- Time of past OR future Camino
- started in 2012, hooked ever since.
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My friend JoJo calls it PilgrimBrain - when asked where you stayed the night before you look over your shoulder in an effort to remember.I sympathize! Sometimes I have trouble remembering the name of the town I slept in two days beforeOddly it seems to fix itself better in memory after I have finished and recall the journey as a whole. I remember some places, events and people quite vividly like a series of snapshots rather than a long documentary film.
Mum used to go through the list: Charlie, Mick, Peter, Jeff, Lorraine . . . in the hope we'd respond when she reached the one she wanted.I used to "meditate" on my every morning commute from the south coast of England to the Great Wen by following in my head paths I had previously trod. With a little effort I can follow every step, incline, decline, overhanging bush and babbling brook. I can physically go back to a place I last visited 50 years ago (and subject to the depredations of 50 years of development) follow a path and know where it leads and what to expect around the next corner. If you wanted or ever needed I could talk/walk you through the route from my old farm at Tynant to the Alternative Energy Centre at Machynlleth over Cader Idris to the point that you could walk it blindfold in a storm.
But, I'm leaning in to the screen here because I can't remember where the hell I've put my glasses. I can't always remember the names of my staff at work. It's a standing joke that I call everybody George: perhaps because that is what my father always called me and my brother because he couldn't remember our names.
And I cheat(?), I keep detailed notebooks (paper books written in with ink) of all my journeys. I don't "blog" because I always forget the passwords and user-names and pin-numbers. My notebooks are on the shelf next to me, labelled and dated. If I need to access that particular file in my brain there will be a clue in the notebooks - a meal or a wine that I enjoyed that I can taste again and put myself back in that place and time.
Isn't it marvellous that we are all so different!
Oh, and by the way, on the Primitivo that city with the wall? That was Lugo
Yes Lugo!!! Thank you do much @Tincatinker , seriously I could have sworn it was León...and of course it never was. I will never post a Camino plan on the forum promise xI used to "meditate" on my every morning commute from the south coast of England to the Great Wen by following in my head paths I had previously trod. With a little effort I can follow every step, incline, decline, overhanging bush and babbling brook. I can physically go back to a place I last visited 50 years ago (and subject to the depredations of 50 years of development) follow a path and know where it leads and what to expect around the next corner. If you wanted or ever needed I could talk/walk you through the route from my old farm at Tynant to the Alternative Energy Centre at Machynlleth over Cader Idris to the point that you could walk it blindfold in a storm.
But, I'm leaning in to the screen here because I can't remember where the hell I've put my glasses. I can't always remember the names of my staff at work. It's a standing joke that I call everybody George: perhaps because that is what my father always called me and my brother because he couldn't remember our names.
And I cheat(?), I keep detailed notebooks (paper books written in with ink) of all my journeys. I don't "blog" because I always forget the passwords and user-names and pin-numbers. My notebooks are on the shelf next to me, labelled and dated. If I need to access that particular file in my brain there will be a clue in the notebooks - a meal or a wine that I enjoyed that I can taste again and put myself back in that place and time.
Isn't it marvellous that we are all so different!
Oh, and by the way, on the Primitivo that city with the wall? That was Lugo
No, no ,no. Post! Post amazing adventures and incredible discoveries and treasured memories. And if your geography is a bit wobbly some pedant like me or another of the brethren will strive to gently correctYes Lugo!!! Thank you do much @Tincatinker , seriously I could have sworn it was León...and of course it never was. I will never post a Camino plan on the forum promise x
Okay , you're on!No, no ,no. Post! Post amazing adventures and incredible discoveries and treasured memories. And if your geography is a bit wobbly some pedant like me or another of the brethren will strive to gently correct
However there is one thing I never forget and that is.....the feeling of being there, the experience
Wow!After eight years I know every boulder, pebble and blade of tall grass between SJPdP and SdC by name.
Yes yes yes!My friend JoJo calls it PilgrimBrain - when asked where you stayed the night before you look over your shoulder in an effort to remember.
