de Lepoeder is approximately 1250 meters (1.25 km) over a distance of approximately 19 kilometers, which makes the average slope a little more than 6.5 percent -- that's a climb of 6.5 meters in every 100 meters of horizontal distance, or approximately 3.75 angular degrees. When you look at it that way, it's not nearly as intimidating as the elevation profile chart from the Brierly guidebook makes it appear. You have to make note of the difference between the vertical scale and the horizontal scale in the chart. Imagine stretching the same Brierley guidebook chart out so that both scales were the same as the vertical scale -- the chart would then be almost half a meter wide and the rise would look pretty insignificant. But let's not kid ourselves; for the average pilgrim setting out on the first day, even though he or she may have trained with a backpack over many miles or kilometers in the weeks and months before arriving, it is not exactly a stroll in the park. But no one in reasonably fit condition should have a real problem other than a lot of huffing and puffing and sweating. However, breaking it up by stopping at Orisson is a good idea if you can get a reservation -- not only for physical reasons but because the Orisson communal meal experience sets the stage in such a positive way for the rest of one's Camino.View attachment 17620
The climb is not that difficult, people exaggerate. It is just steady 25-30 deg incline. Crossing the Pyrenees is a beautiful start though. If you want you can break that stage by stopping at Orisson.
Alternate lower route has an elevation gain of 750m as opposed to the main route with 1250m, if you were to walk in one go.
Well now, I was not trying to be theoretical but rather to give a sense of the climb difficulty. If you look at the video posted above by pelgrimpaul, the stage looks relatively flat. So, although the average incline could be less but one should anticipate, at most, a steady 25-30 deg uphill.Rajy62, I think you may want to re-examine that 25-30 degree figure. The elevation gain from SJPdP to Col de Lepoeder is approximately 1250 meters (1.25 km) over a distance of approximately 19 kilometers, which makes the average slope a little more than 6.5 percent -- that's a climb of 6.5 meters in every 100 meters of horizontal distance, or approximately 3.75 angular degrees.
does anyone have any photos or information on how hard the first day is when leaving from st.jean..
It would be hard to imagine those Roman engineers running a road over the Napoleon route when the pass through Valcarlos was available. In fact the articles available are confusing. However they do state that the Roman road became the traditional route followed by such as Charlemagne (Carlos in Spanish- hence 'Valcarlos'). I suspect that the Roman road took the lower route.No personal passion involved in this, I just think it is interesting how things become accepted as fact.
The Roman road that preceeded the pilgrimage and upon which much of today's route still follows, was the Ab Asturica Burdigalam (according to Wikipedia - please correct me if I'm wrong all you scholars our there). It went over the top - what we call the Route Napoleon - and linked Bordeaux and Astorga. So one could equally and more historically correctly claim the "starting point" is Bordeaux.
Not many medieval pilgrims started walking at SJPDP - only the ones who lived there. It could be argued that any route that starts in France is the Camino Frances.
Names are arbitrary constructs. Ain't language fascinating?
It's all relative. What is steep for one person, might not seem so steep for another.
Here we are talking about the steepness of the first stage compared to the rest of the Camino.
The original question was whether one should consider starting in Pamplona instead, because it might be too steep to climb on the 1st stage. As has been pointed out by others, expect even more difficult terrain further in the Camino. Unless one has any underlying physical issues, knees/joints/back etc, it is doable and rewarding walk to try. If the elevation gain/distance is too much to handle on the "first stage" then split it into two stages. We all have varying fitness levels, only Russ could decide which starting point is best for him.Are we? I don't see anything about compared to the rest of the Camino in the OP. And remember, this is the first day of the Camino for the OP.
And the point I was trying to make was not to be critical of your comment, but rather to note that to one who casually looks at the elevation profiles in the guidebooks, the grades appear to be much steeper than they actually are. When I said the average grade out of St Jean is 6.5%, there are obviously sections that are steeper than that, as well as sections that are less steep. And there are a few short sections that are actually downhill. Nevertheless, it is a strenuous walk for most (myself included).Well now, I was not trying to be theoretical but rather to give a sense of the climb difficulty. If you look at the video posted above by pelgrimpaul, the stage looks relatively flat. So, although the average incline could be less but one should anticipate, at most, a steady 25-30 deg uphill.
I agree average grade is not that meaningful here. But elevation gain reflects the efforts involved, all else being equal. Yes, elevation profiles presented in the guides are distorted. I always look at the actual elevation gain and plan my day accordingly. So, 1250 m gain via the Nepoleon route would be the highest gain of all other suggested stages in Camino Frances. So, yes it is a strenuous walk. Good news is that options exists to either divide the stage into two or take the lower route and therefore reduce the elevation climbed per day before abandoning this section altogether. My 2c.And the point I was trying to make was not to be critical of your comment, but rather to note that to one who casually looks at the elevation profiles in the guidebooks, the grades appear to be much steeper than they actually are. When I said the average grade out of St Jean is 6.5%, there are obviously sections that are steeper than that, as well as sections that are less steep. And there are a few short sections that are actually downhill. Nevertheless, it is a strenuous walk for most (myself included).
Amen.I agree average grade is not that meaningful here. But elevation gain reflects the efforts involved, all else being equal. Yes, elevation profiles presented in the guides are distorted. I always look at the actual elevation gain and plan my day accordingly. So, 1250 m gain via the Nepoleon route would be the highest gain of all other suggested stages in Camino Frances. So, yes it is a strenuous walk. Good news is that options exists to either divide the stage into two or take the lower route and therefore reduce the elevation climbed per day before abandoning this section altogether. My 2c.
I walked over the Pyrenees, stopping overnight in Orisson, and yes, as someone else has said, sending part of my backpack over by Jacotransport. It was hard, partly because it was the first day or two of my walk. If I had encountered it two weeks later, it would have "felt" easier. Others have given you good advice . . . one step at a time, it's not a race. Or starting from Roncesalles, etc.
But I was very happy I sucked it up. When considering which route to walk for my upcoming second Camino, I thought I might go by way of Valcarlos if I did the Camino Frances again, or whether I'd find the Pyrenees not so intimidating, but I'm walking the Norte this time instead.
I suggest you get John Brierley's book for the Camino Frances. It was invaluable to me, both for seeing the elevations for each "stage", and for other excellent information. I tore the book into three sections, and put each part away after I was finished with it.
I was nearly 67 last time I walked, and I wanted to stick out that first part and overcome the challenge. I did it. Doesn't mean it's the right thing for everyone. And the person who said the diagram is much worse than the path is right. I never felt like I was "climbing" . . . just walking one step at a time up a very steep hill. Hiking poles are also invaluable. I probably saved myself (the clutz) from stumbling/falling at least once every day, due to the stablizing influence of the hiking sticks.
Buen Camino!
Have you tried to call?How did you book your reservation at Orisson? I am having trouble through the website. Thanks!
Great job Paul!!! Thank you
How did you book your reservation at Orisson? I am having trouble through the website. Thanks!
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