It's a bit like the Yul Brynner/Steve McQueen scene in the the Magnificent Seven. Brynner is asked where he's come from and jerks a thumb back over his shoulder. Asked where he's headed, he points forwards . . .
love that idea!!This numbing of Camino experiences affects most of us I think. For me, I remember my first Camino as though it was yesterday, instead of in 2013. However, the intervening Caminos are remembered less vividly. It becomes a blur after a year or so.
It is the same way with my five consecutive years working as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office. I recall the first year (2014) vividly. Subsequent years are less distinct. But I do recall singular people and stories.
That is why I take and save lots of photos in chronological format. My iPhone stamps the date, time and place on each photo.
Incidentally, we use this data in the Pilgrim Office to support or counter a pilgrim claim if there is a doubt regarding time or distance walked. You would surprised at the number of folks who do not know that their phones automatically save this data.
iPhones also stamp the GPS coordinates on each photo. I know this for a fact because I used it to drive back to a secluded place on the Camino Invierno last July to retrieve the “heart of stone” near Belesar. Long story... you will have to wait for my book of Camino stories...
The plan is to move all my photos to a digital photo frame and cause them to play in an immense loop of thousands of photos. Eventually, I shall be relegated to living in a care facility. We ALL go that way one day. My plan is to have these photos playing constantly, either on the frame, the largest tablet I can find, or a TV.
Hope this helps the dialog.
Usually about mid way through a Camino walk, I start to forget where I've been and where I am becomes less relevant. It must be the walking. There is only so much detail that you can absorb and so many good experiences, meals, and conversations that it all tends to run together.
I do refer back to my credencial and find a stamp and for some reason when I see the stamp the particular location and events seem to flood back in. Strange the way the mind needs a hook to bring back memories.
I find that statement deeply saddening. Not sure I would wish to receive a Compostela given with some hesitation after such an overt display of suspicion. I think I would probably decline the offer and find some other way of commemorating my journey.Incidentally, we use this data in the Pilgrim Office to support or counter a pilgrim claim if there is a doubt regarding time or distance walked. You would surprised at the number of folks who do not know that their phones automatically save this data.
Really? Oh no no noooooooo.Incidentally, we use this data in the Pilgrim Office to support or counter a pilgrim claim if there is a doubt regarding time or distance walked. You would surprised at the number of folks who do not know that their phones automatically save this data.
Really? Oh no no noooooooo.
Some of us have a leader, in a country not far Spain, whose lasting contribution to the vocabulary of government and administration is the creation of a "hostile environment" as an official policy towards foreigners. I had hoped it would never creep anywhere else.
I know the pilgrim office is a place of love and kindness, and I am truly grateful for the sterling work of yourself and other volunteers. But it makes me sad that such a thing would be contemplated.
Yes I had already read that @Albertagirl and I am happy with that bit, although I worry about the level of scrutiny, even to help someone.@timr
Please read t2andreo's last post above: "if in doubt we will try everything possible to support a claim."
No problem having to remember the words to John Lennon's words in "Imagine" because the lyrics are strung out on series of trash cans after Sarria. It is kind of like a bad Burma Shave dream.I can remember all the words to the Beatles’ songs but have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast.
@timrYes I had already read that @Albertagirl and I am happy with that bit, although I worry about the level of scrutiny, even to help someone.
It is the other bit.
I simply state my opinion that I am very very uncomfortable with contesting a pilgrim's 'claim' by looking at their phone data. If it is the policy of the pilgrim office I must accept it. But I am not happy with it. "Countering a pilgrim claim" is something I find disturbing.
It would make me quite unlikely to collect a compostela in the future.
But it will not stop me walking.
I find that statement deeply saddening. Not sure I would wish to receive a Compostela given with some hesitation after such an overt display of suspicion. I think I would probably decline the offer and find some other way of commemorating my journey.
In a recent post someone said they saw a tour group being awarded with Compostelas at the dining room at San Pinero. When I questioned them and suggested they were distance certificates they responded; no, that they were Compostelas and everyone else in the dining room was equally shocked. I still doubt that kind of thing can happen.As a follow-on thought, you might be surprised (or not) at the level of cheating that occurs especially during the peak summer months. A well-thought out scheme usually slides by. But some of the more outrageous claims are challenged as they ought to be.
Simply cranking out Compostelas to all who ask cheapens the serious efforts made by the overwhelming majority of pilgrims. Denials are not taken lightly. They are only done in the most egregious situations and are always vetted by senior office staff, not volunteers. The paid staff has over the years, seen it all and heard it all.
Personally, I abhor cheating, in all its forms. But, that is just IMHO... One is free to disagree...
As a follow-on thought, you might be surprised (or not) at the level of cheating that occurs especially during the peak summer months. A well-thought out scheme usually slides by. But some of the more outrageous claims are challenged as they ought to be.
How very true this is.You always remember the smell of the rose, never the prick of the thorn.
Thanks @t2andreo this is helpful, and it is where I will draw my discussion to a close. I have no problem really with anarchy. Nor do I have a problem with cheats, nor tax collectors, nor prostitutes, nor sinners. Or, at least, I am moving in the direction of having no problem.I am a Catholic priest. It is an unfashionable thing to be, and many would say an indefensible thing to be.
I read a book recently which included this:
'I once heard a pastor at a conference say that he realized his church had become a safe "club" for a group of like-minded people when he saw parishioners walking around and leaving purses and handbags in the pews. He concluded that if there is no risk that someone might steal your purse in church, then we are not truly welcoming the marginalized.' (James Mallon: Divine Renovation)
Thomas Merton, a contemplative Cistercian monk said: 'Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business. What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy.'
Pope Francis, in his letter Evangelii Gaudium says
46. A Church which “goes forth” is a Church whose doors are open. Going out to others in order to reach the fringes of humanity does not mean rushing out aimlessly into the world. Often it is better simply to slow down, to put aside our eagerness in order to see and listen to others, to stop rushing from one thing to another and to remain with someone who has faltered along the way. At times we have to be like the father of the prodigal son, who always keeps his door open so that when the son returns, he can readily pass through it.
47. The Church is called to be the house of the Father, with doors always wide open. One concrete sign of such openness is that our church doors should always be open, so that if someone, moved by the Spirit, comes there looking for God, he or she will not find a closed door. There are other doors that should not be closed either. Everyone can share in some way in the life of the Church; everyone can be part of the community, nor should the doors of the sacraments be closed for simply any reason. This is especially true of the sacrament which is itself “the door”: baptism. The Eucharist, although it is the fullness of sacramental life, is not a prize for the perfect but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.s These convictions have pastoral consequences that we are called to consider with prudence and boldness. Frequently, we act as arbiters of grace rather than its facilitators. But the Church is not a tollhouse; it is the house of the Father, where there is a place for everyone, with all their problems.
48, If the whole Church takes up this missionary impulse, she has to go forth to everyone without exception. But to whom should she go first? When we read the Gospel we find a clear indication: not so much our friends and wealthy neighbours, but above all the poor and the sick, those who are usually despised and overlooked, “those who cannot repay you” (Lk 14:14). There can be no room for doubt or for explanations which weaken so clear a message. Today and always, “the poor are the privileged recipients of the Gospel”, and the fact that it is freely preached to them is a sign of the kingdom that Jesus came to establish. We have to state, without mincing words, that there is an inseparable bond between our faith and the poor. May we never abandon them.
Somehow, the Pilgrim Office in Santiago is an outreach of the Catholic Church. If it feels the need to exclude the "cheats" I am sorry, but I can have no part in that. And that is painful to me. I retain total respect for those who hold different opinions.
Tim
What he said . . . I sometimes wondered if I was overly concerned with the cheats I encountered at the Pilgrim Office but no longer - nicely put Tom.Father Tim:
Sorry, but as a cradle Catholic, I am compelled to address you in that form, now that you "outed" yourself.But seriously, I cannot find fault in anything you say. It is all morally correct, and in concordance with Church dogma and teaching. I accept all of it, I always have, and always try to act in accordance with it. It is the interpretation and adaptation to real life situations that is sometimes problematic.
What I will offer though, is the observation that we in the Roman Catholic Church are the beneficiaries of a 'corporate' (albeit not-for-profit, per se) hierarchy that was been promulgating both divinely inspired dogma and formal corporate 'rules' for over two thousand years. Mostly, these rules were for the advancement and protection of the Faith, and were generally beneficial to the growth and spread of western civilization.
To be sure, like any huge multinational. and highly diverse organization, over the centuries and millennia we have had our share of scandal, impropriety, corruption, schism, and sometimes simply bone-headed rules. But, and as a general statement, the existence and influence of the Roman Catholic Church and the Papacy has probably been one of the major forces for development of western civilization and western democracies in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I believe this is not opinion, but well-established historical fact.
Without the Church as patron, the Renaissance would likely never have occurred, to pull Western Europe out of the Dark Ages. As an institution, the Church surely is not perfect. But it DID get us this far in societal development. along with moral authority and balance.
This all stipulated and established, the Pilgrim Office at Santiago is indeed an arm of the Cathedral and Archbishopric administration there. In fact, only a few decades ago, a pilgrim completing their pilgrimage would present themselves at the Sacristy, or the small office around the back, on the East wall, to the left of the Holy Door, near the Southeast corner. HAving a separate Pilgrim Office is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Today, that small office is still used for Cathedral administration, and to issue Compostelas on Christmas and New Year's Day. These are the only two days of the year that the Pilgrim Office is closed. One presents themselves at the Sacristy before or after Mass, and is led to that office, where some Compostela related supplies are held.
As the popularity of the Camino increased dramatically over the past 10 - 15 years, the number of routes, places to start, and the variety of individuals undertaking a pilgrimage also increased. The moral complexion of these pilgrims also changed over time, and not always for the better. Just saying... Human nature is diverse by its very nature... It takes all kinds...
Originally, pilgrims were predominantly doing a pilgrimage for religious reasons. These pilgrims were likely more observant and circumspect in their motives, conduct enroute, and compliance with any rules.
In later years, and continuing into the future, we are seeing an increasing percentage of secular pilgrims who are doing this for any number of other than religious reasons. The range of motivation arches from devout religious persons, of virtually any faith to persons doing a walk for sport, a holiday, to repair a bruised psyche, get away from relative, friends, or the law, whatever.
Personally, I have walked alongside Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Shintoists, and any number of Christians. It is remarkable really. I have also walked alongside people clearly trying to avoid notice somewhere by someone, as well as itinerant persons who essential live on the Camino, relying on the charity of others to exist. The diversity of pilgrims and the variety of reasons for walking are as varied as the human race. I believe that is one of the most beautiful aspects of the Camino de Santiago.
Anyway, as the years went by, more and more pilgrims started walking the minimum distance to obtain a Compostela. Indeed and more recently, the number of Forum questions about where actual 100km mojone / distance markers are located has increased. Clearly this interest is from persons seeking to cut every last corner they can, while still remaining in technical compliance.
Some would say this points out the idiocy of having distance rules at all. I counter by saying that society must have rules to establish and maintain order. In this case, the very basic rules are needed to try to maintain some semblance of respect and honor for the arduous journeys of millions upon millions of pilgrims who came before us. For the accomplishment to mean anything to anyone, it must be worthy of the effort made.
If we were to follow the no rules logic, we should have the Compostela downloadable from the internet for self service generation at one's pleasure. Alternatively, how about paid self-service ATM-type Compostela printers on every corner in Santiago?
But seriously, ideas like this have come up, and regularly do arise. Clearly, technology exists to automate some or most of the current process. But, IMHO too much automation also discounts or may cheapen the solemnity and seriousness of the accomplishment. We, at the Pilgrim Office and in the Archbishopric are simply trying to maintain order, tradition and the solemnity of the base effort, which is to walk to Santiago de Compostela for the purpose of venerating the Apostle Saint James relics. That is what we, and the process are there for. We are not in the business of issuing participation certificates.
BTW, and in case you wondered, the OPTIONAL Certificate of Distance was only created and offered for a donation of €3 in 2014. This occurred because the Cathedral Administration informed Pilgrim Office management that they could not afford to pay the salaries of the necessary, increased Pilgrim Office staff. The Cathedral told the Pilgrim Office to find a way to generate funds for pay for salaries and operating expenses. This document or one similar to it had been requested over several years, especially by the loinger distance bicyclists.
So, Pilgrim Office management identified and met the need for the distance certificate, but only as a last resort. The entire Pilgrim Office operates on a non-profit basis and only raises enough funds to support its operations. As the Camino increases in popularity and more pilgrims arrive each year, it is necessary to add staff, equipment and facilities to address this need. Everyone is pulling together to get ready for the coming Holy Year in 2021.
But I digress...
Resuming the theme of cheating and rules... I have personally witnessed bus-load sized, highly organized group cheating on the final 10 km into Santiago, for a group that started all the way to the far distant west, in Sarria... I have seen groups meet at cafes near the Pilgrim Office to rehearse their stories as pre-stamped credencials are handed out to "pilgrims' in perfect make-up hair, and clean or new clothing. The variety of schemes is endless. If we see them, we challenge them.
When volunteering at the Pilgrim Office, one also sees half-hearted attempts by essentially lazy persons to claim their "participation trophy." That is not what 1,200 years of religious tradition and practice exists for. We staff and volunteers do not actively search out Compostela cheats. But, when evidence of a fraud evidences itself during the process, we are compelled to act to enforce the Archbishop's very basic rules. I mentioned them above and will not repeat them here.
The Compostela has existed for about 900 years (IIRC). it was originally written on parchment or linen before paper was widely available. In practice, the hard copy Compostela served as proof that a pilgrim actually made it to Santiago.
A new scallop shell originally served that purpose until unscrupulous vendors began selling them all over, and not only at Santiago. That violation of the original rules for documenting a pilgrimage led to creating the Compostela, as we know it.
Back in the day, a solemn religious pilgrimage to the Apostle Saint's relics at Santiago was also used as an alternative to execution, some corporal punishment, or banishment for any number of crimes. The deal was, make this pilgrimage and return with proof, or never return. My point is that, until the last 10 years or so, pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela was very serious stuff indeed.
About 10 - 12 years ago IIRC, the Cathedral / Archbishop created and imposed minimum distance requirements to define an 'appropriate' distance to travel to be eligible for a Compostela. I was not there, and I do not have first-hand knowledge of this process, or the reasoning that went into it. I am told it was instituted to try to halt was was seen as abuse of the process for Compostela eligibility.
What resulted was a proclamation that a pilgrim on foot had to walk the final 100 km of any prescribed and accepted pilgrimage route into Santiago, and be able to document that activity on a prescribed document (the credencial). The distance for pilgrims using a bicycle was set at 200 km.
Know, we all know that no pilgrim shows up at the Pearly Gates clutching a paper Compostela. Even assuming arguendo, that our faith is correct and we will be seen and admitted by Saint Peter and the angels, one assumes that the Holy Omniscience knows who completed a proper pilgrimage and who cheated. I believe that is what we were taught in our Baltimore Catechisms... at least, that is how I internalized it.
This siad, flooding the market with unearned Compostelas is a gross waste of time and very finite resources. It also detracts from the honest efforts of all legitimate pilgrims.
In this context, I find little difference between this setting of reasonable rules for accomplishing a pilgrimage, and prescribing who can and cannot receive Holy Communion, how Holy Days of Obligation are observed in what counties and in what manner, what doors are used to enter and depart from the Cathedral, and so forth... rules exist for valid reasons. Some rules preserve dogma and teachings, some simply preserve the rule of law and order. Rules are not inherently bad. In fact, they give a framework to Western Civilization and modern societies.
Personally, I hold that the arguably very basic rules for Compostela eligibility, and the means used to try to maintain order and to retain some semblance of tradition, and maintaining the value for that effort is worthwhile. Enforcement is not undertaken blithely or lightly. Also, I believe that the means we use to verify valid claims, or to debunk fraudulent claims are reasonable and consistent with history.
In the past, one could merely present a credencial with chronological stamps. Now, technology permits us to use date, time, and location stamped digital photographs to establish claims where credencials have been lost, stolen or damaged, or where insufficient manual documentation is presented to support the Compostela claim.
When we enforce the rules regarding issuing Compostelas, we are doing no different IMHO than officials do at the cathedral proper to preserve the dignity and solemnity of the Holy Mass.
I hope this explains matters more clearly. And I further hope that if, we disagree, we can agree to disagree...politely.
Anyone who wants to discuss this over a vino tinto can find me at the Pilgrim Office from 6 - 20 May. I will even spot a round...
I hope this clarifies, and aids the dialog.
Unfashionable, maybe. Indefensible, not at all. Quite the contrary, IMO...I am a Catholic priest. It is an unfashionable thing to be, and many would say an indefensible thing to be.
No-one likes fake anything. And cheating is equally distasteful.This said, flooding the market with unearned Compostelas is a gross waste of time and very finite resources. It also detracts from the honest efforts of all legitimate pilgrims.
My plan is to have these photos playing constantly, either on the frame, the largest tablet I can find, or a TV.
I have a headstart on your tablet/TV camino photo plan - my screen saver has at least one hundred photos from my last camino - it is set to start after one minute, so sometimes I just sit and watch my Camino life roll by...and savour the memories several times a day. My computer will come with me to the old folks' home.
On the Shikoku 88 temple pilgrimage the custom is to collect stamps and calligraphy at each of the temples in a special book. Several times I read a warning that as these near completion they become a valuable object which might be stolen and so need to be carefully guarded. That struck me as very odd and quite ironic - especially in a country where petty thefts and similar crimes are so much less common!Fortunately there's no market in Compostelas - and so one person's fraudulent acquisition of a Compostela can never diminish the innate value of a legitimate one.
Mum used to go through the list: Charlie, Mick, Peter, Jeff, Lorraine . . . in the hope we'd respond when she reached the one she wanted.
Unfashionable, maybe. Indefensible, not at all. Quite the contrary, IMO...
No-one likes fake anything. And cheating is equally distasteful.
But cheaters reap their karmic fruit in due course - if you plant an apple seed, you get apple trees...and plenty of apples. If the seed is bad, so inevitably is the fruit. And if the seeds are good the fruit will be, too.
Fortunately there's no market in Compostelas - and so one person's fraudulent acquisition of a Compostela can never diminish the innate value of a legitimate one.
Ditto!..and...awwwww. Gee, thanks, @t2andreo !This said, the Pimentos Padron are on me in May... I look forward to seeing you then.
And...yes...I feel for the staff and volunteers who besr the brunt of this. We who have to stand in line? Well, when I get in that queue, I see it as one last ritual before re-entering everyday life. So who cares how long it takes?
Ditto!..and...awwwww. Gee, thanks, @t2andreo !
🖐
I would like to express my gratitude to Fr Tim and T2andreo for sharing with us their in-depth and very enlightening views on what I think is an important issue. In a strange way I feel it would be improper to to “intrude” on their discussion.
HAH! luv this!...It's a bit like the Yul Brynner/Steve McQueen scene in the the Magnificent Seven. Brynner is asked where he's come from and jerks a thumb back over his shoulder. Asked where he's headed, he points forwards . . .
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